vs Utah

[COUGinNCW]

4 pm on PAC 12 Network

Winnable game for the split. Bonton was trying to do too much himself vs an elite defender in the second half vs Colorado and the lack of depth was really evident. More passing and another good gems by CJ and Cougs will have a shot.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

NCW, gotta agree with all you said. Bonton tried to do too much, but a couple of his teammates were not doing much late in the game. More action away from the ball is needed to go with that increase in passing. And Pollard was hurting pretty badly in the last part of the game; his mobility was really low and his quick cuts completely gone. If he can move better against Utah it will make a difference.

 

[Glad Cougar]

Correct on both Bonton & Pollard. WSU was competitive for 3/4 of the game vs. Colorado but just couldn't keep up physically. That led to ill-advised shots and fed into the downward spiral. The fact that we have never won in SLC makes today's game a big challenge, made even bigger if Pollard can't go or isn't 100%. But I'm encouraged by the tenacity & competitiveness this team has displayed even if the execution isn't always there. It's easy to forget that most of the guys playing right now are underclassmen and being asked to do more than expected due to the injuries. In summary, Cougars have a chance to win today....I don't expect it but it's more possible than it has been in the past several years. Whatever happens, the young guys are getting a lot of incredibly valuable experience.

Glad Cougar

 

[COUGinNCW]

Cougs are 6.5 point dogs which sounds about right. Winnable for sure.

 

[SaveFerris]

Don MacLean's a bit of a fan.

 

[Glad Cougar]

A couple of very questionable offensive foul calls– one was brutal and called on Jervae on what should've been a 3-point play. CJ on the bench early with a two offensive fouls. Cougs shooting well early, but will need Elleby in this game.

Glad Cougar

 

[SaveFerris]

Another late first half when Utah big was clearly in the circle called on Pollard. A bunch of light contact fouls especially whenever it’s on Jones.

We missed shots we need to make. Kunc probably with the best 1st half I have seen from him but some missed 3s in the 2nd he needs to knock down. Also some opportunities for Henson where we simply weren’t looking fo him. We need shots from him when he’s on the floor. That’s obviously what he does the best.

 

[Glad Cougar]

Another big factor was Pollard's health. He couldn't pick up the switch on the ball screen in the second half like he normally does and Jones was able to do whatever he wanted. Only 1 rebound for Jeff, clearly wasn't moving as well as he normally does with the hip injury....but he has to be out there. Nobody else. I have to think if CJ is out there for most of the first half, it's close at the break. He got us back into the game but the double technical hurt the Cougs more than the Utes. First free throw taken by WSU was with less than 5 minutes left in the game. As Smith said after the game, they need to figure out a way to get to the line more often. Didn't seem to be a problem until tonight. Yummy home cookin' by the officials. Gonna be tough to win on the road for this team, but they still work hard.

Glad Cougar

 

[Coug-Vandal]

A lot of questionable calls and the offensive foul calls on Elleby essentially took him out of the Ist half.

 

[jourdand]

Gray haired ref was terrible!!! Why he was talking to CJ on the bench is strange. Not sure why Smith allowed that?

 

[Rich Lewis]

Gray haired ref has been one of the worst refs in the Pac-12 for years. This game more than any other showed we have to get some serviceable bigs. Utah's height killed us.

 

[7ICoug]

Gray haired ref has been one of the worst refs in the Pac-12 for years. This game more than any other showed we have to get some serviceable bigs. Utah's height killed us.

Yep, and yet most of the offers are for 6-6 guards/wings. But suspect we need JUCO's or Grad Transfer(s)

 

[COUGinNCW]

Yep, and yet most of the offers are for 6-6 guards/wings. But suspect we need JUCO's or Grad Transfer(s)

Smith is probably betting on Elleby turning pro.

 

[CougDave]

NBA Draft.Net now has CJ as the 24th pick in the 1st Round of the 2020 draft. Other sites have him high in the 2nd Round. I don't think he will be back.

Also I noticed that TJ Bamba, the 6-5 signee from Denver is averaging 24.8 pts and 8.7 rbs so far this year. He's just about doubled his scoring from last year. Didn't see any shooting numbers for him.

 

[Rich Lewis]

Utah is probably a top 10 team next year or the year after. They only have 2 upper classmen (1 junior, 1 senior), neither of whom play on their roster.

 

[jourdand]

IMO Elleby can make it in the NBA but he will need to be in the right place at the right time to carve out a place for himself. I always say if a player is confident and is being told he’ll go in the first round they should go, just because the money is guaranteed. If he is not going to be a first rounder I would say comeback for another year. Unless school/WSU isn’t your cup of tea.. ala Casto.

 

[etowncoug]

IMO Elleby can make it in the NBA but he will need to be in the right place at the right time to carve out a place for himself. I always say if a player is confident and is being told he’ll go in the first round they should go, just because the money is guaranteed. If he is not going to be a first rounder I would say comeback for another year. Unless school/WSU isn’t your cup of tea.. ala Casto.

Elleby has the perfect body to be a starter in the modern NBA. If he finishes strong, he's a first rounder. Every team is looking for a 6'7 220 lb wing who can defend, pass, handle the ball, and shoot.

 

[jourdand]

I agree he can be a starter in the NBA but he’s imo not a can’t miss player. There are plenty of guys who have had similar or even better college careers that didn’t make the league. He shoots 33% in college not a great shooter more of a great scorer. It’s probably just wishful thinking but I hope he gives us one more year.

 

[etowncoug]

I agree he can be a starter in the NBA but he’s imo not a can’t miss player. There are plenty of guys who have had similar or even better college careers that didn’t make the league. He shoots 33% in college not a great shooter more of a great scorer. It’s probably just wishful thinking but I hope he gives us one more year.

Can't miss NBA players go in the top 3. Heck, Lonzo Ball had plenty of holes in his game when he got picked that high. Everyone else is a project. Klay looked like a good bet to be a three point specialist when he entered the league. His game developed.

Elleby already has the size to take it to the basket at the next level. He can pass. He's got a shot that translates. He has the length and quickness to not be a defensive liability. Lots of those players who have better college careers are closer to their ceilings than CJ. Some team is going to take him and he'll be part of the rotation in year one.

 

[mikalalas]

If CJ leaves after this year, he would either be about a 21 to 29 to last pick of the 1st round pick at best, and a 1 pick to last pick of 2nd round pick at worst.

The Utah game exposed something. A NBA draft pick doesnt ONLY score about Zero in a game.

Klay didnt have that happen to him, and if that had hsppened to him in his JR year, he wouldnt have been a Lottery pick like he was.

While CJ in theory can, couid, maybe will do what your suggesting in getting drafted, and making a NBA team rotation, etc:

1. He can be a Lotto, top 14 of 1st round pick his JR, Senior year.

2. If he does that, he would get a hell of a lot more money then if he left now, went 21 to last pick of 1st round, to last pick of 2nd round, undrafted free agent signed.

3. He would be taking a huge risk, gamble, if he leaves now, after this season.

There have been a lot of simiilar players to CJ who have been in similar situations, who were projected by the experts, insiders, who were told they would go about 21 to last pick of the 1st round to 1st pick of 2nd round, etc, ish, just like CJ, only to have them show up in the Draft Room, and then go undrafted, or go in 2nd round.

4. That could EASILY happen to CJ, and even if it doesnt and he gets drafted last pick of 1st round, he wouldnt picked as high, get as much money if he stays.

5. CJ is smart, he either knows this, or will figure this out after talking to NBA, Smith, Klay, etc.

6. Also the reason why CJ explored entering draft last season, was because of

A. Kent.

B. He wanted to see what the NBA would tell him.

And the reason why he didnt enter draft, is

A. NBA talked him out of it.

B. Smith.

And the reason CJ will probably not enter draft this year is

A. He wont get drafted top 20 in 1st round.

B. The NBA, Klay, Smith will advise him of that.

C. He would probably be a top 14 pick after his Jr or Sr year.

D. NBA, Smith, Klay will tell him that too.

E. CJ is smart and probably listen to that, figure that out.

F. Smith can help CJ to be a Lottery pick if he stays.

G. If CJ stays, there is a good chance CJ would go to a NIT/NCAA tournament in his JR, Sr years, that would help him a top 13 Lottery pick, get a lot more money, etc.

Because of all the above, CJ probably wont enter draft after, at the end of this season, and will probably return for at least his Jr year.

 

[Glad Cougar]

If CJ leaves after this year, he would either be about a 21 to 29 to last pick of the 1st round pick at best, and a 1 pick to last pick of 2nd round pick at worst.

The Utah game exposed something. A NBA draft pick doesnt ONLY score about Zero in a game.

CJ scored 12 points in the Utah game. He had zero in the first half, so maybe that's what you mean. But he also picked up his second foul just a couple of minutes into the game and had to sit on the bench for most of the half.

Glad Cougar

 

[COUGinNCW]

If CJ leaves after this year, he would either be about a 21 to 29 to last pick of the 1st round pick at best, and a 1 pick to last pick of 2nd round pick at worst.

The Utah game exposed something. A NBA draft pick doesnt ONLY score about Zero in a game.

Klay didnt have that happen to him, and if that had hsppened to him in his JR year, he wouldnt have been a Lottery pick like he was.

While CJ in theory can, couid, maybe will do what your suggesting in getting drafted, and making a NBA team rotation, etc:

1. He can be a Lotto, top 14 of 1st round pick his JR, Senior year.

2. If he does that, he would get a hell of a lot more money then if he left now, went 21 to last pick of 1st round, to last pick of 2nd round, undrafted free agent signed.

3. He would be taking a huge risk, gamble, if he leaves now, after this season.

There have been a lot of simiilar players to CJ who have been in similar situations, who were projected by the experts, insiders, who were told they would go about 21 to last pick of the 1st round to 1st pick of 2nd round, etc, ish, just like CJ, only to have them show up in the Draft Room, and then go undrafted, or go in 2nd round.

4. That could EASILY happen to CJ, and even if it doesnt and he gets drafted last pick of 1st round, he wouldnt picked as high, get as much money if he stays.

5. CJ is smart, he either knows this, or will figure this out after talking to NBA, Smith, Klay, etc.

6. Also the reason why CJ explored entering draft last season, was because of

A. Kent.

B. He wanted to see what the NBA would tell him.

And the reason why he didnt enter draft, is

A. NBA talked him out of it.

B. Smith.

And the reason CJ will probably not enter draft this year is

A. He wont get drafted top 20 in 1st round.

B. The NBA, Klay, Smith will advise him of that.

C. He would probably be a top 14 pick after his Jr or Sr year.

D. NBA, Smith, Klay will tell him that too.

E. CJ is smart and probably listen to that, figure that out.

F. Smith can help CJ to be a Lottery pick if he stays.

G. If CJ stays, there is a good chance CJ would go to a NIT/NCAA tournament in his JR, Sr years, that would help him a top 13 Lottery pick, get a lot more money, etc.

Because of all the above, CJ probably wont enter draft after, at the end of this season, and will probably return for at least his Jr year.

The NBA drafts for potential. It's rare to see a Jr or Sr as a lottery pick. His overall game has gotten a lot better this year, especially his D, under Smith. I'm not sure he'd improve a lot if he comes back.

Based on the fact he stayed with his hommies at Cleveland High and didn't transfer to Beach or Garfield like the rest of the top Seattle Hoopers do, I do think he's a loyal kid, but if he's going to get 1st round money he should go.

 

[7ICoug]

Well seems to me that Klay improved a lot from his Sophmore season to his Junior Season and was certainly a lottery pick.

But of course if he is a 1st Rounder you take the money.

 

[jourdand]

There is so much to consider. Something that has not been mentioned is strength of the draft. It is possible if this year is considered a week draft it might be better to come out early vs staying. I agree C.J. has improved his game in a ton of areas and I’m not sure staying another year will see much more improvement. Going to college tournaments could very well be a factor in the decision based on personal goals but the NBA doesn’t put to much stock in team success, it’s all about what the player brings to the table. He is a great college player but a lot of what he does for WSU is marginal NBA wise. Look at all the great college players Gonzaga has had who’s game didn’t translate to NBA success, even our own studs Fontaine, Low, Rochestie, Motum, Lacy...ect. The NBA is the elite of the elite.

 

[etowncoug]

There is so much to consider. Something that has not been mentioned is strength of the draft. It is possible if this year is considered a week draft it might be better to come out early vs staying. I agree C.J. has improved his game in a ton of areas and I’m not sure staying another year will see much more improvement. Going to college tournaments could very well be a factor in the decision based on personal goals but the NBA doesn’t put to much stock in team success, it’s all about what the player brings to the table. He is a great college player but a lot of what he does for WSU is marginal NBA wise. Look at all the great college players Gonzaga has had who’s game didn’t translate to NBA success, even our own studs Fontaine, Low, Rochestie, Motum, Lacy...ect. The NBA is the elite of the elite.

The NBA is a bunch of physical freaks, just like CJ Elleby. That's his differentiator. Elleby was a better NBA prospect than Robo Franks last year, not based on on court production but on physical abilities. Lots of untapped potential.

 

[jourdand]

He doesn’t blow by people he doesn’t elevate over people, he out works and outsmarts them. He has a very high basketball IQ but is defiantly not an elite level athletic player. Which is why he will need to find a nitch to make the league. Defense could be his best way into the NBA most every other category I would say he’s adequate for the league.

 

[SaveFerris]

He doesn’t blow by people he doesn’t elevate over people, he out works and outsmarts them. He has a very high basketball IQ but is defiantly not an elite level athletic player. Which is why he will need to find a nitch to make the league. Defense could be his best way into the NBA most every other category I would say he’s adequate for the league.

Which is why another year or two of college experience might actually help him even if it probably doesn't turn him into a Lottery pick. I don't see something that really separates him from other players but he has the ability to become a player without any holes in his game.

For however long it last I'm glad he's a Coug.