Why so much gloom and doom re: Apple Cup 2018

[froropmkr72]

Notre Dame and Nebraska both had lots of blue chips and Notre Dame consistently has under performed given their wealth of talent (and financial wealth).

Nebraska of course has had lots of success and they had lots of blue chip recruits. They also had excellent coaching during that span. So blue chips + good coaching will = success. It always will.

You need both, and the point I was making is that the disparity in talent was NOT as big as Ed makes it out to be in the past.

In terms of NFL talent....75'-84 uw had 26 draft picks in the first 7 rounds and WSU had 13. They both had 3 1st rounders during that time.

2009'-2018' uw had 25 picks and 7 in the 1st rd. WSU had 10 draft picks and one first rounder. You're right in terms of talent from 09'-18', but I'm not sure that the blue chip evaluations done back in 70's wasn't very accurate. With the easy access to film today...Dan Pastorini would of gone to UCLA and Kenny Anderson would of been at Michigan.

 

[Cougatron]

Tron's passion, partiality and complete lack objectivity reminds me of when I was young.

I think I am quite thorough in my assessments. I typically look at a large scope of factors around assessments and make comparisons on the statistical and historical evaluation and compare and contrast that against similar instances. I then back up my assertions with the research.

It’s very different from “I feel ______ “. I do not go by gut or emotions to me there is only facts and realities.

History and Statistics do not lie. They don’t warp things with sentimental thoughts or nostalgia. Only people do that.

When people are working on an engine. They may pray give it a good kick and hope that it turns over. They may sit and reminisce of how the car worked before and imagined it to be perfectly working better than any engine ever.

I want to know every part, every piston, the amount of fuel and oil, the faults of the design, the details regarding the combustion and efficiency, when it worked when it didn’t and I don’t care how people feel about it. I care if it works or it doesn’t.

 

[CougEd]

I think I am quite thorough in my assessments. I typically look at a large scope of factors around assessments and make comparisons on the statistical and historical evaluation and compare and contrast that against similar instances. I then back up my assertions with the research.

It’s very different from “I feel ______ “. I do not go by gut or emotions to me there is only facts and realities.

History and Statistics do not lie. They don’t warp things with sentimental thoughts or nostalgia. Only people do that.

When people are working on an engine. They may pray give it a good kick and hope that it turns over. They may sit and reminisce of how the car worked before and imagined it to be perfectly working better than any engine ever.

I want to know every part, every piston, the amount of fuel and oil, the faults of the design, the details regarding the combustion and efficiency, when it worked when it didn’t and I don’t care how people feel about it. I care if it works or it doesn’t.

Well tell me how this works. You say we need to have a senior laden team to beat the purple and piss, and if we are constantly upgrading talent or it isn’t around like 2014( which should be the senior clas) how do we get to that point. I know three senior contributors are swimming upstream . Also, since you analyze things as you do, what have you seen in the “pistons” such as Taylor comfort (hasn’t played) and all of the other players you mention as our depth from the 2014 class. Personally when evaluating whether Comfort can play I would think you would have to see him play. And how in your analysis do you include Tapa who isn’t listed on the spring roster. That seems like you are going against your analytical mind and going based on a name and hope .

 

[cr8zyncalif]

Tron's passion, partiality and complete lack objectivity reminds me of when I was young.

SoCal, be honest. You can't remember that far back. Neither can I...

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Well tell me how this works. You say we need to have a senior laden team to beat the purple and piss, and if we are constantly upgrading talent or it isn’t around like 2014( which should be the senior clas) how do we get to that point. I know three senior contributors are swimming upstream . Also, since you analyze things as you do, what have you seen in the “pistons” such as Taylor comfort (hasn’t played) and all of the other players you mention as our depth from the 2014 class. Personally when evaluating whether Comfort can play I would think you would have to see him play. And how in your analysis do you include Tapa who isn’t listed on the spring roster. That seems like you are going against your analytical mind and going based on a name and hope .

Come on man! Do you really want to argue for two pages about this?

 

[longtimecoug]

Pete,

Our schedule is certainly going to be set up to get us to 3-0 if we are worthy of a bowl game. We have enough legitimate holes in our lines that if we can't win early, we are unlikely to rebound the way we did in 2015 & 2016.....but as you are pointing out.....never say never. 8-9 wins (counting the bowl game) is certainly achievable, but it's not going to be easy.

@ Wyoming - W
SJSU - W
EWU - W
@ USC - L
Utah - W
@ OSU - W
Oregon - L
@ Stanford - L
Cal - W
@ CU - W
Arizona - L
UW - L

We only have four games that are "likely" wins......Wyoming, SJSU, EWU & OSU. Cal, Utah, CU and Arizona are 50/50 games where it can go either way. Oregon makes me nervous because they are due for a good season. USC, Stanford and UW are just better programs overall with more talent and good coaching. We always give Stanford fits, but this just doesn't feel like a great year for us to play them. Weak DL against their running game has me nervous as hell. I won't be surprised to see us start out 5-1 and get into the Top 25 before the wheels fall off this year.

I view this year as a throwaway year where just making it to a bowl game is enough for me to be thrilled.

due for a good season? great analysis. cristobal is not much of a head coach as time will tell

 

[Cougatron]

Well tell me how this works. You say we need to have a senior laden team to beat the purple and piss, and if we are constantly upgrading talent or it isn’t around like 2014( which should be the senior clas) how do we get to that point. I know three senior contributors are swimming upstream . Also, since you analyze things as you do, what have you seen in the “pistons” such as Taylor comfort (hasn’t played) and all of the other players you mention as our depth from the 2014 class. Personally when evaluating whether Comfort can play I would think you would have to see him play. And how in your analysis do you include Tapa who isn’t listed on the spring roster. That seems like you are going against your analytical mind and going based on a name and hope .

I said we need a Senior / Junior laden team that is comprised of talent hitting its peak.

What that means is 5th year Seniors / 4th-year Seniors ./ RS Juniors / Juniors of a fully loaded team that is within striking distance in recruiting parity.

So to give you an idea of what that would look like via classes that would be.

2017 (the 5th year seniors) > 2021

2021 - 5th year Seniors - from Class of 2017
4th year Seniors - from Class of 2018
RS Juniors - from Class of 2018
Juniors - from Class of 2019

Now as you can see a roster is comprised of 3 classes which roughly amounts to 22 slots (if they are all starters)

So that's about 7 people per class within talent striking distance of UW.

So let's walk it back and see how many of those we have in the current classes. (Remember we are looking for 9 - 4 stars)

2018 - Cam Cooper (4star)
2018 - Rodrick Fisher (4star)
2018 - Drue Jackson (4star)
2018 - Max Borghi (3 star, but best RB from Colorado)
2017 - Jamire Calvin (4 star)

So here we have 5 guys who are solid upper tier talent caliber players at the skill positions. QB / RB/ 3 WR (need 1 more)

That's a VERY good sign. Obviously, we need a lot coming from the 2019 class but you can see that the necessary recruiting gap is closing., and we need a lot of 3 stars to emerge as high caliber, but we are closing the gap.

Now if we had 9 4 stars every year that for 3 classes would produce 27 4 stars for the 22 slots. And that's just sort of how far behind we actually really are. Obviously, some don't work out and that's why being 5 over for the 22 slots would be quite the blessing, but you should get the idea.

Now obviously your continual stupidity regarding the 2014 class comes through.

I've seen Taylor Comfort play. If you actually cared about the team and watched the team you would know that he was making a lot of strides this spring and the DL coach spoke highly of him.



but of course he wasn't the only one contributing from the 2014 class


Keith Harrington is as well.

But as far as closing the gap on the Huskies we are inching our way forward as highlighted by our most recent class with great players like Fisher, Borghi, and Cooper which form the nucleus of a triple class on husky striking distance level. Obviously, we will need more and to keep building, but we are putting the pieces together.

There are kids today who are now in high school entering their Senior year and they have seen WSU have winning seasons their ENTIRE high school career.

And all of that has an impression on their decision to come play for a school

That's why this year we got the Best QB from the State of Utah, the best RB from the state of colorado and arguably one of the best WR from the state of Washington.

We are proving to kids that you can win at Washington State.

When Wulff was here he had no name, no pedigree, no bowl games to show people. Nobody knew who he was and all people knew was WSU was a doormat.

What people know WSU for today is a team that has had 3 winning seasons, beat USC 2 out of the last 3 times, Oregon 3 years in a row, and Stanford two years in a row, and has the all time Pac-12 leading passer.

That's a world of difference, and that helps us close the gap. And by consistently building and adding players every year of higher and higher caliber the talent gap closes and the series becomes a fair endeavor, and honestly one where the game will be extremely competitive, but until that gap closes with both teams having good coaches the game will always go to the team with the talent / resources. Pretty much always.

A classic example of WSU beating a team with vastly more talent after building a solid cohesive unit of talent is the Holiday Bowl in 2003 against Texas.

Texas under Mack Brown was LOADED with talent. They had the heisman trophy winner with Ricky Williams a few years prior, are the flagship school of one of the RICHEST talent beds in the country and MASSIVE amounts of money.

And yet we kicked their ass. Why?

Because we had good coaching, but they had good coaching too. Mack Brown would go on to win a national title just a few years later.

But we were on our 3rd year of 10 wins, and we had Seniors

D.D. Achalou
Jason David
Erik Coleman
Kegel
etc.

the year before we had Gesser, Trufant etc. etc. you get the idea.

It took Mike Price 9 years to reach the rose bowl the 1st time

and it took 13 years for him to build the talent and roster structure to win 10 games for 3 seasons.

Leach currently has 3 winning seasons in a row for us in 6 years which means he is progressing quicker than Mike Price did and if he can keep it up there will be another breakout as the fruits of a better program start to mature.

The talent gap with the huskies will close and they will get theirs. That's why I don't care as much as others about that game. I totally want to win it..especially when we are so close to going to the championship, but I am a big picture thinker and someone who understands that the huskies just happen to finally get a good coach. It sucks, but that's the uphill final step we have to climb and that takes more program building.

If it was Sark or Willingham we are in easy, but not with a decent coach that knows what to do. Who knows what might happen in the future. Petersen could get hired by somebody massive next year offering like 10 million a year. That could happen just we start to hit our stride and then the huskies panic and fire who they hired sending them in an oregon like tailspin. Who knows, but until we have some luck on our side we have to keep adding and growing and building as a program so head to head the matchup is as even as it gets. And as history has shown. When things are even we will win about even the time.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

due for a good season? great analysis. cristobal is not much of a head coach as time will tell

When I say that they are due, they have too much talent to be as mediocre as they've been the last couple years. Plus, with Herbert back in the lineup, they crushed an Arizona team that had been on a roll. They did lose to BSU in the Vegas Bowl and that is a good reason for your skepticism. I don't think that the ducks are going to be great this year, but I could see them finishing 9-3 this year. Their opening three games are softer than the down on a duck's belly. 2-10 Bowling Green, FCS Portland State and 2-10 SJSU looks like a setup for some confidence building. They don't have to play USC from the south and they beat Cal, OSU, Arizona and Utah last year. If they can repeat that and ding us like I expect, they only need one more win out of Stanford, UCLA, ASU and UW to get to 9-3. Only two of those are teams that are expected to be particularly good in 2018.

Don't sleep on the Ducks. I don't think that they are going to be all that great, but they have the schedule and the athletes to have a good run if Cristobal doesn't suck.

 

[Cougatron]

When I say that they are due, they have too much talent to be as mediocre as they've been the last couple years. Plus, with Herbert back in the lineup, they crushed an Arizona team that had been on a roll. They did lose to BSU in the Vegas and that is a good reason for your skepticism. I don't think that the ducks are going to be great this year, but I could see them finishing 9- this year. Their opening three games are softer than the down on a duck's belly. 2-10 Bowling Green, FCS Portland State and 2-10 SJSU looks like a setup for some confidence building. They don't have to play USC from the south and they beat Cal, OSU, Arizona and Utah last year. If they can repeat that and ding us like I expect, they only need one more win out of Stanford, UCLA, ASU and UW to get to 9-3. Only two of those are teams that are expected to be particularly good in 2018.

Don't sleep on the Ducks. I don't think that they are going to be all that great, but they have the schedule and the athletes to have a good run if Cristobal doesn't suck.

I wonder about them. Seeing what Scott Frost did at UCF and watching the Nebraska spring game it's clear he was the magic combined with Kelly that took them to their highest heights.

I am unsure about the Ducks. I honestly think that Jim Leavitt is the best assistant they have. They poached him from Colorado, poached Maestro and Salavaea from us. I mean it basically is a poached hodgepodge. Will it gel? I dunno.

looking at spring games UCLA looks like a terrible version of Oregon and Oregon likes like a shell of its former self. They have talent, but it is missing the magic spark that I used to see from them.

I think they are a 7-9 win team at BEST (which would shock me). and quite possibly a 5 to 7 win team more than likely. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they win 5 games and fall flat on their face.

 

[Cougsocal]

I think I am quite thorough in my assessments. I typically look at a large scope of factors around assessments and make comparisons on the statistical and historical evaluation and compare and contrast that against similar instances. I then back up my assertions with the research.

It’s very different from “I feel ______ “. I do not go by gut or emotions to me there is only facts and realities.

History and Statistics do not lie. They don’t warp things with sentimental thoughts or nostalgia. Only people do that.

When people are working on an engine. They may pray give it a good kick and hope that it turns over. They may sit and reminisce of how the car worked before and imagined it to be perfectly working better than any engine ever.

I want to know every part, every piston, the amount of fuel and oil, the faults of the design, the details regarding the combustion and efficiency, when it worked when it didn’t and I don’t care how people feel about it. I care if it works or it doesn’t.

Tron,

No one would complain that your arguments are not thorough. Unlike most, you also take the time to research your positions. But your arguments tend to be so one-sided that when one reads them your eyes tend to glaze over. As a result, they lose much of their effect. You should try to use some guile, giving a little with the plan of taking a lot. As someone who argues for a living, the high school debate approach to argument isn’t very effective. The most effective arguments are disarming in appearance but savage in their effect, i.e. they give a hand, but consume the entire arm.

In any argument, on a thread related to recent Apple Cup woes, which calls Jim Walton “a loser” creates a “losing your audience” problem. Love him, hate him, the man won 3 of 4 from the Huskies, when the Huskies were “the” dominant Pac-10 team, knocking them out of 2 straight Rose Bowls, when it was the pinnacle of college football. And in Cougar lore, he was a “Rico Tipton” from making it 4 straight. If you do not give Jim Walton that, you lose the audience, just like the inability to concede that Mike Leach can coach the hell out of the X and Os, seriously undermines any complaint about the man.

“History and Statistics do not lie. They don’t warp things with sentimental thoughts or nostalgia. Only people do that.”

Do you really think anybody believes that? History and statistics are all relative. For Canadians, the War of 1812 is a war that formed a nation, as they repulsed the opportunistic, land grabbing, American invaders, intent on owning the entire continent while the British were away fighting Napoleon. Where is that in any American history book? In the “wrong” hands statistics misrepresent/lie all the time. Only in the hands of an unbiased, impartial clinician are they not subject to abuse. You or I, Ed, Flat, Crazy et al are not that. So please stop the claims of intellectual purity, we all have biases, viewpoints and agendas.

Let’s simply enjoy the banter.

 

[Loyal Coug]

Tron,

No one would complain that your arguments are not thorough. Unlike most, you also take the time to research your positions. But your arguments tend to be so one-sided that when one reads them your eyes tend to glaze over. As a result, they lose much of their effect. You should try to use some guile, giving a little with the plan of taking a lot. As someone who argues for a living, the high school debate approach to argument isn’t very effective. The most effective arguments are disarming in appearance but savage in their effect, i.e. they give a hand, but consume the entire arm.

In any argument, on a thread related to recent Apple Cup woes, which calls Jim Walton “a loser” creates a “losing your audience” problem. Love him, hate him, the man won 3 of 4 from the Huskies, when the Huskies were “the” dominant Pac-10 team, knocking them out of 2 straight Rose Bowls, when it was the pinnacle of college football. And in Cougar lore, he was a “Rico Tipton” from making it 4 straight. If you do not give Jim Walton that, you lose the audience, just like the inability to concede that Mike Leach can coach the hell out of the X and Os, seriously undermines any complaint about the man.

“History and Statistics do not lie. They don’t warp things with sentimental thoughts or nostalgia. Only people do that.”

Do you really think anybody believes that? History and statistics are all relative. For Canadians, the War of 1812 is a war that formed a nation, as they repulsed the opportunistic, land grabbing, American invaders, intent on owning the entire continent while the British were away fighting Napoleon. Where is that in any American history book? In the “wrong” hands statistics misrepresent/lie all the time. Only in the hands of an unbiased, impartial clinician are they not subject to abuse. You or I, Ed, Flat, Crazy et al are not that. So please stop the claims of intellectual purity, we all have biases, viewpoints and agendas.

Let’s simply enjoy the banter.

Well said. And Tron, do yourself a favor and get rid of the little footer pictures. And change your avatar too. It just makes you appear childish. CPW has been gone for 7 years. Walden left 31 years ago. And while he re-appeared, for all practical purposes he has been gone again for 7 years also. And he gave over $100,000 to WSU Athletics, which no other coach (or AD) can say. So let them lie. It is 2018.

 

[Cougatron]

Tron,

No one would complain that your arguments are not thorough. Unlike most, you also take the time to research your positions. But your arguments tend to be so one-sided that when one reads them your eyes tend to glaze over. As a result, they lose much of their effect. You should try to use some guile, giving a little with the plan of taking a lot. As someone who argues for a living, the high school debate approach to argument isn’t very effective. The most effective arguments are disarming in appearance but savage in their effect, i.e. they give a hand, but consume the entire arm.

In any argument, on a thread related to recent Apple Cup woes, which calls Jim Walton “a loser” creates a “losing your audience” problem. Love him, hate him, the man won 3 of 4 from the Huskies, when the Huskies were “the” dominant Pac-10 team, knocking them out of 2 straight Rose Bowls, when it was the pinnacle of college football. And in Cougar lore, he was a “Rico Tipton” from making it 4 straight. If you do not give Jim Walton that, you lose the audience, just like the inability to concede that Mike Leach can coach the hell out of the X and Os, seriously undermines any complaint about the man.

“History and Statistics do not lie. They don’t warp things with sentimental thoughts or nostalgia. Only people do that.”

Do you really think anybody believes that? History and statistics are all relative. For Canadians, the War of 1812 is a war that formed a nation, as they repulsed the opportunistic, land grabbing, American invaders, intent on owning the entire continent while the British were away fighting Napoleon. Where is that in any American history book? In the “wrong” hands statistics misrepresent/lie all the time. Only in the hands of an unbiased, impartial clinician are they not subject to abuse. You or I, Ed, Flat, Crazy et al are not that. So please stop the claims of intellectual purity, we all have biases, viewpoints and agendas.

Let’s simply enjoy the banter.

My arguments are one sided because that’s the side of truth, and while it may make people uncomfortable to hear it. It is the truth, supported by facts, supported by statistics.

Walden didn’t win a single game his last season in college coaching. That is a fact.

Walden also posted more losing seasons than winning seasons. That is a fact.

Walden’s first apple cup win. 3-7-1 season
In 85 he beat a 7-5 husky team and finished with 4 wins.

The truth is Walden lost more than he won. And he won 3 Apple Cups in 9 seasons.

Here’s the huskies record in all 9 of Walden’s seasons

Huskies during Walden

1978 Huskies Record 7-4 (loss)
1979 Huskies Record 9-3 (loss)
1980 Huskies Record 9-3 (loss)
1981 Huskies Record 10-2 (loss)
1982 Huskies Record 10-2 (win)
1983 Huskies Record 8-4 (win)
1984 Huskies Record 11-1 (loss)
1985 Huskies Record 7-5 (win)
1986 Huskies Record 8-3-1 (loss)

2 of Walden’s 3 wins were actually during the bottom of husky team performance over the decade.

And 1 was at their upper performance in 1982.

During that span the Huskies never posted a losing season.

Yet Walden posted a losing season 6 out of 9 times regardless of how the Huskies performed.

Conclusions: Jim Walden won 1/3 of the Apple cups he coached in beating the lower performance husky teams in the decade twice, and one time beating the huskies when they were at the upper performance.

His legacy is grossly over exaggerated (mostly due to his own jawing and fools that believe him)

He set the stage for WSU having an attitude of being a crappy team and program but “it’s okay if we beat the huskies occasionally when they are having a down year” Which is a poor attitude and detrimental to building sustained program success.

He was run out of the state of Iowa and came back to the only place dumb enough to take him in and let him run his mouth.

He lobbied for Paul Wulff who set the program back tremendously.

He publically lobbied for Wulff not to be fired and said it was a mistake and defended Wulff among one of the worst spans in program history.

He tried to undermine Leach when he first got here yapping to the press about “he wouldn’t do things this way and Leach is hurting his profession, and other various stupid things that once again...hurt the program as a whole.

Jim Walden had repeated behavior that hurt the program.

- losing more than winning and thinking it’s okay as long as you win 1/3 Apple Cups. (Wrong attitude for program building/success)

- getting run out of town after not winning a game but somehow thinking that he should tell a program who to hire

- defending that person despite the poorest performance of all time for the program. Chastising critics and administration for wanting to go another direction after said performance

- throwing dirt on the new guy as he just walks in the door instead of supporting the team and new coach

F.uck Jim Walden. F.uck him F.uck his blowhard has been never was “legacy” the day he is dead in the dirt is the day WSU can move forward.

 

[Glad Cougar]

I'm guessing I was probably around your age when Walden's Cougar teams knocked UW out of the Rose Bowl back-to-back years, the second one in Husky Stadium after the Dawgs & their fans were convinced there would be payback from the year before. All I know is that I was extremely proud of the team for winning those two games as heavy underdogs.

And I was ecstatic.

It doesn't refute your facts or arguments to say that those two Apple Cup wins were great moments in Cougar football history that made a lot of Cougar fans very happy. I, for one, don't feel like diminishing the accomplishment.

Glad Cougar

 

[Cougatron]

Well said. And Tron, do yourself a favor and get rid of the little footer pictures. And change your avatar too. It just makes you appear childish. CPW has been gone for 7 years. Walden left 31 years ago. And while he re-appeared, for all practical purposes he has been gone again for 7 years also. And he gave over $100,000 to WSU Athletics, which no other coach (or AD) can say. So let them lie. It is 2018.

He should give all of his salary to WSU athletics and write a letter of apology.

Loyal I will not remove the pictures until I feel the program is safely guarded away from letting fools run it into the dirt over and over again. The damage that Walden/Wulff and their "followers" have done to WSU athletics over the years is unforgivable.

You see loyal I was at this game.



And I watched. Seething. The whole game. You know what I thought about. How we could have got James Franklin (His wife is a WSU grad, and I KNOW he would have taken the job), but the old guard like Walden wanted their boy Wulff.

I told my Wife that the program was dead, but as soon as this sham has run its course we were going to come back and be winners again and this time it would be for good.

9 years later I was at this game too.



And the pictures will stay as long as there are people who want to see us go back to that first game. NEVER AGAIN.

 

[Loyal Coug]

He should give all of his salary to WSU athletics and write a letter of apology.

Loyal I will not remove the pictures until I feel the program is safely guarded away from letting fools run it into the dirt over and over again. The damage that Walden/Wulff and their "followers" have done to WSU athletics over the years is unforgivable.

You see loyal I was at this game.

View embedded media

And I watched. Seething. The whole game. You know what I thought about. How we could have got James Franklin (His wife is a WSU grad, and I KNOW he would have taken the job), but the old guard like Walden wanted their boy Wulff.

I told my Wife that the program was dead, but as soon as this sham has run its course we were going to come back and be winners again and this time it would be for good.



And the pictures will stay as long as there are people who want to see us go back to that first game. NEVER AGAIN.

Yeah well I was at that first game too. I was also at THIS game (link below). Great memory kicking Rodney Peete's a$$. Hilarious article.

http://articles.latimes.com/1986-10-12/sports/sp-3203_1_city-boys

And based upon your comment above, you can take your childish pictures down. No one wants us to go back to that first game.

 

[Cougatron]

Yeah well I was at that first game too. I was also at THIS game (link below). Great memory kicking Rodney Peete's a$$. Hilarious article.

http://articles.latimes.com/1986-10-12/sports/sp-3203_1_city-boys

And based upon your comment above, you can take your childish pictures down. No one wants us to go back to that first game.

Great 3-7-1 Season too.

And yes there are people that do want that on this very board who consistently try to throw dirt on the program DESPITE it winning. DESPITE it being a success. They still want to be negative, and yet during the Wulff years Wulff could do nooooo wrong. The days those people are dead in the dirt is also another day WSU moves forward.

 

[Loyal Coug]

Great 3-7-1 Season too.

And yes there are people that do want that on this very board who consistently try to throw dirt on the program DESPITE it winning. DESPITE it being a success. They still want to be negative, and yet during the Wulff years Wulff could do nooooo wrong. The days those people are dead in the dirt is also another day WSU moves forward.

Nice. "The day those people are dead in the dirt". Are you 5 years old?

Tell you what - I'll work on posting a poll after lunch. Let's see - something like this:

Q: What do you want for WSU Football?

A1. I want to go back to 2 and 3 win seasons with opponents taking a knee at halftime.
A2. No, I don't want that. I want continued success.
A3. What a stupid poll. Grow up and get a life.
A4. Baynes and the Celtics are on at 5:30 today. Nothing else matters.

That look OK?

 

[Coug95man2]

Nice. "The day those people are dead in the dirt". Are you 5 years old?

Tell you what - I'll work on posting a poll after lunch. Let's see - something like this:

Q: What do you want for WSU Football?

A1. I want to go back to 2 and 3 win seasons with opponents taking a knee at halftime.
A2. No, I don't want that. I want continued success.
A3. What a stupid poll. Grow up and get a life.
A4. Baynes and the Celtics are on at 5:30 today. Nothing else matters.

That look OK?

Please no.

 

[Cougatron]

Nice. "The day those people are dead in the dirt". Are you 5 years old?

Tell you what - I'll work on posting a poll after lunch. Let's see - something like this:

Q: What do you want for WSU Football?

A1. I want to go back to 2 and 3 win seasons with opponents taking a knee at halftime.
A2. No, I don't want that. I want continued success.
A3. What a stupid poll. Grow up and get a life.
A4. Baynes and the Celtics are on at 5:30 today. Nothing else matters.

That look OK?

Here's a better poll.

Which posters come on here regularly and are negative and throw dirt on the program despite its success and defended Paul Wulff constantly.?

A1. CougEd
A2. It's pretty obvious
A3. Why would someone act like that.
A4. Because he's a f*cking idiot who would rather see the program be bad than enjoy its success.

That's the truth loyal, and honestly, people that are "supporters" of the program. Who are fake and not supporters of the program and people who hold the program back from success should go. Go to some other board, drop dead. I don't care what happens to them, but this is a place for people who support the program. Not butthurt Paul Wulff fanboy pretend fan Waldenites.

I don't like those people and I never will, because THEY are the reason the Cougs have been bad. Because THEY support people who hurt the program. Paul Wulff hurt the program. Never apologized for it. Walden hurt the program. PERIOD. They did. And I don't like people that

A) Are un-remorseful for doing damage to the program
B) Spread their idiocy regarding what the program should / shouldn't do when they have proven themselves to be stupid.
C) Aren't committed to making the program better and enjoying its success.

 

[CougEd]

2 of Walden’s 3 wins were actually during the bottom of husky team performance over the decade.

And 1 was at their upper performance in 1982.

During that span the Huskies never posted a losing season.

Yet Walden posted a losing season 6 out of 9 times regardless of how the Huskies performed.

Conclusions: Jim Walden won 1/3 of the Apple cups he coached in beating the lower performance husky teams in the decade twice, and one time beating the huskies when they were at the upper performance.
.[/QUOTE]
Tron...before I go into what the discussion was about I don't want to assume what you are saying. What does this mean? "Jim Walden won 1/3 of the Apple cups he coached in beating the lower performance husky teams in the decade twice, and one time beating the huskies when they were at the upper performance." Which teams are you referring to?
Thanks in advance.

 

[CougEd]

And the pictures will stay as long as there are people who want to see us go back to that first game. NEVER AGAIN.[/QUOTE]

Tron, you know what you don't get? You can't separate anyone who supported THE PROGRAM with Wulff and Walden as the stewards and the program. I know what Walden did for the program. I appreciate the good things he did for the program. I will be more than happy to say I wish there are subjects he spoke about where he would have kept his mouth shut. But that is Walden.

What you can't seem to understand is WSU football for people like me goes WAY deeper than Walden, Leach, Wulff, Price, Doba, Sweeney or anyone else. They are simply the custodians. And I will support the program whether they are 3-9 or 9-3. And when Leach does something I don't like I will comment on it. As I did with Raveling back in the day, Walden, Price and any other coach I followed. So I am not going anywhere. Nor are people "like me". So I guess you will have your same Paul Wulff pic on your signature line for as long as this board is around.

Trust me, there is no one who wants us to go back to the Cal game, the USC game, or even the Portland State game. Crap happens. But you can continue to rail on two people that haven't been around for 7 and 31 one years respectively.

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

Let's all try looking forward...not dwelling on the past. We'll never agree on some of the issues, so what's the point?

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

By the way, if anyone is a Wazzu fan believing we will win at least 50% of the Apple Cups in the future, you'll be sorely disappointed.

But the fun of being a Wazzu football fan is getting so much pleasure out of the 30% of games we beat a team we have no business ever beating (based on their talent, support, facilities, etc. advantage). I am at peace knowing we won't be 50/50. Neither will Spain or Serbia beat the USA in Olympic basketball half the time. But the times that they do, I am sure that is profoundly satisfying.

 

[Cougsocal]

My arguments are one sided because that’s the side of truth, and while it may make people uncomfortable to hear it. It is the truth, supported by facts, supported by statistics.

Walden didn’t win a single game his last season in college coaching. That is a fact.

Walden also posted more losing seasons than winning seasons. That is a fact.

Walden’s first apple cup win. 3-7-1 season
In 85 he beat a 7-5 husky team and finished with 4 wins.

The truth is Walden lost more than he won. And he won 3 Apple Cups in 9 seasons.

Here’s the huskies record in all 9 of Walden’s seasons

Huskies during Walden

1978 Huskies Record 7-4 (loss)
1979 Huskies Record 9-3 (loss)
1980 Huskies Record 9-3 (loss)
1981 Huskies Record 10-2 (loss)
1982 Huskies Record 10-2 (win)
1983 Huskies Record 8-4 (win)
1984 Huskies Record 11-1 (loss)
1985 Huskies Record 7-5 (win)
1986 Huskies Record 8-3-1 (loss)

2 of Walden’s 3 wins were actually during the bottom of husky team performance over the decade.

And 1 was at their upper performance in 1982.

During that span the Huskies never posted a losing season.

Yet Walden posted a losing season 6 out of 9 times regardless of how the Huskies performed.

Conclusions: Jim Walden won 1/3 of the Apple cups he coached in beating the lower performance husky teams in the decade twice, and one time beating the huskies when they were at the upper performance.

His legacy is grossly over exaggerated (mostly due to his own jawing and fools that believe him)

He set the stage for WSU having an attitude of being a crappy team and program but “it’s okay if we beat the huskies occasionally when they are having a down year” Which is a poor attitude and detrimental to building sustained program success.

He was run out of the state of Iowa and came back to the only place dumb enough to take him in and let him run his mouth.

He lobbied for Paul Wulff who set the program back tremendously.

He publically lobbied for Wulff not to be fired and said it was a mistake and defended Wulff among one of the worst spans in program history.

He tried to undermine Leach when he first got here yapping to the press about “he wouldn’t do things this way and Leach is hurting his profession, and other various stupid things that once again...hurt the program as a whole.

Jim Walden had repeated behavior that hurt the program.

- losing more than winning and thinking it’s okay as long as you win 1/3 Apple Cups. (Wrong attitude for program building/success)

- getting run out of town after not winning a game but somehow thinking that he should tell a program who to hire

- defending that person despite the poorest performance of all time for the program. Chastising critics and administration for wanting to go another direction after said performance

- throwing dirt on the new guy as he just walks in the door instead of supporting the team and new coach

F.uck Jim Walden. F.uck him F.uck his blowhard has been never was “legacy” the day he is dead in the dirt is the day WSU can move forward.

Jim Walden squandered too much talent with hard practices on fuzzy St. Helens' concrete. His teams needed a MASH unit, before games. Trainers and players grumbled that they were spent before they ever played. He couldn't hold a candle to Leach on the Xs and Os front. He also destroyed the Rose Bowl chances of his best team with the Rypien debacle. But the man made grown Huskies cry, literally. Your to young to remember the pandemonium over the 1982 loss. For allowing me to witness that alone, I have fondness for him. His teams played the Huskies during an era when they went to 3 Rose Bowls and an Orange in a 7 year stretch, that would have been 5 Rose Bowls and an Orange, but for our Cougars. So your "the truth" is a bit of a disingenuous ... isn't it. That's Pac-10 dominance isn't it, Mr. Truth. Yes, he kept the Huskies out of both the 83 and 84 Rose Bowls. So not only is your "truth" disingenuous, you flat out got your facts wrong too.

Frankly, my fondness for the man has grown primarily from witnessing how ill prepared the Cougs have been for the Apple Cup during the Leach era. It has re-instilled the importance of the game in my psyche (Lost when Don James quit). Humiliation does that. Walden's teams lost to them only once by more than 3 touchdowns, his first year. Leach led Cougs have lost to them by a combined 162 - 54 the last 4 times out, and we needed some late scoring to make it that close, 37 of those points were of the 4th quarter, Wullfian moral victory, variety. Here's another stat for you: being 3-6 against the Dawgs is far better than 1-5, particularly when 4 of the Ls were utter beat downs.

Frankly, I'm to the point that I'd prefer a 3-7-1 season and an Apple Cup win, right now, over than another second tier bowl.

Yes, Walden's temper tantrum over the very necessary firing of "numb nuts" was stupid beyond belief. Only a Paul's Mom would think he deserved another year. But it did help me figure out why Walden was able to signed the biggest recruit in school history by a country mile, to a team that was running the veer!!!! He is, and was, loyal to his players, like Wulff, to an absolute fault. They are his kids. There is no other rational explanation. It also tends to explain how he seem to recruit well above his weight. So I cut him some slack.

But then again, Jim Walden didn't insult the love of my life, which it seems he did with you. by insulting Mike Leach.

 

[Cougatron]

Frankly, I'm to the point that I'd prefer a 3-7-1 season and an Apple Cup win, right now, over than another second tier bowl.

Yes, Walden's temper tantrum over the very necessary firing of "numb nuts" was stupid beyond belief. Only a Paul's Mom would think he deserved another year. But it did help me figure out why Walden was able to signed the biggest recruit in school history by a country mile, to a team that was running the veer!!!! He is, and was, loyal to his players, like Wulff, to an absolute fault. They are his kids. There is no other rational explanation. It also tends to explain how he seem to recruit well above his weight. So I cut him some slack.

But then again, Jim Walden didn't insult the love of my life, which it seems he did with you. by insulting Mike Leach.

"I'd prefer a 3-7-1 season and an Apple Cup win" - is exactly the LOSER mentality that has plagued WSU football since Walden. That mentality is exactly why the disparity in the program has existed, why the program never grew while others did.

Here's a fact for you. Since the beginning of the Walden Era do you want to know how many losing seasons the cougs have had?

24. 24 Losing seasons. From 1978 to 2018. Over a 40 year span. 24 losing seasons.

know how many Apple Cup victories? 12. over a 40 year span.

This includes all the highs of the Rose Bowl runs under Price. It includes all the "fond memories" you have of walden.

Just 16 winning seasons and Just 12 apple cups out of 40 years.

30% Apple Cup Victories and .400 win percentage.

Know what Walden's tenure was?

.33% Apple Cup Victories and a .430 win percentage.

For the last 40 years we have lived under the "Walden Standard". It's caused immense damage to the program as a whole over the years.

Leach is reversing it, and the first step is winning more than you lose overall. Leach has had 50% winning seasons and 4/6 bowl appearances. That's not normal. That's way above the norm.

If you long for us to be bad and occasionally beat the huskies.... you are in the mindset that has plagued the program for the last 40 years.

I don't want us to be a national joke. A national doormat. I can see that you are quite happy with that mentality as long as you beat the huskies 1/3 of the time, and that has been exactly the problem for 40 years.

I'd like to beat the huskies 50%+ of the time, but you will never get there with 24 out of 40 losing seasons. That has to be corrected first, and that's exactly why I love Mike Leach, and why Walden hates him.

Because Mike Leach can do what Walden could never do. Build the program and win more than he loses.

As to the Apple Cup if we continue on our current trajectory that will change, and when it does...there will be a lot more Apple Cup victories than 12 out of 40 years. But you won't get there being a loser most of the time. That's not how building a successful program works.

 

[Cougatron]

By the way, if anyone is a Wazzu fan believing we will win at least 50% of the Apple Cups in the future, you'll be sorely disappointed.

But the fun of being a Wazzu football fan is getting so much pleasure out of the 30% of games we beat a team we have no business ever beating (based on their talent, support, facilities, etc. advantage). I am at peace knowing we won't be 50/50. Neither will Spain or Serbia beat the USA in Olympic basketball half the time. But the times that they do, I am sure that is profoundly satisfying.

I disagree. If we are within a reasonable program equivalency we will win and that's the whole point I am making is that in order to get there we have to build up the program to where there is parity.

To give you of a rivalry which transitioned like that I will give you Michigan State.

Michigan vs Michigan State
Michigan has 69 wins to Michigan State's 36 wins.

Obviously a very lopsided in state rivalry for many many years.

But since 2008 Michigan State has won 8 out of 10.

What happened? What changed? Well Michigan State hired a good coach that's step 1. Step 2, Was the B1G revenue being an equalizer (like what we are seeing the Pac-12 bring) 3. Michigan State got into program building before hiring NIck Saban who really helped get the Michigan State team

Michigan State now has had 9 seasons of winning and yes those are translating into wins in the rivalry, but for WSU who was so far behind we are just now in the early stages of catchup.

If WSU has a decade of winning will the Apple Cup series start to turn? Absolutely. Because the programs talent and the Pac-12 distributions make it a level playing field.

I look at the big picture for WSU over the long haul. If WSU has a decade of straight winning seasons look for the Apple Cup series to recalibrate evenly. It will happen. That's why I am so adamant about continuing to build the program through winning seasons. The recruiting gets easier and thus the Apple Cup gets easier.

 

[Cougatron]

And the pictures will stay as long as there are people who want to see us go back to that first game. NEVER AGAIN.

Tron, you know what you don't get? You can't separate anyone who supported THE PROGRAM with Wulff and Walden as the stewards and the program. I know what Walden did for the program. I appreciate the [/QUOTE]

No Ed. It's YOU who can't separate the "Stewards" who crashed the ship into the ground and admit that they were drunk at the wheel.

The Program is not Wulff its not Walden. It's not Leach either. The Program is the Program.

YOU are the one who is clinging to Wulff and Walden as if the Stewards are the program. They are not. They are people who hurt the program. Not helped it progress. They held it back. When that clicks in your brain, when you realize it is when YOU can move forward too. Until then you are clining to people who didn't do positive things for the program, and thus just deadweight holding it back.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Tron, we all know that it was time for Walden to go at the end of the 1986 season, but your take on Walden is skewed way too far to the "he sucked" end of the spectrum. Some of your numbers on Walden are right but what you are failing to see because of your hard-on for Wulff and Walden is the fact that even though Walden was a blow-hard fool who talked a bigger game than he could bring overall, he brought a swagger back to WSU and he made people believe that we had a right to expect to beat the mutts and compete in the Pac-10. He raised the expectations of the program overall and he led WSU to bowl eligible records in 3 out of 4 seasons at one point. Like him or not, but he had a positive influence on the program overall.

You say that we've had only had 16 winning seasons in the 40 years since Walden started at WSU. Do you know the stat when you look at the 18 years before Walden started? It's 4 out of 18 years. We won 4 Apple Cups in that same 18 year span. So, while you are bitching about the "Walden Standard", the fact is that it's much higher than what had become standard in the roughly two decades before him. You can talk about how you are so objective and look only at facts without letting emotion getting in the way, but you're full of sh!t just like the rest of us. You can hate Walden all you want for his childish reaction to Wulff getting fired, but never pretend that you have any clue at the positive impacts the man had. Again, he had worn out his welcome and was not a "Great" coach, but he was exactly the coach that WSU needed in 1978.

 

[Loyal Coug]

Tron, we all know that it was time for Walden to go at the end of the 1986 season, but your take on Walden is skewed way too far to the "he sucked" end of the spectrum. Some of your numbers on Walden are right but what you are failing to see because of your hard-on for Wulff and Walden is the fact that even though Walden was a blow-hard fool who talked a bigger game than he could bring overall, he brought a swagger back to WSU and he made people believe that we had a right to expect to beat the mutts and compete in the Pac-10. He raised the expectations of the program overall and he led WSU to bowl eligible records in 3 out of 4 seasons at one point. Like him or not, but he had a positive influence on the program overall.

You say that we've had only had 16 winning seasons in the 40 years since Walden started at WSU. Do you know the stat when you look at the 18 years before Walden started? It's 4 out of 18 years. We won 4 Apple Cups in that same 18 year span. So, while you are bitching about the "Walden Standard", the fact is that it's much higher than what had become standard in the roughly two decades before him. You can talk about how you are so objective and look only at facts without letting emotion getting in the way, but you're full of sh!t just like the rest of us. You can hate Walden all you want for his childish reaction to Wulff getting fired, but never pretend that you have any clue at the positive impacts the man had. Again, he had worn out his welcome and was not a "Great" coach, but he was exactly the coach that WSU needed in 1978.

Spot on, Flat. Let's not forget that Jim was our 4th coach in 4 years. He brought stability, he brought the Apple Cup (and USC) games back to Pullman. He rightfully called out Spokane and their crybaby lack of support. "Wah, we want the games at Jo Albi so we are boycotting Pullman". I sat in the rain with maybe 5,000 fans and watched us beat Cal in 1984 to secure our 3rd winning season in 4 years. And yeah he called out the fans for their lack of support. So what - he was right.

The 1982 Apple Cup was our first win in what, 10 years? Then 3 out of 4. Don't think that had ever been done. The '86 USC victory? First win in 29 years. In today's environment we would have gone bowling in '83 and '84.

With Walden's teams you always felt that we had a chance to win.

Now Walden's tenure at Iowa State (he did have some upset wins there too) is 100% irrelevant to WSU in 2018. Walden's patriotic support of Wulff, and subsequent WSU bashing for firing him, were misguided and proven over time to be just wrong. So what. Aside from my lifetime record of perfect decisions, I'm sure we all have made a mistake or two in our lives. Walden's tenure and contributions to WSU and Wulff's tenure are two different and mutually exclusive subjects. It's like bashing Price for Bill Doba's lackluster results. It would be like Texas Tech blaming CML for pretty Cliff's failure down there.

Anyway, no matter how many logical and intelligent posts we make on this subject We are not going to get Tron off his petty soapbox. This is my last post on this subject. And last reply to anything Tron, until he turns his apparently endless energy and time to some other topic that would benefit from his researching prowess. And drops the childish pictures. Peace.

 

[YakiCoug]

Nice. "The day those people are dead in the dirt". Are you 5 years old?

Tell you what - I'll work on posting a poll after lunch. Let's see - something like this:

Q: What do you want for WSU Football?

A1. I want to go back to 2 and 3 win seasons with opponents taking a knee at halftime.
A2. No, I don't want that. I want continued success.
A3. What a stupid poll. Grow up and get a life.
A4. Baynes and the Celtics are on at 5:30 today. Nothing else matters.

That look OK?

Says the sad little hypocrite who threatens other posters with violence and wishes for deadly events to occur in their lives. Alzheimer's assault on your brain sucks, doesn't it?

 

[Loyal Coug]

Says the sad little hypocrite who threatens other posters with violence and wishes for deadly events to occur in their lives. Alzheimer's assault on your brain sucks, doesn't it?

F-you, you little POS.

 

[YakiCoug]

F-you, you little POS.

 

[Cougatron]

Spot on, Flat. Let's not forget that Jim was our 4th coach in 4 years. He brought stability, he brought the Apple Cup (and USC) games back to Pullman. He rightfully called out Spokane and their crybaby lack of support. "Wah, we want the games at Jo Albi so we are boycotting Pullman". I sat in the rain with maybe 5,000 fans and watched us beat Cal in 1984 to secure our 3rd winning season in 4 years. And yeah he called out the fans for their lack of support. So what - he was right.

The 1982 Apple Cup was our first win in what, 10 years? Then 3 out of 4. Don't think that had ever been done. The '86 USC victory? First win in 29 years. In today's environment we would have gone bowling in '83 and '84.

With Walden's teams you always felt that we had a chance to win.

Now Walden's tenure at Iowa State (he did have some upset wins there too) is 100% irrelevant to WSU in 2018. Walden's patriotic support of Wulff, and subsequent WSU bashing for firing him, were misguided and proven over time to be just wrong. So what. Aside from my lifetime record of perfect decisions, I'm sure we all have made a mistake or two in our lives. Walden's tenure and contributions to WSU and Wulff's tenure are two different and mutually exclusive subjects. It's like bashing Price for Bill Doba's lackluster results. It would be like Texas Tech blaming CML for pretty Cliff's failure down there.

Anyway, no matter how many logical and intelligent posts we make on this subject We are not going to get Tron off his petty soapbox. This is my last post on this subject. And last reply to anything Tron, until he turns his apparently endless energy and time to some other topic that would benefit from his researching prowess. And drops the childish pictures. Peace.

We won 4 out of 5 apple cups from 2004-2008 after Walden
and we also won 3 out of 4 from 1951-1954 before Walden

Once again illustrating how people think Walden accomplished some amazing feat of winning 3 out of 9 apple cups with 2/3 tenure losing seasons.

The real truth is that older Cougs cling to Walden nostalgia and remember him much better than he actually really was. And to me that does the program a disservice when you hold a 2/3 of the time loser in high regard. No program in the country does that but WSU. No team says he that 1/3 of the time Win guy let's celebrate him and listen to what he has to say. Nobody does that but WSU. If you were to do that at a reputable program they would set the man on fire and kick him down the road, but not WSU. At WSU you can be a hero, and Jim Walden milked that stupidity for all it was worth. 9 years of salary and then almost another decade of "Color Commentary" since 2001-2012. That's insane.

Look if you love WSU football and want it to be good. Stop giving credit just for the sake of Nostalgia because honestly...

 

[YakiCoug]

Ediots extraordinaire yearn for the days of endzone portapotties and a single-wide trailer serving as a press box. If you look closely, you can find Loyal sitting by himself shouting, "Go Cougs!" and women running for their lives.
Dang! Them was the days!

..

We won 4 out of 5 apple cups from 2004-2008 after Walden
and we also won 3 out of 4 from 1951-1954 before Walden

Once again illustrating how people think Walden accomplished some amazing feat of winning 3 out of 9 apple cups with 2/3 tenure losing seasons.

The real truth is that older Cougs cling to Walden nostalgia and remember him much better than he actually really was. And to me that does the program a disservice when you hold a 2/3 of the time loser in high regard. No program in the country does that but WSU. No team says he that 1/3 of the time Win guy let's celebrate him and listen to what he has to say. Nobody does that but WSU. If you were to do that at a reputable program they would set the man on fire and kick him down the road, but not WSU. At WSU you can be a hero, and Jim Walden milked that stupidity for all it was worth. 9 years of salary and then almost another decade of "Color Commentary" since 2001-2012. That's insane.

Look if you love WSU football and want it to be good. Stop giving credit just for the sake of Nostalgia because honestly...

View embedded media

 

[Flatlandcoug]

We won 4 out of 5 apple cups from 2004-2008 after Walden
and we also won 3 out of 4 from 1951-1954 before Walden

Once again illustrating how people think Walden accomplished some amazing feat of winning 3 out of 9 apple cups with 2/3 tenure losing seasons.

The real truth is that older Cougs cling to Walden nostalgia and remember him much better than he actually really was. And to me that does the program a disservice when you hold a 2/3 of the time loser in high regard. No program in the country does that but WSU. No team says he that 1/3 of the time Win guy let's celebrate him and listen to what he has to say. Nobody does that but WSU. If you were to do that at a reputable program they would set the man on fire and kick him down the road, but not WSU. At WSU you can be a hero, and Jim Walden milked that stupidity for all it was worth. 9 years of salary and then almost another decade of "Color Commentary" since 2001-2012. That's insane.

Look if you love WSU football and want it to be good. Stop giving credit just for the sake of Nostalgia because honestly...

View embedded media

I know that you directed this to Loyal in particular, but in case you don't realize it, it's possible to feel that someone had a positive influence and helped a lot while still not being as good as we need to be completely happy. I'm very disappointed in Jim Walden in many ways and I think he's greater in his own mind than where reality lies. His importance to WSU falls somewhere between his "savior of Cougar Football" and your "he sucks balls and is a drag on our past and future". He did have a positive influence on WSU no matter how many times you deny it. Regardless of how you feel, he was instrumental in ending two decades of mediocrity that hung over WSU football. Now, his last two seasons at WSU and his subsequent career at Iowa State clearly show that Walden doesn't have the results that give him the right to claim to know how to coach better than Mike Leach, but a truly objective person who looks at our history doesn't try to reach back 60 years to try and discredit what a guy did 30 years later. If your point is that we only have a coach once every 30 years that is going to get 3 out of 4 against the mutts, all you are really doing is providing evidence that what Walden accomplished was pretty special. Again, I don't believe that Walden was a great coach, but again, he was exactly the guy we needed at the time and he was a key figure in changing the fortune of WSU football.

 

[YakiCoug]

I know that you directed this to Loyal in particular, but in case you don't realize it, it's possible to feel that someone had a positive influence and helped a lot while still not being as good as we need to be completely happy. I'm very disappointed in Jim Walden in many ways and I think he's greater in his own mind than where reality lies. His importance to WSU falls somewhere between his "savior of Cougar Football" and your "he sucks balls and is a drag on our past and future". He did have a positive influence on WSU no matter how many times you deny it. Regardless of how you feel, he was instrumental in ending two decades of mediocrity that hung over WSU football. Now, his last two seasons at WSU and his subsequent career at Iowa State clearly show that Walden doesn't have the results that give him the right to claim to know how to coach better than Mike Leach, but a truly objective person who looks at our history doesn't try to reach back 60 years to try and discredit what a guy did 30 years later. If your point is that we only have a coach once every 30 years that is going to get 3 out of 4 against the mutts, all you are really doing is providing evidence that what Walden accomplished was pretty special. Again, I don't believe that Walden was a great coach, but again, he was exactly the guy we needed at the time and he was a key figure in changing the fortune of WSU football.

Walden did some very good things. Entering the '81 Apple Cup with the Rose Bowl on the line truly was a special moment, no question about it. It is true he couldn't sustain the success, his own doing in many respects, both with players (hell week in '85) and fans (berating Spokane Cougs, although some of it was justified). His contributions as a coach have my respect and gratitude, although his manic support of The Turd diminishes some of his achievements.
I do find it odd that some here get bent out of shape over Tron's assessment/opinion regarding Walden, when their own defensive adherence to Wulff is far more perplexing. Again, you never heard them piss and moan during 9 and 40, but three straight winning seasons has them emitting full streams. It's kind of weird.

 

[fingerdisco]

Life is too short to be hating on a coach from close to 40 years ago, it’s just not worth spending any time on. If someone wants to spend hours researching statistics to justify their hatred of the guy, that’s their prerogative, but that aint how I’d spend my time.

 

[Cougatron]

Life is too short to be hating on a coach from close to 40 years ago, it’s just not worth spending any time on. If someone wants to spend hours researching statistics to justify their hatred of the guy, that’s their prerogative, but that aint how I’d spend my time.

The only reason why my animosity is current is because of the attempted damage (and no surprise he wasn't successful) in throwing dirt on Leach when he walked in the door. That to me is unforgivable and really shows that he didn't want the program to be a success and put his own ego and desire for attention ahead of doing what is best for the program which is cheering and supporting the new coach and hoping that he has success.

Here's the link

"He's taking me somewhere I don't want to go" YEAH WINNING 3 YEARS IN A ROW AND NOT MAKING WSU A LAUGHING STOCK TO THE NATION.

And then of course there was the old blowhard called everyone stupid for criticising Wulff when he went 9-40

If he was just a nice old timer who was pleasant and supportive of the program and team all the time and always hoped for the best and was positive and encouraging as an old vet of the game. I would be fine with him. But that's not what he did. He acted like an entitled assh*ole insulted 99% of the fanbase insulted the new incoming coach.

So to me any shred of good will he might have had is burnt to the ground. I hope he croaks soon. And I mean that. I will be so happy when he croaks. Absolutely ecstatic, because Walden is like the Herpes of Cougar Football.

 

[PeteTheChop]

I hope he croaks soon. And I mean that. I will be so happy when he croaks. Absolutely ecstatic, because Walden is like the Herpes of Cougar Football.

Tron,

I always took any anti-CML sentiments from Coach Walden as simply a public show of support for his protege.

Jim has said many times that he thinks CPW deserved that 5th year and success was just around the corner. And there were a number of "Old Cougs" who agreed (and still do) with Walden and remain fond of him to this day for several reasons:

• Single-handedly led the charge to bring Apple Cup back to Pullman
• Guided WSU to multiple memorable victories over UW and its Hall of Fame coach
• Donated his own $$$ to CAF

You are absolutely correct — Mike Leach has delivered a "New Day" to WSU Football with the likelihood of even greater things to come.

Truly cannot imagine any WSU Fan who isn't excited about that future.

But I can't believe too many of those same people will be openly celebrating the death of a former Cougar coach.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

The only reason why my animosity is current is because of the attempted damage (and no surprise he wasn't successful) in throwing dirt on Leach when he walked in the door. That to me is unforgivable and really shows that he didn't want the program to be a success and put his own ego and desire for attention ahead of doing what is best for the program which is cheering and supporting the new coach and hoping that he has success.

Here's the link

"He's taking me somewhere I don't want to go" YEAH WINNING 3 YEARS IN A ROW AND NOT MAKING WSU A LAUGHING STOCK TO THE NATION.

And then of course there was the old blowhard called everyone stupid for criticising Wulff when he went 9-40

If he was just a nice old timer who was pleasant and supportive of the program and team all the time and always hoped for the best and was positive and encouraging as an old vet of the game. I would be fine with him. But that's not what he did. He acted like an entitled assh*ole insulted 99% of the fanbase insulted the new incoming coach.

So to me any shred of good will he might have had is burnt to the ground. I hope he croaks soon. And I mean that. I will be so happy when he croaks. Absolutely ecstatic, because Walden is like the Herpes of Cougar Football.

I totally understand the animosity towards Walden because of his childish rants in late 2011. Walden deserves contempt for his refusal to accept the situation with anything remotely close to grace. I don't discount his contributions to WSU because of it, but it's a reason why I don't think Leach has any obligation to welcome the man with open arms. I can see why you hate the guy.