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"We clearly need to create a culture within Athletics that emphasizes compliance and accountability"

ttowncoug

Hall Of Fame
Sep 9, 2001
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quote/smear of the day by our President.

This guy is really starting to wear thin on me. I thought Moss and Marlow did a great job at moving on from the Sterk area. Now, our President continues to find ways to tear the prior regime down to establish his agenda.
 
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Not sure how this relates to CML directly. Or any of the other coaches or staff. He is addressing the paperwork sloppiness and dispensation of seating by the athletic department. This is a problem that sorely needs to be addressed and I am sure that Chun will do so and well. Should not affect adversely CML or anyone else other than the AD office staff. Molehill. A rather sizeable one but a molehill.
 
OH_YEAH_.jpg
 
We're going to lose CML within 2 years. Betcha.

Agree, Schulz isn't going to be measured on how many games athletics wins, he'll be measured on the financial "health" of WSU. He's going to be a budget hawk and depend on his AD to raise the funds for athletics. When that doesn't happen, the hatchet will come out.
 
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Just how deep a financial hole would Moos have had to dig, before you'd say he didn't do a "great job"? Is 65000000 in debt proof of great fiscal management in your opinion?
 
Here's the deal on "debt." We pay the bonds for the stadium off. Then, you pay the "loan" off from WSU over time.

When you get a home mortgage, do you panic and sell all of your furniture because you are in "debt" and want to pay it off tomorrow?

Or do you take comfort that it gets paid off over a long period of time and you are getting equity out of the deal. At WSU the equity is quality athletics and underlying assets that are actually worth something.
 
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7 million a year in facilities debt servicing does not add up to 65 million. That's mismanagement. It's not paying the mortgage (28 million ) and spending more than you earn by 7 millon per year on top of it. Thanks Bill
 
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7 million a year in facilities debt servicing does not add up to 65 million. That's mismanagement. It's not paying the mortgage (28 million ) and spending more than you earn by 7 millon per year on top of it. Thanks Bill

AND add in that the ‘neighbors’ on campus have had their ability to remodel or build their dream homes adversely affected as well.
 
7 million a year in facilities debt servicing does not add up to 65 million. That's mismanagement. It's not paying the mortgage (28 million ) and spending more than you earn by 7 millon per year on top of it. Thanks Bill

Personally, I’m glad that Athletics got a decent piece of the $200+ million in cash reserves.
 
quote/smear of the day by our President.

This guy is really starting to wear thin on me. I thought Moss and Marlow did a great job at moving on from the Sterk area. Now, our President continues to find ways to tear the prior regime down to establish his agenda.
Moos and Marlow did a great job of making believe they were still at UO where spending had no limitations with Uncle Phil in the picture. How come Bill didn't stick around at his alma mater to help pay the piper?

Glad Cougar
 
Personally, I’m glad that Athletics got a decent piece of the $200+ million in cash reserves.
Why? They did not help generate those reserves, and now that they significantly contributed their depletion the academic side (which I’ll remind you is the university’s actual mission) has to suffer.
 
Personally, I’m glad that Athletics got a decent piece of the $200+ million in cash reserves.

Athletics got a bailout from the University? Ultimately, that is what we must have, and from the legislature too. Realistically, Athletics just isn't able to significant pay down this debt with revenues. We don't have any history, whatsoever, of operating in the black, and having reserves, let alone to the level needed to pay down a 65 million debt in a generation. I'm all for, grovel... slap on the wrist, "don't do it again,"... now here's the bailout. With Moos et al gone, politically we are in position for it.
 
Why? They did not help generate those reserves, and now that they significantly contributed their depletion the academic side (which I’ll remind you is the university’s actual mission) has to suffer.

Thanks for the unnecessary reminder about the university’s mission.

The University requires the Athletic Department to serve as the marketing arm of the University. It’s fundamentally unfair to demand Athletics carry that burden for the University as a whole without some form of compensation for it. It’s been long overdue and finally occurred.
 
Athletics got a bailout from the University? Ultimately, that is what we must have, and from the legislature too.

Good point, Socal

Didn't UW request and receive a hand-out from the state taxpayers when school officials decided to touch-up their dilapidated on-campus stadium instead of simply relocating 5 miles south to a first-class NFL facility?

Maybe now is the time for WSU's administration to ask for the exact same dollars?

What's fair is fair.

I'm sure there are some Coug-Friendly legislators who could get this ball rolling.
 
Athletics got a bailout from the University? Ultimately, that is what we must have, and from the legislature too. Realistically, Athletics just isn't able to significant pay down this debt with revenues. We don't have any history, whatsoever, of operating in the black, and having reserves, let alone to the level needed to pay down a 65 million debt in a generation. I'm all for, grovel... slap on the wrist, "don't do it again,"... now here's the bailout. With Moos et al gone, politically we are in position for it.

The Athletic Department is funding the bond payments. Why are you saying otherwise?

Now, obviously, the deficit needs to shrink, but IMO, the University should always be covering some deficit from Athletics. As I’ve written repeatedly on this message board, the University wants Athletics to be the marketing arm of the whole school, “window to the university” and all that. That means the University needs to pay for it.
 
The Athletic Department is funding the bond payments. Why are you saying otherwise?

Now, obviously, the deficit needs to shrink, but IMO, the University should always be covering some deficit from Athletics. As I’ve written repeatedly on this message board, the University wants Athletics to be the marketing arm of the whole school, “window to the university” and all that. That means the University needs to pay for it.

Yes you have written this repeatedly, and it continues to be an incorrect statement. Athletics is the "window" to every university, not just WSU. Athletics has not been given some special marketing/PR mission at WSU. We are just like everybody else. Every university subsidizes Athletics to some extent, overtly and/or covertly. So does WSU. Now, how much should WSU subsidize our Athletics program? Some - we agree on that. I don't have a number or % in mind.

Every university, including WSU, does a ton of PR and marketing - to prospective students, donors, elected officials, the general public, etc. etc. None of which has anything to do with Athletics. For you to act like Athletics is out there recruiting students, soliciting academic donations, pushing legislative agendas, touting our research, or doing any of the other things that our marketing and other people do is just silly. No matter how many times you post it.
 
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Yes you have written this repeatedly, and it continues to be an incorrect statement. Athletics is the "window" to every university, not just WSU. Athletics has not been given some special marketing/PR mission at WSU. We are just like everybody else. Every university subsidizes Athletics to some extent, overtly and/or covertly. So does WSU. Now, how much should WSU subsidize our Athletics program? Some - we agree on that. I don't have a number or % in mind.

Every university, including WSU, does a ton of PR and marketing - to prospective students, donors, elected officials, the general public, etc. etc. None of which has anything to do with Athletics. For you to act like Athletics is out there recruiting students, soliciting academic donations, pushing legislative agendas, touting our research, or doing any of the other things that our marketing and other people do is just silly. No matter how many times you post it.

You may also want to enunciate why the $200 Million in cash reserves is an internet myth, too.

I don't have time today to do a dissertation on the university's Net Position and the differences between Restricted-expendable and Unrestricted amounts. Suffice it to say Floyd/Moos dipped their hands in the cookie jar hard and, at best, exceeded their authority and, at worst, may have compromised designated and restricted funds, leaving the university at risk.

Most likely some tap dancing had to be done with designated donors on why their monies were spent for something other than intended.
 
Every university, including WSU, does a ton of PR and marketing - to prospective students, donors, elected officials, the general public, etc. etc. None of which has anything to do with Athletics.

That "ton of marketing" you speak of does not carry a fraction of the weight of a Pac-12 football championship or a trip to the Rose Bowl.

If Athletics (and Football and Men's Basketball in particular) weren't so vital to a institution of higher learning's profile and visibility, then why do so many College Presidents who aren't the least bit sports-minded sign off on these multi-million $$$ coaching contracts and facility upgrades?

Why does Stanford make David Shaw the highest-paid football coach in the Pac-12?

Or the same for Duke and Coach K in men's basketball?

Because the admiinstrations at two of the most highly regarded universities in the world are well aware they are getting a good bang for their buck with successful programs in high-profile sports.

Simple as that.
 
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Stanford was Stanford long before it became a football power. Same with Duke and basketball - though they've been pretty good back to the Vic Bubas days.

Let's not even go down the path of Harvard and Yale.
 
That "ton of marketing" you speak of does not carry a fraction of the weight of a Pac-12 football championship or a trip to the Rose Bowl.

If Athletics (and Football and Men's Basketball in particular) weren't so vital to a institution of higher learning's profile and visibility, then why do so many College Presidents who aren't the least bit sports-minded sign off on these multi-million $$$ coaching contracts and facility upgrades?

Why does Stanford make David Shaw the highest-paid football coach in the Pac-12?

Or the same for Duke and Coach K in men's basketball?

Because the admiinstrations at two of the most highly regarded universities in the world are well aware they are getting a good bang for their buck with successful programs in high-profile sports.

Simple as that.

Not "a fraction of the weight". If you say so Pete. That's why Bill Gates and Paul Allen have given over $50 million to WSU academics and research and -0- to Athletics. Because nothing at a Tier I research university matters to anyone except Football.

Put another way, you don't what the F you are talking about.
 
That "ton of marketing" you speak of does not carry a fraction of the weight of a Pac-12 football championship or a trip to the Rose Bowl.

If Athletics (and Football and Men's Basketball in particular) weren't so vital to a institution of higher learning's profile and visibility, then why do so many College Presidents who aren't the least bit sports-minded sign off on these multi-million $$$ coaching contracts and facility upgrades?

Why does Stanford make David Shaw the highest-paid football coach in the Pac-12?

Or the same for Duke and Coach K in men's basketball?

Because the admiinstrations at two of the most highly regarded universities in the world are well aware they are getting a good bang for their buck with successful programs in high-profile sports.

Simple as that.
The truth is more than anything is ego. That and Title IX which football has to be the income earner. There is a reckoning coming, and not sure the universities know it. Sure, maybe in the SEC attendance isn't a problem yet, and it may never be. But with this generation and I would imagine the generations beyond the current one the cell phone has taught them they can be part of a story, they want to be part of the action (Facebook for example). Also, they have a way to see the games without attending. Without attending you don't gain that connection. Without the connection you are less likely to donate.

Then there is CTE. All of these factors plus the heavy expenditures they have had is going to have a pretty big affect on college football.
 
The truth is more than anything is ego. That and Title IX which football has to be the income earner. There is a reckoning coming, and not sure the universities know it. Sure, maybe in the SEC attendance isn't a problem yet, and it may never be. But with this generation and I would imagine the generations beyond the current one the cell phone has taught them they can be part of a story, they want to be part of the action (Facebook for example). Also, they have a way to see the games without attending. Without attending you don't gain that connection. Without the connection you are less likely to donate.

Then there is CTE. All of these factors plus the heavy expenditures they have had is going to have a pretty big affect on college football.

Good post, Ed.

Horse Racing and Boxing were once were the most popular sports in America.

Like you say, things change and evolve over time.
 
Not "a fraction of the weight". If you say so Pete. That's why Bill Gates and Paul Allen have given over $50 million to WSU academics and research and -0- to Athletics. Because nothing at a Tier I research university matters to anyone except Football.

Put another way, you don't what the F you are talking about.

Good clarification — it isn't, as you rightly point out, only about sports to many, including some of the richest and most powerful people in the country.

But one thing I don't quite get, Loyal:

Why do you get so angry on this message board to the point of threatening or cursing out people you are unlikely to ever meet in person?

I always thought the point of CougZone/Wazzu Watch as well as Brand X and Brand Y was for Cougar fans from around the globe to discuss and debate topics pertinent to WSU Athletics.

In a fun and friendly manner.
 
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Good clarification — it isn't, as you rightly point out, only about sports to many, including some of the richest and most powerful people in the country.

But one thing I don't quite get, Loyal:

Why do you get so angry on this message board to the point of threatening or cursing out people you are unlikely to ever meet in person?

I always thought the point of CougZone/Wazzu Watch as well as Brand X and Brand Y was for Cougar fans from around the globe to discuss and debate topics pertinent to WSU Athletics.

In a fun and friendly manner.

I am not angry with you, Chop. Annoyed at your silly comments and obvious lack of knowledge, yes.

And I don't threaten or curse out people on this board. With one exception, which is completely justified.
 
You may also want to enunciate why the $200 Million in cash reserves is an internet myth, too.

I don't have time today to do a dissertation on the university's Net Position and the differences between Restricted-expendable and Unrestricted amounts. Suffice it to say Floyd/Moos dipped their hands in the cookie jar hard and, at best, exceeded their authority and, at worst, may have compromised designated and restricted funds, leaving the university at risk.

Most likely some tap dancing is still being done with a lot of donors on why their monies were spent for something other than intended.
Fixed it for you.
 
You may also want to enunciate why the $200 Million in cash reserves is an internet myth, too.

I don't have time today to do a dissertation on the university's Net Position and the differences between Restricted-expendable and Unrestricted amounts. Suffice it to say Floyd/Moos dipped their hands in the cookie jar hard and, at best, exceeded their authority and, at worst, may have compromised designated and restricted funds, leaving the university at risk.

Most likely some tap dancing had to be done with designated donors on why their monies were spent for something other than intended.

Let’s do what they do to thieves in Iran! Chop off their hands!

The $200 million cash reserves is an internet myth. It actually more than that.
 
Yes you have written this repeatedly, and it continues to be an incorrect statement. Athletics is the "window" to every university, not just WSU. Athletics has not been given some special marketing/PR mission at WSU. We are just like everybody else. Every university subsidizes Athletics to some extent, overtly and/or covertly. So does WSU. Now, how much should WSU subsidize our Athletics program? Some - we agree on that. I don't have a number or % in mind.

Every university, including WSU, does a ton of PR and marketing - to prospective students, donors, elected officials, the general public, etc. etc. None of which has anything to do with Athletics. For you to act like Athletics is out there recruiting students, soliciting academic donations, pushing legislative agendas, touting our research, or doing any of the other things that our marketing and other people do is just silly. No matter how many times you post it.

Keep counting the beans and let the managers manage.

How many 3 hour nationally or regionally televised programs with the WSU logo everywhere come from any department other than Athletics?
 
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Keep counting the beans and let the managers manage.

How many 3 hour nationally or regionally televised programs with the WSU logo everywhere come from any department other than Athletics?

Heh - I'll give you that. And I get your point. Spring of 1998, after the 1997 Rose Bowl season, prospective student applications shot way up. Clearly a blip from the RB season. And much needed at the time. Luckily the May riots didn't put too much of a damper on that enthusiasm. I worked with a guy whose Master's thesis was the effect of a winning FB team on enrollment. Conclusion? Yes. So I'm happy to agree to somewhat disagree here. Except that I'm right. :rolleyes:

Whoever made that quote about Athletics being the window to the university (Livengood, maybe, maybe even Slickson) also said that because of that, it needed to be squeaky clean. Thus the much ado about really not all that much that started this thread.

And I resent and don't resemble your snide remark about accountants... :p
 
Keep counting the beans and let the managers manage.

How many 3 hour nationally or regionally televised programs with the WSU logo everywhere come from any department other than Athletics?

But what happens when there are fewer and fewer beans to count and they hemorrhage money. There is only one guy I know who is great with debt, and I am not sure the university can file BK three or four times to clean up the debt.
 
Heh - I'll give you that. And I get your point. Spring of 1998, after the 1997 Rose Bowl season, prospective student applications shot way up. Clearly a blip from the RB season. And much needed at the time. Luckily the May riots didn't put too much of a damper on that enthusiasm. I worked with a guy whose Master's thesis was the effect of a winning FB team on enrollment. Conclusion? Yes. So I'm happy to agree to somewhat disagree here. Except that I'm right. :rolleyes:

Whoever made that quote about Athletics being the window to the university (Livengood, maybe, maybe even Slickson) also said that because of that, it needed to be squeaky clean. Thus the much ado about really not all that much that started this thread.

And I resent and don't resemble your snide remark about accountants... :p
That's because the riots were ridiculously overblown by the local media. By 8:00 the following morning, there was hardly any evidence anything had happened. What's really lucky is that the mismanagement of the whole incident from start to finish by the local law enforcement and legal system didn't put the damper on.
 
That's because the riots were ridiculously overblown by the local media. By 8:00 the following morning, there was hardly any evidence anything had happened. What's really lucky is that the mismanagement of the whole incident from start to finish by the local law enforcement and legal system didn't put the damper on.

OMG you are kidding, right? 20 injured police, one with a broken leg from a manhole cover being thrown at him? Flaming dumpsters rolled down the street? National Guard damn near called in? The police afraid that they were going to have to start firing on the drunken rioters?
 
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OMG you are kidding, right? 20 injured police, one with a broken leg from a manhole cover being thrown at him? Flaming dumpsters rolled down the street? National Guard damn near called in? The police afraid that they were going to have to start firing on the drunken rioters?
All because Bill Doba posted that video on youtube?
 
Maybe 50 people were arrested with about 200 attending the event? They called in about 35-40 officers and basically escalated the situation .I only read about it so i may be wrong. It seems that there were more onlookers than participants.. I heard that the total number of people was maybe 500 and they were going to call in the National Guard.? That was 20 years ago and there were few expulsions and only a few people did jail time as i remember.It was the Greeks who caused the problem in the first place as i remember.
 
Maybe 50 people were arrested with about 200 attending the event? They called in about 35-40 officers and basically escalated the situation .I only read about it so i may be wrong. It seems that there were more onlookers than participants.. I heard that the total number of people was maybe 500 and they were going to call in the National Guard.? That was 20 years ago and there were few expulsions and only a few people did jail time as i remember.It was the Greeks who caused the problem in the first place as i remember.

That's because the riots were ridiculously overblown by the local media. By 8:00 the following morning, there was hardly any evidence anything had happened. What's really lucky is that the mismanagement of the whole incident from start to finish by the local law enforcement and legal system didn't put the damper on.

Links below. The first one is kind of interesting - our riot ranks 18th, ahead of uw and Oregon but behind uw's other riot. I didn't remember there being 2 riots at uw.

I don't want to get all off track with this - but 95's "ridiculously overblown" and "mismanagement" by the cops descriptions are indeed ridiculous. People (mostly cops) got hurt. People could have died. It only ended because daybreak came and the beer ran out and the students went to bed. It was a very big deal at the time.

http://www.complex.com/pop-culture/2013/01/biggest-college-campus-riots-in-history/
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19980504&slug=2748759
https://www.inlander.com/spokane/wsu-students-fight-for-the-right-to-party/Content?oid=8135468
https://timeline.wsu.edu/timeline/riot/
 
Moos and Marlow did a great job of making believe they were still at UO where spending had no limitations with Uncle Phil in the picture. How come Bill didn't stick around at his alma mater to help pay the piper?

Glad Cougar
Because he got one of the largest AD paying jobs in the country.
 
Links below. The first one is kind of interesting - our riot ranks 18th, ahead of uw and Oregon but behind uw's other riot. I didn't remember there being 2 riots at uw.

I don't want to get all off track with this - but 95's "ridiculously overblown" and "mismanagement" by the cops descriptions are indeed ridiculous. People (mostly cops) got hurt. People could have died. It only ended because daybreak came and the beer ran out and the students went to bed. It was a very big deal at the time.

http://www.complex.com/pop-culture/2013/01/biggest-college-campus-riots-in-history/
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19980504&slug=2748759
https://www.inlander.com/spokane/wsu-students-fight-for-the-right-to-party/Content?oid=8135468
https://timeline.wsu.edu/timeline/riot/
There were not 50 arrests. You could count the arrests on the night of on your fingers, and at least part of those were nearby onlookers - not rioters - who "failed to disperse". There were probably 50 who were investigated by the conduct board, and several were sanctioned. Very few were charged and even fewer were convicted. I don't think they got a single felony out of the whole thing.

Statements made to the media in the aftermath, and the resulting stories, inflated the event to something much larger than it was. Some claimed that there were 2,000 people rioting. Pictures never supported that, and the area that it was located makes it even more unlikely. The crowd that rushed the field after the Boise State game was much larger than the "riot". Maybe a couple hundred participants, led by a handful of morons at the core, seems more likely based on the video and still photos that came out after...and there were probably a couple hundred more onlookers who didn't participate. So yes, overblown. Yes, there were injuries, although most of those were minor. Media reports at the time indicate that 18 of 23 responders were treated and released, but subsequent reports have changed the language and now typically say '23 officers were injured'. Technically true, but misleading. Again, overblown.

As for mismanagement, there's really no argument about this. The original incident was at a well-known party house in the heart of greek row...directly across the street from one fraternity, and about halfway between The Coug and what was then Shakers. This house regularly had large parties. At some point, it became a police target. Cops (Pullman, not WSU) would regularly walk by, and whenever someone stepped off the lawn and onto the sidewalk they'd demand ID and write MIP/C or whatever they could justify. It got to the point that the occupants started fencing the yard with tarps whenever they had a party (don't remember if that was pre-riot or post-riot). Anyway, two officers were - according to PPD - called for a pedestrian/vehicle accident at the intersection in front of the house, which apparently didn't happen. According to them, once they got there people at the party started 'pelting them with rocks and beer cans'. I started questioning the story right then, because Pullman isn't known for its abundance of rocks, and this house wasn't xeriscaped in 1998. Anyway, the two cops retreat a few blocks and call for backup.

After that, cops just kept making things worse. They closed the bars and parties, and added a couple hundred more drunk (and now pissed off by the early closure) students to the handful of unrulies already in the street. Then, rather than setting a perimeter and letting the crowd fizzle out on its own, they decided to force them to comply - advancing in formation and launching tear gas. As if that wasn't enough, their path of advance cut off the route home for most of the crowd. And then, their tactics came apart. The group of WSU/Pullman officers ended up driving the crowd right into the County/State group, so the crowd was trapped. Then, somehow the county/state group retreated to the point that they were at the bottom of the hill on Colorado, and the bottom of the hill is hardly ever a good position.

So, let's recap - cops reacted to an incident with a small group in a manner that turned it into a big group. Then they forced a confrontation with the big group, with a simultaneous escalation, and then cornered said group with no way to escape. Yes...mismanaged.

I'm not saying the rioters were in the right, but the incident was poorly managed, and it was (unintentionally) escalated by the police response at virtually every turn. In the 20 years since, it's become the norm to re-tell the story as if it was the LA riots come to Pullman, and it's a miracle nobody was killed. The truth is that it was a couple of hours, some scorched asphalt, and a couple broken windows, and the number of injuries that required even an overnight in the hospital could be counted on your fingers. The articles you linked really don't tell the story, because none of the writers were there. I was. I drove down Colorado Street that morning - just a few hours after the whole affair ended - and there was barely a sign of it. Hardly the riot of the century.
 
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