Wake Forest court storming

[Loyal Coug1]

I guess we are done talking about our Cougs for tonight. I'm not ready for bed, and TV is boring!

This Wake Forest/Duke thing is a bit crazy. At WSU, when we do the court or field storming, fans have to climb over the guardrails or squeeze through the gates and security, slowing down the mob. This was just out of control. were there no gates or rails or security? Geezus. (Scroll down the link for the footage of the incident)

What college basketball should do about court stormings, and other takeaways from Saturday

A busy Saturday of games was overshadowed by a dangerous court storm. ESPN's experts discuss possible solutions and everything else that happened around the sport.

www.espn.com

 

[95coug]

I guess we are done talking about our Cougs for tonight. I'm not ready for bed, and TV is boring!

This Wake Forest/Duke thing is a bit crazy. At WSU, when we do the court or field storming, fans have to climb over the guardrails or squeeze through the gates and security, slowing down the mob. This was just out of control. were there no gates or rails or security? Geezus. (Scroll down the link for the footage of the incident)

What college basketball should do about court stormings, and other takeaways from Saturday

A busy Saturday of games was overshadowed by a dangerous court storm. ESPN's experts discuss possible solutions and everything else that happened around the sport.

www.espn.com

I don’t recall a guard rail in Beasley when I was there. Is there one now?

 

[SaveFerris]

The Duke player had no shot to avoid the rush. Some idiot clearly takes a shot at him in the back. I’m not sure why he literally does a pirouette, but probably was shocked by the rush o students coming at him.

In hindsight, with less than 3 seconds left and down 4 just end the game. Let the opposing team leave the court and run out the clock. Let the students have at it.

 

[Rich Lewis]

In hindsight, with less than 3 seconds left and down 4 just end the game. Let the opposing team leave the court and run out the clock. Let the students have at it.

There's no way the powers that be would allow that. Even if there's 0.1 left and there's an inbounds play at the opposite end they're gonna play it.

Yes, there is a guard rail in Beasley, but I could jump it and the first digit in my age is 8.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

There's no way the powers that be would allow that. Even if there's 0.1 left and there's an inbounds play at the opposite end they're gonna play it.

Yes, there is a guard rail in Beasley, but I could jump it and the first digit in my age is 8.

And, at least when I was there, a bunch of security to at least put up some sort of a "slowdown" effort......at Wake Forest, it was a deluge.

 

[Coug90]

And, at least when I was there, a bunch of security to at least put up some sort of a "slowdown" effort......at Wake Forest, it was a deluge.

Yeah that can’t happen. If the dude fell down he would have been trampled. FFS give them 10 seconds to get off the court before you open up the floodgates.

As for WF, you have won 18 games. And Duke is good but they aren’t even a top 5 team. What are you doing?

 

[SaveFerris]

There's no way the powers that be would allow that. Even if there's 0.1 left and there's an inbounds play at the opposite end they're gonna play it.

Yes, there is a guard rail in Beasley, but I could jump it and the first digit in my age is 8.

I have seen it on the men’s or women’s side, but it’s rare. I believe it was the coach of the away team that called it if I remember correctly.

There’s another angel of this deal that shows why he spins. He has a sleeve on his leg and obviously hurts it in the rush. More than one Wake fan was trying to him. A Wake players seems to get run over in the rush as well.

 

[Rich Lewis]

Don't know about other venues but at Beasley players can easily exit before fans could reach them.

 

[95coug]

Yeah that can’t happen. If the dude fell down he would have been trampled. FFS give them 10 seconds to get off the court before you open up the floodgates.

As for WF, you have won 18 games. And Duke is good but they aren’t even a top 5 team. What are you doing?

I’ve asked this question several times in football and basketball. When I was in school it was pretty rare to rush the field/court. Now, seems like it’s done all the time. There’s no real significance to it anymore.

 

[Coug90]

I’ve asked this question several times in football and basketball. When I was in school it was pretty rare to rush the field/court. Now, seems like it’s done all the time. There’s no real significance to it anymore.

I don’t have issue with it if it’s somewhat controlled. Drunk mobs of fans running onto the field/court before the players have a chance to get to safety is a recipe for disaster.

But then again it may be one of those things that can’t be done in a controlled environment. You either shut it down completely or take your chances of the worst case scenario playing out. Wake will be fortunate to avoid a lawsuit if that guy has a serious injury.

International soccer has had multiple instances of people getting trampled in crowds. Its only a matter of time till that happens with scenes like this.

 

[roses04]

Fines are not enough to stop the crowds, they were storming the court before the final basket was made. It's out of control. If the Duke player is injured and can't play, suspend a WF player until he can. If Duke's leading scorer is injured, suspend WF's leading scorer until the Duke player returns. Maybe fans will think twice if it hurts their own team.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

Sure looked like a deliberate cheap shot by the second & third guys who made contact. The first looked more accidental.

If the guy has a career ending injury, a good penalty would be to take away Wake's home game against Duke next year and give it to Duke, so they play at home twice. Seems fitting.

What the league and the NCAA should NOT want is for the scum sucking, parasite lawyers to get involved. All they need is for some accident attorney to get involved.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Sure looked like a deliberate cheap shot by the second & third guys who made contact. The first looked more accidental.

If the guy has a career ending injury, a good penalty would be to take away Wake's home game against Duke next year and give it to Duke, so they play at home twice. Seems fitting.

What the league and the NCAA should NOT want is for the scum sucking, parasite lawyers to get involved. All they need is for some accident attorney to get involved.

The footage that I've watch multiple times is fuzzy (just watched it again). To be fair, it doesn't look to me like any of them deliberately went after him. Would you? The guy is huge. Definitely not the first guy, hell HE went down. 2nd and third, I don't know. It was such a mob at that point. One of them sort of looks like he had his arms up but again, just don't know.

The biggest thing to me, as I've said, is the total lack of security or any effrt to slow the mob down. I mean they just flooded out of the end line area, like they were teed up at the starting line. Security couldn't see or anticipate that?

Second, as someone said Duke is in 2nd and WF is in fourth. Yeah beating Duke is a big thing, but that?

 

[SaveFerris]

The footage that I've watch multiple times is fuzzy (just watched it again). To be fair, it doesn't look to me like any of them deliberately went after him. Would you? The guy is huge. Definitely not the first guy, hell HE went down. 2nd and third, I don't know. It was such a mob at that point. One of them sort of looks like he had his arms up but again, just don't know.

The biggest thing to me, as I've said, is the total lack of security or any effrt to slow the mob down. I mean they just flooded out of the end line area, like they were teed up at the starting line. Security couldn't see or anticipate that?

Second, as someone said Duke is in 2nd and WF is in fourth. Yeah beating Duke is a big thing, but that?

Thought I had posted this in the thread. It's the overhead footage they slowed down. The 2nd guy definitely reaches out to take a shot.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Thought I had posted this in the thread. It's the overhead footage they slowed down. The 2nd guy definitely reaches out to take a shot.

View embedded media

So you are saying it was the first fan? Kyle Boone is. Yeah he was definitely saying something. Don't see a deliberate action to hit Kyle though. Still wrong. Thanks for the clip. Kid definitely made contact with the knee, which caused the fan to go down. then Kyle spins around. 2nd fan seems to be just going by. by the 3rd it was a cluster.

Ok, watched it several more times. The first collision, the kid hits Kyle's knee. IMHO inadvertent. The second guy, I have to disagree that he took a shot. Put his arm up yeah, but to get around Kyle. Knees did not get touched.

Again, it is all about not preparing for the onslaught.

 

[jourdand]

Looks to me like the Duke player reached out in order to make the initial contact. Whether to protect himself or out of frustration who knows but I don’t see anything malicious from the Wake Forest fans other than they had no business being there in the first place!

 

[SaveFerris]

So you are saying it was the first fan? Kyle Boone is. Yeah he was definitely saying something. Don't see a deliberate action to hit Kyle though. Still wrong. Thanks for the clip. Kid definitely made contact with the knee, which caused the fan to go down. then Kyle spins around. 2nd fan seems to be just going by. by the 3rd it was a cluster.

Ok, watched it several more times. The first collision, the kid hits Kyle's knee. IMHO inadvertent. The second guy, I have to disagree that he took a shot. Put his arm up yeah, but to get around Kyle. Knees did not get touched.

Again, it is all about not preparing for the onslaught.

I see the 2nd fan reaching out to try to push the Duke player in the back. It appears he made contact, then continues to run ahead. Pretty clear to me when it's slowed down.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

I see the 2nd fan reaching out to try to push the Duke player in the back. It appears he made contact, then continues to run ahead. Pretty clear to me when it's slowed down.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one . Doesn't change the wrongness of it from WF's standpoint. Great clip though.

 

[SaveFerris]

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one . Doesn't change the wrongness of it from WF's standpoint. Great clip though.

Whether I post it or not, I tend to do that on a number of your posts.

 

[Coug90]

Looks to me like the Duke player reached out in order to make the initial contact. Whether to protect himself or out of frustration who knows but I don’t see anything malicious from the Wake Forest fans other than they had no business being there in the first place!

Ultimately it doesn’t matter who’s “at fault”. Allowing a mob of people to run onto the floor like that with zero security direction is throwing a match into a tinder box. You’re asking for a situation where a player or fan gets hurt or worse. I’ve seen contrasting videos of other universities anticipating this and bringing a bunch of security out right as the game ends making a wall where the opposing players can walk unimpeded to their locker room. I mean, do something to mitigate the risk.

 

[ttowncoug]

A good way for this to stop is have the Duke player sue Wake Forest for negligence on this.

Agreed, Wake could have had about 30 security guards blocking off access to the Duke players.

 

[moxeecoug]

The footage that I've watch multiple times is fuzzy (just watched it again). To be fair, it doesn't look to me like any of them deliberately went after him. Would you? The guy is huge. Definitely not the first guy, hell HE went down. 2nd and third, I don't know. It was such a mob at that point. One of them sort of looks like he had his arms up but again, just don't know.

The biggest thing to me, as I've said, is the total lack of security or any effrt to slow the mob down. I mean they just flooded out of the end line area, like they were teed up at the starting line. Security couldn't see or anticipate that?

Second, as someone said Duke is in 2nd and WF is in fourth. Yeah beating Duke is a big thing, but that?

Some people have no common sense. A bunch of kids just went after Cam Newton who is 6’4” and 240 lbs and could have used their butts for a broom if he really wanted to. If a bunch of idiot kids will go after a man that size who played in the NFL what’s going to stop another idiot kid going after a college basketball player?

 

[CougEd]

A good way for this to stop is have the Duke player sue Wake Forest for negligence on this.

Agreed, Wake could have had about 30 security guards blocking off access to the Duke players.

So when people stormed the field in the 82 and 97 Apple Cup...if something happened then there should be this big public outcry?

Not sure there was malice as the talking heads want to say, but remember Martin Stadium isn't Jerry's World, Beasley is not the Seattle Coliseum. The stadium belongs to the students. If there was no college in Pullman there would be no Beasley.

 

[ttowncoug]

UW security made the decision to let WSU fans storm that field in 1997. I was there.

They still had a ton of security and you had to jump the railings between the field and the stands.

My point was more akin to the fact that Wake didn't appear to have any security measures to protect the Duke players. If accurate, you could play the negligence card if you wanted to.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

I'd also make the point that a football player in gear has a bit more protection than a basketball player, as well as more room to see the mob coming. Yes, there are some comparables, but it is a stretch.

 

[95coug]

UW security made the decision to let WSU fans storm that field in 1997. I was there.

They still had a ton of security and you had to jump the railings between the field and the stands.

My point was more akin to the fact that Wake didn't appear to have any security measures to protect the Duke players. If accurate, you could play the negligence card if you wanted to.

I haven't watched the Wake Forest video, but reality is that if the crowd is going to rush, there's not a damn thing venue security is going to do to stop them. Security knows that, and the only thing they can really do is try to slow it a little, and plan for how to clear the people out afterward.

I can tell you with 100%, first-person certainty that that's what happened at the Snow Bowl. It was accepted that the field was getting rushed. The locations that had stairs were basically abandoned and people were allowed to use those to get on the field (more controlled entry, less likelihood of people getting injured in the rush). CMS staff were scattered around to deter the people who didn't really want to jump the rail anyway, and cops mostly stationed themselves toward the east end zone so they could make a cordon and press the field rushers out through the tunnel.

My job was easy. I just had to get the WSU-logo pads off the uprights in the east endzone before they got stolen.

 

[Coug90]

So when people stormed the field in the 82 and 97 Apple Cup...if something happened then there should be this big public outcry?

Not sure there was malice as the talking heads want to say, but remember Martin Stadium isn't Jerry's World, Beasley is not the Seattle Coliseum. The stadium belongs to the students. If there was no college in Pullman there would be no Beasley.

Not all created equally. Wake had over 100 fans running through center court as the buzzer was sounding. At UW you had railings to jump over, 100 feet of track/sideline to cross before you are at the edge of a much larger playing field.

If you’re measuring levels of risk the Wake situation isn’t comparable. Understanding potential risks and mitigation is part of the admins job which they failed at.

 

[CougEd]

UW security made the decision to let WSU fans storm that field in 1997. I was there.

They still had a ton of security and you had to jump the railings between the field and the stands.

My point was more akin to the fact that Wake didn't appear to have any security measures to protect the Duke players. If accurate, you could play the negligence card if you wanted to.

Wait...it is different if fans rush a field or court if they have to hop over something?

And to be honest, I don't think the Duke player could have avoided the second two players that ran into him, but he is an athlete, he could have avoided the first one.