Where do you want WSU to end up?

[OrangeGravy]

What say you, fellow Coug fans? My preferred destinations are either drop down to FCS where there 8s a true NCAA season and tournament or scrap the whole thing. I have zero desire to participate in and contribute to the FBS system any longer. I could barely get myself to care when we had at least an outside shot at a miracle season that could end in the Rose Bowl. Being in a non-power conference, to me, is worse than being at the FCS level. It's the only place you're guaranteed to have a meaningless postseason, which ultimately leads to a meaningless season.

Don't get me started on Bowl games and how worthless they've been for 20 years.

 

[chugspig]

Think there are plenty of decent options which will involve schools from pac12/MWC/and possibly a few from the big12. KSU, Iowa St, Okie St, WSU, Beavs, Arizonas, SJSU, Nevada, Utah, Utah St. etc

 

[12375CAT]

If you look @ all the possible scenarios, a complete merger between the P12(10) & the B12 has to be the best alternative for W-State.
Agree?

 

[triscuit one]

No. I don't think the SEC and Big 10 are done. Maybe they are for this year, but I see them adding another 2-4 team each in the next 3-5 years. I don't see this merger generating enough money for it member to keep the wolves away. A large conference spread coast to coast with no "flagship" program can not be sustained. Might be better to keep it regional and see how this superconference thing shakes out in 5+ years.

 

[mikalalas]

As sucky as what's happening is, there is, are silver lining options.

1. Big 12 and Pac 12 combine with or without Oregon, UW, Stanford.

2. Pac 12 loses Oregon, UW, Colorado, Utah, Stanford to Big 12, and gets Ok State, Kansas, KSU, ISU, Texas Tech, and takes BSU, UNLV, Air force from Mountain West, and adds SDSU, SJSU, Fresno St, SMU, or some other semi similar variation of this scenario.

3. Pac 12 has WSU, OSU, Cal, ASU, that stay, and add ISU, or 1 or 2 different cast off Big 12 teams, like maybe Texas Tech, etc, add UNLV, BSU, Air force, SDSU, SJSU, Fresno St, Gonzaga, SMU, Colorado St, New Mexico, New Mexico St.

4. The entire MWC, joins the Pac 12, that has WSU, OSU, Cal.

5. WSU, OSU, Cal joins the MWC.

What all of these scenarios have in common, and why silver lining is.

A. In all the scenarios except where Pac 12 dissolved, the Rosebowl might still take the new Pac 12's Champion, vs Big 10 winner, at least temporarily. WSU would have a much easier time going to the Rosebowl.

B. The winner of the new Pac 12/new conference, etc, might get a auto bid to the playoffs, and might even get 1 at large bid to playoffs.

C. WSU, OSU, Cal, etc, might become the new USC types of the new conference, AKA BIG FISH.

D. Some awesome, pretty good Basketball schools like Gonzaga, UNLV, SMU, New Mexico St, SDSU, might probably join conference.

E. While football might get shot down, basketball wise the new conference realignment could end up being a BIG EAST, ATLANTIC 10 type, semi awesome, still pretty good Basketball conference,

F. WSU, OSU might probably semi flourish. While football might still languish, Kyle Smith might probably still stay, might probably still continue to recruit, do well, even to the point where WSU might become a semi Gonzaga type, basketball wise.

G. There are still some silver lining possibilities, if WSU, OSU, Cal, maybe ASU, Pac 12, etc, play their cards right, are agressive enough etc.

Is this as good as how things were. Probably No, but then again, it might end up being better for WSU in long run, but for now either may semi suck, and at least is not as good as how things were.

The thing that semi concerns me is that WSU has a history of Blown opportunities, and not only semi consistently snatching defeat from the jaws of Victory, in big opportunity games, but having past WSU presidents, AD's, coaches, fans, everything that makes WSU, WSU, blow things, not make consistently good hires of AD's, Presidents, Coaches, not make good moves, not take advantage of opportunities, not have fans, boosters donate, fund raise, attend games, etc.

So even if WSU might have some silver lining, golden opportunities, I am concerned WSU will AGAIN FAIL to take advantage of those silver lining, golden opportunities, and FAIL to be proactive, agressive, make the right moves, FAIL to take advantage of opportunities, YET AGAIN.

I am also concerned something bad will happen to WSU in this kind of situation, like half the football team leaving, half the basketball team leaving, coaches leaving, fans stop donating, fans stop attending games, etc.

OSU, Cal, ASU, etc, will probably make the most out of, adapt to this, etc.

But WSU will probably find a way to FAIL, BLOW IT ALL, AGAIN, etc.

I'm probably to cynical, paranoid about WSU

 

[Flatlandcoug]

If you look @ all the possible scenarios, a complete merger between the P12(10) & the B12 has to be the best alternative for W-State.
Agree?

If the Big 12 had not added BYU, Cincinnati, Houston and UCF, it would be almost a no-brainer for the two to merge. The Pac-12 has a long history of avoiding BYU because of their religious views and refusal to play games on Sundays. With those teams in the mix and a bloated 22 team lineup, it's a lot tougher sell. If the conference(s) decided to invite San Diego State and another MWC school into the mix to get to 24, we'd basically have two 12 team divisions or four 6 team quads to work with. Play all five teams in your quad, two from each of the other quads and one OOC game per year. Kind of an unwieldy mess, but maybe workable, if unlikely. I do not envision a scenario where the Pac-12 can poach teams from the Big 12.

Sadly for the Pac-12, I see UW and Oregon bolting to the B1G sooner than later. For the Big 12, I could see KU and Iowa State going that way to make the B1G into a 20 team behemoth. I could also see the Big 12 going after Utah, CU and the Arizona schools to get to 16 teams and effectively killing off the Pac-12.

Stanford and Cal may be content to not fight the inevitable and don't appear well positioned to escape the bloodbath. Harvard and Yale used to be premier football and basketball programs and you can see where they are. The best case for the Pac-12 at this point is to act quickly before anyone else leaves and pull in the best six options from the MWC. SDSU is a no brainer because of the SoCal market. UNLV gets a shot because of the 2 million people in Las Vegas. Boise State will have its fans even if I'm not one. Utah State has had recent success. Fresno State wouldn't be terrible. Air Force and Wyoming are less desirable options because of demographics but either one would be ok. The rest of the MWC schools have never had a compelling reason to be involved.

The most likely end result of all of this is that WSU, OSU, Stanford and Cal end up in the MWC. UW, UO, USC and UCLA are in the B1G. UA, ASU. CU and Utah are in the Big 12.

Truthfully, the four Pac-12 stragglers ending up in the MWC will not be the end of the world. I would guess the following split:

West:
Cal
Fresno State
Hawaii
OSU
SDSU
Stanford
UNLV
WSU

Mountain:
Air Force
Boise State
CSU
Nevada
New Mexico
San Jose State
Utah State
Wyoming

That's not a conference that gets a lot of TV revenue, but it would be a lot of entertaining games to watch. You'd have an excuse to fly to Hawaii every other year...

 

[425cougfan]

What say you, fellow Coug fans? My preferred destinations are either drop down to FCS where there 8s a true NCAA season and tournament or scrap the whole thing. I have zero desire to participate in and contribute to the FBS system any longer. I could barely get myself to care when we had at least an outside shot at a miracle season that could end in the Rose Bowl. Being in a non-power conference, to me, is worse than being at the FCS level. It's the only place you're guaranteed to have a meaningless postseason, which ultimately leads to a meaningless season.

Don't get me started on Bowl games and how worthless they've been for 20 years.

I understand that thought and have shared it myself here and there, even before all this, as I have watched the straws continue to pile up on WSU's proverbial back. That said, while the FCS has a "tournament," I think this view mainly comes from frustration with all of the garbage over the past few years, and both underaccounts for the virtues of G of 5-level ball and overstates the virtues of FCS and its tournament structure.

Yes, it is great to have a chance to win a national championship, but nobody cares even about the very best teams. How many titles has NDSU won in the past decade ... something like 6 out of 10, right? Yet nobody gives a damn and FCS teams, even good ones, play in front of crowds more like a few thousand people. It is putting us in the mix with Eastern and schools of that ilk, whereas WSU, leaving the PCC and Pac-x history aside, at minimum is more of a peer to some of the better Mountain West schools and some of the lower-end P5s who won't have a seat at the table.

I understand the point about even before all of this, we had to hope for some kind of prayer to even be relevant nationally, and that it would be virtually impossible in a G of 5 successor or whatever else is outside of the superconferences. That is why, though, I still hope that if the worst (FBS-level) result happens and we wind up in the Mountain West, even that could lead to some good rivalries and meaningful games against schools like Boise, and the talent level would be high enough to have a shot at UW on occasion. Often? No. But really, is it that different from what we've seen in the past 30 years anyway?

Or, at least, all of this is what I am telling myself as we go through this. I still am holding out some hope we can wind up in some kind of conference outside the SEC and Big Ten that, while not a real rival to them, at least feeds into a tournament. Will WSU ever go into that tournament and beat Ohio State or Bama? Of course not. But that wasn't happening anyway.

 

[Glad Cougar]

If the Big 12 had not added BYU, Cincinnati, Houston and UCF, it would be almost a no-brainer for the two to merge. The Pac-12 has a long history of avoiding BYU because of their religious views and refusal to play games on Sundays. With those teams in the mix and a bloated 22 team lineup, it's a lot tougher sell. If the conference(s) decided to invite San Diego State and another MWC school into the mix to get to 24, we'd basically have two 12 team divisions or four 6 team quads to work with. Play all five teams in your quad, two from each of the other quads and one OOC game per year. Kind of an unwieldy mess, but maybe workable, if unlikely. I do not envision a scenario where the Pac-12 can poach teams from the Big 12.

Sadly for the Pac-12, I see UW and Oregon bolting to the B1G sooner than later. For the Big 12, I could see KU and Iowa State going that way to make the B1G into a 20 team behemoth. I could also see the Big 12 going after Utah, CU and the Arizona schools to get to 16 teams and effectively killing off the Pac-12.

Stanford and Cal may be content to not fight the inevitable and don't appear well positioned to escape the bloodbath. Harvard and Yale used to be premier football and basketball programs and you can see where they are. The best case for the Pac-12 at this point is to act quickly before anyone else leaves and pull in the best six options from the MWC. SDSU is a no brainer because of the SoCal market. UNLV gets a shot because of the 2 million people in Las Vegas. Boise State will have its fans even if I'm not one. Utah State has had recent success. Fresno State wouldn't be terrible. Air Force and Wyoming are less desirable options because of demographics but either one would be ok. The rest of the MWC schools have never had a compelling reason to be involved.

The most likely end result of all of this is that WSU, OSU, Stanford and Cal end up in the MWC. UW, UO, USC and UCLA are in the B1G. UA, ASU. CU and Utah are in the Big 12.

Truthfully, the four Pac-12 stragglers ending up in the MWC will not be the end of the world. I would guess the following split:

West:
Cal
Fresno State
Hawaii
OSU
SDSU
Stanford
UNLV
WSU

Mountain:
Air Force
Boise State
CSU
Nevada
New Mexico
San Jose State
Utah State
Wyoming

That's not a conference that gets a lot of TV revenue, but it would be a lot of entertaining games to watch. You'd have an excuse to fly to Hawaii every other year...

Well thought out, Flat. I appreciate the time you put into this. But boy, is that ever a lopsided conference. You certainly would want to have the two teams with the best records playing for the conference championship rather than division winners. Even then, the 5 best teams in the conference might be in the same division. Also, I know football gets the major consideration in all this, but I can't imagine OSU's baseball program– one of the nation's best– would be too happy with a conference like that. Several of those schools don't even have a baseball program. Stanford is in the same boat with baseball and probably would want something better for their women's basketball program. Sure is "interesting" times.

 

[CougPatrol]

I have some business connections who are Stanford grads, so I've been following their chatter on this situation. It's interesting to me that they don't want, nor do they think that Stanford will join the B10 or B12 "super" conferences. Totally different mindset from most D1 programs, as they still hold their academic standards above football achievement.

If that's true, and Stanford (and Cal) don't join, it's going to suck for UW and Oregon. Yea, it'll suck less for them than it will for us, because they'll bask in the revenue glow; but without any geographical rivals, it's just not going to be the same experience.

 

[425cougfan]

I have some business connections who are Stanford grads, so I've been following their chatter on this situation. It's interesting to me that they don't want, nor do they think that Stanford will join the B10 or B12 "super" conferences. Totally different mindset from most D1 programs, as they still hold their academic standards above football achievement.

If that's true, and Stanford (and Cal) don't join, it's going to suck for UW and Oregon. Yea, it'll suck less for them than it will for us, because they'll bask in the revenue glow; but without any geographical rivals, it's just not going to be the same experience.

Interesting re Stanford and I am not surprised at all. I work with some Stanford folks who feel similarly, and I recall comments from its president last year to the effect that Stanford didn't want to get sucked into an arms race and was going to put academics and other aspects of its mission first. That's good news for WSU and Oregon State in all of this.

As for your point re UW, though, especially if Oregon goes wherever it goes (and doubly so if it's the Big Ten), I don't think UW's fans care much about continuing to play Stanford or Cal or other geographical rivals other than Oregon or USC. My read of the UW mindset is that there could be nothing better than being "nationally relevant" and being associated with the LA schools and Oregon, befitting what is, in their minds, UW's place as a top national program. Especially if they keep playing the LA schools and Oregon, I don't think the factor you described will be much of an issue for them at all. In fact, I think they'll really enjoy that status, based on years of interacting with those guys.

 

[CougPatrol]

UW fans might not care initially about the absence of regional rivals, but it will absolutely diminish the fun factor with the program. The alumni won't like it nearly as much, as travel to road games isn't as fun when you're heading to Iowa, Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin, and Minnesota.

 

[PeteTheChop]

Oklahoma State has talked about dropping its football series with Oklahoma once the Sooners are gone to the SEC.

Will be interesting to see if WSU and Oregon State try a similar tactic with their in-state rivals if the schools end up in difference conferences.

Could be a way to hold these schools accountable for their pursuit of the almighty dollar even when that pursuit is damaging to their own states.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

I understand that thought and have shared it myself here and there, even before all this, as I have watched the straws continue to pile up on WSU's proverbial back. That said, while the FCS has a "tournament," I think this view mainly comes from frustration with all of the garbage over the past few years, and both underaccounts for the virtues of G of 5-level ball and overstates the virtues of FCS and its tournament structure.

Yes, it is great to have a chance to win a national championship, but nobody cares even about the very best teams. How many titles has NDSU won in the past decade ... something like 6 out of 10, right? Yet nobody gives a damn and FCS teams, even good ones, play in front of crowds more like a few thousand people. It is putting us in the mix with Eastern and schools of that ilk, whereas WSU, leaving the PCC and Pac-x history aside, at minimum is more of a peer to some of the better Mountain West schools and some of the lower-end P5s who won't have a seat at the table.

I understand the point about even before all of this, we had to hope for some kind of prayer to even be relevant nationally, and that it would be virtually impossible in a G of 5 successor or whatever else is outside of the superconferences. That is why, though, I still hope that if the worst (FBS-level) result happens and we wind up in the Mountain West, even that could lead to some good rivalries and meaningful games against schools like Boise, and the talent level would be high enough to have a shot at UW on occasion. Often? No. But really, is it that different from what we've seen in the past 30 years anyway?

Or, at least, all of this is what I am telling myself as we go through this. I still am holding out some hope we can wind up in some kind of conference outside the SEC and Big Ten that, while not a real rival to them, at least feeds into a tournament. Will WSU ever go into that tournament and beat Ohio State or Bama? Of course not. But that wasn't happening anyway.

You could make the argument that the California schools should be in the opposite division from WSU, but I guarantee that OSU and WSU would rather that relationship remain intact and keep the trips to the Bay area happening.

 

[95coug]

News now is that UO and UW reached out to the Big 10 and were told “no thanks.”

 

[kougkurt]

Cal and Stanford will both be in a Super conference. The Bay Area market is just to big to leave them out.

 

[95coug]

Cal and Stanford will both be in a Super conference. The Bay Area market is just to big to leave them out.

Cal doesn’t get in on their own. Maybe if Stanford wants them as a package deal, but I’m not sure anyone wants Stanford bad enough to let them dictate terms.

 

[kougkurt]

Cal doesn’t get in on their own. Maybe if Stanford wants them as a package deal, but I’m not sure anyone wants Stanford bad enough to let them dictate terms.

The Bay Area will be a package deal. Stanfords academic prowess will land them both in the Big 10 IMO

 

[froropmkr72]

News now is that UO and UW reached out to the Big 10 and were told “no thanks.”

Just for now.