3 BAD CALLS

[mikalalas]

About 50% to 85% of the blame for the loss is on WSU's bad 3 point shooting, and Turnovers.

But despite that, WSU had a chance to win.

There were 3 BAD CALLS by the REFS, that resulted in 6 ASU points.

About 25% to 50% of the blame for the loss is on that, as if that doesnt happen WSU likely wins by 3 to 5 points.

The 3 Bad calls were:

1. Efe went to set a screen, and before he could roll or do anything. Verge GRABS Efe and moves him, and Refs wrong call a moving screen foul on Efe, when they should have called a foul on Verge for grabbing Efe and moving him.

Asu then got the ball as the result of that BLOWN call, and of course scored 2 points.

2. Remy tried to Drive on Noah Williams a LOCKDOWN DEFENDER WHO LOCKED REMY DOWN ALL GAME.

Noah stopped him by forcing Remy right to his right hand, and with using good lateral quickness to stay in front of Remy. Since Remy couldnt beat Noah, Remy PUT OUT HIS HAND AND PUSHED, SHOVED OFF NOAH WITH HIS HAND.

The REFS WRONGLY called a blocking foul on Noah, instead of making the right call which would have been to either no call, or call Remy for the Shove off on Noah.

3. Kunc was standing stock, stiff, still, not moving, with his arms and hands straight up in a DONT SHOOT ME position.

Not sure if he was in the circle in the paint under the basket.

Verge or Remy put their head and shoulder down, and just RAN KUNC OVER, who was just standing there, not moving, with his arms, hands straight up in the please dont shoot me position.

TOTALLY FREAKING EASY OBVIOUS CHARGE CALL ON REMY, VERGE.

But oh wait the BAD REFS, call the blocking foul on Kunc.

Unbelievable.

Freaking rediculous.

Its like the Refs dont care about getting the calls right. Itsvlike the ASSume that since Remy is such a good player that ALL calls go Remy's way, whether right or wrong.

This kind of crap happened last game vs ASU.

With Noah getting 4 blocking fouls called on him, when Remy tried to drive on Noah, when at least 1 should have been called a charging foul.

The freaking effin FAVORITISM, ASSUMPTIONS by the Refs needs to stop.

They need to call it both ways(They dont, they didnt).

They need to make the right calls, not blow calls.

Especially at Pac 12 Tourny time.

This kind of craap pisses me off.

And if any of you wonder where I got this.

The announcers got this from watching all the Replay angles.

It was the announcers who said Verge was grabbing, moving Efe on the screen.

It was the announcers who said that Remy was Shoving Noah.

It was the announcers who said that Kunc was just standing there, not moving, with his arms, hands straight up in the please dont shoot me position, when Verge, or Remy RAN him over.

Total BS REFS, and Total BS bad calls.

RANT OVER

 

[Observer11]

21 turnovers make the 3 bad calls irrelevant.

 

[mikalalas]

21 turnovers make the 3 bad calls irrelevant.

The Bad calls would be irrelevant IF WSU had lost by about 6 to 11 points.

In such a extremely close game, BAD CALLS can and do decide CLOSE games.

Saying its irrelevant, just continues to MAKE EXCUSES, and EXECUSES BAD CALLS, and just invites the BAD REFS to Continue DICKING, SCREWING WSU over with BAD CALLS, that do help decide CLOSE games.

FACT IS THAT WITHOUT THOSE 3 BAD CALLS, WSU WINS BY ABOUT 2,3,4,5 POINTS.

Thats just as much of a true fact as if WSU didnt ONLY make 3,4 3 pointers all game long, WSU would have won.

And as true as if WSU didnt have so many turnovers, then WSU would have won.

Also to be fair, ASU forced some of those turnovers.

The thing that is so bad ablut those bad calls helping to decide the game, is that at least with Turnovers, Shooting, that can be improved, unlike BAD CALLS.

BAD CALLS cant be avoided, etc. And when, if they happen, your at the mercy of them, and there is nothing you can do about it.

And thats why BAD CALLS are so bad when they help decide games.

Stop defending the BAD CALLS.

Because in a way that is what you are indirectly doing.

 

[jourdand]

The game was officiated better than most PAC 12 games imo. I’m sure ASU fans thought Remmy was getting clubbed on some of his drives. Not sure what you watched or listened to but on the PAC 12 network Don McLean had no problem with any of the calls and said the moving screen on Efi was absolutely a foul and Efi needed to be smarter than that.

 

[mikalalas]

The game was officiated better than most PAC 12 games imo. I’m sure ASU fans thought Remmy was getting clubbed on some of his drives. Not sure what you watched or listened to but on the PAC 12 network Don McLean had no problem with any of the calls and said the moving screen on Efi was absolutely a foul and Efi needed to be smarter than that.

Well Chaz and Ehlo said different then Don, after they reviewed, rewatched every replay angle over and over.

Gona take their word over sime Don McLean former UCLA player hack, who probably was the beneficiary of many a blown call by refs playing favoritism for UCLA.

 

[mikalalas]

It was Chaz and Ehlo who both said that Verge(Dont know how to spell his name), GRABBED, MOVED EFE, WHEN, AS EFE SET THE SCREEN. So of course Efe was moving, but not of his own volition.

Its kind of akin to how in football, a DLineman gets thrown into the QB after QB throws ball, by a O lineman, and the Ref instead of either no call or flagging the O Lineman, wrongly calls the DL for roughing the passer.

Verge GRABBED EFE, and moved him, so it should have been either a non call or calling the foul on Verge, for grabbing Efe, while Efe was setting the screen.

Since Chaz and Ehlo and crew saw that, dont see how the Ref, and Don Mclean cant see that.

 

[spongeandshoot]

Whining about the refs when we did everything within our power to give ASU the game in the last 2 minutes is ridiculous.

If the calls were really that bad, then it is our fault that we let the officials decide the game by turning the ball over and crap shot selection.
.

 

[mikalalas]

As far as your point about how ASU fans maybe could say that MAYBE, MAYBE NOT, MAYBE Remy was clubbed on his drives and didnt get calls like he should.

1. There is a big difference between getting fouled and not getting calls, and having Remy SHOVE Noah, and Noah the one who got SHOVED by Remy gets the foul called on him.

If the Refs arent calling fouls, where foul calls are warranted, and doing that both ways, then in a way that is fair and ok.

2. Noah is a LOCK DOWN Defender that doesnt shut down players like Remy by fouling them.

3. Noah was playing man vs Remy all night and locked him down, without fouling him.

4. Chaz and Ehlo and WSU broadcast crew said nothing about Noah fouling Remy over and over.

5. If Noah had been fouling Remy over and over Chaz and crew would have eventually said something about it.

6. The reason why Remy Shoved Noah, was because of how he couldnt beat Noah, not only on that play, but the other plays, and did so out of frustration, trying to force drive to score.

If Noah was fouling Remy, Remy would probably try to draw a foul, instead of SHOVING Noah.

7. There is a difference in if ASU fans were to say Remy was fouled all night, bit didnt get the calls, and CHAZ and CREW saying that Remy SHOVED NOAH.

8. I am not saying this. CHAZ AND CREW SAID REMY SHOVED NOAH, ETC, AND THAT THE FOUL SHOULD HAVE BEEN CALLED ON REMY NOT NOAH.

9. Chaz and crew: A. Watched the replay angles over and over.

B. They said that Noah forced Remy to go right, and then Remy went right. Then Noah used his lateral quickness to stay in front of him Remy, and that Noah was set in front of Remy, and that Remy had nowhere to go with the Ball in his right hand, and that he was stopped, and then Remy reached out his left hand, his offhand, as he dribbled with his right hand, and shoved Noah with his open left off open hand palm. And then a split second right then the Refs WRONGLY called the foul on Noah, instead of RIGHTLY calling the foul on Remy for SHOVING NOAH.

THEY CHAZ AND BROADCAST CREW SAID THAT OVER AND OVER AND OVER AFTER WATCHING AND REWATCHING THE REPLAY OVER AND OVER AND OVER.

THE REFS BLEW THOSE 3 CALLS, AND DONNY UCLA BOY BLEW IT AS WELL BY NOT CALLING ATTENTION TO IT.

 

[mikalalas]

Whining about the refs when we did everything within our power to give ASU the game in the last 2 minutes is ridiculous.

If the calls were really that bad, then it is our fault that we let the officials decide the game by turning the ball over and crap shot selection.
.

I agree with your point about turnovers. And there was 1,2,3, a couole, few, some, bad shots, BUT a lot of the 3 point shots were WIDE OPEN, decent, ok 3 point shots that WSU players just missed, had a VERY BAD 3 point shooting night.

The Shot selection wasnt bad or that bad. WSU players just PLUM missed some decent, ok 3 point shot.

The crazy thing is that Bonton made a badly selected VERY DEEP 3 point shot, while Kunc, Efe, etc, missed open 3's.

 

[702coug]

Dude, Kunc missed like 10-3‘s in a row and turned it over constantly. This game was a dumper from the jump.

 

[CougPatrol]

In the last 3 minutes, with the game on the line, the refs let the players decide the outcome. Our players imploded.

 

[mikalalas]

Your still DEFENDING BAD CALLS

 

[jourdand]

So you admit to not seeing the game but only listening to the WSU hired broadcasters! Maybe you should watch the game and then decide? If you didn’t watch the game your analysis is worthless.

 

[spongeandshoot]

I agree with your point about turnovers. And there was 1,2,3, a couole, few, some, bad shots, BUT a lot of the 3 point shots were WIDE OPEN, decent, ok 3 point shots that WSU players just missed, had a VERY BAD 3 point shooting night.

The Shot selection wasnt bad or that bad. WSU players just PLUM missed some decent, ok 3 point shot.

The crazy thing is that Bonton made a badly selected VERY DEEP 3 point shot, while Kunc, Efe, etc, missed open 3's.

I should clarify. I meant bad shots taken down the stretch. I didn't see a good portion of the game due to a crappy feed.

I probably started watching shortly before Bonton hit that shot

 

[spongeandshoot]

Your still DEFENDING BAD CALLS

No.

I think whining about bad calls is bush league and I don't think we have the right to whine about bad calls when we turn the ball over 20 plus times and play some of the worst ball I have ever seen down the stretch.

We need to worry about what we can control. And that is not the refs.

 

[jourdand]

BINGO!!!!

 

[mikalalas]

So you admit to not seeing the game but only listening to the WSU hired broadcasters! Maybe you should watch the game and then decide? If you didn’t watch the game your analysis is worthless.

Chaz like Bob Robertson is very accurate, credible, descriptive, breaks down what happened, and tells you what happened.

Bob Roberston and Chaz both dont call out a blown call in both football and basketball unless ot either happened or probably happened.

And Chaz watches Replay to make sure he gets it right.

What I described about what happened when Remy SHOVED Noah, was a PARAPHRASED EXTREMELY DESCRIPTIVE description of what CHAZ extremely descriptively described of what happened according to what Chaz said what happened.

Chaz is extremely PROFESSIONAL. He sees, describes, reacts, etc, everything well. He watches the replay over and over again, to make sure he is getting it right. And he almost always gets it right.

Chaz is EXTREMELY CREDIBLE.

And its not just Chaz, he has Ehlo and his entire broadcast crew to help him get it right.

And I did hear him right. And they didnt just say it once. They spent a number of minutes on it. And I heard them say what they said over and over.

I am NOT misrepresenting what Chaz and Crew said.

Chaz saying this happened, and describing what happened blow by blow, in a extremely descriptive way, etc, is good enough for me.

And it should be good enough for you and everybody else, and at least for coug fans who are familiar with Chaz, Bob Robertson, etc.

 

[mikalalas]

If this was, or if it had been Bud Namek, then I would be skeptical, take it with a grain of Salt because BUD NAMEK unlike Chaz was CONSTANTLY crying blown calls, and was kind of like the boy who cried wolf.

Also Bud Namek either didnt have the replay they have now, or if he did, he didnt use it.

Also Bud Namek, didnt have the crew Chaz has to help him.

So if it had been Bud Namek, instead if Chaz, then yeah not credible, take with grain of salt.

But Chaz, like Bob Robertson, is very credible, etc.

I'll take Chaz, Bob Roberston, etc, over Donny UCLA boy any day.

 

[jourdand]

I watched the game and made up my own mind, you should try it sometime.

maybe if some of our 3 to 7 or 8 low end 3 high end 8 future NBA draft picks had taken better care of the ball or shot better we would be playing tomorrow morning.

 

[mikalalas]

I watched the game and made up my own mind, you should try it sometime.

maybe if some of our 3 to 7 or 8 low end 3 high end 8 future NBA draft picks had taken better care of the ball or shot better we would be playing tomorrow morning.

Maybe if Direct Tv either has, had Pac 12 Network(Maybe they do have it, maybe it is premium and cost $35 to $200 more. I dont know), I would have watched it.

I checked the standard network channels, the cable and satelite channels, the sports channels, Root Sports, FS1, ESPN, etc.

I checked online. Found nothing.

So I listened to the IMG, Chaz broadcast.

But even if I had been able to watch the game on TV, would have done so, but synced with Chaz, IMG, while watching the game on TV, and not Donny UCLA boy.

 

[SaveFerris]

The game was officiated better than most PAC 12 games imo. I’m sure ASU fans thought Remmy was getting clubbed on some of his drives. Not sure what you watched or listened to but on the PAC 12 network Don McLean had no problem with any of the calls and said the moving screen on Efi was absolutely a foul and Efi needed to be smarter than that.

There's no question that was a moving screen. It was more like a blocking screen. Not sure I Remy at least on a few occasions. On one of Kunc's fouls he jumps into him with his shoulder and gets an and-1. Athletic and skilled but looking at the replay it was pretty clear. The officials of course don't have the benefit of replay so I get it.

I finally have come to terms with the charge calls. If the arm is extended at all even just to balance it's a charge. Did not like the call on Jackson early but that's the call even though it looked to me that Graham flopped a bit. We got those same calls.

We lost because we couldn't manage turnovers. Bonton looked better but I think he was still impacted at times by the ankle. He gave up the ball a lot. If he doesn't hurt the ankle I think we could have had a couple more wins including today.

 

[mikalalas]

There's no question that was a moving screen. It was more like a blocking screen. Not sure I Remy at least on a few occasions. On one of Kunc's fouls he jumps into him with his shoulder and gets an and-1. Athletic and skilled but looking at the replay it was pretty clear. The officials of course don't have the benefit of replay so I get it.

I finally have come to terms with the charge calls. If the arm is extended at all even just to balance it's a charge. Did not like the call on Jackson early but that's the call even though it looked to me that Graham flopped a bit. We got those same calls.

We lost because we couldn't manage turnovers. Bonton looked better but I think he was still impacted at times by the ankle. He gave up the ball a lot. If he doesn't hurt the ankle I think we could have had a couple more wins including today.

Of course it looked like a moving screen, because Verge GRABBED Efe, and moved Efe, while Efe was setting the screen.

For those who didnt see the grab by verge, its going to look like Efe made a illegal moving screen.

Chaz and Ehlo and crew all said Verge grabbed Efe. They said that at first it did look like a legit moving screen on EFe call, but that after they reviewed all the replay angles, they saw that Verge had clearly grabbed Efe, moved Efe, while Efe was setting that screen, and that that was why it looked like a moving screen.

It akin to how a O lineman throws a DL into the QB, and everybody thinks the DL roughed the passer.

Chaz said Remy clearly shoved Noah.

On the Kunc call, not sure if Kunc was in the circle.

If I understand it right, supposedly you can be standing still, not be moving, have your arms, hands up in the please dont shoot me position, and be totally run over and either no call or blocking foul IF YOUR STANDING IN THE CIRCLE(Think its a stupid rule), unferneath the basket.

Not sure if Kunc was in the circle or not as Chaz didnt say anything about whether he was in the circle or not.

But if he wasnt in the circle, that was a clear charging foul, with Remy putting his head and shoulder down and running over poor kunc who was just innovently standing there minding his own business.

At least thats what Chaz said after watching the replay.

So I'll go by that.

Perhaps you and others only saw Efe moving on the screen and didnt see Verge grabbing, moving Efe while Efe set the screen, like what Chaz said what happened.

 

[SaveFerris]

Of course it looked like a moving screen, because Verge GRABBED Efe, and moved Efe, while Efe was setting the screen.

For those who didnt see the grab by verge, its going to look like Efe made a illegal moving screen.

Chaz and Ehlo and crew all said Verge grabbed Efe. They said that at first it did look like a legit moving screen on EFe call, but that after they reviewed all the replay angles, they saw that Verge had clearly grabbed Efe, moved Efe, while Efe was setting that screen, and that that was why it looked like a moving screen.

It akin to how a O lineman throws a DL into the QB, and everybody thinks the DL roughed the passer.

Chaz said Remy clearly shoved Noah.

On the Kunc call, not sure if Kunc was in the circle.

If I understand it right, supposedly you can be standing still, not be moving, have your arms, hands up in the please dont shoot me position, and be totally run over and either no call or blocking foul IF YOUR STANDING IN THE CIRCLE(Think its a stupid rule), unferneath the basket.

Not sure if Kunc was in the circle or not as Chaz didnt say anything about whether he was in the circle or not.

But if he wasnt in the circle, that was a clear charging foul, with Remy putting his head and shoulder down and running over poor kunc who was just innovently standing there minding his own business.

At least thats what Chaz said after watching the replay.

So I'll go by that.

Perhaps you and others only saw Efe moving on the screen and didnt see Verge grabbing, moving Efe while Efe set the screen, like what Chaz said what happened.

Watch how Vova’ set screens today. He would get clearly set and remain set until Bonton/Noah or whoever was gone. He has had trouble with not releasing too early to roll to the basket. I’ll look again but it didn’t look to me on the replay that Efe was ever set.

 

[7ICoug]

Anybody who blames losses on the ref's when the team, shoots horrible, makes horrible turnovers is just making excuses and is a homer. I am a homer in my own living room or the stands, but frankly this game was lost by the players. Noah was awful. Kunc had his worst game in 10, AJ is too slow, Rapp is too slow. Efe is still too young.

Bonton was his typical stud, went from 75% to his normal 39 minutes which is 5 too many. The good news is that Ghost, Mikes, and most of all Jefferson are all in next year. Dishon Jackson is a bright spot, his 2 shots from the midrange and that will make him a force in the future.

 

[spongeandshoot]

Well...according to Jim Walden there was holding on every play. So there's that.

 

[SaveFerris]

Anybody who blames losses on the ref's when the team, shoots horrible, makes horrible turnovers is just making excuses and is a homer. I am a homer in my own living room or the stands, but frankly this game was lost by the players. Noah was awful. Kunc had his worst game in 10, AJ is too slow, Rapp is too slow. Efe is still too young.

Bonton was his typical stud, went from 75% to his normal 39 minutes which is 5 too many. The good news is that Ghost, Mikes, and most of all Jefferson are all in next year. Dishon Jackson is a bright spot, his 2 shots from the midrange and that will make him a force in the future.

Jackson had an impressive line. Unfortunately foul trouble limited him to 19 minutes. I think he will continue to extend his range outside but he’s already become an inside force.

 

[mikalalas]

Jackson had an impressive line. Unfortunately foul trouble limited him to 19 minutes. I think he will continue to extend his range outside but he’s already become an inside force.

If Dischon Jackson develops a 36% 3 point shot, and a semi consistent 13,14,15,16, etc, foot midrange jumper, and continues to develop his jump hook, post moves, back to basket, etc, he will continue to be, and be even more of a force to be reckoned with.

Dischon Jackson has both held his own, and semi dominated the USC player(Forget his name), that is going to be a Top 2 Lottery pick in the first round of NBA draft in both games vs USC, and against him in AAU.

He is averaging about 8 points and 9 rebounds, and is Pac 12 honorable mention all freshmen team nominee, and a honorable mention in the race for Pac 12 freshman of the year, and in the race for Pac 12 defensive freshman of the year.

He has been the Pac 12 player of the week, and has been the Pac 12 freshman player of the week.

There is no doubt, that if Dischon had started, gotten 40 minutes per game, from gane 1, his stats would be even better, and he would have been more then honorable mention runner up and would have won those awards, accolades.

And you dont do all that if your not a POTENTIAL FUTURE POTENTIAL NBA PROSPECT, and dont have a bright future in Bball in both WSU bball, and Pro ball whether overseas or NBA.

Dischon Jackson is going to be a force to be reckoned with his Sophmore year, and if for some strange reason not in his Sophmore year, definitely by his Junior year at worst.

 

[jourdand]

So just listened to the radio broadcast on the WSU main site. This is available to anybody who wants to listen. On Efe’s moving screen call, Ehlo says It looked like Verge pulled Efe into him. Chaz never said it and never mentioned the foul at all not one way or the other. They certainly didn’t make a big deal about it being a bad call and Ehlo finished by saying if Efe spins to the basket he might have gotten a different call.

 

[Glad Cougar]

If Dischon Jackson develops a 36% 3 point shot, and a semi consistent 13,14,15,16, etc, foot midrange jumper, and continues to develop his jump hook, post moves, back to basket, etc, he will continue to be, and be even more of a force to be reckoned with.

Dischon Jackson has both held his own, and semi dominated the USC player(Forget his name), that is going to be a Top 2 Lottery pick in the first round of NBA draft in both games vs USC, and against him in AAU.

He is averaging about 8 points and 9 rebounds, and is Pac 12 honorable mention all freshmen team nominee, and a honorable mention in the race for Pac 12 freshman of the year, and in the race for Pac 12 defensive freshman of the year.

He has been the Pac 12 player of the week, and has been the Pac 12 freshman player of the week.

There is no doubt, that if Dischon had started, gotten 40 minutes per game, from gane 1, his stats would be even better, and he would have been more then honorable mention runner up and would have won those awards, accolades.

And you dont do all that if your not a POTENTIAL FUTURE POTENTIAL NBA PROSPECT, and dont have a bright future in Bball in both WSU bball, and Pro ball whether overseas or NBA.

Dischon Jackson is going to be a force to be reckoned with his Sophmore year, and if for some strange reason not in his Sophmore year, definitely by his Junior year at worst.

I'm as excited about Dishon Jackson as I am about any other player on WSU. He has come so far along this freshman year. But he was never a Pac-12 player of the week this year. I can see it happening in the future, though.

Glad Cougar