"The Gunship"

[displacedak]

When Leach and Maestro first arrived,
There was a lot of talk about, Air Raid (Leach) + Pistol (Maestro) = Awesome (!!!)

Upon their arrival however, it is my opinion that the the QB/OL/RB situation did not lend itself to playing with these concepts, and installing the Air Raid took precedence as it fit the personnel better. (This is NOT meant to detract from Halliday's or anyone else's accomplishments, just setting the table.)

Going into this season there were some rumblings of Falk working (and being more comfortable) from under center, the O-Line being solid, and the explosiveness of the RB's. It feels to me like Leach and Maestro may now have the pieces in place to begin to experiment with mashing these two offenses into one-
"The Gunship"
(I know, the most natural combination would be the "Air Pistol" but that seems a little too wimpy to my ear!)

Anyway,
I would like to know what people's thoughts are regarding the combination of these two attacks-
the Air Raid with the Pistol.

X's & O's,
Current personnel fitment,
New or changing responsibilities for players,
etc.

This post is intended to look forward, at the development and evolution of the offense, for the upcoming season.

Please, if you would, refrain from taking this thread to other topics. (Wulff, Moos, past W-L, etc. etc.)

Thanks!

 

[wulffui]

When Leach and Maestro first arrived,
There was a lot of talk about, Air Raid (Leach) + Pistol (Maestro) = Awesome (!!!)

Upon their arrival however, it is my opinion that the the QB/OL/RB situation did not lend itself to playing with these concepts, and installing the Air Raid took precedence as it fit the personnel better. (This is NOT meant to detract from Halliday's or anyone else's accomplishments, just setting the table.)

Going into this season there were some rumblings of Falk working (and being more comfortable) from under center, the O-Line being solid, and the explosiveness of the RB's. It feels to me like Leach and Maestro may now have the pieces in place to begin to experiment with mashing these two offenses into one-
"The Gunship"
(I know, the most natural combination would be the "Air Pistol" but that seems a little too wimpy to my ear!)

Anyway,
I would like to know what people's thoughts are regarding the combination of these two attacks-
the Air Raid with the Pistol.

X's & O's,
Current personnel fitment,
New or changing responsibilities for players,
etc.

This post is intended to look forward, at the development and evolution of the offense, for the upcoming season.

Please, if you would, refrain from taking this thread to other topics. (Wulff, Moos, past W-L, etc. etc.)

Thanks!

I think that a lot more of these concepts will play out with experience and talent maturing. EVERYTHING about the personnel in the run game has improved since last year, and I'm excited to see it in action.

 

[froropmkr72]

When Leach and Maestro first arrived,
There was a lot of talk about, Air Raid (Leach) + Pistol (Maestro) = Awesome (!!!)

Upon their arrival however, it is my opinion that the the QB/OL/RB situation did not lend itself to playing with these concepts, and installing the Air Raid took precedence as it fit the personnel better. (This is NOT meant to detract from Halliday's or anyone else's accomplishments, just setting the table.)

Going into this season there were some rumblings of Falk working (and being more comfortable) from under center, the O-Line being solid, and the explosiveness of the RB's. It feels to me like Leach and Maestro may now have the pieces in place to begin to experiment with mashing these two offenses into one-
"The Gunship"
(I know, the most natural combination would be the "Air Pistol" but that seems a little too wimpy to my ear!)

Anyway,
I would like to know what people's thoughts are regarding the combination of these two attacks-
the Air Raid with the Pistol.

X's & O's,
Current personnel fitment,
New or changing responsibilities for players,
etc.

This post is intended to look forward, at the development and evolution of the offense, for the upcoming season.

Please, if you would, refrain from taking this thread to other topics. (Wulff, Moos, past W-L, etc. etc.)

Thanks!

Speaking of pistols....wasn't that Wulff staff a bunch of pistols??? Seriously, can anyone conceive of a marriage between the two? Previous Leach offenses have the QB's in minus net yards and Nevada has QB's over a thousand yards and a dozen TD's. One HC doesn't want the QB running from the pocket at the expense of reading the open man while the other HC has the QB as an integral part of the rushing offense and the QB being the 3rd or 2nd leading rusher. Sounds like the Hatfields and McCoys.

 

[Cougatron]

We would need essentially one more piece being a mobile QB that can run and do the pistol part (durable/fast) and execute the air raid part (accurate) and someone be smart enough to put it together.

That is a very very small pool of QBs that have all those requirements.

That would be the only REAL thing from holding us back from doing it.

But they exist. If you want to see what one looks like Chazz Surratt 6'2 200lbs committed to Duke. (We aren't getting him). Passed for 4k rushed for 1k

Victor Viramontes1700 yards Passing 1700 rushing Junior year is another (Michigan commit no chance with that.)

So these guys are really rare, and pending you can get one you are going to have to fight off the other spread based teams for them.

The other issue is lineman that can block down on the run and having that be just as good as the pass blocking. We still have work to do on that area, but that is manageable. That's teaching.

So basically for a "Gunship" we need a QB that can do is the biggest issue for the transition, and not just 1. We would need 3-4 on the roster of that type.

I don't see that happening for us because it puts the QB in a vulnerable spot. We would have trouble getting just 1 really good one much less a roster full of them, and you always run the risk of them getting hurt...(see ohio state)...a program like Ohio State can trott out their 3rd stringer and win the title, but someone like us...forget it.

 

[froropmkr72]

Speaking of pistols....wasn't that Wulff staff a bunch of pistols??? Seriously, can anyone conceive of a marriage between the two? Previous Leach offenses have the QB's in minus net yards and Nevada has QB's over a thousand yards and a dozen TD's. One HC doesn't want the QB running from the pocket at the expense of reading the open man while the other HC has the QB as an integral part of the rushing offense and the QB being the 3rd or 2nd leading rusher. Sounds like the Hatfields and McCoys.

I forgot to mention that the name gunship reminds me of good ship which reminds me of good ship lolipop which reminds me of Shirley Temple singing that song and that reminds me of the PW's offense singing that song while all Hawaii's defensive players look like a bunch of big kahunas....and THAT really p!isses me off.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

The thing about a pistol is that it is a run first offense where the run sets up the pass.

The air raid is a pass first offense where the pass sets up the run.

Tech had many years where they actually ran for an appreciable number of yards. That was predicated on having the right O line. When you have the right O line you can recruit RB's.

A pistol QB needs to be a Kaepernick or Mariota type of QB. Their typical play is some type of QB option or RB dive, with the pure pass the third choice.

Some aspects of the two offenses can be melded. Both can be run pretty easily without a TE, for example. And the pistol does not require split backs…that is a flavor best used when your run game is dominant. A single back is not a handicap to a pistol. And both offenses require that a WR block downfield.

Until Leach decides to add a deliberate roll out to the air raid, I don't know how you can really combine them. If he had Jim Kelly as a QB, or Fran Tarkenton, then there are things that could be done. But unless your QB is a legitimate threat to run, you can't really execute the pistol. And being a threat to run is low on Leach's priority list for a recruit.

 

[displacedak]

Interesting-
I was doing a bit of reading on the pistol, seems one of the benefits is when lining up a little closer to the line (than the shotgun) the QB supposedly has a better look at what the D is doing. This could make some of those QB check downs a little more informed. Not to mention he'd be checking to a RB that's already running downhill when he gets the ball.
I imagine our O-Line's wide splits would help a full throttle RB's penetration at the line if he was already checked into and running towards an advantageous situation. (As opposed to getting the ball flat-footed and then running towards where the openings were)

Regarding the "running threat" missing puzzle piece-
It seems to me that the pistol could still function as a pass-first formation as long as the QB is able to drop out of it while still going through his progressions (then step up and throw). I agree that in run-first iterations (where the throw is the 3rd option) having the 1000yd rushing QB is more necessary.
While I think that would be amazing I don't think it's as necessary if your primary weapon is a completion.

Additionally, I realize scrambling for a gain and a rushing for a gain are very different things, (from both a skill as well as a risk/reward perspective) but it seemed to me (despite the limited sample size) Falk did a decent job of getting himself upfield when there was space. (Also, that goal line sneak made me sooooooo happy!)

Regarding the QB recuting, it seems like Leach has been at least looking at some guys with a little more mobility, Apodoca I think was technically dual threat (definitely not sure on that!) going after Modster this cycle, I feel like the first tape I saw of Hillinski was just him showing off his quick feet in drills.

It seems like the two systems work similarly albeit on opposite sides of the line of scrimmage-
The Air Raid looks for holes ahead of the LOS while the Pistol tries to find them from the backfield.

This is fun!
Thank you guys for playing along!

Anyone have any thoughts on how something like this would affect the O-Line play?

I know leach uses the wide splits to give the QB more visibility/ lanes-
I read somewhere that Dana Holgerson's air raid/pistol hybrid at WVU does not use them-
(they utilize some pretty wild backfield sets sometimes too, I'm looking at you "diamond")
I don't know much about line technique, would it be unreasonable to ask the line to switch back and forth between wide and narrow gaps depending on down/yardage/play call/etc.?
Could the QB check into (or out of) the pistol depending on what he sees at the line?
That could be nice.

 

[Loyal Coug]

The thing about a pistol is that it is a run first offense where the run sets up the pass.

The air raid is a pass first offense where the pass sets up the run.

Tech had many years where they actually ran for an appreciable number of yards. That was predicated on having the right O line. When you have the right O line you can recruit RB's.

A pistol QB needs to be a Kaepernick or Mariota type of QB. Their typical play is some type of QB option or RB dive, with the pure pass the third choice.

Some aspects of the two offenses can be melded. Both can be run pretty easily without a TE, for example. And the pistol does not require split backs…that is a flavor best used when your run game is dominant. A single back is not a handicap to a pistol. And both offenses require that a WR block downfield.

Until Leach decides to add a deliberate roll out to the air raid, I don't know how you can really combine them. If he had Jim Kelly as a QB, or Fran Tarkenton, then there are things that could be done. But unless your QB is a legitimate threat to run, you can't really execute the pistol. And being a threat to run is low on Leach's priority list for a recruit.

I would be happy if we had a few rollout/option/designed QB runs within the framework of the Air Raid just to keep the defense from pinning the DL ears back and dropping 7. If Falk/? can go under center and still execute the passes then fine. I just worry about the big splits. Seems like a quick DL or LB could almost just dive through the split and grab his ankles if he is under center.