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anyone else count the scholarships....I have 81 now.
Tapa and Bartley, both d-linemen, are gone. Sakaria, an O-lineman, and Romello Harris, a RB, also are gone. Tapa's loss will be felt. We are paper thin on interior d-linemen.
I hadn't seen that news on Bartley. Where are you seeing that?
Ya, I missed him counting up the roster. Missing 4 after being at 85 would make 81. Don't like losing promising d-linemen.Tapa and Bartley, both d-linemen, are gone. Sakaria, an O-lineman, and Romello Harris, a RB, also are gone. Tapa's loss will be felt. We are paper thin on interior d-linemen.
Tapa and Bartley, both d-linemen, are gone. Sakaria, an O-lineman, and Romello Harris, a RB, also are gone. Tapa's loss will be felt. We are paper thin on interior d-linemen.
"Bartley said defensive line coach Joe Salave’a played a huge role in his decision.
"Coach Joe, he was definitely a big factor for me committing there," said Bartley. "He is a man I would hands down play for.""
what happened with Tapa?Tapa and Bartley, both d-linemen, are gone. Sakaria, an O-lineman, and Romello Harris, a RB, also are gone. Tapa's loss will be felt. We are paper thin on interior d-linemen.
what happened with Tapa?
what happened with Tapa?
Grades. He was going to be ineligible this year anyway.
Grades. He was going to be ineligible this year anyway.
Tapa and Bartley, both d-linemen, are gone. Sakaria, an O-lineman, and Romello Harris, a RB, also are gone. Tapa's loss will be felt. We are paper thin on interior d-linemen.
I know that I've gotten some grief for my comments about recruiting too many OL players, but DL depth was a specific area where I thought we could be using an extra scholarship each year. I agree with Yaki that given our good numbers on the OL, it might be appropriate to see if any of them have the feet and the moves to jump over to the DL.
With how hard we recruited Samoa, we've had a hard time keeping kids here. Coach Joe did recruit some beast, but struggled to get DL and really struggled to keep the DL we got in school. Isn't sour grapes, but we are in year 6 and our DL depth is still a major issue. Hopefully Phelps can change this.[/QUO
With how hard we recruited Samoa, we've had a hard time keeping kids here. Coach Joe did recruit some beast, but struggled to get DL and really struggled to keep the DL we got in school. Isn't sour grapes, but we are in year 6 and our DL depth is still a major issue. Hopefully Phelps can change this.
hahal, good one!The biggest downside (besides the hit to our DL depth) is the hit to our APR score.
While I've never thought it was an either-or emphasis in recruiting OL-DL, the one lineman I thought might be able to play either way was Fred Mauigoa, but he's clearly not leaving center. The coaches eventually moved Nick Begg to d-line, but he's still just 264 pounds.
A lot of us believed we would always struggle to have the OL quality and overall numbers in the current pipeline and that's been blown out of the water at this point. Finding the kind of DT/NTs we want for our defense may be a bigger challenge but it's not like we need 20 on the roster. With Tapa departing we really don't have a "true NT" on the roster. Ekuale is up to 315 or whatever. I am not sure that's what the defensive staff wanted ideally. We just have had too many misses at NT/DT over the last few cycles.considering that DT is pretty much THE position on defense, this has to be a premium for the entire staff to get, perhaps even #2 priority behind QB. The consistent lack of quality depth over CML/ Grinch/ Joe tenure IS concerning, and hopefully our midwest coach can recruit some of that midwest talent.
Again, to beat the dead horse - not sure running 34 is the best choice for a program that struggles getting talented recruits top to bottom and is competing with the big boys for the only kids in the nation who can play 2 gap NT.
What do you think accounts for those misses that we didn't have on Barber, Destiny, Eukale etc?A lot of us believed we would always struggle to have the OL quality and overall numbers in the current pipeline and that's been blown out of the water at this point. Finding the kind of DT/NTs we want for our defense may be a bigger challenge but it's not like we need 20 on the roster. With Tapa departing we really don't have a "true NT" on the roster. Ekuale is up to 315 or whatever. I am not sure that's what the defensive staff wanted ideally. We just have had too many misses at NT/DT over the last few cycles.
Ya, I missed him counting up the roster. Missing 4 after being at 85 would make 81. Don't like losing promising d-linemen.
The general difficulty projecting DTs?What do you think accounts for hose misses that we didn't have on Barber, Destiny, Eukale etc?
The general difficulty projecting DTs?
From Yaki's post:
2012: Destiny Vaeao, Robert Barber, Ioane Gauta
2013: Daniel Ekuale, Gerald Sterling, Paulo Lepua
2014: Ngalu Tapa
2015: Thomas Toki, T.J. Fehoko, Hunter Mattox
2016: Garrett McBroom, Lyric Bartley.
Out of those 12 players over 5 cycles 5 have played significantly and Mattox is essentially just getting started. Tapa and Toki flaming out or never making it in were tough misses but 5/6 out of 12 for arguably the toughest position to project is solid.
It's not like recruiting DBs where there is generally a decent supply ever year. Some years there just aren't as many prospects available. I don't know whether that's the case but the last 3 years we haven't done good enough bringing in NT/DTs. Would love us to find another Gauta late.
But is it better than ...
2008:
Bernard Wolfgramm
Josh Luapo
Anthony Laurenzi
2009:
Quayshawn Buckley
Brandon Rankin
Justin Clayton
2010:
Toni Pole
Xavier Cooper
Steve Hoffart
2011:
T.J. Poloai
David Davis
Four out of 11? (Rankin, a d-end whose career was ruined when forced to play inside; Pole, Cooper; Hoffart had a nice AC).
considering that DT is pretty much THE position on defense, this has to be a premium for the entire staff to get, perhaps even #2 priority behind QB. The consistent lack of quality depth over CML/ Grinch/ Joe tenure IS concerning, and hopefully our midwest coach can recruit some of that midwest talent.
Again, to beat the dead horse - not sure running 34 is the best choice for a program that struggles getting talented recruits top to bottom and is competing with the big boys for the only kids in the nation who can play 2 gap NT.
not that its a great comparison, but I'm liking it at least better than the 30 stack defense of yore.I was curious how the 34 would shake out at WSU. I hate it.
I see the staff bringing in kids on the DL that are taller. 6'4" and taller. Honestly, unless you're a Battle Cat, 6'3" and shorter just isn't enough. Not for WSU. They need guys that have long arms and legs. They need bodies that can grow from 245lbs to 285lbs. Just like Price taking tight ends and growing them to offensive linemen, Leach needs to just get taller athletes into school on the DL and let them grow.
It really is pretty simple. Get speed off the edge, the two largest human beings you can find to play in the middle, get linebackers that run to the football, wrap it up nice and neat and call it the Doba 43. It works. Do it.
Finding the kind of DT/NTs we want for our defense may be a bigger challenge but it's not like we need 20 on the roster.
I think you are underestimating how hard it is to find a true nose tackle. This is hard. Even the pros have trouble identifying good prospects for that position to draft. When they find a B.J. Raji or Hali Ngota he gets drafted early and makes a lot of money.
It isn't exactly easy to find a tall, rangy, athletic kid to use as a rush end, but it is a lot easier than finding a true nose guy who can take on double and triple teams and not give ground.
That said, that has always seemed like an advantage of sorts for you PAC programs over Southern teams. Well what I mean is you guys have an easier time recruiting Polynesian players than any other conference in the country.
It's too early my time to go PC for diplomatic purposes, but Polynesians are genetically prone to producing the kind of guy who can excel at that spot.
That doesn't mean Washington State will automatically be able to sign one of those guys, but I think your odds are better if you are running a 3-4 than even a school like Georgia, which is situated in a talent wonderland. Lot of players, but the kind you need for that spot doesn't come out of there often.
If you can find that nose guy, most teams don't seem to have problems finding enough athletic linebackers to make a 3-4 work. Lawrence Taylor types are hard to find, but relatively speaking you can sign guys who can generate a pass rush at OLB, even if they aren't going to be in the NFL Hall of Fame one day.
Someone mentioned the Midwest. Great place for offensive linemen. But not so good for finding 6'1" 320-330 pounds guys who aren't tubs of goo and have some mobility. (Course a lot of excellent tight end, linebacker, safety type talent comes from there too, so you really ought to find a way to get a pipeline somewhere there if you can. Been a number of dropback qb's too, but that isn't a recruiting issue for you honestly.)
There isn't an unlimited supply of OLM, DLM, or any position for that matter so I'm not underestimating the challenge especially at the nose. DT in general is probably the most difficult position to project to college IMO. We currently don't have one NT on the roster and that's an issue when you are running the 34 even though I wouldn't say we run a true 34. I think Ekuale should work fine at the NT but we are really thin at NT/DT.I think you are underestimating how hard it is to find a true nose tackle. This is hard. Even the pros have trouble identifying good prospects for that position to draft. When they find a B.J. Raji or Hali Ngota he gets drafted early and makes a lot of money.
It isn't exactly easy to find a tall, rangy, athletic kid to use as a rush end, but it is a lot easier than finding a true nose guy who can take on double and triple teams and not give ground.
That said, that has always seemed like an advantage of sorts for you PAC programs over Southern teams. Well what I mean is you guys have an easier time recruiting Polynesian players than any other conference in the country.
It's too early my time to go PC for diplomatic purposes, but Polynesians are genetically prone to producing the kind of guy who can excel at that spot.
That doesn't mean Washington State will automatically be able to sign one of those guys, but I think your odds are better if you are running a 3-4 than even a school like Georgia, which is situated in a talent wonderland. Lot of players, but the kind you need for that spot doesn't come out of there often.
If you can find that nose guy, most teams don't seem to have problems finding enough athletic linebackers to make a 3-4 work. Lawrence Taylor types are hard to find, but relatively speaking you can sign guys who can generate a pass rush at OLB, even if they aren't going to be in the NFL Hall of Fame one day.
Someone mentioned the Midwest. Great place for offensive linemen. But not so good for finding 6'1" 320-330 pounds guys who aren't tubs of goo and have some mobility. (Course a lot of excellent tight end, linebacker, safety type talent comes from there too, so you really ought to find a way to get a pipeline somewhere there if you can. Been a number of dropback qb's too, but that isn't a recruiting issue for you honestly.)
There isn't an unlimited supply of OLM, DLM, or any position for that matter so I'm not underestimating the challenge especially at the nose.