2019-20 P12 MBK Weekly Pairings

[ScottHood]

Announced by P12 office a short time ago

Week of Jan. 1-5: UCLA/USC at Washington/Washington State

Week of Jan. 8-12: Washington/Washington State at California/Stanford

Week of Jan. 15-19: Oregon/Oregon State at Washington/Washington State

Week of Jan. 22-26: Washington/Washington State at Colorado/Utah

Week of Jan. 29-Feb. 2: Arizona/Arizona State at Washington/Washington State

Week of Feb. 5-9: Washington at Washington State

Week of Feb. 12-16: Washington/Washington State at UCLA/USC

Week of Feb. 19-23: California/Stanford at Washington/Washington State

Week of Feb. 26-March 1: Washington State at Washington

Week of March 4-7: Washington/Washington State at Arizona/Arizona State

(Regular season ends Saturday, March 7)

P12 Tournament is March 11-14, 2020 at T-Mobile Arena in Las Vegas.

 

[COUGinNCW]

USC or UCLA in Spokane?

 

[mikalalas]

I see 6,7,8 wins with that schedule.

7 wins + 9, 10, 9.5 non conference wins=

16.5 wins, rounded to 17 wins.

So I see 14,15,16,17 wins, CBI, NIT bubble

Win first round CBI, knocked out 2nd round.

Just barely knocked out of NIT, in 1st round, if make NIT.

I see 1 win in Pac 12 tournament

 

[jourdand]

Not sure I’ve ever seen a team win 1/2 of a game. I see 18 games we could win and I see 18 games we could loose. We won’t be very strong this year but hopefully with superior coaching we can pull out a few W’s and get things rolling in the right direction.

 

[etowncoug]

Not sure I’ve ever seen a team win 1/2 of a game. I see 18 games we could win and I see 18 games we could loose. We won’t be very strong this year but hopefully with superior coaching we can pull out a few W’s and get things rolling in the right direction.

Next year it'll be Elleby, Cannon, and a whole lot of growth by the rest of the team if we are going to have anything close to success.

 

[mikalalas]

The only thing where WSU will struggle is at PG, undersized 4, lack of depth at the 4,5 spots.

Strengths:

2, SG

3, G/4

5, (Semi strength)(Pollard, Marko, is good enough to semi rebound,semi defend, semi block shots, semi protect rim, semi score)

Players: Bonton, Cannon, Elleby.

Cannon, Elleby can semi carry team if need be

No player that is a GLARING weakness

Coaching: Smith is way the heck better then Kent.

All of the combined means that WSU altho in technical theory could theoretically possibly, unluckily could lose every game, and altho WSU could technically theoretically possibly lucikly win every game, the LIKELY PROBABLE REALITY is that WSU will probably win about 4,5,6,7,8 of its Pac 12 schedule, 4 at worst, 8 at best, 6 at average, and 8,9,10 non conference wins, and 13, 14, 15, 16, 17,18 overall wins, 13 at absolute worst, 17,18 at best.

Cannon, Elleby, having a NBA player(Elleby), or 2(Cannon(Maybe) or on team is tooo goood to only win 1,2,3,4 Pac 12 games, only win 5,6,7 nonconference games, only win 9,10, 11, 12, overall seasonal wins.

And having Smith's coaching is too good, to only win 1,2,3, maybe 4 Pac 12 games, and only win 5,6,maybe 7 Nonconference games, and only 9,10,11,12 overall seasonal wins

Kent who had lesser pretty much everything(player experience, talent, depth, except for Robert Franks), won about 10,11 games.

Smith who has more of everything(Player experience, talent, depth, coaching, Elleby, Cannon who are the Robert Franks of the team, so even tho lost Franks, etc, the team still better), should be able to win at least 2,3,4 more games then Kent did.

If Smith cant win at least 2,3,4 more wins then Kent, and loses more games then Kent, then while Smith still wouldnt be as bad as Kent, I would predict that Smith would eventually get fired, a few seasons down road, same as Kent.

 

[etowncoug]

We will struggle with play at the point, size for rebounding, consistent shooting, and adjusting to a new style of play. All while being the least talented team in the conference. I expect better fundamental play and our defense should lead us to an unexpected win or two, but this team has less talent than last year's squad.

 

[mikalalas]

We will struggle with play at the point, size for rebounding, consistent shooting, and adjusting to a new style of play. All while being the least talented team in the conference. I expect better fundamental play and our defense should lead us to an unexpected win or two, but this team has less talent than last year's squad.

The ONLY person of note, that left from last years squad, was, is pretty much Robert Franks.

This is pretty much last years team, PLUS a lot of new add on faces, THAT IS MORE EXPERIENCED then last years team with 1 more year under its belt.

Also how many teams in the Pac 12 have at least 1 NBA player, maybe 2 future NBA players?

There is at least 2,3,4 teams in the Pac 12 that do not have any NBA, future NBA players(Good P5, Pac 12 college players, but still not NBA)

So because of that WSU with its NBA, maybe future NBA player is NOT the least talented team in Pac 12.

If WSU was least talented team in Pac 12, WSU would not have a NBA player.

You can stop being like El C and over downplaying WSU.

What I said was realistic.

WSU SHOULD WIN 13 TO 18 GAMES OVERALL, CBI/NIT bubble. Bubble 1 Pac 12 tourney win

4, 5,6,7, 8 wins in conference, 3,4 at minimum, 7,8 at maximum, 5,6 at average

7, 8,9,10 non conference wins. 7 minimum, 10 Max, 8,9 average.

Thats realistic

Smith should be able to better Kents results by at least 1,2,3,4 wins, 1 at worst, 4,5 at best, 2,3 at average, and should win at least 12,13,14 games, 12 at worst, compared to Kents 10,11 wins.

Thats realistic

So can stop downplaying WSU.

WSU with Smith will do better then Kent this coming next season.

If they dont, I will literally eat my words

And if they dont Smith has a good chance of eventually being fired, 4 to 6 years from now just like Kent.

 

[Glad Cougar]

I'm not putting any win-loss expectations on Smith this first year. I didn't with Kent either. I totally agree with etown that this team will be much better fundamentally and on defense, but Smith is going to need a couple of recruiting classes of his own before we can or should judge whether or not he will be fired 4-6 years down the road. Certainly after 5 seasons, if his record in Kent-like, a change will be needed. I'm confident he'll eventually have a much better record than Kent....hopefully starting next season, but I'm not going to panic if he doesn't.

Glad Cougar

 

[etowncoug]

Last year we had Franks and Elleby who were fringe NBA talents. The team only won 11 games. Worse, when Franks was banged up in the non-conference schedule the team found a way to lose to powerhouses like Seattle U and Santa Clara. We even lost to Montana St last year with a healthy Franks.

We haven't seen our non-conference schedule for this year but the P12 has new scheduling rules which will prevent us from scheduling the same number of doormats we did last year. 7 or 8 wins in the NC schedule would mean we've beaten a few good teams, so it's possible for the team to be better next year and win the same number of NC games.

The Pac-12 conference was a dumpster fire last year, and we weren't even competitive in half our games (even with 2 fringe NBA players). We average about 1 star lower on average than the rest of the conference and closer to two with the top teams. It's not downplaying our talent to say we have the least in the conference. It's a fact.

Plus we graduated not only Franks, but Daniels (one of the highest percentage shooters from 3 in school history). We are going to miss the shooting skills each player had unless one of the new guys proves to be a marksman.

We do have an advantage in coaching and should be able to win some games we aren't expected to. But 4 or 5 conference wins wouldn't be considered a disaster from my chair.

Seeing a 13-18 range is just setting yourself up to be upset with Smith. It assumes we have the talent and experience to hang with almost everyone in the conference. I'm not expecting those results until year 3 or 4. Lots of work to do between now and then.

 

[jourdand]

I believe we upgraded our coaching ten fold but We without a doubt will be toward the bottom of the league in terms of talent. First off Elleby is already a great college player but he has a ways to go before he is an NBA talent, he can get there but obviously isn’t there now or he wouldn’t have come back. Cannon is nowhere near an NBA talent at this time but he is a solid PAC 12 player, not a star but a solid player. After that we have Pollard a proven role player, Robinson and Ali decent PAC 12 players and a whole bunch of unknowns that we will have to wait and see on. Very light up front especially, the big euro player will probably be forced to play even though I doubt he is even close to being ready. Usually when I watch highlight videos I take them with a grain of salt because they are highlights, but his highlight video is less than impressive. Watch one full game footage and basically came a way with the evaluation “he is big”. It should be noted there is currently only one other Ukraine player in the NCAA D1 level a guard playing for Maine. Also the Ukrainian national team has never qualified for the Olympics and their pro league is widely considered the worst in Europe for multiple reasons. Make a true evaluation and leave the emotions at the door.

Please don’t heap on all these crazy expectations before we even see most of the team in action! Be happy the team is moving in the right direction and just enjoy the ride❤️

 

[mikalalas]

Last year we had Franks and Elleby who were fringe NBA talents. The team only won 11 games. Worse, when Franks was banged up in the non-conference schedule the team found a way to lose to powerhouses like Seattle U and Santa Clara. We even lost to Montana St last year with a healthy Franks.

We haven't seen our non-conference schedule for this year but the P12 has new scheduling rules which will prevent us from scheduling the same number of doormats we did last year. 7 or 8 wins in the NC schedule would mean we've beaten a few good teams, so it's possible for the team to be better next year and win the same number of NC games.

The Pac-12 conference was a dumpster fire last year, and we weren't even competitive in half our games (even with 2 fringe NBA players). We average about 1 star lower on average than the rest of the conference and closer to two with the top teams. It's not downplaying our talent to say we have the least in the conference. It's a fact.

Plus we graduated not only Franks, but Daniels (one of the highest percentage shooters from 3 in school history). We are going to miss the shooting skills each player had unless one of the new guys proves to be a marksman.

We do have an advantage in coaching and should be able to win some games we aren't expected to. But 4 or 5 conference wins wouldn't be considered a disaster from my chair.

Seeing a 13-18 range is just setting yourself up to be upset with Smith. It assumes we have the talent and experience to hang with almost everyone in the conference. I'm not expecting those results until year 3 or 4. Lots of work to do between now and then.

13 wins total season wins(not Pac 12 record, wins), does NOT mean being able to hang with every team.

PLENTY of CRAP WSU teams in past that ONLY HAD 13 WINS, that could not hang with any team in Pac 10/12

 

[mikalalas]

I'm not putting any win-loss expectations on Smith this first year. I didn't with Kent either. I totally agree with etown that this team will be much better fundamentally and on defense, but Smith is going to need a couple of recruiting classes of his own before we can or should judge whether or not he will be fired 4-6 years down the road. Certainly after 5 seasons, if his record in Kent-like, a change will be needed. I'm confident he'll eventually have a much better record than Kent....hopefully starting next season, but I'm not going to panic if he doesn't.

Glad Cougar

Its a matter of REALISTIC, LOGICAL, RATIONAL, REASONABLE expectations.

Smith should be able to win at least 12,13 games at the least, with what he has.

Now if Smith had had 6 to 9 leave, and had only replaced 2,3,4, then Smith would be lucky to win 3,4,5 games for the whole season expectations wise.

So if that happened, that 6 to 9 had left, and Smith only won 4,5,6 games all season, then that would not mean that Smith would have a good chance of being fired 4 to 6 years down road.

But since Smith should win 12,13 games at the minimum this year, then if Smith were to only win 7,8,9,10 games, similar, worse then Kent, that would be UNDERPERFORMING logical, reasonable, rational, etc, expectations of at least 12 wins, at minimum, and that would mean a CHANCE that Smith could get fired 4 to 6 years down road.

That is not to say that would happen. Thats why said a CHANCE.

But any coach that GREATLY UNDERPERFORMS reasonable expections has a chance to get fired 4 to 6 years down road at WSU.

Some, Most of WSU coaches in WSU history that UNDERPERFORMED, UNDERACHIEVED reasonable, logical, extrapolated expectations, have gone on to eventually be fired in about 4 to 7 years.

Smith will probably win at least 12 games

If Smith only wins 6,7,8,9,10 games, that would be greatly underperforming reasonable logical expectations, and would probably have a CHANCE that could get fired in about 4 to 7 years.

But that wont happen because Smith will probably win AT LEAST 12+ WINS for the season(not number of Pac 12 wins)

 

[mikalalas]

I believe we upgraded our coaching ten fold but We without a doubt will be toward the bottom of the league in terms of talent. First off Elleby is already a great college player but he has a ways to go before he is an NBA talent, he can get there but obviously isn’t there now or he wouldn’t have come back. Cannon is nowhere near an NBA talent at this time but he is a solid PAC 12 player, not a star but a solid player. After that we have Pollard a proven role player, Robinson and Ali decent PAC 12 players and a whole bunch of unknowns that we will have to wait and see on. Very light up front especially, the big euro player will probably be forced to play even though I doubt he is even close to being ready. Usually when I watch highlight videos I take them with a grain of salt because they are highlights, but his highlight video is less than impressive. Watch one full game footage and basically came a way with the evaluation “he is big”. It should be noted there is currently only one other Ukraine player in the NCAA D1 level a guard playing for Maine. Also the Ukrainian national team has never qualified for the Olympics and their pro league is widely considered the worst in Europe for multiple reasons. Make a true evaluation and leave the emotions at the door.

Please don’t heap on all these crazy expectations before we even see most of the team in action! Be happy the team is moving in the right direction and just enjoy the ride❤️

A Ukrainian 7 foot 2, 255 pound Center Jim Mc illvaine(was paid about 6 million a year, averaged about 3,4,5 points per game, 2,3 blocks per game, 7,8,9 rebounds per game, great defense, etc), played for Seattle Supersonics

 

[mikalalas]

Last year we had Franks and Elleby who were fringe NBA talents. The team only won 11 games. Worse, when Franks was banged up in the non-conference schedule the team found a way to lose to powerhouses like Seattle U and Santa Clara. We even lost to Montana St last year with a healthy Franks.

We haven't seen our non-conference schedule for this year but the P12 has new scheduling rules which will prevent us from scheduling the same number of doormats we did last year. 7 or 8 wins in the NC schedule would mean we've beaten a few good teams, so it's possible for the team to be better next year and win the same number of NC games.

The Pac-12 conference was a dumpster fire last year, and we weren't even competitive in half our games (even with 2 fringe NBA players). We average about 1 star lower on average than the rest of the conference and closer to two with the top teams. It's not downplaying our talent to say we have the least in the conference. It's a fact.

Plus we graduated not only Franks, but Daniels (one of the highest percentage shooters from 3 in school history). We are going to miss the shooting skills each player had unless one of the new guys proves to be a marksman.

We do have an advantage in coaching and should be able to win some games we aren't expected to. But 4 or 5 conference wins wouldn't be considered a disaster from my chair.

Seeing a 13-18 range is just setting yourself up to be upset with Smith. It assumes we have the talent and experience to hang with almost everyone in the conference. I'm not expecting those results until year 3 or 4. Lots of work to do between now and then.

That team ONLY won 11 games BECAUSE KENT WAS SUCH A TERRIBLE COACH.

Smith, Coach K would probably have won at least 16,17,18 wins with last years team.

Smith, Coach K, would probably get at least 12+ wins out of this years team, at ultimate extreme minimum

 

[mikalalas]

Last year we had Franks and Elleby who were fringe NBA talents. The team only won 11 games. Worse, when Franks was banged up in the non-conference schedule the team found a way to lose to powerhouses like Seattle U and Santa Clara. We even lost to Montana St last year with a healthy Franks.

We haven't seen our non-conference schedule for this year but the P12 has new scheduling rules which will prevent us from scheduling the same number of doormats we did last year. 7 or 8 wins in the NC schedule would mean we've beaten a few good teams, so it's possible for the team to be better next year and win the same number of NC games.

The Pac-12 conference was a dumpster fire last year, and we weren't even competitive in half our games (even with 2 fringe NBA players). We average about 1 star lower on average than the rest of the conference and closer to two with the top teams. It's not downplaying our talent to say we have the least in the conference. It's a fact.

Plus we graduated not only Franks, but Daniels (one of the highest percentage shooters from 3 in school history). We are going to miss the shooting skills each player had unless one of the new guys proves to be a marksman.

We do have an advantage in coaching and should be able to win some games we aren't expected to. But 4 or 5 conference wins wouldn't be considered a disaster from my chair.

Seeing a 13-18 range is just setting yourself up to be upset with Smith. It assumes we have the talent and experience to hang with almost everyone in the conference. I'm not expecting those results until year 3 or 4. Lots of work to do between now and then.

I did say 4 to 8 conference wins.

The 4,5 conference wins you say is possible is within that 4 to 8 conference wins range I said.

4,5,6,7,8 conference wins, 4 at minimum, 8 at max, 6 at average, is realistic

7,8,9,10 nonconference wins, 7 at Minimum,. 10 at max, 8,9, 8.5 at average is. realistic

12,13 to 17,18 seasonal wins(Not Pac 12 wins, 12,13 at minimum, 17,18 max, 15 average, CBI bubble, 500 season bubble, is realistic.

Thats what Smith, Coach K probably would get out of this years team.

Thats realistic

 

[etowncoug]

13 wins total season wins(not Pac 12 record, wins), does NOT mean being able to hang with every team.

PLENTY of CRAP WSU teams in past that ONLY HAD 13 WINS, that could not hang with any team in Pac 10/12

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/washington-state/

A quick look at our history shows we are about 50/50 to win 13 games in a season, and it's worse if you exclude the Bennett years/aftermath Bone years. Dick Bennett only won 13 once.

I'd hardly call it a floor.

 

[jourdand]

A Ukrainian 7 foot 2, 255 pound Center Jim Mc illvaine(was paid about 6 million a year, averaged about 3,4,5 points per game, 2,3 blocks per game, 7,8,9 rebounds per game, great defense, etc), played for Seattle Supersonics

Where in the world did you get that Jim McIlvaine was from the Ukraine? He was born in Wisconsin

 

[etowncoug]

Where in the world did you get that Jim McIlvaine was from the Ukraine? He was born in Wisconsin

Facts have never gotten in the way of his theories.

 

[mikalalas]

Where in the world did you get that Jim McIlvaine was from the Ukraine? He was born in Wisconsin

If you say he was born in Wisconsin, then he was born in Wisconsin. But he may, might probably either have Ukrainian Ancestry, or played overseas in Ukraine, before joining, playing in NBA

As to where I got that he was supposedly Ukrainian, I either heard Kevin Calabro Voice of the sonics call him the "Ukrainian", or from a newsource, or from somewhere.

Since I was wrong, my source was wrong.

Of course it could just be a nickname, that he was not a Ukrainian.

Could also have misheard, misremembered.

Could have also gotten him mixed up with some other NBA player from Ukraine that was similar to Jim.

All I know, is that I wasnt making it up, that I thought he was Ukrainian, because of either source, news, mishearing, misremembering, etc.