COUGS/BEAVS playing cards right while monitoring potential ACC breakup

[M-I-Coug]

WSU, Oregon State playing cards right while monitoring potential ACC breakup​

Jon WilnerJan. 24, 2024 at 10:35 am
It has been 21 weeks since they were completely abandoned, 21 weeks since Oregon State and Washington State became the last two, fighting for survival, revenue and relevance.

On September 1, Stanford and Cal agreed to join the ACC, and the Pac-12 was reduced to a two-team conference starting next summer.

Since being cast adrift, the Beavers and Cougars have played their cards exactly right.

They took the conference and the 10 departing schools to court and won control of the governing board, the rights to the financial assets and help with liabilities.

They entered a football scheduling agreement with the Mountain West.

They did the same with the West Coast Conference for basketball and other sports.

They took the worst poker hand in the history of college sports and did not fold.

“They came out of this in as good of a position as anyone could have imagined,” said an industry source unaffiliated with WSU, OSU or the Pac-12.

the latest from jon wilner​

But over these five roiling months, there is one thing the Beavers and Cougars did not do: They did not commit, to anything or anyone, beyond the next two seasons.

They are free to monitor the landscape, explore their options and prepare for multiple outcomes.

The NCAA grants a two-year waiver to conferences that have been whacked by realignment, allowing the OSU and WSU football programs to exist under the Pac-12 banner in the 2024-25 seasons.

Starting in the fall of 2026, the Beavers and Cougars must relocate or rebuild.

In the current environment, two-and-a-half years feels like a decade.

By 2026, the ACC or Big 12 might have determined its current structure is suboptimal.

By 2026, athletes might be deemed employees by the National Labor Relations Board.

By 2026, the power conferences might have lost a multi-billion dollar antitrust lawsuit.

By 2026, the NCAA might have approved president Charlie Baker’s proposal to create a new football subdivision that requires an eight-figure commitment and divides the sport.

By 2026, the structure of major college football could be undergoing a massive transformation — not only a new poker hand but a different poker game.

The moment the Bay Area schools fled to the ACC and locked themselves into a 12-year agreement with a conference in tumult, the Beavers and Cougars took the opposite approach.

They remained as flexible as possible.

The strategy wasn’t merely to prepare themselves for the opportunity to join a new conference (or subdivision) in the second half of the decade.

It was to create a safety net in case The Great Realignment Experiment of 2023 fails and the Pac-12’s outbound schools are forced to reverse course, either in 2026 or soon after.

Specifically, the Beavers and Cougars wanted enough flexibility to offer a landing spot for Stanford and Cal in case the ACC crumbles.

And the ACC just might crumble.

Florida State has taken the conference to court, challenging the grant of rights agreement that is holding everything together.

If the Seminoles leave, they won’t be alone. Clemson, North Carolina and possibly Virginia will flee, as well.

To this point, neither the SEC or Big Ten has shown any willingness to accept new members. But that silence is designed to avoid a lawsuit. They can’t make a move on, or utter a peep about, the ACC’s most valuable schools while a contract binds them together.

Sponsored​

But if Florida State finds the escape hatch and others follow, then the Big Ten and SEC will swoop in. (North Carolina will be the first pick in the next realignment draft.).

And if Florida State, Clemson, North Carolina and Virginia leave, the ACC would become a carcass.

What then for Stanford and Cal? Do they remain in a conference based on the Atlantic Seaboard that has little media value and second-tier football competition? Or would they return home, join OSU and WSU and rebuild the Pac-12?

That scenario hinges on Florida State’s legal case and the resulting fallout. But even if the Seminoles fail in court, they seem determined to leave, one way or another. And if one goes, others will follow.

At least, that’s the endgame at the heart of the ‘Pac-2’ strategy.

For now, the Beavers and Cougars have more pressing matters:

— They must sign a media rights agreement to broadcast their home football games in 2024-25. We expect that process to conclude in the next few months with exposure, not cash, as the priority. OSU and WSU need to be seen so they are not forgotten.

— They must decide when to fire commissioner George Kliavkoff, whose contract is believed to expire June 30, 2026. To this point, Kliavkoff’s value to the Beavers and Cougars seemingly comes as a presence on the College Football Playoff management committee as the CFP finalizes access and revenue plans for the 2024-25 seasons.

— They must determine the fate of the Pac-12 Networks. The distribution agreements expire this summer, but the infrastructure and studio could exist for years through sale or lease to an entity in need of production support. That could be a media company like Apple or Amazon. Or it could be the outbound Pac-12 schools, who must produce on-campus events for the networks affiliated with their new conferences.

Put another way: The Pac-12 Networks technology will become a huge liability this summer, unless it becomes a valuable asset that generates revenue and helps keep OSU and WSU afloat.

The networks as an asset?

It would be quite the twist to a plot that, for OSU and WSU, has unfolded as smoothly as they could possibly have hoped.

Jon Wilner: jwilner@bayareanewsgroup.com; Jon Wilner has been covering college sports for decades and is an AP top-25 football and basketball voter as well as a Heisman Trophy voter. He was named Beat Writer of the Year in 2013 by the Football Writers Association of America for his coverage of the Pac-12, won first place for feature writing in 2016 in the Associated Press Sports Editors writing contest and is a five-time APSE honoree.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Any former P12 members are allowed to return under a 4/5ths clause for any future revenue for a period of 10 years. This should be written into the bylaws, as well as a "you better back up the brinks truck if you decide to leave the conference without proper notice or due process" clause.

On second thought, Furd and Kal can get 4/5ths in perpetuity - the audacity to do what they did at the 11:59th-hour is imho worse than what they others did. Besides, Stanford is wealthy and Kal doesn't gaf about athletics, so screw 'em both.

 

[95coug]

— They must determine the fate of the Pac-12 Networks. The distribution agreements expire this summer, but the infrastructure and studio could exist for years through sale or lease to an entity in need of production support. That could be a media company like Apple or Amazon. Or it could be the outbound Pac-12 schools, who must produce on-campus events for the networks affiliated with their new conferences.

This touches on something I heard about some time ago, but haven't seen confirmation until now. The Pac-12 network may continue to provide production services for the 10...for a fee, of course.

 

[95coug]

Any former P12 members are allowed to return under a 4/5ths clause for any future revenue for a period of 10 years. This should be written into the bylaws, as well as a "you better back up the brinks truck if you decide to leave the conference without proper notice or due process" clause.

On second thought, Furd and Kal can get 4/5ths in perpetuity - the audacity to do what they did at the 11:59th-hour is imho worse than what they others did. Besides, Stanford is wealthy and Kal doesn't gaf about athletics, so screw 'em both.

4/5? You're far more generous than I.

No media payout to any returning member until they repay the amount they are cashiered for in 2023-24.
Then, half shares for 5 years, or until the total amount paid to the 10 is returned and the conference reserve fund is restored to its pre-realignment level (values adjusted for inflation), whichever is longer.
Once those conditions are satisfied, each school may petition for an additional 1/4 share, with final and binding judgement to be made by a simple majority vote of those institutions who were conference members on August 3, 2024. No more than 5 petitions may be approved in any year, and schools whose petitions are approved are ineligible to submit a petition in the year following that approval.


As for the bylaws....we'll have to see how FSU's case against the ACC goes. Their strongest argument seems to be that the exit fees imposed by the conference are unreasonable. That argument, of course, is undermined by the fact that they agreed to those terms when it was convenient for them.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

WSU, Oregon State playing cards right while monitoring potential ACC breakup​

Jon WilnerJan. 24, 2024 at 10:35 am
It has been 21 weeks since they were completely abandoned, 21 weeks since Oregon State and Washington State became the last two, fighting for survival, revenue and relevance.

On September 1, Stanford and Cal agreed to join the ACC, and the Pac-12 was reduced to a two-team conference starting next summer.

Since being cast adrift, the Beavers and Cougars have played their cards exactly right.

They took the conference and the 10 departing schools to court and won control of the governing board, the rights to the financial assets and help with liabilities.

They entered a football scheduling agreement with the Mountain West.

They did the same with the West Coast Conference for basketball and other sports.

They took the worst poker hand in the history of college sports and did not fold.

“They came out of this in as good of a position as anyone could have imagined,” said an industry source unaffiliated with WSU, OSU or the Pac-12.

the latest from jon wilner​

But over these five roiling months, there is one thing the Beavers and Cougars did not do: They did not commit, to anything or anyone, beyond the next two seasons.

They are free to monitor the landscape, explore their options and prepare for multiple outcomes.

The NCAA grants a two-year waiver to conferences that have been whacked by realignment, allowing the OSU and WSU football programs to exist under the Pac-12 banner in the 2024-25 seasons.

Starting in the fall of 2026, the Beavers and Cougars must relocate or rebuild.

In the current environment, two-and-a-half years feels like a decade.

By 2026, the ACC or Big 12 might have determined its current structure is suboptimal.

By 2026, athletes might be deemed employees by the National Labor Relations Board.

By 2026, the power conferences might have lost a multi-billion dollar antitrust lawsuit.

By 2026, the NCAA might have approved president Charlie Baker’s proposal to create a new football subdivision that requires an eight-figure commitment and divides the sport.

By 2026, the structure of major college football could be undergoing a massive transformation — not only a new poker hand but a different poker game.

The moment the Bay Area schools fled to the ACC and locked themselves into a 12-year agreement with a conference in tumult, the Beavers and Cougars took the opposite approach.

They remained as flexible as possible.

The strategy wasn’t merely to prepare themselves for the opportunity to join a new conference (or subdivision) in the second half of the decade.

It was to create a safety net in case The Great Realignment Experiment of 2023 fails and the Pac-12’s outbound schools are forced to reverse course, either in 2026 or soon after.

Specifically, the Beavers and Cougars wanted enough flexibility to offer a landing spot for Stanford and Cal in case the ACC crumbles.

And the ACC just might crumble.

Florida State has taken the conference to court, challenging the grant of rights agreement that is holding everything together.

If the Seminoles leave, they won’t be alone. Clemson, North Carolina and possibly Virginia will flee, as well.

To this point, neither the SEC or Big Ten has shown any willingness to accept new members. But that silence is designed to avoid a lawsuit. They can’t make a move on, or utter a peep about, the ACC’s most valuable schools while a contract binds them together.

Sponsored​

But if Florida State finds the escape hatch and others follow, then the Big Ten and SEC will swoop in. (North Carolina will be the first pick in the next realignment draft.).

And if Florida State, Clemson, North Carolina and Virginia leave, the ACC would become a carcass.

What then for Stanford and Cal? Do they remain in a conference based on the Atlantic Seaboard that has little media value and second-tier football competition? Or would they return home, join OSU and WSU and rebuild the Pac-12?

That scenario hinges on Florida State’s legal case and the resulting fallout. But even if the Seminoles fail in court, they seem determined to leave, one way or another. And if one goes, others will follow.

At least, that’s the endgame at the heart of the ‘Pac-2’ strategy.

For now, the Beavers and Cougars have more pressing matters:

— They must sign a media rights agreement to broadcast their home football games in 2024-25. We expect that process to conclude in the next few months with exposure, not cash, as the priority. OSU and WSU need to be seen so they are not forgotten.

— They must decide when to fire commissioner George Kliavkoff, whose contract is believed to expire June 30, 2026. To this point, Kliavkoff’s value to the Beavers and Cougars seemingly comes as a presence on the College Football Playoff management committee as the CFP finalizes access and revenue plans for the 2024-25 seasons.

— They must determine the fate of the Pac-12 Networks. The distribution agreements expire this summer, but the infrastructure and studio could exist for years through sale or lease to an entity in need of production support. That could be a media company like Apple or Amazon. Or it could be the outbound Pac-12 schools, who must produce on-campus events for the networks affiliated with their new conferences.

Put another way: The Pac-12 Networks technology will become a huge liability this summer, unless it becomes a valuable asset that generates revenue and helps keep OSU and WSU afloat.

The networks as an asset?

It would be quite the twist to a plot that, for OSU and WSU, has unfolded as smoothly as they could possibly have hoped.

Jon Wilner: jwilner@bayareanewsgroup.com; Jon Wilner has been covering college sports for decades and is an AP top-25 football and basketball voter as well as a Heisman Trophy voter. He was named Beat Writer of the Year in 2013 by the Football Writers Association of America for his coverage of the Pac-12, won first place for feature writing in 2016 in the Associated Press Sports Editors writing contest and is a five-time APSE honoree.

Ok, some of this sounds good, but as the contrarian that I am:

By 2026, when all of this shit comes down (or not), The Pac-2 could be twisting even worse out in the wind. I'm a conservative guy, OK? Bird in the hand? AKA Pacwest? Nobody wants us. If the ACC blows up, the Power 3 will suck up the good ones. Our only possibility is the Big-12, and they don't want us. Why would any of these 2026 scenarios change that?

And the comment on Kliavkoff's value. It's not HIS seat on the management committee, It's the Pac 12 (2) commissioner. So fire him and hire an interim. Duh.

And edit:

The moment the Bay Area schools fled to the ACC and locked themselves into a 12-year agreement with a conference in tumult, the Beavers and Cougars took the opposite approach.

They remained as flexible as possible.

The strategy wasn’t merely to prepare themselves for the opportunity to join a new conference (or subdivision) in the second half of the decade.

It was to create a safety net in case The Great Realignment Experiment of 2023 fails and the Pac-12’s outbound schools are forced to reverse course, either in 2026 or soon after.

We didn't remain flexible or take an opposite approach or have a strategy. WE GOT F-ED OVER AND LEFT OUT. We didn't create a safety net. The "took the opposite approach"? WTF? what other options were there? Answer: NONE

 

[Flatlandcoug]

I think we've played our cards as well as we could have and we are as well positioned as we can be given the situation. There's an outside shot that we get hosed more than we already have been, but I think an objective look at the situation suggests that there isn't anything else that we could have done.

Frankly, the Big 12 is going to need to do something to be relevant because while it's going to be a good basketball conference in 2024, there's a pretty good chance that it will be invisible as a football conference. Lots of cards to be dealt out in the next couple years.

 

[Stretch 74]

Ok, some of this sounds good, but as the contrarian that I am:

By 2026, when all of this shit comes down (or not), The Pac-2 could be twisting even worse out in the wind. I'm a conservative guy, OK? Bird in the hand? AKA Pacwest? Nobody wants us. If the ACC blows up, the Power 3 will suck up the good ones. Our only possibility is the Big-12, and they don't want us. Why would any of these 2026 scenarios change that?

And the comment on Kliavkoff's value. It's not HIS seat on the management committee, It's the Pac 12 (2) commissioner. So fire him and hire an interim. Duh.

And edit:

The moment the Bay Area schools fled to the ACC and locked themselves into a 12-year agreement with a conference in tumult, the Beavers and Cougars took the opposite approach.

They remained as flexible as possible.

The strategy wasn’t merely to prepare themselves for the opportunity to join a new conference (or subdivision) in the second half of the decade.

It was to create a safety net in case The Great Realignment Experiment of 2023 fails and the Pac-12’s outbound schools are forced to reverse course, either in 2026 or soon after.

We didn't remain flexible or take an opposite approach or have a strategy. WE GOT F-ED OVER AND LEFT OUT. We didn't create a safety net. The "took the opposite approach"? WTF? what other options were there? Answer: NONE

Options? They may not have been good options, but they existed.

1. Just go along quietly and let the PAC disintegrate.
2. Drop all college sports and concentrate on academics.
3. Decide to compete as independents.
4. Try to join the Big 12, even with a substantial discount in revenue shares.
5. Try to join the ACC, even with a substantial discount in revenue shares.
6. Try to join the Mountain West with whatever revenue agreement they could get.
7. Try to join the West Coast Conference with whatever revenue agreement they could get.

AT THIS POINT, it appears that the path chosen has been better than any of the others. Time will tell if it works out well for WSU and OSU or not. We all fervently hope it does.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

The only thing I can be certain about with regard to college football is that there is little certainty. Even the 800 pound gorillas (B10 & SEC) could be severely wounded by a class action, among other things. There is a LOT of anxiety out there in high dollar athleticsland. Loyal is partially right, in that we had no choice about the cards we were dealt. They were what they were. But Wilner is also right; we could have either folded or mis-played what cards we had, and we did not do that. I have to agree that we achieved the optimum possible given the cards we held. We even successfully bluffed a time or two, and then lulled UW into going to the state Supreme Court with a "no chance of winning" hand...which ultimately worked so much in our favor by slamming the door on the PAC ownership question that even UW was surprised. Poker games are won just as much by method of play and mistakes of others as they are by your own cards. As of January, 2024, I think we've done as well as we could have done. But there is still a lot of ground to cover over the next 2 years, and there is no road map. Or rather, there are many road maps, and each has big blank spaces. And a lot of those blank spaces overlap from map to map.

Chun and Shulz have done a good job thus far. And some politically well connected teams (Alabama is an example) are realizing that their previous built-in advantages may end up going to others as a result of this restructuring, so we may inadvertently benefit by in-fighting elsewhere.

I've talked myself off the ledge and am trying to enjoy the on-going theatre.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Options? They may not have been good options, but they existed.

1. Just go along quietly and let the PAC disintegrate.
2. Drop all college sports and concentrate on academics.
3. Decide to compete as independents.
4. Try to join the Big 12, even with a substantial discount in revenue shares.
5. Try to join the ACC, even with a substantial discount in revenue shares.
6. Try to join the Mountain West with whatever revenue agreement they could get.
7. Try to join the West Coast Conference with whatever revenue agreement they could get.

AT THIS POINT, it appears that the path chosen has been better than any of the others. Time will tell if it works out well for WSU and OSU or not. We all fervently hope it does.

Hmm. Well Option 1 is pretty much what happened I think. Option 2, c'mon. That's not an option. 3, that's just about what we are going to be. Baseball will be. 4, I'm quite sure we went to the Big-12 hat in hand and were rejected. 5, see the ACC thread and how that is working out so far for Stanford and Cal. 6, that is where we are heading, with my blessing. Except a reverse merger. 7, umm the WCC conference doesn't play Football. And I think our minor sport agreement with the WCC is F-ing stupid. Should have just done this with the MW.

And to cr8zy's post, I respectfully and completely disagree. Shulz and Chun have done a horrible job, my dog could have done as well or better. And Shulz Mr. former Big-12 Prez and Athletics expert. Yeah he shined all right. They should both be fired.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Hmm. Well Option 1 is pretty much what happened I think. Option 2, c'mon. That's not an option. 3, that's just about what we are going to be. Baseball will be. 4, I'm quite sure we went to the Big-12 hat in hand and were rejected. 5, see the ACC thread and how that is working out so far for Stanford and Cal. 6, that is where we are heading, with my blessing. Except a reverse merger. 7, umm the WCC conference doesn't play Football. And I think our minor sport agreement with the WCC is F-ing stupid. Should have just done this with the MW.

And to cr8zy's post, I respectfully and completely disagree. Shulz and Chun have done a horrible job, my dog could have done as well or better. And Shulz Mr. former Big-12 Prez and Athletics expert. Yeah he shined all right. They should both be fired.

As the resident "Fire Schulz and Chun" expert, please explain what you would have done differently in light of how things actually when down. Please be specific.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

As the resident "Fire Schulz and Chun" expert, please explain what you would have done differently in light of how things actually when down. Please be specific.

Well for starters, and this is on Shulz not necessarily Chun, pound on the desk and scream and convince the Pac-12 to take the $30 million ESPN deal. And that was post the USC/UCLA announcement. That is what killed us. Oh and promise to add SDSU and a 12th team TBD when buyouts become reasonable.

Get Quackkoff fired. Still haven't done that.

Demand and get accountability for the PAC mystery money. Still hanging out there I believe.

That enough?

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Well for starters, and this is on Shulz not necessarily Chun, pound on the desk and scream and convince the Pac-12 to take the $30 million ESPN deal. And that was post the USC/UCLA announcement. That is what killed us. Oh and promise to add SDSU and a 12th team TBD when buyouts become reasonable.

Get Quackkoff fired. Still haven't done that.

Demand and get accountability for the PAC mystery money. Still hanging out there I believe.

That enough?

How do you know he didn't do item #1? And even if he did, do you actually think it moves the needle? If the rest of the conference has their head up Kliavkoff's arse waiting for the 50million, what is he supposed to do?

Item two - how does a single member get that done? If you mean recently, I'd assume that it would cost more to get rid of him than keep him at this point. He does have a contract, and with a finite amount of fund I'm not sure that paying Kliavkoff a couple of mil to go away would be fiscally prudent.

Item three - not sure what you're referring to, but again, how do you know that he isn't efforting to get this done?

 

[Loyal Coug1]

How do you know he didn't do item #1? And even if he did, do you actually think it moves the needle? If the rest of the conference has their head up Kliavkoff's arse waiting for the 50million, what is he supposed to do?

Item two - how does a single member get that done? If you mean recently, I'd assume that it would cost more to get rid of him than keep him at this point. He does have a contract, and with a finite amount of fund I'm not sure that paying Kliavkoff a couple of mil to go away would be fiscally prudent.

Item three - not sure what you're referring to, but again, how do you know that he isn't efforting to get this done?

Buddy I know as much as you, which isn't shit. Go argue with someone else. Unless YOU want to list all the great things they did or tried to do to keep this from happening.

I'm done with this thread too. Think I'll just go hang on the UNLV board for a while. I like them.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Buddy I know as much as you, which isn't shit. Go argue with someone else. Unless YOU want to list all the great things they did or tried to do to keep this from happening.

I'm done with this thread too. Think I'll just go hang on the UNLV board for a while. I like them.

You're the one raging against the machine. I'm earnestly looking for information - maybe you know something I don't and can educate me. I'm all for flushing people who aren't acting in the best interests of my alma mater, but I need to have information first. If I recall you state that you're from academia - you should know that the bureaucracy at that level is insane, and nothing happens in any amount of reasonable time.

 

[Stretch 74]

1. Just go along quietly and let the PAC disintegrate.
2. Drop all college sports and concentrate on academics.
3. Decide to compete as independents.
4. Try to join the Big 12, even with a substantial discount in revenue shares.
5. Try to join the ACC, even with a substantial discount in revenue shares.
6. Try to join the Mountain West with whatever revenue agreement they could get.
7. Try to join the West Coast Conference with whatever revenue agreement they could get.

Hmm. Well Option 1 is pretty much what happened I think. Option 2, c'mon. That's not an option. 3, that's just about what we are going to be. Baseball will be. 4, I'm quite sure we went to the Big-12 hat in hand and were rejected. 5, see the ACC thread and how that is working out so far for Stanford and Cal. 6, that is where we are heading, with my blessing. Except a reverse merger. 7, umm the WCC conference doesn't play Football. And I think our minor sport agreement with the WCC is F-ing stupid. Should have just done this with the MW.

And to cr8zy's post, I respectfully and completely disagree. Shulz and Chun have done a horrible job, my dog could have done as well or better. And Shulz Mr. former Big-12 Prez and Athletics expert. Yeah he shined all right. They should both be fired.

Nope, option 1 did not happen. The conference was expected to disintegrate by the actions of the 8 traitors, but WSU/OSU decided to NOT let it totally disintegrate and to rebuild it instead. (I think pretty much everyone expected the conference to continue with 10/11/12 after the LA schools left)

Option 2 IS always an option, although extremely unlikely.

Option 3 was meant as a permanent option, not the temporary thing with temporary scheduling agreements we are now doing.

Options 4 & 5 were never good in my mind, but they were options. Although I bet the Big 12 would have taken us in if we both said we would accept only $5,000,000 per year for 10 years.

Yes, the reverse merger that I think we are pursuing is the way to go, no argument there, but Option 6 was meant to be just let the PAC die away and immediately join the MWC as equal share members.

Option 7 I didn't realize that WCC didn't play football. My fault there, but we still could have gone independent in football and "joined" the WCC in all other sports instead of only having a temporary scheduling agreement.

Bottom line is that we either planned or stumbled into the best possible outcome for the PAC 2.

 

[COUGinNCW]

Well for starters, and this is on Shulz not necessarily Chun, pound on the desk and scream and convince the Pac-12 to take the $30 million ESPN deal. And that was post the USC/UCLA announcement. That is what killed us. Oh and promise to add SDSU and a 12th team TBD when buyouts become reasonable.

Get Quackkoff fired. Still haven't done that.

Demand and get accountability for the PAC mystery money. Still hanging out there I believe.

That enough?

you all forget it was being reported the BIG deal was $70M per year (it came out later it was less then that). Sure, $50M was probably a bit too high to ask for but $30M probably felt like an insult.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

1. Just go along quietly and let the PAC disintegrate.
2. Drop all college sports and concentrate on academics.
3. Decide to compete as independents.
4. Try to join the Big 12, even with a substantial discount in revenue shares.
5. Try to join the ACC, even with a substantial discount in revenue shares.
6. Try to join the Mountain West with whatever revenue agreement they could get.
7. Try to join the West Coast Conference with whatever revenue agreement they could get.


Nope, option 1 did not happen. The conference was expected to disintegrate by the actions of the 8 traitors, but WSU/OSU decided to NOT let it totally disintegrate and to rebuild it instead. (I think pretty much everyone expected the conference to continue with 10/11/12 after the LA schools left)

Option 2 IS always an option, although extremely unlikely.

Option 3 was meant as a permanent option, not the temporary thing with temporary scheduling agreements we are now doing.

Options 4 & 5 were never good in my mind, but they were options. Although I bet the Big 12 would have taken us in if we both said we would accept only $5,000,000 per year for 10 years.

Yes, the reverse merger that I think we are pursuing is the way to go, no argument there, but Option 6 was meant to be just let the PAC die away and immediately join the MWC as equal share members.

Option 7 I didn't realize that WCC didn't play football. My fault there, but we still could have gone independent in football and "joined" the WCC in all other sports instead of only having a temporary scheduling agreement.

Bottom line is that we either planned or stumbled into the best possible outcome for the PAC 2.

You didn't include Option 8. Pigs and monkees could fly out of the players asses as a fan and revenue draw.

C'mon Stretch, up your game. You didn't know that the WCC doesn't play Football? See any goalposts on Gonzaga's campus?

I don't wanna beat this one into the ground. Interesting exchange of thoughts though.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

you all forget it was being reported the BIG deal was $70M per year (it came out later it was less then that). Sure, $50M was probably a bit too high to ask for but $30M probably felt like an insult.

Gawd - here I am, moth to flame.

Gee - the Big 12 didn't think $30M was such an insult as they pounced on it immediately after the Pac-10 thumbed their nose at it.

Oh yeah and getting back to why Shulz should be fired. He came from the Big-12 and was supposed to be Athletics-savvy. Guess not. And did he pound on the desk and scream for the Pac-soon to be 10 to take the deal? Well, one Pac President (and his dipshit professor) apparently nixed the deal. So why couldn't one savvy Prez have shoved it through? Because he is a spineless wimp?

 

[Coug1990]

Hmm. Well Option 1 is pretty much what happened I think. Option 2, c'mon. That's not an option. 3, that's just about what we are going to be. Baseball will be. 4, I'm quite sure we went to the Big-12 hat in hand and were rejected. 5, see the ACC thread and how that is working out so far for Stanford and Cal. 6, that is where we are heading, with my blessing. Except a reverse merger. 7, umm the WCC conference doesn't play Football. And I think our minor sport agreement with the WCC is F-ing stupid. Should have just done this with the MW.

And to cr8zy's post, I respectfully and completely disagree. Shulz and Chun have done a horrible job, my dog could have done as well or better. And Shulz Mr. former Big-12 Prez and Athletics expert. Yeah he shined all right. They should both be fired.

You realize the reason we didn't go with the MWC for all sports was that they wanted more money for us to play them. I would have said no as well and gone with the WCC.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

You realize the reason we didn't go with the MWC for all sports was that they wanted more money for us to play them. I would have said no as well and gone with the WCC.

No I did not know that. Do you have any links or other confirmation of this? And anything relative to our financial arrangement with the HS gym - oh sorry - WCC?

 

[Coug1990]

No I did not know that. Do you have any links or other confirmation of this? And anything relative to our financial arrangement with the HS gym - oh sorry - WCC?

No. I thought it was well known by now. You sure whine a lot. I would hate to go through life miserable like that.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

No. I thought it was well known by now. You sure whine a lot. I would hate to go through life miserable like that.

So in other words, it is well known but you can't come up with anything that supports it?

I don't whine a lot. I am a fact-based guy (yes I'm an accountant. Or was). What is wrong with that?

And my life is not miserable at all. Do we need to get back to all the women I have and will......oh no let's not go there.

If you are going to make statements of "fact", back them up. Although granted internet "articles" and such are not always the truth, but they do provide something.

There is a guy at my dog park that I refer to as Eeyore. Now that guy is miserable. No matter what shit hits me, I find a reason to joke and laugh and flirt with random women like my cute mail women. One of them might be old enough for me.

 

[Stretch 74]

You didn't include Option 8. Pigs and monkees could fly out of the players asses as a fan and revenue draw.

C'mon Stretch, up your game. You didn't know that the WCC doesn't play Football? See any goalposts on Gonzaga's campus?

I don't wanna beat this one into the ground. Interesting exchange of thoughts though.

I'll really look forward to seeing Option #8! That should be quite fun. More bacon and Organ grinders!

No I didn't know that the WCC doesn't play football. Of course, I don't follow the WCC at all, in fact I don't pay ANY attention to them at all. Couldn't name all the schools in the WCC. Couldn't tell you what all sports any of their schools play. But here is a question- Gonzaga has been thrown out there from time to time as a possible school to bring into the PAC (before and after breakup) and I know they don't have football, so why is so impossible that they weren't already in a league with other schools that DO play football? See, I will admit that I don't know everything. Just ALMOST everything! ;-)

I actually pretty much make it a point to ignore anything and everything having to do with Gonzaga. Arrogant and condescending frontrunner fans. They are a good fit with the mutt fans that act the same way. Plus, Gonzago teamed up with the uw instead of WSU on the Medical Schools issues, so eff them! Both!

 

[Loyal Coug1]

I'll really look forward to seeing Option #8! That should be quite fun. More bacon and Organ grinders!

No I didn't know that the WCC doesn't play football. Of course, I don't follow the WCC at all, in fact I don't pay ANY attention to them at all. Couldn't name all the schools in the WCC. Couldn't tell you what all sports any of their schools play. But here is a question- Gonzaga has been thrown out there from time to time as a possible school to bring into the PAC (before and after breakup) and I know they don't have football, so why is so impossible that they weren't already in a league with other schools that DO play football? See, I will admit that I don't know everything. Just ALMOST everything! ;-)

I actually pretty much make it a point to ignore anything and everything having to do with Gonzaga. Arrogant and condescending frontrunner fans. They are a good fit with the mutt fans that act the same way. Plus, Gonzago teamed up with the uw instead of WSU on the Medical Schools issues, so eff them! Both!

This gonzaga/uw medical bullshit really pisses me off. Right down the road from WSU's medical school, and colleges of Nursing and Pharmacy, which we moved to Spokane many years ago. Literally across the river from the gonzaga campus. And I blame f-ing Spokane itself for a lot of this. WSU moved these colleges to Spokane, and fought like hell for the medical school, and then gonzaga crawls into bed with the uw, apparently with Spokane's blessing. F all of them. My daughter got her Master's in Speech and Hearing at WSU Spokane BTW.

I had left WSU a few years prior to the Medical School being approved by the Legislature, but I vividly remember Dr. Floyd, who was a shell of his former self and damn near on his deathbed, fighting in the halls of Olympia to get it passed. I believe that he died within a month or two of its passage.

https://www.krem.com/article/money/...ning/293-dc88bbaa-13f5-4b92-aa05-2b4bb74e9eb3

Health Partnership

The UW School of Medicine – Gonzaga University Health Partnership expands and enhances top-ranked medical education in Spokane.

www.gonzaga.edu

WSU Spokane | Washington State University

WSU Health Sciences Spokane, Washington State University, Academic Programs in Nursing, Pharmacy, Medicine, Health Policy, Nutrition & Exercise

spokane.wsu.edu

History

Made to Make a Difference How the Vision of WSU's Late President Elson S. Floyd Became a Reality In October 2016, the Elson S. Floyd College of Medicine earned accreditation from the Liaison Committee on Medical Education. It was a green light for the college to begin serving as Washington’s...

medicine.wsu.edu

 

[Stretch 74]

This gonzaga/uw medical bullshit really pisses me off. Right down the road from WSU's medical school, and colleges of Nursing and Pharmacy, which we moved to Spokane many years ago. Literally across the river from the gonzaga campus. And I blame f-ing Spokane itself for a lot of this. WSU moved these colleges to Spokane, and fought like hell for the medical school, and then gonzaga crawls into bed with the uw, apparently with Spokane's blessing. F all of them. My daughter got her Master's in Speech and Hearing at WSU Spokane BTW.

I had left WSU a few years prior to the Medical School being approved by the Legislature, but I vividly remember Dr. Floyd, who was a shell of his former self and damn near on his deathbed, fighting in the halls of Olympia to get it passed. I believe that he died within a month or two of its passage.

https://www.krem.com/article/money/...ning/293-dc88bbaa-13f5-4b92-aa05-2b4bb74e9eb3

Health Partnership

The UW School of Medicine – Gonzaga University Health Partnership expands and enhances top-ranked medical education in Spokane.

www.gonzaga.edu

WSU Spokane | Washington State University

WSU Health Sciences Spokane, Washington State University, Academic Programs in Nursing, Pharmacy, Medicine, Health Policy, Nutrition & Exercise

spokane.wsu.edu

History

Made to Make a Difference How the Vision of WSU's Late President Elson S. Floyd Became a Reality In October 2016, the Elson S. Floyd College of Medicine earned accreditation from the Liaison Committee on Medical Education. It was a green light for the college to begin serving as Washington’s...

medicine.wsu.edu

Elson Floyd was really a hero on that. I also recall him going from table to table, working the room in the Exhibition Hall before one or two of the Seahawk Stadium games. Very friendly and outgoing. Great rep for WSU!

My niece was in the very first class admitted to the Elson S. Floyd School of Medicine! Very proud of her, obviously. I was over in Spokane before the White Coat ceremony, where they call each student up, one by one, and present them with their first white coat. Very emotional and exciting. (dumb me, just filled up my eyes again thinking about it) At the theater named after Bing Crosby, IIRC. So I got there quite early and was parked next to the theater with my door open due to it being a warm day, doing some emails or texts on my phone when two nice looking ladies walked by, dressed quite nicely. At least one was a black lady, don't recall about the other, and she slowed down and greeted me as she walked by. I thought to myself how unusual that was, to be greeted nicely by a strange woman, especially a black woman, right on the streets of Spokane. Turns out that that woman was Elson Floyd's widow, which I recognized when she got up to speak at the ceremony. Nice lady, and she did a great job with her talk.

BTW, my niece did graduate and is now doing her residency in Alabama. Good for her.

 

[95coug]

Elson Floyd was really a hero on that. I also recall him going from table to table, working the room in the Exhibition Hall before one or two of the Seahawk Stadium games. Very friendly and outgoing. Great rep for WSU!

My niece was in the very first class admitted to the Elson S. Floyd School of Medicine! Very proud of her, obviously. I was over in Spokane before the White Coat ceremony, where they call each student up, one by one, and present them with their first white coat. Very emotional and exciting. (dumb me, just filled up my eyes again thinking about it) At the theater named after Bing Crosby, IIRC. So I got there quite early and was parked next to the theater with my door open due to it being a warm day, doing some emails or texts on my phone when two nice looking ladies walked by, dressed quite nicely. At least one was a black lady, don't recall about the other, and she slowed down and greeted me as she walked by. I thought to myself how unusual that was, to be greeted nicely by a strange woman, especially a black woman, right on the streets of Spokane. Turns out that that woman was Elson Floyd's widow, which I recognized when she got up to speak at the ceremony. Nice lady, and she did a great job with her talk.

BTW, my niece did graduate and is now doing her residency in Alabama. Good for her.

For pure public contact, Floyd was the best we’ve had. I used to see him going up and down the aisles at football games, saying hello and shaking hands. And not just in the donor section. I think it was his first fall, I had seats on the aisle in section 10. He said hi, shook my hand, and was still there when play started again, so he sat down and chatted until the end of the series, and moved on. Bumped into him a few times after that, and I can’t imagine that he remembered me, but he always made it seem like he did.

In contrast, I’ve been within 2 feet of both Chun and Moos more than once, and neither even acknowledged my presence. Worse, I was face to face with Marcia Saneholtz, and just got a sneer as if she had just stepped in something.

 

[Stretch 74]

For pure public contact, Floyd was the best we’ve had. I used to see him going up and down the aisles at football games, saying hello and shaking hands. And not just in the donor section. I think it was his first fall, I had seats on the aisle in section 10. He said hi, shook my hand, and was still there when play started again, so he sat down and chatted until the end of the series, and moved on. Bumped into him a few times after that, and I can’t imagine that he remembered me, but he always made it seem like he did.

In contrast, I’ve been within 2 feet of both Chun and Moos more than once, and neither even acknowledged my presence. Worse, I was face to face with Marcia Saneholtz, and just got a sneer as if she had just stepped in something.

I have posted before, but this is worth a repeat. Years ago we were exiting the stadium, going up the stairs between Sections 6 & 7. Marcia was standing several seats into section 7, near the top of the section under the Press Box and suites. This was a game where the Cougs pulled out an exciting win at the end (sorry I don't recall the exact game and circumstances) and people all around were smiling and saying "Go Cougs", all jacked up from the win. And there stood Marcia ignoring everyone and everything, with a look on her face like she had just eaten a five pound shit sandwich. Really, Marcia? And you are a senior official in the WSU Athletic Department? Disgusting!

 

[BiggsCoug]

Elson Floyd was the best thing to ever happen to WSU.

His passing was the worst thing to ever happen to WSU.

 

[95coug]

I have posted before, but this is worth a repeat. Years ago we were exiting the stadium, going up the stairs between Sections 6 & 7. Marcia was standing several seats into section 7, near the top of the section under the Press Box and suites. This was a game where the Cougs pulled out an exciting win at the end (sorry I don't recall the exact game and circumstances) and people all around were smiling and saying "Go Cougs", all jacked up from the win. And there stood Marcia ignoring everyone and everything, with a look on her face like she had just eaten a five pound shit sandwich. Really, Marcia? And you are a senior official in the WSU Athletic Department? Disgusting!

I actually crossed paths with her several times, going back to my time working for athletic maintenance. Every time I saw her she looked like she’d been eating lemons.

 

[425cougfan]

Elson was a great guy. I remember we were walking up to the stadium and he was just walking around outside the stadium saying hi to people and thanking them for coming. It wasn't fake or perfunctory ... he sounded as genuine as he would be if you had just returned his found wallet to him or something. He understood people and seemed genuinely grateful that we had made it over to Pullman to attend.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Elson was a great guy. I remember we were walking up to the stadium and he was just walking around outside the stadium saying hi to people and thanking them for coming. It wasn't fake or perfunctory ... he sounded as genuine as he would be if you had just returned his found wallet to him or something. He understood people and seemed genuinely grateful that we had made it over to Pullman to attend.

Everyonce loves a charismatic leader; Floyd's gift was putting actions behind his words.

 

[425cougfan]

Everyonce loves a charismatic leader; Floyd's gift was putting actions behind his words.

There are a lot of stories, but I was most impressed by hearing about all he did to push for the med school while he was dying of cancer. It was a massive effort even for a healthy person, and he did it while struggling.

 

[95coug]

Elson was a great guy. I remember we were walking up to the stadium and he was just walking around outside the stadium saying hi to people and thanking them for coming. It wasn't fake or perfunctory ... he sounded as genuine as he would be if you had just returned his found wallet to him or something. He understood people and seemed genuinely grateful that we had made it over to Pullman to attend.

Yeah. Last time I saw him was March, about 3 months before he died. You could tell then he was sick. Suit was hanging off him, and he was thin. Gaunt, even. But he was still at it, and was still engaging. After seeing him there, it was not a surprise when he took his leave of absence. He clearly needed it. It was still quite a blow a few weeks later when his death was announced.

WSU hasn't recovered.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

There is a whole school of thought that says that you need to follow an effective, charismatic leader with someone who works hard, speaks softly and is more of a technician. A lot of reasons why, but one is that it is so incredibly difficult to follow the effective, charismatic individual, and a quietly effective next person makes for a good contrast. That quietly effective individual usually needs a people person as a lieutenant. Shulz more or less fits the quietly effective model, but I have not seen the outgoing lieutenant (other than Chun in the athletic side of things).

 

[mikalalas]

This gonzaga/uw medical bullshit really pisses me off. Right down the road from WSU's medical school, and colleges of Nursing and Pharmacy, which we moved to Spokane many years ago. Literally across the river from the gonzaga campus. And I blame f-ing Spokane itself for a lot of this. WSU moved these colleges to Spokane, and fought like hell for the medical school, and then gonzaga crawls into bed with the uw, apparently with Spokane's blessing. F all of them. My daughter got her Master's in Speech and Hearing at WSU Spokane BTW.

I had left WSU a few years prior to the Medical School being approved by the Legislature, but I vividly remember Dr. Floyd, who was a shell of his former self and damn near on his deathbed, fighting in the halls of Olympia to get it passed. I believe that he died within a month or two of its passage.

https://www.krem.com/article/money/...ning/293-dc88bbaa-13f5-4b92-aa05-2b4bb74e9eb3

Health Partnership

The UW School of Medicine – Gonzaga University Health Partnership expands and enhances top-ranked medical education in Spokane.

www.gonzaga.edu

WSU Spokane | Washington State University

WSU Health Sciences Spokane, Washington State University, Academic Programs in Nursing, Pharmacy, Medicine, Health Policy, Nutrition & Exercise

spokane.wsu.edu

History

Made to Make a Difference How the Vision of WSU's Late President Elson S. Floyd Became a Reality In October 2016, the Elson S. Floyd College of Medicine earned accreditation from the Liaison Committee on Medical Education. It was a green light for the college to begin serving as Washington’s...

medicine.wsu.edu

When I have gone to Sacred Heart, Deaconess, Holy Family, etc, and see the student intern nurses, etc, they are always students from WSU medical nursing school, and NOT from UW/Gonzaga Partnership.

And furthermore Sacred Heart, Deaconess ADVERTISES that they employ Student intern Nurses from WSU Spokane Medical Nursing School.

They don't do that for UW/Gonzaga.

I have never ever seen a UW/Gonzaga Student Nurse intern at any of the hospitals.

It's always a WSU Spokane Medical Nursing student intern that I see, have seen, etc.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Elson Floyd was really a hero on that. I also recall him going from table to table, working the room in the Exhibition Hall before one or two of the Seahawk Stadium games. Very friendly and outgoing. Great rep for WSU!

My niece was in the very first class admitted to the Elson S. Floyd School of Medicine! Very proud of her, obviously. I was over in Spokane before the White Coat ceremony, where they call each student up, one by one, and present them with their first white coat. Very emotional and exciting. (dumb me, just filled up my eyes again thinking about it) At the theater named after Bing Crosby, IIRC. So I got there quite early and was parked next to the theater with my door open due to it being a warm day, doing some emails or texts on my phone when two nice looking ladies walked by, dressed quite nicely. At least one was a black lady, don't recall about the other, and she slowed down and greeted me as she walked by. I thought to myself how unusual that was, to be greeted nicely by a strange woman, especially a black woman, right on the streets of Spokane. Turns out that that woman was Elson Floyd's widow, which I recognized when she got up to speak at the ceremony. Nice lady, and she did a great job with her talk.

BTW, my niece did graduate and is now doing her residency in Alabama. Good for her.

Carmento. She was a good looking lady. Had multiple interactions with her, we were on a first name basis.

 

[Wazzubrooz]

Gawd - here I am, moth to flame.

Gee - the Big 12 didn't think $30M was such an insult as they pounced on it immediately after the Pac-10 thumbed their nose at it.

Oh yeah and getting back to why Shulz should be fired. He came from the Big-12 and was supposed to be Athletics-savvy. Guess not. And did he pound on the desk and scream for the Pac-soon to be 10 to take the deal? Well, one Pac President (and his dipshit professor) apparently nixed the deal. So why couldn't one savvy Prez have shoved it through? Because he is a spineless wimp?

I’m still asking, why haven’t those two been held accountable? They were at the wheel when the wheels came off of the PAC. They are culpable… Chun & Shultz.

 

[BiggsCoug]

I’m still asking, why haven’t those two been held accountable? They were at the wheel when the wheels came off of the PAC. They are culpable… Chun & Shultz.

There is no accountability at WSU. Not until you drive the car completely off the road and watch it blow up. Even then you will have the excuse makers show up and blame everyone, everything and anything …. other than those driving.

WSU needs a Meion Sanders staff meeting.

 

[mikalalas]

I’m still asking, why haven’t those two been held accountable? They were at the wheel when the wheels came off of the PAC. They are culpable… Chun & Shultz.

Because as bad as they screwed up when the wheels came off the PAC, and as much as that were their fault jointly will all the other reasons that happened, DESPITE that Chun, Schultz did a decent, ok, semi good job afterwards of:

1. Suing for control of PAC

2. Starting to rebuild PAC

3. The TEMPORARY joint MWC schedule.

4. The TEMPORARY joint WCC schedule for nonfootball sports.

Chun, Schultz have REDEEMED themselves, done a good job, etc, since then.

Also immediately after the PAC disintegrated, and WSU, OSU got left behind, THAT WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN A GOOD TIME TO IMMEDIATELY FIRE, REPLACE CHUN, SCHULTZ, BREAK IN A NEW PRESIDENT, AD, WHO WOULD SEMI PROBABLY, SEMI LIKELY HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO HIT THE GROUND RUNNING FAST ENOUGH, AND THUS WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SUCCESSFULLY SUE FOR PAC CONTROL, WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO START TO REBUILD PAC, WOULD NOT HAVE THE TEMPORARY SCHEDULE ALLIANCE, AND PROBABLY WOULD HAVE IMMEDIATELY JUST JOINED THE MWC, AND GONE QUIETLY AWAY, LIKE THE 10, Big 12, Big 10, SEC, playoff committee, media, etc, wanted WSU to do.

You give Schultz, Chun the chance to FIX things, and then IF they don't THEN YOU FIRE THEM.

Schultz, Chun are doing a good job fixing things. Thus they should not be fired.

However, if they screw things up again, then fire them

If Chun, Schultz had not done a good job fixing things, then they could have been fired, replaced, and hopefully the replacements would fix things.

Also Chun and Schultz gets good credit for the Smith, Dickert hires, Kami, Greeny hires, how awesome WBB, Volleyball, MBB, etc, are doing.

Yes Chun, Schultz also get bad credit for the baseball hires, Rolo, etc, but despite that WSU athletics is about 50/50 to about 67% of time making good hires, based on a good hiring process, good info, good decision making, etc, despite a few good decisions not working out. Even tho Rolo didn't work out, every pundit, expert in nation, the numbers, every metric, etc, seemed to show that Rolo was probably going to be a good hire.

Because of the general semi decent, semi ok condition of WSU athletics overall, you keep Chun, Schultz, and then don't seek to keep them at WSU forever, but instead seek out good eventual replacements for when Chun, Schultz do eventually, quit, retire, die, get fired, get hired away by another college, etc.

Firing Chun, Schultz NOW is the WRONG thing to do.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Because as bad as they screwed up when the wheels came off the PAC, and as much as that were their fault jointly will all the other reasons that happened, DESPITE that Chun, Schultz did a decent, ok, semi good job afterwards of:

1. Suing for control of PAC

2. Starting to rebuild PAC

3. The TEMPORARY joint MWC schedule.

4. The TEMPORARY joint WCC schedule for nonfootball sports.

Chun, Schultz have REDEEMED themselves, done a good job, etc, since then.

Also immediately after the PAC disintegrated, and WSU, OSU got left behind, THAT WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN A GOOD TIME TO IMMEDIATELY FIRE, REPLACE CHUN, SCHULTZ, BREAK IN A NEW PRESIDENT, AD, WHO WOULD SEMI PROBABLY, SEMI LIKELY HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO HIT THE GROUND RUNNING FAST ENOUGH, AND THUS WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SUCCESSFULLY SUE FOR PAC CONTROL, WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO START TO REBUILD PAC, WOULD NOT HAVE THE TEMPORARY SCHEDULE ALLIANCE, AND PROBABLY WOULD HAVE IMMEDIATELY JUST JOINED THE MWC, AND GONE QUIETLY AWAY, LIKE THE 10, Big 12, Big 10, SEC, playoff committee, media, etc, wanted WSU to do.

You give Schultz, Chun the chance to FIX things, and then IF they don't THEN YOU FIRE THEM.

Schultz, Chun are doing a good job fixing things. Thus they should not be fired.

However, if they screw things up again, then fire them

If Chun, Schultz had not done a good job fixing things, then they could have been fired, replaced, and hopefully the replacements would fix things.

Also Chun and Schultz gets good credit for the Smith, Dickert hires, Kami, Greeny hires, how awesome WBB, Volleyball, MBB, etc, are doing.

Yes Chun, Schultz also get bad credit for the baseball hires, Rolo, etc, but despite that WSU athletics is about 50/50 to about 67% of time making good hires, based on a good hiring process, good info, good decision making, etc, despite a few good decisions not working out. Even tho Rolo didn't work out, every pundit, expert in nation, the numbers, every metric, etc, seemed to show that Rolo was probably going to be a good hire.

Because of the general semi decent, semi ok condition of WSU athletics overall, you keep Chun, Schultz, and then don't seek to keep them at WSU forever, but instead seek out good eventual replacements for when Chun, Schultz do eventually, quit, retire, die, get fired, get hired away by another college, etc.

Firing Chun, Schultz NOW is the WRONG thing to do.

Jen Greeny was hired many years before either Shulz or Chun came to WSU.