ADVERTISEMENT

2020 Recruiting

7ICoug

7ICoug

Hall Of Fame
Jan 30, 2003
6,087
305
83
Do believe that 2019 is done. Six returning players and seven new-comers. Ali, Robinson, Rapp, Williams, Bonton, Rodman, Elleby, Kunc, Markovetskyy, Cannon, Henson, James, Pollard.

For 2020 Verbal Commits has 12 WSU offers currently out.

SG MarJon Beaucamp
Marcus Bagley
Beon Riley

SF Jabri Abdur-Rahim
Matthew-Alexander Moncrieffe
Jaylen Clark
Coleman Hawkins
Tari Eason
Ronnie Degray III (reclassed from 2019)
PF Jhaylon Martinez
Kendall Munson

C Bradley Ezewiro

 
If Smith gets 5 star Mar Jon Beauchamp, after offering him, then it would be the greatest since Raveling got Stuart House, and maybe even better then that.

Also it would bust the westside pipeline connection wide open.

And Smith would be either the best or one of the best WSU recruiting coach ever.

And WSU would probably make it to 17,18,19,20 wins, NIT, bubble NCAA, either just barely making or not making NCAA.

Thats hiw good Mar Jon is, even as a college freshman.

I think it would be worth it to get Jamon Kemp(Mar Jon's Teammate at Beach HS), over Ali(Kemp will be better then Ali), to try to get Mar Jon.

I dont think Mar Jon will commit, sign with WSU, Smith.

But it wouldnt surprise, shock me either based on what I have seen of Smith.

Even if Mar Jon were to, doesnt sign with WSU, its good for Smith to at least try, as long as Smith has, gets a back up Plan A, Plan B, Plan C, etc, with a lot of potential upside.

And Smith has, and is doing that, and is doing a AWESOME job.

Past WSU coaches wouldnt have even tried, bother offering Mar Jon, an or having Mar Jon for a visit to WSU.
 
Also dont forget Cannon is coming back, according to the other thread, etc. So thats 14, instead of 13.

Also I hope that Smith gets Jamon Kemp over Ali, but if not then Ali is ok.

That, those 14 players make one hell of a awesome team for WSU.

I think that WSU will win 15, 16, 17, 18, 19 games.

15 at extreme minimum. 19 at extreme maximum, 16, 18, less likely, 17 on likely average

And 5, 6,7,8,9 conference wins. 5 at extreme minimum, 9 at extreme maximum. 6, 8 less likely, 7 on likely average

And a almost guaranteed CBI, and a semi likely, semi probable, semi bubble make NIT, with 17,18 wins, and a just barely bubbling but not making NCAA at 18,19 wins at best.
 
I project the starting 5, depth chart to be:

1.PG: Robinson/Ali/Bonton/Noah Williams

2.SG:Bonton/Ali/Robinson/Cannon/James/Noah Williams/Rodman

3. Wing/G/F:Elleby(Elleby here when Pollard or Kunc at 4)/Cannon(Cannon here when Elleby at 4)James/Rodman/Noah Williams/Kunc/Henson

4. Elleby(Elleby here when, if not at 3)/Pollard/Kunc/Henson/Cannon/James

5. Markovetsky/Pollard(When not at 4)/Kunc(stretch not as likely), Henson(Stretch not as likely)

I see a 9,10, 9.5 man rotation of:

Robinson, Bonton, Ali, Cannon, James, Elleby, Markovetsky, Pollard, Kunc

One of will be added to, in rotation.

Noah, Rodman,

Rapp almost guaranteed to Redshirt, Henson might probably redshirt as well.
 
With Cannon and Ali back we essentially have 4 starters returning. If some of the newcomers push the returning guys that is not a terrible position to be in. Franks statistically is a big loss, but I always ask how big an impact that loss is on a team that lost 20 games.
 
Hopefully James can step in at the 4 next year. He's not going to give us the scoring of Franks but hopefully a steady force inside alongside Pollard. We really need Pollard to stay healthy next season.
 
SaveFerris said:
Hopefully James can step in at the 4 next year. He's not going to give us the scoring of Franks but hopefully a steady force inside alongside Pollard. We really need Pollard to stay healthy next season.
Click to expand...

James is a 6 foot 5 and 1/2 to 6 foot 6, to 6 foot 6 and 1/2 in combo 2,3,4. He can play at 2. SG, at 3.Wing/Guard/SF, and at 4.PF as a STRETCH PF.

Because of that, he is very Versatile. And that combined with his athleticism, skills, talents, experience, etc, is what will get him starter like, 6 man like, playing time, SPLIT amongst, starting and backing up at each 2,3,4 spot, depending on situation.

James will not be the starter at the 4, PF.

Polllard or Elleby(When not start at 3, G/F/Wing) or Kunc or Cannon(When not start at 2/3 depend on situation)

Those above players, likely starters at the 4 are AHEAD of James at the 4.

So altho James will occasionally start, back up, sub, 6th man, 1st man off bench at the 4, occasionally, he James probably wont be the REGULAR starter at the 4.

If James becomes the regular starter at the 4, it would either be because of injury, or because nobody else is doing good at the 4, (that would be bad), or he beat out everybody there(would probably be a good thing).

Until then, James has to take the 4 job away from everyone in front of him at the 4 to be the 4.

And its not much better at the 2, where he would be behind Bonton, Robinson, Ali, 4th on the depth chart at the 2.

Where James would be best is at the 3, Wing/G/F spot, where he is 2nd,3rd behind either Elleby or Cannon.

So James will get a decent amount of playing time, but will be shuffled, moved around a lot,depending on situation.
 
James is a power forward/ 4 it is pretty much all he played at Colorado State can’t imagine that would change this late in his career. He will be small for the 4 in the pac 12 but he can’t play the 2 and is not really suited
for the 3. Cannon also is not a 4 by any stretch of the imagination.

If I had to guess and this is a big guess the starters will be

1 Robinson
2 Cannon
3 Elleby
4 James/ Kunz
5 Pollard
 
jourdand said:
James is a power forward/ 4 it is pretty much all he played at Colorado State can’t imagine that would change this late in his career. He will be small for the 4 in the pac 12 but he can’t play the 2 and is not really suited
for the 3. Cannon also is not a 4 by any stretch of the imagination.

If I had to guess and this is a big guess the starters will be

1 Robinson
2 Cannon
3 Elleby
4 James/ Kunz
5 Pollard
Click to expand...

Markovetsky, the high end 3 star, lowest ended 4 star, 3.5 star, 7 footer, Transfer, will start at either the 5, or 4, alongside either Pollard, an or Kunc, in normal situations.

When WSU/Smith wants to go medium, normal, then either Markovetsky/Pollard and Kunc together at the 4,5 spots.

If WSU wants to go BIG, then Markovetsky, Pollard at the 4,5 spots.

If WSU wants to go small, then Pollard, Kunc/Elleby at the 4 spot.

James is most suited for the 3. The ONLY reason he played the 4 at Colorado State, is because Colorado State isnt a big time program, that got bigger, better at the 4, and because in Colorado St's league, conference, competition, James could get away with being the permanent starter at the 4.

Thats not the case with James at WSU.

Also James has the following skills, talents, at about 6 foot 5 and 3/4 inch to 6 foot 6 inch:

Good, ok ball handler, good, ok shooter, good ok passer, good, ok offensive lateral quickness, driving, slashing to finish at rim, etc.

THAT IS PROTOTYPICAL HEIGHT, WEIGHT, SIZE, ATHLETICISM, SKILLS, TALENTS FOR THE 3, WING/G/SF position.

I didnt say James was a starting 2, SG. James is a BACK UP STRETCH 2, SG, when WSU wants to go BIG at ALL positions.

The same for James at the 4. James is a BACK UP STRETCH 4, when WSU wants to go SMALL at ALL positions.

Elleby is a TWEENER between the 3 and 4 positions and either starts at both positions, an or at worst is BACK UP stretch 4, when WSU wants to go SMALL.

Cannon has the same prototypical height, weight, skillsets, talent, athleticism, etc, as James, and like James, Cannon is best suited for the 3 spot, but like James is a BACK UP stretch 2, when WSU want to go BIG at ALL positions, and a BACK UP STRETCH 4, when WSU wants to go SMALL at ALL positions.

WSU is LOGJAMMED AT THE 3, WING,G/SF spot with the starter Elleby, then Cannon, then James, then Rodman.

They all cant play the 3 spot, at the same time, so in order for Cannon, James, to get the playing time they each deserve, they are going to have to be moved around, play some time at the 2,3,4 according to the situation,whether WSU wants to go BIG or SMALL, or injuries, etc.

Elleby, Cannon, James, as 3's, Wing's, G/F's, etc, are each good enough to be the starting 3 on other Low to Mid to maybe even high, good, ok P5, to mid to high good Mid Major, teams.

Thats why there is a LOG JAM at the 3 at WSU, where each of Elleby, Cannon, James, normally would, should PERMANENTLY start at the 3 at WSU, and would, IF there wasnt the LOGJAM at the 3.

Its a good LOGJAM problem to have.

This, that is why James wont PERMANENTLY start at the 4, and why he James will get moved around between 2,3,4, bench.

And that is why the starters will be:

1. Robinson(6' 2")/Ali(5' 11")/Bonton(6' 3")/Noah Williams(6' 5")
2. Bonton/Robinson/Ali(When,IF WSU wants to, is ok with going SMALL at the 2, with Ali),/Cannon(When, IF WSU go BIG)(6' 6")/James(When, IF WSU go BIG)(6' 6")/Noah Williams(6'5")
3. Elleby(6' 6")/Cannon/James/Rodman/Noah Williams
4. Pollard(6' 9")/Kunc(6' 7.5")/Elleby(6' 6")(When IF, WSU go Small)/James(6' 6")(When, IF, WSU go Small)
5. Markovetsky(7'0")/Pollard(6'9")/Kunc(6'7.5")(Stretch 5(When WSU wants to go Small)

Thats the LIKELY PROBABLE starting 5, and the back up, bench, depth chart behind the likely starting 5.

WSU isnt gping to play a 6' 6" at the 4, whether Elleby, Cannon, James, UNLESS, IF WSU go SMALL AT ALL positions.

OTHERWISE its either POLLARD(6' 9"), or Kunc(6' 7.5") at the 4.

And either Markovetsky(7'0"), or Pollard(6'9") at the 5.

The ONLY WAY MARKOVETSKY doesnt start at the 5, is IF WSU wants to go SMALL. OR IF he gets beat out, not ready yet.

BUT FOR NOW ITS MARKOVETSKY'S JOB TO LOSE AT THE 5.

YOU DONT BRING A 3.5 HIGH END 3 STAR 7'0" TRANSFER CENTER FROM A MARQEE INTERNATIONAL, OLYMPIC team, teams, unless you think he is good enough to start over Pollard, Kunc, Elleby, James, at either the 4 or 5 spot, IF ITS NOT HIS JOB TO LOSE, and ifs its not to shore up a weakness, create more depth at the BIG MAN spot.

If your going to say that Markovetsky should be on the bench, and that James should start an or be a 4, then you should not have recruited Markotvetsky.

Now if Markovetsky loses the starting job at the 5, doesnt PAN OUT, then thats 1 thing, but to say he shouldnt be starting, is another, not reasonable, rational, not logical,etc.
 
Last edited:
Markovetsky is not a transfer! He very well could get time this year strictly based on our need for height but he is probably a year or two away from making any kind of significant contribution. At this point I would probably classify him as a project. FYI you bring a guy like this in because he is only a freshman and has plenty of time to develop not because you think he can necessarily start right away.

James plays close to the basket, that’s his game. He shot like 25 percent from beyond the arch (which is moving even farther out of his range) you bring a grad transfer in because you feel he can help right away.
 
Last edited:
jourdand said:
Markovetsky is not a transfer! He very well could get time this year strictly based on our need for height but he is probably a year or two away from making any kind of significant contribution. At this point I would probably classify him as a project.

James plays close to the basket, that’s his game. He shot like 25 percent from beyond the arch (which is moving even farther out of his range)
Click to expand...

Newsflash: Capers(6' 5"), and James(6' 6"), and Ivory 6'5,1/2"), Weaver(6' 5,3/4") were all very similar height, weight, skillsets, athleticism, etc.

Also guess what they had in common:

They each either situationally started, or permanently started, or should either situationally start, semi permanently start at the 3(James case, permanently started at 4 at Colorado St.)

Ivory was bounced back and forth between starting at 4 and starting at 3, because that team didnt have prototypical 4 or 4's, so Ivory had to sometimes start at 4 and bounce back and forth between 3 and 4.Otherwise he would have started at the 3 permanently and been like Capers.

James might have gotten away with playing close to basket, or post up back to basket, at Colorado St, but wont at WSU.

I have seen a semi lot of James video, videos, and in the videos, he is making midrange jumpers, freethrows, 3 pointers, slashing, driving to basket, LOOKING LIKE A 3.

25% while not a good, great 3 point percentage, is a just barely semi almost ok, below average 3 point percentage, for a 4. And since he did play the 4 at Colorado St. He probably like you said, spent more time closer to basket instead of improving his 3 point shot. If he had started at 3 at Colorado, like he probably would have at most other programs, he probably would have shot about between 28 to 36% from 3 point range instead of 25% from 3 point range.

Also to put things into perspective, Gary Payton combo PG/SG for NBA sonics only shot about 26.5% from 3 point range for 1,2 seasons early in his NBA career.

Going by your logic about the 25% 3 point thing, about your point about James, and applying that to Gary Payton who was 6' 4 and 1/2" inches, Gary should have been either a 3,4 in college for OSU instead of 1,2 for OSU.

Also Capers shot even worse from 3 point range then James, and Ivory even worse then Capers from 3 point range

Also Weaver wasnt much better at 3 point range, then James, and had, has the same height (6' 5 and 1/2 in to 6 ft 5 and 3/4 in to 6 ft 6 in), weight, shooting ability or lack thereof, skillsets, talents, athleticism, etc, as Capers, Ivory, James, etc.

Weaver should have been a 3, but was needed at 2. Weaver could have also played all 3, 2,3,4 spots, just like Capers, Ivory, James, etc.

You see, whenever you get a player who is like a mix of has some of either Weaver, Capers, Ivory, James, etc, you have a player that is a 3, and can be a STRETCH back up 2, and a STRETCH back up 4, but that the spot they are most suited for is the 3 spot.

Because of this James will primarily play at the 3, and get moved around between 2,3,4, bench.

As far as Markovetsky.

Yes he is technically not a transfer, and is technically a freshman.

What you dont seem to me to get is that his international, olympic U20 teams, leagues, conferences, divisions, COMPETITION, ETC, is WAY THE HELL BETTER then MOST TO ALMOST all of the USA highschools, prepschools, AAU, CLUB, leagues, conferences, divisions, COMPETITIONS.

He Markovetsky has been playing basketball in a COLLEGE BASKETBALL like environment, overseas, for 1,2,3 years.

As such, even tho he is technically only a freshman, not a transfer, he is PRACTICALLY A TRANSFER, LIKE A TRANSFER, TRANSFERING FROM THAT OLYMPIC, COLLEGE BASKETBALL ENVIRONMENT to the COLLEGE BASKETBALL ENVIRONMENT here in USA.

That's almost no different between transfering from P5, Mid Major college, to another P5, mid major conference, and transfering from where he Markovetsky was at as s Freshman to where he will be as a college freshman.

So while he is technically a NCAA USA college freshman, he is sorta, kinda like the near equivalent of a transfer, sophmore.

Is he a project? I dont know, but I dont think so.

And even if he were to be a project, like you said the number of FRONT COURT STARTING BIGS, DEPTH, is EXTREMELY SMALL.

POLLARD, MARKOVETSKY, KUNC are the ONLY LIKELY starting BIGS at the 4,5.

And out of that, its likely that Pollard, Markovetsky start together at the 4,5 spots, even if Markovetsky were to be a project.

Sometimes you have to start a project at the 4,5 at WSU. This is probably one of those times, if he Markovetsky is a project.

So its either Marko, Pollard together at the 4,5, when, if WSU wants to go BIG.

Or Pollard, Kunc at the 4,5 spots, with Marko 6th man, 1st Big Man sub in off bench, if WSU go moderate normal size, if Marko a project.

Or Pollard/Kunc at 5, Elleby at 4, with Marko 1st big man sub in at 5, when, if WSU want to go small, if Marko a project.

Any way one looks at it, Marko is going to get a LOT of minutes at 4,5, whether as starter, 6th man,bench, etc, whether project or not.
 
Game is becoming more positionless all the time. It is more about what position you can defend, not height. James didnt transfer in to come off the bench.
 
Pollard has always been athletically limited by D 1 standards. However he is a high energy guy who is very smart,and has developed a limited skill set to the max. He has added the little jump hook which has been effective, and his free throw shooting has improved immensely.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mikalalas
This ignorant stream of consciousness is based on the stereotypes middle schoolers have about what it takes to make it in basketball. James is a 4 and will play more 5 than 3. Dick Bennett used Jeff Varem as a 5 despite Varem being only 6'6 (ironically the same height as point guard Marcus Moore). Smith is far more.concerned about the skills of his players than he is with the heights.

mikalalas said:
Newsflash: Capers(6' 5"), and James(6' 6"), and Ivory 6'5,1/2"), Weaver(6' 5,3/4") were all very similar height, weight, skillsets, athleticism, etc.

Also guess what they had in common:

They each either situationally started, or permanently started, or should either situationally start, semi permanently start at the 3(James case, permanently started at 4 at Colorado St.)

Ivory was bounced back and forth between starting at 4 and starting at 3, because that team didnt have prototypical 4 or 4's, so Ivory had to sometimes start at 4 and bounce back and forth between 3 and 4.Otherwise he would have started at the 3 permanently and been like Capers.

James might have gotten away with playing close to basket, or post up back to basket, at Colorado St, but wont at WSU.

I have seen a semi lot of James video, videos, and in the videos, he is making midrange jumpers, freethrows, 3 pointers, slashing, driving to basket, LOOKING LIKE A 3.

25% while not a good, great 3 point percentage, is a just barely semi almost ok, below average 3 point percentage, for a 4. And since he did play the 4 at Colorado St. He probably like you said, spent more time closer to basket instead of improving his 3 point shot. If he had started at 3 at Colorado, like he probably would have at most other programs, he probably would have shot about between 28 to 36% from 3 point range instead of 25% from 3 point range.

Also to put things into perspective, Gary Payton combo PG/SG for NBA sonics only shot about 26.5% from 3 point range for 1,2 seasons early in his NBA career.

Going by your logic about the 25% 3 point thing, about your point about James, and applying that to Gary Payton who was 6' 4 and 1/2" inches, Gary should have been either a 3,4 in college for OSU instead of 1,2 for OSU.

Also Capers shot even worse from 3 point range then James, and Ivory even worse then Capers from 3 point range

Also Weaver wasnt much better at 3 point range, then James, and had, has the same height (6' 5 and 1/2 in to 6 ft 5 and 3/4 in to 6 ft 6 in), weight, shooting ability or lack thereof, skillsets, talents, athleticism, etc, as Capers, Ivory, James, etc.

Weaver should have been a 3, but was needed at 2. Weaver could have also played all 3, 2,3,4 spots, just like Capers, Ivory, James, etc.

You see, whenever you get a player who is like a mix of has some of either Weaver, Capers, Ivory, James, etc, you have a player that is a 3, and can be a STRETCH back up 2, and a STRETCH back up 4, but that the spot they are most suited for is the 3 spot.

Because of this James will primarily play at the 3, and get moved around between 2,3,4, bench.

As far as Markovetsky.

Yes he is technically not a transfer, and is technically a freshman.

What you dont seem to me to get is that his international, olympic U20 teams, leagues, conferences, divisions, COMPETITION, ETC, is WAY THE HELL BETTER then MOST TO ALMOST all of the USA highschools, prepschools, AAU, CLUB, leagues, conferences, divisions, COMPETITIONS.

He Markovetsky has been playing basketball in a COLLEGE BASKETBALL like environment, overseas, for 1,2,3 years.

As such, even tho he is technically only a freshman, not a transfer, he is PRACTICALLY A TRANSFER, LIKE A TRANSFER, TRANSFERING FROM THAT OLYMPIC, COLLEGE BASKETBALL ENVIRONMENT to the COLLEGE BASKETBALL ENVIRONMENT here in USA.

That's almost no different between transfering from P5, Mid Major college, to another P5, mid major conference, and transfering from where he Markovetsky was at as s Freshman to where he will be as a college freshman.

So while he is technically a NCAA USA college freshman, he is sorta, kinda like the near equivalent of a transfer, sophmore.

Is he a project? I dont know, but I dont think so.

And even if he were to be a project, like you said the number of FRONT COURT STARTING BIGS, DEPTH, is EXTREMELY SMALL.

POLLARD, MARKOVETSKY, KUNC are the ONLY LIKELY starting BIGS at the 4,5.

And out of that, its likely that Pollard, Markovetsky start together at the 4,5 spots, even if Markovetsky were to be a project.

Sometimes you have to start a project at the 4,5 at WSU. This is probably one of those times, if he Markovetsky is a project.

So its either Marko, Pollard together at the 4,5, when, if WSU wants to go BIG.

Or Pollard, Kunc at the 4,5 spots, with Marko 6th man, 1st Big Man sub in off bench, if WSU go moderate normal size, if Marko a project.

Or Pollard/Kunc at 5, Elleby at 4, with Marko 1st big man sub in at 5, when, if WSU want to go small, if Marko a project.

Any way one looks at it, Marko is going to get a LOT of minutes at 4,5, whether as starter, 6th man,bench, etc, whether project or not.
Click to expand...
 
etowncoug said:
James is a 4 and will play more 5 than 3. Dick Bennett used Jeff Varem as a 5 despite Varem being only 6'6 (ironically the same height as point guard Marcus Moore). Smith is far more.concerned about the skills of his players than he is with the heights.
Click to expand...
That is a fact. And if you don't think Cannon will play a great deal you haven't listening to Coach Smith. There was after all a reason he went hard after Pollard and hard after Cannon.
 
  • Like
Reactions: etowncoug
jourdand said:
James is a power forward/ 4 it is pretty much all he played at Colorado State can’t imagine that would change this late in his career. He will be small for the 4 in the pac 12 but he can’t play the 2 and is not really suited
for the 3. Cannon also is not a 4 by any stretch of the imagination.

If I had to guess and this is a big guess the starters will be

1 Robinson
2 Cannon
3 Elleby
4 James/ Kunz
5 Pollard
Click to expand...
That's my guess although I don't see Kunc as a 4 unless he were to get a lot stronger and/or longer. Bench of Ali, Bonton, Kunc in the backcourt. Henson (who could maybe push James at the 4 and Markovetskyy due to need.
 
avabob1 said:
Game is becoming more positionless all the time. It is more about what position you can defend, not height. James didnt transfer in to come off the bench.
Click to expand...

Which is precisely, exactly why James will be moved around, play the 2,3,4 spots, so as to avoid LOGJAM at 3, and so as to be able to play, not sit on bench all the time.

At the time James was first gotten by WSU, there were players that didnt look like were coming back(Cannon).

If Cannon had not come back, James would be getting a LOT of starting/sub time at 2,3,4.

Also without Cannon, Rodman, etc, there wasnt DEPTH at the 3.

James was added to provide Quality Depth for the 3 spot, and 2,3, 4 spots, BEFORE and after Cannon came back, probably because Smith didnt know, think Cannon, coming back.

James will not start at the 4 over Pollard, Kunc, Elleby.

He James will either play at 2,3,4 spots, or sit on bench, even tho he wasnt recruited to sit on bench.
 
etowncoug said:
This ignorant stream of consciousness is based on the stereotypes middle schoolers have about what it takes to make it in basketball. James is a 4 and will play more 5 than 3. Dick Bennett used Jeff Varem as a 5 despite Varem being only 6'6 (ironically the same height as point guard Marcus Moore). Smith is far more.concerned about the skills of his players than he is with the heights.
Click to expand...

No way James plays at 5 spot. No way will James START at 4 spot over Pollard, Kunc, Elleby.

That is why James will be moved around, play 2,3,4 spots, to get playing time, because of LOGJAM at 3 spot, and because Pollard, Kunc, Elleby all better then James at the 4 spot.

Only reason why the Bennets didnt put Varem, Ivory at the 3 spot, and instead put at 3,4,5 spots, were, was because the 3 spot was Log Jammed, and because, before Baynes, Cowgil, there wasnt depth at 4,5.

Somebody had to play 4,5, even a combo 3,4 like Varem, Ivory.

If WSU, Bennets had players equal, almost as good, slightly less good, just barely not as good as Varem, Ivory, but that were 6' 7 and 3/4 in, 230 to 250, to 6' 11", 250+, they would have started, play at the 4,5 OVER Varem, Ivory.

Varem would not have started, played over that, just like James wont start over Pollard, Kunc, Elleby.

THE ONLY EXCEPTION, is when Kent occasionally at Oregon, and Sampson occasionally at WSU went with a 4 guard, WING, SF, with 6 ft, 3 in to 6 ft 6 in at the 4 spot, or when they want to go SMALL.

IF, when WSU wants to go SMALL, then James might probably split starting time at 4 with Elleby.

Only other coach who would play James at 4 over Pollard, Kunc, Elleby, would have been Bone who was wrong to try to play LODWICK at the 4, over better(YOUNG)4's, instead of at the 3 spot.
 
Cannon is better equipped to defend 2s and 3s. Havent seen James, but he dounds better ewuipp3d to defend 4s
 
7ICoug said:
That is a fact. And if you don't think Cannon will play a great deal you haven't listening to Coach Smith. There was after all a reason he went hard after Pollard and hard after Cannon.
Click to expand...

YEP, THIS ^^^^^^^^^

James will play by being moved around 2,3,4.

But James will not start at the 4 over Pollard, Kunc, Elleby, and will not start at the 4 EXCEPT for situationally, when, IF WSU goes SMALL And even then Cannon would either be at 2,3, and Elleby at 4, instead of Elleby at the 3, where he will normally be.

There is a LOGJAM at the 3, so Elleby normally starts at 3, occasionally starting, playing at 4 when WSU go small.

Because of that, Cannon will split starting time with Elleby at 3, and split starting time at 2, and will also move around, play at 2,3,4 spots, ahead of James, and like James.

James 3rd on the LOGJAMMED 3 spot, will be moved around 2,3,4, to get whatever playing time that can, should get.
 
Last edited:
avabob1 said:
Cannon is better equipped to defend 2s and 3s. Havent seen James, but he dounds better ewuipp3d to defend 4s
Click to expand...

IF, when Cannon plays at the 4 spot, it will be because he is around, about 6 ft 6 in. And to get playing time as either situational starter, 6th man, 1st man, instant offense off bench, etc.

Cannon, James are kind of in the same type of situation. Except Cannon is BETTER.

Both are best suited for 3, but Elleby, who is better then both Cannon, James, is at 3 already. So LOGJAM at 3.

The bottom line is Cannon is too good to either come off of bench, be on bench.

He needs to be on the court playing.

If that means he occasionally plays at the 4, so be it.

Yes James might probably be a better defender at the 4, then Cannon.

But just like you cant neglect defense, you cant, shouldnt neglect offense.

While Cannon is not as good defensively at the 4, then James, he Cannon is better ATHLETICALLY, OFFENSIVELY, AT 2,3, EVEN 4, then James.

That OFFENSE is SORELY NEEDED at the 2,3, EVEN THE 4 SPOT IF NECESSARY to get Cannon on court, to get Cannon playing time.

Look I am not saying Cannon is going to be a regular at the 4 spot.

Cannon will normally play at 3 spot, play some at 2 spot.

AND ON EXTREMELY RARE OCCASIONS WILL, WOULD PLAY 4 SPOT, ONLY when, IF WSU wants to go SMALL, IF Elleby is at the 3, etc, to get Cannon on the court, playing.

To and IF getting Cannon on court playing, whether at 4 spot, elsewhere, means that James does not play at 4 spot over Cannon, IF Cannon plays at 4 spot, then so be it, because Cannon's defense would be good enough, tho not as good as James, and Cannon's OFFENSE would be needed more the James defense at the 4.

If have to play Cannon at 2,4 spots for him to get on court, since Elleby at 3, then you do so, even if that displaces James, others.
 
SaveFerris said:
That's my guess although I don't see Kunc as a 4 unless he were to get a lot stronger and/or longer. Bench of Ali, Bonton, Kunc in the backcourt. Henson (who could maybe push James at the 4 and Markovetskyy due to need.
Click to expand...

Kunc is about, around 6 ft, 7 and 1/2 inches tall to 6 foot 7 and 2/3 rds to 3/4's inches tall to 6 ft 8 inches tall. And about 219 to 223 to 225 to 227 pounds.

That is PROTYPICAL 4 SPOT HEIGHT, WEIGHT.

To put things into perspective CASTO was about the same height at 6 ft 8 in. And not much more heavier, and Casto played both 4,5 but primarily 5.

Kunc might occasionally play the 3 spot, but probably wont, because 3 spot is LOGJAMMED ENOUGH with Elleby, Cannon, James, Rodman, Noah Williams.

And no way Kunc plays at the 2 spot, unless WSU ever, IF ever goes super BIG.

And JAMES IS SMALLER BOTH HEIGHT, WEIGHT THEN KUNC AND IS LESS BETTER AT 4 SPOT THEN KUNC would be.

Like I said James USUALLY will NOT start over Pollard, Marko, Kunc, Elleby, at the 4 spot.

UNLESS, EXCEPT IF WSU WANTS TO GO SMALL AT ALL, MOST, SOME POSITION.

But that is the EXCEPTION, NOT the NORM.
 
All this 2 3 4 stuff makes me long for the days when we had forwards guards and a center.
 
7ICoug said:
That is a fact. And if you don't think Cannon will play a great deal you haven't listening to Coach Smith. There was after all a reason he went hard after Pollard and hard after Cannon.
Click to expand...

Also anybody who think James would play at the 5 spot more then 3 spot and also play at 4,5 spots OVER MARKO, POLLARD, KUNC AT THE 5 SPOT AND POLLARD, KUNC, ELLEBY, MARKO AT THE 4 SPOT, EXCEPT AS EXTREMELY RARE EXCEPTION, IS DELUSIONAL
 
mikalalas said:
Kunc is about, around 6 ft, 7 and 1/2 inches tall to 6 foot 7 and 2/3 rds to 3/4's inches tall to 6 ft 8 inches tall. And about 219 to 223 to 225 to 227 pounds.

That is PROTYPICAL 4 SPOT HEIGHT, WEIGHT.

To put things into perspective CASTO was about the same height at 6 ft 8 in. And not much more heavier, and Casto played both 4,5 but primarily 5.

Kunc might occasionally play the 3 spot, but probably wont, because 3 spot is LOGJAMMED ENOUGH with Elleby, Cannon, James, Rodman, Noah Williams.

And no way Kunc plays at the 2 spot, unless WSU ever, IF ever goes super BIG.

And JAMES IS SMALLER BOTH HEIGHT, WEIGHT THEN KUNC AND IS LESS BETTER AT 4 SPOT THEN KUNC would be.

Like I said James USUALLY will NOT start over Pollard, Marko, Kunc, Elleby, at the 4 spot.

UNLESS, EXCEPT IF WSU WANTS TO GO SMALL AT ALL, MOST, SOME POSITION.

But that is the EXCEPTION, NOT the NORM.
Click to expand...
Casto was listed at 255 as a junior, James was listed at 220 last year, and Kunc is listed at 198 on the roster. Weight aside there's really no comparison to Casto in terms of strength compared to Kunc at this point. Kunc's has played on the wing.

I think a lot of positions are somewhat fluid at this point. We don't have a lot of "post" depth for next year. We are going to depend on Pollard at the 4 or 5 who up to this point has been more of a backup. I think people are making too much of Deion James reported height. Whether he's 6'6" or 6'8" he's always been more of an interior player.
 
avabob1 said:
All this 2 3 4 stuff makes me long for the days when we had forwards guards and a center.
Click to expand...

Ok Bob, James wont start at Power Forward(4 spot), over Pollard, Kunc, Elleby, Marko

and

James wont start at CENTER(5 spot), over Marko, Pollard, Kunc

EXCEPT AS A RARE EXCEPTION, like injuries, an IF WSU ever wants to go SMALL.

James will move around, play at Wing/Guard/Small Forward(3 spot), Shooting Guard(2 spot), and Power Forward(4 spot), in order to get playing time, and not be on bench.

There you go Bob. All in Shooting Guard, Small Forward, Power Forward, Center, etc, instead of 2,3,4 spots.
 
SaveFerris said:
Casto was listed at 255 as a junior, James was listed at 220 last year, and Kunc is listed at 198 on the roster. Weight aside there's really no comparison to Casto in terms of strength compared to Kunc at this point. Kunc's has played on the wing.

I think a lot of positions are somewhat fluid at this point. We don't have a lot of "post" depth for next year. We are going to depend on Pollard at the 4 or 5 who up to this point has been more of a backup. I think people are making too much of Deion James reported height. Whether he's 6'6" or 6'8" he's always been more of an interior player.
Click to expand...

I have no problems with James playing the 4 spot, IF THERE IS NO ONE BETTER THERE IN FRONT OF HIM.

But Marko, Pollard, Kunc, Elleby are better then James at the 4 spot, and Marko, Pollard, Kunc, are better then James at the 5 spot. And IF have to rarely, uncommonly, occasionally play Cannon at 4 spot to get Cannon on court, displacing James even more, then you do so.

And that means that James will not start at the 4 spot, 5 spot, LOGICALLY, RATIONALLY, REASONABLY, SENSICALLY, ETC speaking.

The exceptions to that, is if there are injuries, or IF WSU wants to go SMALL.
 
James is a power forward more commonly known today as a 4 man, he may see some time at the 5 simply based on need. He does not have the skill set to play the small forward / 3 spot. Positions can’t be based on height. I’m very happy we signed Markovetsky but I doubt he sees much time this year. Pollard is the 5 and James is the projected 4 no matter how long and rambling Mikalalas’s posts are!
 
Show, Cite, Quote me at least 1, Multiple, CREDIBLE sources that Project James over Pollard, Kunc, and sometimes Elleby at the 4, when he not at the 3, when, if WSU want to go smaller.

You probably wont find one.

And thats because James is NOT Better then Marko, Pollard, Kunc, Elleby at the 4 spot.

And until, if you do find such a source, projecting James at the 4, then until, if then I am not thinking James starts at the 4 spot.

Plays at the 4 spot yes, stsrts at the 4 spot NO

I guess we will either have to agree to disagree, an or wait until you either provide a credible source, or if James starts at the 4.

But I have got logical, reasonable, rational, sensical, comparisons, explanations,etc.

You on the other hand keep on saying that James is going to start at 4, with little to almost no explanation, or if, when you explain, doesnt make logical sense.
 
James is 6-6 and stocky. Kunc is 6-8 and skinny. I will ley others argue whether one is a 3.51and another is a 3.49
 
James is a FOUR! There is no other explanation needed! Kunc is best suited to play the 3 but will see time at the 4, only because Elleby will be the 3 and will not come off the floor very often. Now you are even saying Marko is a better option at the 4 spot than James? give me a break! In a normal year Marko would be a probable red shirt candidate.
 
Excuse me while I insert myself. There is no credible source anywhere that provides the starting lineup for WSU next year. Good lord, let's at least wait until fall practice begins. It doesn't need to be decided right now. All Jourdand is saying is that James has played as a power forward (4) in the past and is likely to play there most of the time this coming year. That also addresses a need the Cougars have at this time. Kunc is too light right now to get serious time up front....that's not his style of play. James is a decent rebounder and inside defender, which is why he will play up front most, if not all of the time. Does he start? Nobody knows, certainly Coach Smith won't commit to a starting lineup right now. WSU will need depth. The rotation will be just as important, if not more, than who gets to start the game.

By the way, Henson has not been part of this conversation. Is it possible he might play some in the front court?

Glad Cougar
 
Pretty hard to disagree glad. I also was thinking about Henson. Gotta think Pollard, Elleby, and Cannon are Day 1 starters. After that, who knows.

It did occur to me that it would be interesting to see Mikalalas analysis of whether Kevin Durant is a 2, 3, 4, 5.
 
This bizarre rants are funny and, at risk of wasting my time, I'll explain to you some of the ways you are off base. This list is by no means exhaustive.

1. Marko is a true 5. There is no way he plays at the 4 like you claim he will. No where has it been suggested he'll play anywhere other than center.

2. Elleby is a guard. He might play the 4 occasionally in lineups where we go small, but he's going to be handling the ball a lot and typically this isn't done by 4's. Sticking him at the 4 would take away his best abilities.

3. Have you ever watched Kunc play? Dude is rail thin. He's at least a year plus away from being able to defend in the paint. Smith likes defense and Kunc is able to defend the wings well.

4. Pollard is going to be primarily a 5. He is extremely limited offensively other than an screener/rebounder. I don't see him getting a ton of minutes with the other true 5 on the floor.

5. James played both the 4 and 5 spots at Colorado St. Smith has said he's coming to play as a post. He might has the size of a 3 but his game is that of a 4 or 5.

6. Henson has a better game to play the 3 but our lack of posts will probably mean he plays as a stretch 4.

Watch the players play and let what they show you determine where you think they should play.

mikalalas said:
Show, Cite, Quote me at least 1, Multiple, CREDIBLE sources that Project James over Pollard, Kunc, and sometimes Elleby at the 4, when he not at the 3, when, if WSU want to go smaller.

You probably wont find one.

And thats because James is NOT Better then Marko, Pollard, Kunc, Elleby at the 4 spot.

And until, if you do find such a source, projecting James at the 4, then until, if then I am not thinking James starts at the 4 spot.

Plays at the 4 spot yes, stsrts at the 4 spot NO

I guess we will either have to agree to disagree, an or wait until you either provide a credible source, or if James starts at the 4.

But I have got logical, reasonable, rational, sensical, comparisons, explanations,etc.

You on the other hand keep on saying that James is going to start at 4, with little to almost no explanation, or if, when you explain, doesnt make logical sense.
Click to expand...
 
Pollard, Elleby, Ali,Cannon,and James start. The newly recruited guys are a bunch of hopes and really incomplete players. The recruiting has been basically a joke for this year.The dufus is lucky that Cannon and Ali decided to return.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT
Top Bottom
Back