Why so much gloom and doom re: Apple Cup 2018

[PeteTheChop]

It's only May, after all.

WSU has a very realistic chance of being a consensus preseason Top 25 team, perhaps slipping into the 16-20 range in some rankings.

Yet it seems like nearly every prediction here at CougZone — even by folks forecasting an 8-4 or better regular season – suggests WSU will lose the Apple Cup.

A few posters even predict a lopsided defeat.

But isn't that unnecessarily pessimistic?

The Cougs have won 5 of the past 14 Apple Cups — not dominant, but, all things considered, not terrible either (It's actually better than the historical average in the series).

Three of the most recent victories were in the friendly confines of Martin Stadium, where the AC returns in late November.

Mike Leach is a future Hall of Famer.

After the last games against UW, maybe CML has something new in store to turn around the rivalry.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

It's only May, after all.

WSU has a very realistic chance of being a consensus preseason Top 25 team, perhaps slipping into the 16-20 range in some rankings.

Yet it seems like nearly every prediction here at CougZone — even by folks forecasting an 8-4 or better regular season – suggests WSU will lose the Apple Cup.

A few posters even predict a lopsided defeat.

But isn't that unnecessarily pessimistic?

The Cougs have won 5 of the past 14 Apple Cups — not dominant, but, all things considered, not terrible either (It's actually better than the historical average in the series).

Three of the most recent victories were in the friendly confines of Martin Stadium, where the AC returns in late November.

Mike Leach is a future Hall of Famer.

After the last games against UW, maybe CML has something new in store to turn around the rivalry.

Consensus Preseason Top 25? No offense, but I'll be surprised if we are in the Top 30 of any single poll.

 

[79COUG]

It's only May, after all.

WSU has a very realistic chance of being a consensus preseason Top 25 team, perhaps slipping into the 16-20 range in some rankings.

Yet it seems like nearly every prediction here at CougZone — even by folks forecasting an 8-4 or better regular season – suggests WSU will lose the Apple Cup.

A few posters even predict a lopsided defeat.

But isn't that unnecessarily pessimistic?

The Cougs have won 5 of the past 14 Apple Cups — not dominant, but, all things considered, not terrible either (It's actually better than the historical average in the series).

Three of the most recent victories were in the friendly confines of Martin Stadium, where the AC returns in late November.

Mike Leach is a future Hall of Famer.

After the last games against UW, maybe CML has something new in store to turn around the rivalry.

Because Pete, the last two AC's in Pullman we have lost 31-13 and 45-17. Pullman as of late has no bearing on how the Cougs perform. None. Because we have many question marks across the board and the leghumpers have damn few. Now back in the day, those things would add up to a perfect formula for us to pull off the upset and send them and their ass-bag fans home with their tails between their legs.
Unfortunately, CML insists on treating that game "like just another game". We have not even come close to matching their preparation or intensity as of late...and I just don't see that changing any time soon.
Sure wish I was wrong but I know I'm not.

 

[PeteTheChop]

Consensus Preseason Top 25? No offense, but I'll be surprised if we are in the Top 30 of any single poll.

Looks like I spoke too soon on this one (and I can see my wife rolling her eyes and shaking her head were she looking over my shoulder).

Thanks Flatland.

I did do a little quick research.

Bill Connelly from SB Nation has the Cougs at No. 41 in his preseason S&P rankings for '18.

Athlon's slots WSU at No. 55.

Didn't find Lindy's or Rivals.com among the more noteworthy listings everyone recognizes.

I still think this is an 8-4 team headed to a "traditional" bowl game.

Those kinds of ballclubs have a shot at a victory just about every Saturday with a good break or two.

 

[Cougzz]

I have no interest in pre season polls and a lot of interest in post season polls. The Cougs joined the PAC-8 in 1968. They have finished in the AP top 25 only eight times since becoming part of the PAC. In a rebuilding year I am hoping our guys can at least end the season with a win in the Las Vegas Bowl and perhaps make the AP category of “others receiving votes”. As a fanatical but semi-rational fan I have high hopes for 2019.

 

[CrimsonDisciple]

The Purple Ass sniffers will need to have some bad luck as we have had 2 of the last 3 cups. We’ll need them to be at less than full strength, while us at full strength. Gaskin blows a knee cap, lose a couple lineman, Browning goes down...... Yeah, bout time we get something going our way..... we can win. It’s a long season.

 

[Loyal Coug]

Because Pete, the last two AC's in Pullman we have lost 31-13 and 45-17. Pullman as of late has no bearing on how the Cougs perform. None. Because we have many question marks across the board and the leghumpers have damn few. Now back in the day, those things would add up to a perfect formula for us to pull off the upset and send them and their ass-bag fans home with their tails between their legs.
Unfortunately, CML insists on treating that game "like just another game". We have not even come close to matching their preparation or intensity as of late...and I just don't see that changing any time soon.
Sure wish I was wrong but I know I'm not.

The mutts are better than us - they know it and so do we. Not a good combo.

Yes it is disheartening that Martin Stadium has become a biennial fun pilgrimage for mutts.

I am pretty sure that CML wants to win this game more than others. But he is an "every game is important" guy. He is not a cheerleader coach. He's not wired that way. And should he need to be? Where are the 9 (10) assistants? They can get jazzed. Claes is clearly not a rah rah guy, but other coaches can be.

And how much cheerleading do the players need? How many stories have we read over the years from players about the intensity of this game and what it means? "You are born, you beat the huskies, and you die." Or something like that. Everybody on campus and in the state who gives a damn about football hypes this game all week and frankly all year. Ya think the players take it as just another game?

Player X: "Gee I didn't think Apple Cup was any big deal, certainly no one wrote, said or broadcast anything about it, and CML didn't do a good enough job firing me up so I whimpered out there and got my butt kicked". It's your fault coach!

 

[avabob1]

A lot of earlier wins against UW were upsets where they clearly did not take us seriously enough. More recently our own overall success has helped to insure that they didnt overlook us. Combine that with them having very good teams the last few years, and us not having a healthy QB in several ACs. Tou get lop sided games.

 

[BraindeadCoug]

1. The UW practices for 10 minutes everyday against the air raid offense.
2. The UW coaches come up with a game plan to emphasize their strengths and attack WSU’s week points. For example, the UW put one lineman outside Dillard, #50 over the WSU right guard and one lineman outside Madison basically leaving Cody no one to block all day. Their 3 could beat our 4 lineman other than Cody so they drop 8 into the first 12 yards off the line of scrimmage eliminating Luke’s strong suit of the short to intermediate passing game.
3. The UW coaches get their kids fired up to play a rivalry game. WSU’s approach under Leach is its just another game and do your job.
4. UW has had more NFL caliber players the last 5 years and those players make the plays you need to win big games.

 

[79COUG]

1. The UW practices for 10 minutes everyday against the air raid offense.
2. The UW coaches come up with a game plan to emphasize their strengths and attack WSU’s week points. For example, the UW put one lineman outside Dillard, #50 over the WSU right guard and one lineman outside Madison basically leaving Cody no one to block all day. Their 3 could beat our 4 lineman other than Cody so they drop 8 into the first 12 yards off the line of scrimmage eliminating Luke’s strong suit of the short to intermediate passing game.
3. The UW coaches get their kids fired up to play a rivalry game. WSU’s approach under Leach is its just another game and do your job.
4. UW has had more NFL caliber players the last 5 years and those players make the plays you need to win big games.

And I've yet to see where our coaching staff has realized and taken note of the points you've outlined above.

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

1. The UW practices for 10 minutes everyday against the air raid offense.
2. The UW coaches come up with a game plan to emphasize their strengths and attack WSU’s week points. For example, the UW put one lineman outside Dillard, #50 over the WSU right guard and one lineman outside Madison basically leaving Cody no one to block all day. Their 3 could beat our 4 lineman other than Cody so they drop 8 into the first 12 yards off the line of scrimmage eliminating Luke’s strong suit of the short to intermediate passing game.
3. The UW coaches get their kids fired up to play a rivalry game. WSU’s approach under Leach is its just another game and do your job.
4. UW has had more NFL caliber players the last 5 years and those players make the plays you need to win big games.

And our coaches don't know how to counter this? Amazing.

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

1. The UW practices for 10 minutes everyday against the air raid offense.
2. The UW coaches come up with a game plan to emphasize their strengths and attack WSU’s week points. For example, the UW put one lineman outside Dillard, #50 over the WSU right guard and one lineman outside Madison basically leaving Cody no one to block all day. Their 3 could beat our 4 lineman other than Cody so they drop 8 into the first 12 yards off the line of scrimmage eliminating Luke’s strong suit of the short to intermediate passing game.
3. The UW coaches get their kids fired up to play a rivalry game. WSU’s approach under Leach is its just another game and do your job.
4. UW has had more NFL caliber players the last 5 years and those players make the plays you need to win big games.

Leach's rival team is Utah. He has passion to beat them (recall his public excoriation of his oline when they destroyed us in SLC a few years back) is obvious. He is a BYU alum. BYU hates Utah and vice versa. It is immaterial that Leach is from Wyoming. UW is just another game.

I don't see us beating UW as long as it is a Leach vs Pete matchup.

 

[ElComanche]

I believe that a new O line coach will be of great help.The previous coach knew precious little about O line play and basically just lined them up and said block.I still believe that there will be better QB play once a starter is announced and gets a couple of games under his belt.Hopefully the D coach will be able to make a big difference in their overall play.

 

[Cougatron]

We are at a rare time in Apple Cup history where the Huskies are actually a really good program just as we becoming a threat.

Leach beat Sark with a bare-bones team, he would have crushed Willingham and Neuheisel. But Peterson is a good coach. He was one of the best coaches in the western area for a long time, and UW has always had the money and facilities and location to be good. They just always were incompetent in their hiring, They, unfortunately, wisened up and they are successful.

For us we have a much much harder hill to climb. Don't have the money, don't have the natural recruiting areas, are in a remote area. Those are tremendous obstacles to overcome, but Leach has done that and has got us to the point where we can beat teams that have had the advantage.

So what is it going to take for us to get over the Apple Cup hump to beat the huskies with Peterson at the helm?

Consistent program building over time improving our recruiting and getting better and better players to narrow the talent gap.
A healthy full deep roster of Senior/Junior upperclass maturity of those players forming a cohesive group.

We haven't quite hit that stage yet but are building towards that step. When you look at where we are over the past six seasons you see bursts but not the whole package all together all at once. Guys graduate and we keep moving forward but every year we always take a step back looking for the pieces to all come together.

For example:

A team of

Healthy playing his best Luke Falk (or even Halliday as a mature Senior)

Senior - Cole Madison
Senior - Joe Dahl
Senior - Mauigoa
Senior - Riley Sorenson
Senior - Andre Dillard

Gabe Marks / Tavares Martin (no funny business mature focused/ or Even Marquitter if he wasn't an idiot)
Dom Williams / Tay Martin
Vince Mayle (full 4 year playing not JUCO transfer) / Dez Patmon
River Cracraft / Kyle Sweet

Jamal Morrow
James Williams

Destiny Vaeo, Barber, Hercules, Cooper, Ekuale, Travis Long (all seniors all healthy)

Frankie Luvu, Pelleur, Woods, Tago (All healthy all seniors)

Luani (no Juco transfer full 4 years senior / Deone Buchanon) as Safeties with Jalen Thompson and Robert Taylor (Senior no transfer)

With Molton and of Course the greatest Coug DB ever of all time Pippins / Sean Harper (Senior no transfer)

All coached by Grinch etc.

Do we beat the huskies/Peterson if they run into that all healthy all mature seniors? Yeah. We beat them, but we haven't had a team / season come together of that caliber yet, and that's what it will take.

Are these the best cougs of all time? No. But they are the best cougs that have passed through the past 6 years but they all have to be with each other playing together all healthy when we face the Huskies.

Because that's the level they are operating at every season right now because of the talent/money gap. We have had the pieces to beat them, but not them coming together at the same time.

Now how far away are we from getting to that point now? Not THAT far, but I really do think the class of Borghi, Fischer, Cooper are the nucleus of that emerging moment. I see a lot of talent like Tay Martin emerging, guys like Woods, etc. that are the start of a new phase coming together.

Everyone wants it to come together immediately, but I will say it again to people. We were REALLY behind in the talent depth arena at the beginning of the Leach era and Peterson walked into a stocked fridge and could build on that.

We have some great ingredients, but not a full fridge, and if we want to beat the Huskies we must have a fully stocked fridge too.

 

[Glad Cougar]

It's only May, after all.

The Cougs have won 5 of the past 14 Apple Cups — not dominant, but, all things considered, not terrible either (It's actually better than the historical average in the series).

It all depends on how you want to cherry pick the results. 3 of those 5 wins you cite came under Bill Doba. That seems like a lifetime ago. Wulff and Leach are a combined 2-8 (each with a victory )with the last 4 being blowouts. I think that's terrible, especially considering the quality of team we've had the past couple of years. Anything can happen in a given season, but I certainly wouldn't bet on our beloved Cougars to win the Apple Cup at this time.

Glad Cougar

 

[cr8zyncalif]

When two good teams play it usually comes down to mis-matches (if there are any significant ones) and mistakes. Occasionally someone will make an exceptional play, and that can also have a bearing. Beyond that it is often luck.

Last year UW was able to put Vea on people who could not stop him. That meant in effect that they could go with a 3 man rush for most of the game. We don't do well against 8 men in coverage. Vea was the mis-match of the game and was clearly their biggest loss from this year's team. While they will have a very good D this year, it will not be as good as it was with Vea. We will be in a somewhat similar position without Herc when facing passing teams and speed teams that try to go wide. Herc was not as big an asset (though he was good) when we faced a rushing team with a good O line. Net result, I expect the UW D will be a little less than last year. Where we are on D depends upon how our front 4 comes together, because at least on paper you could say that we look better at LB and DB.

The AC and Bowl made it pretty clear that a mobile QB adds a lot to our game. Those games also made it clear that we have to have outside WR's who have speed and we have to be able to either run or shovel pass (or more likely, some mix of both) well enough to make it risky to rush 3 and drop 8. We also need to be physical enough on the line to force the other team to choose to use their stronger guys rather than their faster guys (when that sort of choice exists for them). Too often the other team pulls out their "speed D" players for our game, since they are not concerned about being pushed around in the trenches.

I will throw out another wish list item, besides a mobile QB. An inside WR who could double as a TE in specific situations would be very handy to have. Probably only play a TE 4-6 plays per game, but if an IR could do it, then the other team would never know when we might move into it just prior to the snap. Sort of an offensive equivalent to when our D line would shift last year. And yet another reason for the other team not to sell out completely to their fastest front 7 at the expense of beef.

I suspect that we will have some momentum going into next year's AC. I base that on two assumptions: we will have a competent QB and our D line will be a lot better than we assumed prior to spring ball. I'm looking at 8 wins, including Oregon, prior to the AC. If we play mistake free, we have a chance in the AC. Historically, if it is close in the 3rd quarter we generally finish reasonably well. If it isn't we fold our tent. If it is close and we have a really uplifting play (example: Gleason's tackle of Cleeland in 1997), we are capable of surprising everyone.

I'm guessing that at game time UW will be favored by 10 or so. I expect we'll beat the spread. I'd also take the over for the game, because I expect that our D will be more effective against UW than it has been in several years. They will still score, but they won't have really long drives, and that means we will score more than we have lately.

 

[PeteTheChop]

Wulff and Leach are a combined 2-8 (each with a victory) with the last 4 being blowouts. I think that's terrible

Here's the Vegas line from the 10 most recent Apple Cups with either Mike Leach or Paul Wulff running the show:
2017: WSU +9.5
2016: WSU +6.5
2015: WSU +7.5
2014: WSU +4.0
2013: WSU +16.5
2012: WSU +14.0
2011: WSU +8.5
2010: WSU +5.5
2009: WSU +25.5
2008: WSU +7.0

• The Cougs haven't been favored in an Apple Cup since 2006
• UW — even with a winless 0-11 record and a lame-duck coach— was a touchdown favorite entering the Apple Cup in '08, but CPW engineered the upset despite a short-handed roster
  
• A similar scenario arose four years later, when CML outfoxed Sark-sleazian to win his memorable AC debut in '12

Taking into account WSU's underdog status per Vegas, one can argue Coach Wulff and Coach Leach actually have punched above their weights by winning one game apiece

Of course, there are others who will say not getting blown out in a bitter in-state rivalry counts for something, too.

Depends on how you look at it, I guess.

 

[wazzucougs96]

It's only May, after all.

WSU has a very realistic chance of being a consensus preseason Top 25 team, perhaps slipping into the 16-20 range in some rankings.

Yet it seems like nearly every prediction here at CougZone — even by folks forecasting an 8-4 or better regular season – suggests WSU will lose the Apple Cup.

LOL WHAT

No chance we are preseason Top 25. Literally no chance. And we have literally no chance of beating UW. Petersen coaches circles around Leach. Lay off the sauce.

 

[Loyal Coug]

[QUOTE="How_did_this_happen?, post: 167513, member: 508"]Leach's rival team is Utah. He has passion to beat them (recall his public excoriation of his oline when they destroyed us in SLC a few years back) is obvious. He is a BYU alum. BYU hates Utah and vice versa. It is immaterial that Leach is from Wyoming. UW is just another game.

I don't see us beating UW as long as it is a Leach vs Pete matchup.[/QUOTE]

If you post this another 50 times it still won't make it accurate. But go ahead and keep doing it.

I don't disagree with you on the Pets vs CML comment - but that has nothing to do with Utah.

Repeat of my remark from earlier in the thread. It's quite clever (and funny) I think:
Player X: "Gee I didn't think Apple Cup was any big deal, certainly no one wrote, said or broadcast anything about it, and CML didn't do a good enough job firing me up so I whimpered out there and got my butt kicked". It's your fault coach!

 

[wazzucougs96]

If it hadn't been for the epic collapse in 2012, UW would be sitting on a 9 game winning streak in the series.

Our largest margin of victory over UW since the 94 game is a mere 7 points. In that time I lost count of how many wins they have had by 3 TDs or more. (The answer is 5, with another 2 wins by 18)

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

[QUOTE="How_did_this_happen?, post: 167513, member: 508"]Leach's rival team is Utah. He has passion to beat them (recall his public excoriation of his oline when they destroyed us in SLC a few years back) is obvious. He is a BYU alum. BYU hates Utah and vice versa. It is immaterial that Leach is from Wyoming. UW is just another game.

I don't see us beating UW as long as it is a Leach vs Pete matchup.

If you post this another 50 times it still won't make it accurate. But go ahead and keep doing it.

I don't disagree with you on the Pets vs CML comment - but that has nothing to do with Utah.

Repeat of my remark from earlier in the thread. It's quite clever (and funny) I think:
Player X: "Gee I didn't think Apple Cup was any big deal, certainly no one wrote, said or broadcast anything about it, and CML didn't do a good enough job firing me up so I whimpered out there and got my butt kicked". It's your fault coach![/QUOTE]





I can only go by Leach's reaction to losing by a wide margin vs Utah (and his BYU lineage...which is one of the most intense in all of college football) vs his reaction to losing to UW. Seems like there is no comparison to the intensity.

I could be wrong...

 

[wazzubruce]

Wow. I don't see these 8 or 9 wins everyone seems to be throwing around. Last I looked we're basically going to have a qb that hasn't thrown a Pac-12 pass. We lost a lot of talent from last year, including the continuity of our coaching staff, D-Coord. etc. I see the Cougs in a rebuilding year. I can see maybe 6 wins, and with some luck 7. But I'm trying to be realistic with all the changes and lost players from last year. The first game in Wyoming will be a test for sure. They have 9 returning starters from a good defense and the Cougs winning in Laramie is going to be difficult. If they show up and think they're going win, I got news for you.... that Coach from formerly NDSU will have his team ready and WSU won't be happy. I wish Leach knew how to prepare kids for big games..... I actually think the Wyoming game is a big game.... it will set the tone for the year. Bohl's team will be ready. The one good thing about that game, is the Cowboys will be breaking in a new or mostly inexperience qb also.

 

[YakiCoug]

Why? Because the same whiners we hardly ever heard from during 8-game winning streaks and while WSU was sitting near or on top of the Pac-12 north need to piss and moan.

Depends on how you look at it, I guess.

After the last games against UW, maybe CML has something new in store to turn around the rivalry.

[/QUOTE]

It's only May, after all.

WSU has a very realistic chance of being a consensus preseason Top 25 team, perhaps slipping into the 16-20 range in some rankings.

Yet it seems like nearly every prediction here at CougZone — even by folks forecasting an 8-4 or better regular season – suggests WSU will lose the Apple Cup.

A few posters even predict a lopsided defeat.

But isn't that unnecessarily pessimistic?

The Cougs have won 5 of the past 14 Apple Cups — not dominant, but, all things considered, not terrible either (It's actually better than the historical average in the series).

Three of the most recent victories were in the friendly confines of Martin Stadium, where the AC returns in late November.

Mike Leach is a future Hall of Famer.

After the last games against UW, maybe CML has something new in store to turn around the rivalry.

 

[PeteTheChop]

Wow. I don't see these 8 or 9 wins everyone seems to be throwing around.

CML has branded himself as an elite CFB coach by surprising the pundits.

IMO, an 8-4 regular season wouldn't be a shock considering Leach's track record of success at both Texas Tech and Wazzu.

I actually think the Wyoming game is a big game.... it will set the tone for the year.

I lean more to what CML always preaches to his players and staff: "They are all big games."

As far as setting the tone in Laramie, the Cougs have bounced back from a slow start quite nicely in two of the past three seasons:

• In 2015, WSU lost to Division I-AA Portland State in Pullman and qualified for the Sun Bowl
• In 2016, WSU lost to Division I-AA Eastern in Pullman and then Mountain West foe Boise State in Idaho and still advanced to the Holiday Bowl

Not sure one game will make-or-break the Cougs for 2018.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Pete,

Our schedule is certainly going to be set up to get us to 3-0 if we are worthy of a bowl game. We have enough legitimate holes in our lines that if we can't win early, we are unlikely to rebound the way we did in 2015 & 2016.....but as you are pointing out.....never say never. 8-9 wins (counting the bowl game) is certainly achievable, but it's not going to be easy.

@ Wyoming - W
SJSU - W
EWU - W
@ USC - L
Utah - W
@ OSU - W
Oregon - L
@ Stanford - L
Cal - W
@ CU - W
Arizona - L
UW - L

We only have four games that are "likely" wins......Wyoming, SJSU, EWU & OSU. Cal, Utah, CU and Arizona are 50/50 games where it can go either way. Oregon makes me nervous because they are due for a good season. USC, Stanford and UW are just better programs overall with more talent and good coaching. We always give Stanford fits, but this just doesn't feel like a great year for us to play them. Weak DL against their running game has me nervous as hell. I won't be surprised to see us start out 5-1 and get into the Top 25 before the wheels fall off this year.

I view this year as a throwaway year where just making it to a bowl game is enough for me to be thrilled.

 

[CougEd]

It's only May, after all.

WSU has a very realistic chance of being a consensus preseason Top 25 team, perhaps slipping into the 16-20 range in some rankings.

Yet it seems like nearly every prediction here at CougZone — even by folks forecasting an 8-4 or better regular season – suggests WSU will lose the Apple Cup.

A few posters even predict a lopsided defeat.

But isn't that unnecessarily pessimistic?

The Cougs have won 5 of the past 14 Apple Cups — not dominant, but, all things considered, not terrible either (It's actually better than the historical average in the series).

Three of the most recent victories were in the friendly confines of Martin Stadium, where the AC returns in late November.

Mike Leach is a future Hall of Famer.

After the last games against UW, maybe CML has something new in store to turn around the rivalry.

I guess it probably has to do with how we have played . It could be argued we have played one good quarter of football since 2006 against the huskies , and that was the 4th quarter of the 2012 Apple Cup.

The last three games haven’t been close, and there doesn’t appear on the surface to be a change in approach or subtle changes to the game plan to make it more competitive .

 

[CougEd]

And our coaches don't know how to counter this? Amazing.

Well...if you simply base it on results it doesn't seem like they have effectively countered it.

 

[CougEd]

We are at a rare time in Apple Cup history where the Huskies are actually a really good program just as we becoming a threat.

Leach beat Sark with a bare-bones team, he would have crushed Willingham and Neuheisel. But Peterson is a good coach. He was one of the best coaches in the western area for a long time, and UW has always had the money and facilities and location to be good. They just always were incompetent in their hiring, They, unfortunately, wisened up and they are successful.

For us we have a much much harder hill to climb. Don't have the money, don't have the natural recruiting areas, are in a remote area. Those are tremendous obstacles to overcome, but Leach has done that and has got us to the point where we can beat teams that have had the advantage.

So what is it going to take for us to get over the Apple Cup hump to beat the huskies with Peterson at the helm?

Consistent program building over time improving our recruiting and getting better and better players to narrow the talent gap.
A healthy full deep roster of Senior/Junior upperclass maturity of those players forming a cohesive group.

We haven't quite hit that stage yet but are building towards that step. When you look at where we are over the past six seasons you see bursts but not the whole package all together all at once. Guys graduate and we keep moving forward but every year we always take a step back looking for the pieces to all come together.

For example:

A team of

Healthy playing his best Luke Falk (or even Halliday as a mature Senior)

Senior - Cole Madison
Senior - Joe Dahl
Senior - Mauigoa
Senior - Riley Sorenson
Senior - Andre Dillard

Gabe Marks / Tavares Martin (no funny business mature focused/ or Even Marquitter if he wasn't an idiot)
Dom Williams / Tay Martin
Vince Mayle (full 4 year playing not JUCO transfer) / Dez Patmon
River Cracraft / Kyle Sweet

Jamal Morrow
James Williams

Destiny Vaeo, Barber, Hercules, Cooper, Ekuale, Travis Long (all seniors all healthy)

Frankie Luvu, Pelleur, Woods, Tago (All healthy all seniors)

Luani (no Juco transfer full 4 years senior / Deone Buchanon) as Safeties with Jalen Thompson and Robert Taylor (Senior no transfer)

With Molton and of Course the greatest Coug DB ever of all time Pippins / Sean Harper (Senior no transfer)

All coached by Grinch etc.

Do we beat the huskies/Peterson if they run into that all healthy all mature seniors? Yeah. We beat them, but we haven't had a team / season come together of that caliber yet, and that's what it will take.

Are these the best cougs of all time? No. But they are the best cougs that have passed through the past 6 years but they all have to be with each other playing together all healthy when we face the Huskies.

Because that's the level they are operating at every season right now because of the talent/money gap. We have had the pieces to beat them, but not them coming together at the same time.

Now how far away are we from getting to that point now? Not THAT far, but I really do think the class of Borghi, Fischer, Cooper are the nucleus of that emerging moment. I see a lot of talent like Tay Martin emerging, guys like Woods, etc. that are the start of a new phase coming together.

Everyone wants it to come together immediately, but I will say it again to people. We were REALLY behind in the talent depth arena at the beginning of the Leach era and Peterson walked into a stocked fridge and could build on that.

We have some great ingredients, but not a full fridge, and if we want to beat the Huskies we must have a fully stocked fridge too.

Tron there was a time when we even had a greater chasm in terms of resources and we beat them 3/4 years, and it probably should have been four out of 4 years.

We have to figure out how to make the games competitive, because UW has beaten us with some young teams.

 

[Cougatron]

Tron there was a time when we even had a greater chasm in terms of resources and we beat them 3/4 years, and it probably should have been four out of 4 years.

We have to figure out how to make the games competitive, because UW has beaten us with some young teams.

The “greater chasm” is a lie. Talent disparity wasn’t as pronounced before TV contracts making it about economic disparity.

I'll show the actual proof of that.

Here's the source

Basically, in the 1980s someone at Oklahoma State did a research paper on talent disparity and looked at recruiting and as you can see UW had only 3 more Blue Chip recruits than we did.

Only 3.

What happened was that as TV revenue and broadcasting was introduced there was more demand for "bigger market" schools to be shown on television. Because that would generate more ad revenue, and thus the rich got richer and those in smaller media market areas got poorer.

With the conference TV deals it started to rebalance that back out through equal distributions, but the exposure and early money already did a significant amount of damage.

From the year 1990 on do you know how many times we beat the huskies? 8 times. 8 times TOTAL from the start of the TV era. 28 years only 8 wins. that's a win % of just 28%.

That's including Mike Price and the Rose Bowl trips, that's including Ty Willingham era (who accounts for 3 of those wins). Just 8 wins in 28 years.


Now when was our best span?

1948 to 1958 post WWII
During that decade we won 6 out of 10 or 60%.
And we had 4 different coaches during that time.

So after post WWII when the talent and money was about as equal as it could be we won more of the series than UW, but post WWII things changed.

Jim Owens became coach of UW and he won 12 apple cups (8 in a row) from 1959 to 1974. We won only won 4

and then Don James was hired and he won 7 in a row (including the last 4 in a row against your precious "Jim Walden") walden won 3 out of 4 only then to lose to Don James again in his last season.

Of course I'm sure you need no reminding of the loser that Walden was. .430 Win % and 3-6 or a .333 win percentage in Apple Cups... the "great" JIM WALDEN... 1 bowl game, 3 out of 9 winning seasons, 4 of them with only 3 wins and 2 with 4 wins...and of course at Iowa State he didn't win a single game his last year coaching but hey somehow... a "Cougar Legend"

So going over the actual history of WSU you find that when things were as even as possible we actually were about even (imagine that)

and through 2 decades of WSU screwing around despite only have slightly less blue chips we found ways to let the huskies walk all over us...

But then the TV era began with modern recruiting and the rich got richer and the poor got poorer and even when we were having the most success during the Price Era it didn't change things much save for the Willingham flop that helped us in the series.

The gap had grown ridiculously wide, and while I think Leach is narrowing the gap a good coach like Peterson highlights that gap despite Leach trying to make ground on it.

When WSU is in striking distance of UW talent the series will turn. I just showed you that Walden had only 3 fewer blue chips than UW during his era and he could only muster 3-6 wins.

To show you what that talent gap being that close today would look like we'll slot WSU just 6 slots below UW like in the chart above for the 2018 class. Just six slots slower...

That would put WSU at #19 nationally in recruiting. You ready for the breakdown of talent at #19
9 - 4 Star players. NINE
13 - 3 Star players

You know how many we had in this past class?
2.

UW? - 16 - 4 Star players.

So no Ed the chasm wasn't greater. It was MUCH smaller, and when you roll out a 9-40 worthless coach you get even further behind in a gap that was accelerated by big market TV contracts.

 

[froropmkr72]

The “greater chasm” is a lie. Talent disparity wasn’t as pronounced before TV contracts making it about economic disparity.

I'll show the actual proof of that.

Here's the source

Basically, in the 1980s someone at Oklahoma State did a research paper on talent disparity and looked at recruiting and as you can see UW had only 3 more Blue Chip recruits than we did.

Only 3.

What happened was that as TV revenue and broadcasting was introduced there was more demand for "bigger market" schools to be shown on television. Because that would generate more ad revenue, and thus the rich got richer and those in smaller media market areas got poorer.

With the conference TV deals it started to rebalance that back out through equal distributions, but the exposure and early money already did a significant amount of damage.

From the year 1990 on do you know how many times we beat the huskies? 8 times. 8 times TOTAL from the start of the TV era. 28 years only 8 wins. that's a win % of just 28%.

That's including Mike Price and the Rose Bowl trips, that's including Ty Willingham era (who accounts for 3 of those wins). Just 8 wins in 28 years.


Now when was our best span?

1948 to 1958 post WWII
During that decade we won 6 out of 10 or 60%.
And we had 4 different coaches during that time.

So after post WWII when the talent and money was about as equal as it could be we won more of the series than UW, but post WWII things changed.

Jim Owens became coach of UW and he won 12 apple cups (8 in a row) from 1959 to 1974. We won only won 4

and then Don James was hired and he won 7 in a row (including the last 4 in a row against your precious "Jim Walden") walden won 3 out of 4 only then to lose to Don James again in his last season.

Of course I'm sure you need no reminding of the loser that Walden was. .430 Win % and 3-6 or a .333 win percentage in Apple Cups... the "great" JIM WALDEN... 1 bowl game, 3 out of 9 winning seasons, 4 of them with only 3 wins and 2 with 4 wins...and of course at Iowa State he didn't win a single game his last year coaching but hey somehow... a "Cougar Legend"

So going over the actual history of WSU you find that when things were as even as possible we actually were about even (imagine that)

and through 2 decades of WSU screwing around despite only have slightly less blue chips we found ways to let the huskies walk all over us...

But then the TV era began with modern recruiting and the rich got richer and the poor got poorer and even when we were having the most success during the Price Era it didn't change things much save for the Willingham flop that helped us in the series.

The gap had grown ridiculously wide, and while I think Leach is narrowing the gap a good coach like Peterson highlights that gap despite Leach trying to make ground on it.

When WSU is in striking distance of UW talent the series will turn. I just showed you that Walden had only 3 fewer blue chips than UW during his era and he could only muster 3-6 wins.

To show you what that talent gap being that close today would look like we'll slot WSU just 6 slots below UW like in the chart above for the 2018 class. Just six slots slower...

That would put WSU at #19 nationally in recruiting. You ready for the breakdown of talent at #19
9 - 4 Star players. NINE
13 - 3 Star players

You know how many we had in this past class?
2.

UW? - 16 - 4 Star players.

So no Ed the chasm wasn't greater. It was MUCH smaller, and when you roll out a 9-40 worthless coach you get even further behind in a gap that was accelerated by big market TV contracts.

Who would put much faith into what they called a blue chip athletes long before everyone had a chance to evaluate the talent. Yes, the top teams did have better talent, but they did rely on reporters declaring what a blue chip was or not. If you look at the entire decade and the best teams...you'd have Notre Dame (7th best record of the 70's) with 30 blue chips on a single team going up against Nebraska (3rd best record of the 70's) who would have 8-9 on a given team.

 

[CougEd]

The “greater chasm” is a lie. Talent disparity wasn’t as pronounced before TV contracts making it about economic disparity.

I'll show the actual proof of that.

Here's the source

Basically, in the 1980s someone at Oklahoma State did a research paper on talent disparity and looked at recruiting and as you can see UW had only 3 more Blue Chip recruits than we did.

Only 3.

What happened was that as TV revenue and broadcasting was introduced there was more demand for "bigger market" schools to be shown on television. Because that would generate more ad revenue, and thus the rich got richer and those in smaller media market areas got poorer.

With the conference TV deals it started to rebalance that back out through equal distributions, but the exposure and early money already did a significant amount of damage.

From the year 1990 on do you know how many times we beat the huskies? 8 times. 8 times TOTAL from the start of the TV era. 28 years only 8 wins. that's a win % of just 28%.

That's including Mike Price and the Rose Bowl trips, that's including Ty Willingham era (who accounts for 3 of those wins). Just 8 wins in 28 years.


Now when was our best span?

1948 to 1958 post WWII
During that decade we won 6 out of 10 or 60%.
And we had 4 different coaches during that time.

So after post WWII when the talent and money was about as equal as it could be we won more of the series than UW, but post WWII things changed.

Jim Owens became coach of UW and he won 12 apple cups (8 in a row) from 1959 to 1974. We won only won 4

and then Don James was hired and he won 7 in a row (including the last 4 in a row against your precious "Jim Walden") walden won 3 out of 4 only then to lose to Don James again in his last season.

Of course I'm sure you need no reminding of the loser that Walden was. .430 Win % and 3-6 or a .333 win percentage in Apple Cups... the "great" JIM WALDEN... 1 bowl game, 3 out of 9 winning seasons, 4 of them with only 3 wins and 2 with 4 wins...and of course at Iowa State he didn't win a single game his last year coaching but hey somehow... a "Cougar Legend"

So going over the actual history of WSU you find that when things were as even as possible we actually were about even (imagine that)

and through 2 decades of WSU screwing around despite only have slightly less blue chips we found ways to let the huskies walk all over us...

But then the TV era began with modern recruiting and the rich got richer and the poor got poorer and even when we were having the most success during the Price Era it didn't change things much save for the Willingham flop that helped us in the series.

The gap had grown ridiculously wide, and while I think Leach is narrowing the gap a good coach like Peterson highlights that gap despite Leach trying to make ground on it.

When WSU is in striking distance of UW talent the series will turn. I just showed you that Walden had only 3 fewer blue chips than UW during his era and he could only muster 3-6 wins.

To show you what that talent gap being that close today would look like we'll slot WSU just 6 slots below UW like in the chart above for the 2018 class. Just six slots slower...

That would put WSU at #19 nationally in recruiting. You ready for the breakdown of talent at #19
9 - 4 Star players. NINE
13 - 3 Star players

You know how many we had in this past class?
2.

UW? - 16 - 4 Star players.

So no Ed the chasm wasn't greater. It was MUCH smaller, and when you roll out a 9-40 worthless coach you get even further behind in a gap that was accelerated by big market TV contracts.

This is your proof, some paper by a OSU student? You are correct, if we played 7/7 skelly drills there might not have been a chasm. Ever look behind the numbers? first, I would love to know who the 4 Blue Chippers that were recruited by WSU. I know of one during that era, Mark Rypien. And because when he signed, I believe 81, which would have been the last year of the "study", he would not have had any impact on the games during that study. Was Jack Thompson a Blue Chip? If a Blue Chip was having offers between Oregon and WSU then I suppose the answer is yes.

Let me explain where the chasm was. Don James just started getting it cranked up in the late 70's. UW had FOUR times the recruiting budget as WSU. Their stadium was almost twice the size of Martin Stadium. They had the RICHEST radio contract in the country in those years. Not the Pac 10, not the west coast, but the country.

Then take a look at facilities. UW had a single use grass practice field. Our practice field was shared with the intramural department. Could you imagine Leach going out to his practice facility October 10 and it is a mud pit because the students used it every night?

That meant the coach had to take the entire team into Martin Stadium. Where does a kicker practice for example when both offense and defense have 50 yards in which to practice. And back in those days Martin stadium was outdoor carpet. The team was running on cement every day in practice. Can you imagine the toll that takes on the body?

Then there was a matter of games. ROUGHLY one third of the season was over before the students were on campus. Also, the configuration of the stadium on the student section was different and didn't provide the revenue it now does. The student section was endzone to endzone except the last ten rows and those were paid seating. Not sure if it was general admission (pretty sure it was) or reserved, but clearly not the revenue it now provides.

Then the big games INCLUDING the Apple Cup were played either in Joe Albi (mostly) Kingdome (once) or a home game was sold back to the visiting team like it was to BYU.

Then the schedule looks a little different as well. Yes, WSU had cupcakes but they had body bag games as well. When I look at this years schedule for example I don't see a Michigan, Ohio State, or Tennessee.

As I see it, there was a rising power at UW, a rich radio contract, Don James recruiting classes started to take more of a national prominence, WSU didn't play UW or bigger schools in Pullman, and WSU was on the heels of 4 coaches in four years.

Oh BTW, a facilities remodel was the coaches going to Rima paint and hardware and picking up a few gallons of paint to paint their offices. Could you imagine asking Mike Leach to paint his own office?

WSU was ready to get pushed to the WAC because they were seen as such a financial drain to the conference.

The difference in the programs were much different back in those days...and it isn't even close.

 

[PeteTheChop]

This is your proof, some paper by a OSU student? You are correct, if we played 7/7 skelly drills there might not have been a chasm. Ever look behind the numbers? first, I would love to know who the 4 Blue Chippers that were recruited by WSU. I know of one during that era, Mark Rypien. And because when he signed, I believe 81, which would have been the last year of the "study", he would not have had any impact on the games during that study. Was Jack Thompson a Blue chip? If a Blue Chip was offers between Oregon and WSU then I suppose the answer is yes.

Let me explain where the chasm was. Don James just started getting in cranked up in the late 70's. UW had FOUR times the recruiting budget as WSU. Their stadium was almost twice the size of MArtin Stadium. they had the RICHEST radio contract in the country in those years. Not the Pac 10, not the west coast, but the country.

The take a look at facilities. They had a single use grass practice field. Our practice field was shared with the intramural department. Could you imagine Leach going out to his practice facility October 10 and it is a mud pit because the students used it every night?

That meant the coach had to take the entire team into Martin Stadium. Where does a kicker practice for example when both offense and defense have 50 yards in which to practice. And back in those days Martin stadium was outdoor carpet. The team was running on cement every day in practice.

Then there was a matter of games. ROUGHLY one third of the season was over before the students were on campus. Also, the configuration of the stadium on the student section was different and didn't provide the revenue it now does. The student section was endzone to endzone except the last ten rows and those were paid seating. Not sure if it was general admission or reserved, but clearly not the revenue it now provides.

Then the big games INCLUDING the Apple Cup were played either in Joe Albi (mostly) Kingdome (once) or a home game was sold back to the visiting team like it was to BYU.

Then the schedule looks a little different as well. Yes, WSU had cupcakes but they had body bag games as well. When I look at this years schedule for example I don't see a Michigan, Ohio State, or Tennessee.

As I see it, there was a rising power at UW, a rich radio contract, Don James recruiting classes started to take more of a national prominence, WSU didn't play UW or bigger schools in Pullman, and WSU was on the heels of 4 coaches in four years.

Oh BTW, a facilities remodel was the coaches going to Rima paint and hardware and picking up a few gallons of paint to paint their offices. Could you imagine asking Mike Leach to paint his own office?

WSU was ready to get pushed to the WAC because they were seen as such a financial drain to the conference.

The difference in the programs were much different back in those days...and it isn't even close.

Some excellent perspective here on what really was "Apples and Oranges" as they say.

Thanks for sharing, Ed.

 

[Cougatron]

Who would put much faith into what they called a blue chip athletes long before everyone had a chance to evaluate the talent. Yes, the top teams did have better talent, but they did rely on reporters declaring what a blue chip was or not. If you look at the entire decade and the best teams...you'd have Notre Dame (7th best record of the 70's) with 30 blue chips on a single team going up against Nebraska (3rd best record of the 70's) who would have 8-9 on a given team.

Notre Dame and Nebraska both had lots of blue chips and Notre Dame consistently has under performed given their wealth of talent (and financial wealth).

Nebraska of course has had lots of success and they had lots of blue chip recruits. They also had excellent coaching during that span. So blue chips + good coaching will = success. It always will.

You need both, and the point I was making is that the disparity in talent was NOT as big as Ed makes it out to be in the past.

 

[CougEd]

Notre Dame and Nebraska both had lots of blue chips and Notre Dame consistently has under performed given their wealth of talent (and financial wealth).

Nebraska of course has had lots of success and they had lots of blue chip recruits. They also had excellent coaching during that span. So blue chips + good coaching will = success. It always will.

You need both, and the point I was making is that the disparity in talent was NOT as big as Ed makes it out to be in the past.

11 blue chips in 10 year period, what about the rest of the classes? 25 Players per year, so what about the other 24 players per class? How did those classes rank? And why? Again, UW in late 70's and early 80's could out spend WSU by a factor of 4. That alone is a huge disparity.

And you keep on speaking of Waldens 3-9 record against the UW. At the rate we are beating the UW now it may take 18 years. We are currently winning 1 in every 6 Apple Cups. And we will be a huge underdog in 2018.

 

[Cougatron]

This is your proof, some paper by a OSU student? You are correct, if we played 7/7 skelly drills there might not have been a chasm. Ever look behind the numbers? first, I would love to know who the 4 Blue Chippers that were recruited by WSU. I know of one during that era, Mark Rypien. And because when he signed, I believe 81, which would have been the last year of the "study", he would not have had any impact on the games during that study. Was Jack Thompson a Blue Chip? If a Blue Chip was having offers between Oregon and WSU then I suppose the answer is yes.

Let me explain where the chasm was. Don James just started getting it cranked up in the late 70's. UW had FOUR times the recruiting budget as WSU. Their stadium was almost twice the size of Martin Stadium. They had the RICHEST radio contract in the country in those years. Not the Pac 10, not the west coast, but the country.

Then take a look at facilities. UW had a single use grass practice field. Our practice field was shared with the intramural department. Could you imagine Leach going out to his practice facility October 10 and it is a mud pit because the students used it every night?

That meant the coach had to take the entire team into Martin Stadium. Where does a kicker practice for example when both offense and defense have 50 yards in which to practice. And back in those days Martin stadium was outdoor carpet. The team was running on cement every day in practice. Can you imagine the toll that takes on the body?

Then there was a matter of games. ROUGHLY one third of the season was over before the students were on campus. Also, the configuration of the stadium on the student section was different and didn't provide the revenue it now does. The student section was endzone to endzone except the last ten rows and those were paid seating. Not sure if it was general admission (pretty sure it was) or reserved, but clearly not the revenue it now provides.

Then the big games INCLUDING the Apple Cup were played either in Joe Albi (mostly) Kingdome (once) or a home game was sold back to the visiting team like it was to BYU.

Then the schedule looks a little different as well. Yes, WSU had cupcakes but they had body bag games as well. When I look at this years schedule for example I don't see a Michigan, Ohio State, or Tennessee.

As I see it, there was a rising power at UW, a rich radio contract, Don James recruiting classes started to take more of a national prominence, WSU didn't play UW or bigger schools in Pullman, and WSU was on the heels of 4 coaches in four years.

Oh BTW, a facilities remodel was the coaches going to Rima paint and hardware and picking up a few gallons of paint to paint their offices. Could you imagine asking Mike Leach to paint his own office?

WSU was ready to get pushed to the WAC because they were seen as such a financial drain to the conference.

The difference in the programs were much different back in those days...and it isn't even close.

1987 $13 million renovation project was completed at Husky Stadium including increasing the seating capacity to 72,500.

Here's what the capacity of Husky stadium was before 1987.
58,000 (1968–1986). That's right Ed. It was a 58k stadium up till 1987.

37,600 (1979–2002) was Martin Stadium. A difference of 21 k.

You know what Husky Stadium is today?

70k Stadium.

Martin? 33k

The difference? 37k.

The chasm is.... WIDER today.... thana it was back then.
WIDER Ed. 70k > 58k
Martin 33 < 37k

We went down in seating Ed while they leaped forward. And their leap began in 1987... Right as I said the Media rights frenzy started in 1990.

Running on cement? taking a toll on the body? You are the king of excuses. Husky stadium had astroturf. That's concrete too Ed.


"As I see it, there was a rising power at UW, a rich radio contract, Don James recruiting classes started to take more of a national prominence, WSU didn't play UW or bigger schools in Pullman, and WSU was on the heels of 4 coaches in four years."

"Rising power". UW just actually hired decent coaches and didn't screw around with the likes of Jim Walden. 4 coaches in 4 years?

You had Warren Powers who was a good coach hired by MIssouri after Sweeney you had Sherill who would go onto great success at Pitt.

The guy who stuck was a loser named Jim Walden and he talked a lot of horseh*t and a lot of snake oil, and dumb people like you bought it. That's the truth.

I showed you that the blue chip recruiting gap wasn't that large. I showed you that the stadium capacity difference was not nearly what it was today.

The only place that "greater chasm" exists is in your own head.

The radio contract in 1978 was not the "biggest in the country". It was just a radio contract and if you remember correctly what was going in the country / Seattle during that time...

"By late 1971, the Boeing workforce plummeted to 32,500, and local economic indicators were in freefall. Battered by the misfortunes of the area's largest employer and by a national business slump coupled with inflation, the region entered "the longest and deepest recession since the Great Depression," as a Times writer put it in 1975."

It was in a recession. There wasn't a lot of money to throw around at that time. There was no Microsoft money in Seattle. There was a string of oil crisis during that time that was battering things economically.

All that happened was KOMO secured the rights to broadcast the Huskies and they had an actual stable place to broadcast their games. It wasn't some windfall differential. It was just a contract.

Your memory is completely warped because you drank way way way too much Walden Kool-Aid.

 

[Cougatron]

11 blue chips in 10 year period, what about the rest of the classes? 25 Players per year, so what about the other 24 players per class? How did those classes rank? And why? Again, UW in late 70's and early 80's could out spend WSU by a factor of 4. That alone is a huge disparity.

And you keep on speaking of Waldens 3-9 record against the UW. At the rate we are beating the UW now it may take 18 years. We are currently winning 1 in every 6 Apple Cups. And we will be a huge underdog in 2018.

Yes Ed and the reason is the gap is bigger now and when we needed to catch ground most we screwed around with 9-40 tanking us even further while the Huskies stabilized with mediocre Sark.

The gap will close with Leach putting up winning seasons, but UW is WAY ahead and has been for some time and while Leach is digging us out of the hole, it will take a long time to get on close parity. That's just the honest truth. You want it to go fast. Get more people to contribute to the program financially and keep building up the program at all costs. That's what it will take.

 

[Loyal Coug]

1987 $13 million renovation project was completed at Husky Stadium including increasing the seating capacity to 72,500.

Here's what the capacity of Husky stadium was before 1987.
58,000 (1968–1986). That's right Ed. It was a 58k stadium up till 1987.

37,600 (1979–2002) was Martin Stadium. A difference of 21 k.

The radio contract in 1978 was not the "biggest in the country". It was just a radio contract and if you remember correctly what was going in the country / Seattle during that time...

"By late 1971, the Boeing workforce plummeted to 32,500, and local economic indicators were in freefall. Battered by the misfortunes of the area's largest employer and by a national business slump coupled with inflation, the region entered "the longest and deepest recession since the Great Depression," as a Times writer put it in 1975."

Your memory is completely warped because you drank way way way too much Walden Kool-Aid.

Gezzus dude how old are you? Your post took me damn near back to my cradle - and I'm pretty freaking old.

1975 took my memory back to tie died shirts.......

That said, all the figures simply get me back to my recurring, and to some nauseating, point that we need to put the second deck on the bowl and get us up to at least 40,000. So thanks for agreeing with me!

 

[CougEd]

1987 $13 million renovation project was completed at Husky Stadium including increasing the seating capacity to 72,500.

Here's what the capacity of Husky stadium was before 1987.
58,000 (1968–1986). That's right Ed. It was a 58k stadium up till 1987.

37,600 (1979–2002) was Martin Stadium. A difference of 21 k.

You know what Husky Stadium is today?

70k Stadium.

Martin? 33k

The difference? 37k.

The chasm is.... WIDER today.... thana it was back then.
WIDER Ed. 70k > 58k
Martin 33 < 37k



We went down in seating Ed while they leaped forward. And their leap began in 1987... Right as I said the Media rights frenzy started in 1990.

Running on cement? taking a toll on the body? You are the king of excuses. Husky stadium had astroturf. That's concrete too Ed.


"As I see it, there was a rising power at UW, a rich radio contract, Don James recruiting classes started to take more of a national prominence, WSU didn't play UW or bigger schools in Pullman, and WSU was on the heels of 4 coaches in four years."

"Rising power". UW just actually hired decent coaches and didn't screw around with the likes of Jim Walden. 4 coaches in 4 years?

You had Warren Powers who was a good coach hired by MIssouri after Sweeney you had Sherill who would go onto great success at Pitt.

The guy who stuck was a loser named Jim Walden and he talked a lot of horseh*t and a lot of snake oil, and dumb people like you bought it. That's the truth.

I showed you that the blue chip recruiting gap wasn't that large. I showed you that the stadium capacity difference was not nearly what it was today.

The only place that "greater chasm" exists is in your own head.

The radio contract in 1978 was not the "biggest in the country". It was just a radio contract and if you remember correctly what was going in the country / Seattle during that time...

"By late 1971, the Boeing workforce plummeted to 32,500, and local economic indicators were in freefall. Battered by the misfortunes of the area's largest employer and by a national business slump coupled with inflation, the region entered "the longest and deepest recession since the Great Depression," as a Times writer put it in 1975."

It was in a recession. There wasn't a lot of money to throw around at that time. There was no Microsoft money in Seattle. There was a string of oil crisis during that time that was battering things economically.

All that happened was KOMO secured the rights to broadcast the Huskies and they had an actual stable place to broadcast their games. It wasn't some windfall differential. It was just a contract.

Your memory is completely warped because you drank way way way too much Walden Kool-Aid.

Too funny... you do get UW played for three straight Rose Bowls 81/82/83. In 84 they went to the Orange Bowl.

And sorry the astroturf comment went over your head. Yes, the UW played on it 6 days a year. we PRACTICED on it every day.

The KOMO contract wasn't just a contract. It was the largest in the country. And there was plenty of money in the Tyee club to vastly outspend the WSU.

And if you think people will be donating more to keep up you are not grounded in reality.

My memory is not warped. Walden had won one more Apple Cup than Leach in his first 6 Apple Cups, and the Dawgs were in Rose Bowl contention.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

Tron, I'll just toss in one thought.

I appreciate your facts. You make as much of an effort as anyone on this board to support your ideas with statistics, and more than most. Your objective facts are why I read your posts. You are also a CougFan in the most unadulterated form of the expression. Unfortunately, you tend to be blinded by some really deep-seated animosities toward specific and well known previous coaches/admin types. It is fine to have such immediate and uncontrolled emotional reactions to specific names, so long as you recognize that it is a struggle to remain rational and impossible to be objective when in the midst of one of those emotional moments. Please...be kind to yourself, your blood pressure and your health. If this site is healthy for you in terms of letting you vent, then fine. But have you ever checked your pulse and blood pressure numbers while reading some of the other posters? Please do so and verify that you are not putting yourself at risk. It just isn't worth it. And I mean all of this in the most kind and Coug-supportive way.

 

[Cougsocal]

Tron's passion, partiality and complete lack objectivity reminds me of when I was young.