They didn't win a conference game last year. CougEd is a big fan of teams that don't win a conference game and have 2 wins or fewer so there you have it. That's his idea of success.
4-5-6
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They didn't win a conference game last year. CougEd is a big fan of teams that don't win a conference game and have 2 wins or fewer so there you have it. That's his idea of success.
I know. They were 1-8 in conference his first year and 0-9 last season. Was curious about the line Ed used about CU learning how to win.
Honestly, if we go 3-9, there should be a blowout of epic proportions around here. Words cannot express how extreme our failures would need to be for that to happen.
As others have said, our schedule is such that it's hard to imagine 3-9 happening. We have too many mediocre teams to play. The interesting thing about football is how subjective the viewpoints can be. Cal finished 5-7 but would have lost to WSU if we could have made a 19 yard field goal and had to come from behind to beat a bad Colorado team. Northwestern was not a good team last year and nearly beat the Bears after trailing 17-0 early. They did play some good teams tough and the result is that they are considered a team ready to turn the corner. Still, they are 9-27 in the last three seasons. That doesn't keep people from assuming that they are ready to make noise.
We were bad last year but making a few routine plays early might have flipped our 2-4 start into a 5-1 start. Heck, 6-0 was within reach if we could have made a few extra breaks against Oregon (and not got screwed by the refs). We were within one TD of Stanford in the fourth quarter. If we make a few plays instead of melting down, an upset win was possible even though we didn't really play that well in that game. If we can figure out how to do the little things right, we are going to have a good team. You wouldn't know that listening to all of the negativity in our program.
3-9 happening again should be considered an epic disaster and it would put Leach on the hot seat and rightfully so. The good news is that it will not happen. We are going to a bowl game this year. If we don't, it's going to be a close call at 5-7. Three years in a row, WSU has had an upset win over a team that few people expected us to beat. The question is whether or not we can start beating the teams that we should beat and getting more wins over the teams that are about equal to us.
There isn't a lot of negativity I can count on 1 hand the people that are negative here. Same on the other boards. From a national media perspective there are plenty of people that have optimism about the program from ESPN having us on the spoiler list to win the north, to people saying we aren't going to have the collapses we had last year, to others projecting a bowl game.
Our issues are clear and every single one has been addressed by the coaching staff is some way.
Cougcenter did a whole projection for their entire staff
1 person said 9-4
3 people said 8-5
5 people said 7-6
6 people said 5-7
2 person said 4-8
The average is 6-6 which is probably where we end up.
Half at Cougcenter think we will win 5 or less with no bowl...
So far, most on WW are predicting 6-6 or better.
I predict we will nearly double our win total.
You seem to be mis-interpreting the predictions
So far, most on WW are predicting 6-6 or better.
I predict we will nearly double our win total.
You seem to be mis-interpreting the predictions
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I am with you. I don't think last years team was as bad as it's record. There were negative things that happened that were anomalies and it would be hard to repeat. Things like missing a 19 yard FG. Not fair catching a punt and then fumbling the ball upon the hit. Six special teams TD's against.
I have been saying the same thing about Cal. Their defense is worse than the Cougars. They overplayed their second year under Dykes, much like the Cougars overplayed their second year under Leach.
Does what you write even make sense? To quote you, "Half at Cougcenter think we will win 5 or less with no bowl..."
Your very next sentence says, "most on WW are predicting 6-6 or better."
It doesn't make sense because he's some mentally ill guy who doesn't want us to succeed.
9 people think 6/6 or better (more than half)
6 people think we are in line with vegas at 5-7
and 2 people think we will do less.
Yes, that is true. There are 17 people at CC that made a prediction. 9 of them have WSU going to a bowl. All of them have WSU improving over last year. 15 of the 17 have WSU improving by at least two games.
Yes, I meant what I said, and it makes perfect sense. Thong seems to think this forum at (W)azzu(W)atch is a cesspool of negativity. In this poll on WW (Wazzu Watch) 86% of respondents think the Cougars are going to improve dramatically in the win column while 82% predict the Washington State University Cougar football team will improve dramatically... in the win column.
Thong then cites a poll of glowing positivity from COUGCENTER (Cougcenter to my knowledge, is NOT (W)azzu (W)atch but if it is, please, by all means post a link)... a poll in which half the respondents feel we won't make a bowl game...
I am simply pointing out his conclusion doesn't match his facts he presented.
Except more of the writers on CC (9) think that the Cougars make a bowl than won't (8). All of them think the Cougars will be better. 15 think the Cougar improve by at least two games. That is positive.
It depends on how you view the negativity I guess. Much of it is so passive that you don't even notice it. A lot of times, it is framed as "being realistic". A couple months ago, I was eviscerated for suggesting that Mike Leach should be on the hot seat if we finish 3-9 and we should start to contemplate whether or not he is the man for the job. A lot was made about how bad the situation was when Paul Wulff left and how little talent we still have compared to the rest of the teams in the conference. You can make a compelling argument that it is realistic to view the team in that light and that Mike Leach shouldn't be held accountable if we fail to make a bowl game because no coach could have done better than he has so far.
You can choose a different viewpoint where we have a lot of exciting young players who are learning and that given our schedule and our coach, we should start expecting wins over bottom feeder teams in our conference. You can look at our game against Rutgers and focus on the good things and assume that we are going to fix enough of the mistakes to win instead of lose. You can focus on the fact that a made field goal would have beaten Cal instead of worrying about the swiss cheese defense that we displayed that day at times. Many would say that is unrealistic.
Negativity versus realism is a very subjective discussion. There are times when I'm probably too negative about our future with Leach if we don't experience success this season. It's ironic that because I feel that Leach has done a lot of good things, I feel that we should make a bowl game this year. If we don't, it means that he hasn't improved things as much as I think he should have by now. Is that fair? I don't know. It's one of the great divides on this board. Is Leach a good coach who needs to prove that he is one by winning 6+ games this year? Or is he a good coach that deserves patience regardless of the results of this season? In the short term, I'm very positive with Leach and the team but I don't believe that we should stick with him if we continue to struggle. Many on this board are negative on the team right now but feel that the long term prospects are great and that people like myself need to look bigger picture.
So, long story short, there is a lot of negativity about the program amongst people in different ways.
You can choose to be negative if you want to... Me? I'm staying POSITIVE... I believe the Cougars will DOUBLE the number of D-1 FBS wins, 5 total.
With the exception of Portland State and *maybe* Wyoming, I don't think you can go down our schedule and pick off as many guaranteed wins & losses as we could in previous years.
Wyoming should be a win, but a couple of years ago (2013), Wyoming went to Nebraska and almost knocked off the Huskers, losing 37-34. Who knows where our heads will be after the Rutgers game. Lord knows I've seen us lay more than a few eggs against Mountain West / WAC teams over the years.
Oregon - They'll probably beat us soundly again given their talent advantage, but I think the Ducks are vulnerable this season. Despite their success last season, they still don't really know what they have in Helfrich. Like Doba in 2003, he inherited a damn good team. The loss of Mariotta will be felt hard, as will their green (pun intended) secondary.
Oregon State - It feels like every time we've played Oregon State over the past 15 years when we were supposed to handle them, the game is either lost or a very competitive win. Most fans are penciling this in as a win, but I'll bet this game is close. Just a hunch.
Stanford - The National pundits will write us off in this game, but I expect us to play as lively against the Cardinal as we did against Oregon last season. We finally (seemingly) have an offensive line that can withstand their pass rush, and Stanford isn't a team that typically outscores people. I could easily see us winning this game, but I'll stop short of predicting a win.
ASU - Not sure what to expect from the Sun Devils. They've handled us recently, but they also tend to lay an egg or two on the road each season. My concern about this one is that we play back-to-back home games vs. Stanford and ASU. It's going to be tough to peak for both.
Colorado - Like the Oregon State game, most Cougs have already added this to the win column. I think the Buffs are a tough matchup for us. They're great at QB, will score a lot of points, and we always draw bad at the gate for our last (non-apple cup) home games.
Wyoming should be a win, but a couple of years ago (2013), Wyoming went to Nebraska and almost knocked off the Huskers, losing 37-34. Who knows where our heads will be after the Rutgers game. Lord knows I've seen us lay more than a few eggs against Mountain West / WAC teams over the years.
Oregon - They'll probably beat us soundly again given their talent advantage, but I think the Ducks are vulnerable this season. Despite their success last season, they still don't really know what they have in Helfrich. Like Doba in 2003, he inherited a damn good team. The loss of Mariotta will be felt hard, as will their green (pun intended) secondary.
Oregon State - It feels like every time we've played Oregon State over the past 15 years when we were supposed to handle them, the game is either lost or a very competitive win. Most fans are penciling this in as a win, but I'll bet this game is close. Just a hunch.
Stanford - The National pundits will write us off in this game, but I expect us to play as lively against the Cardinal as we did against Oregon last season. We finally (seemingly) have an offensive line that can withstand their pass rush, and Stanford isn't a team that typically outscores people. I could easily see us winning this game, but I'll stop short of predicting a win.
ASU - Not sure what to expect from the Sun Devils. They've handled us recently, but they also tend to lay an egg or two on the road each season. My concern about this one is that we play back-to-back home games vs. Stanford and ASU. It's going to be tough to peak for both.
Colorado - Like the Oregon State game, most Cougs have already added this to the win column. I think the Buffs are a tough matchup for us. They're great at QB, will score a lot of points, and we always draw bad at the gate for our last (non-apple cup) home games.
All relevant points given what's happened in the past decade.
I will say that I remember when WSU played Wyoming in 1990. In 1989, we had beaten them 29-23 in Laramie and they had finished 5-6 overall. We crushed TCU 21-3 to open the 1990 season and the mood around campus was that we were going to crush Wyoming in week 2. They came in and stomped our guts out. I don't see that happening, but over-confidence is a bad deal for a marginal team. On the flip-side, I can see the same kind of issue hurting Rutgers. They beat us last year in our own house. They made a bowl game and we didn't. Let's say that they beat Norfolk State 56-10 and are a 7 point favorite against the Cougs. It would be real easy for them to overlook us a bit.
Regarding Rutgers, I don't see them overlooking us given what happened last season. We ran up and down the field on them, and I'm sure their coaches will remind them of that. Also, Rutgers isn't the type of program that gets overconfident against many teams. Like us, they're an afterthought by everyone in their region.
I was at that Wyoming game in Pullman, as I was for similar home beat downs against San Jose State, Idaho and Fresno State. I don't see us losing to Wyoming this season, but who knows? We've lost to Colorado State and Nevada in consecutive seasons.
Everybody wants to win today, but we have to close the gap in order to be competitive. So let's take a look if the gap is closing.
Over the last 3 years with Leach we've won 7 conference games.
Before Leach we've won 4 over 4 years.
So with Leach he's averaging over 2 conference wins and Wulff averaged 1. We hadn't beaten a single conference team with a winning record from 2008-2011, and in 2012 we did it. We hadn't been to a bowl game in a decade, and in year 2 we did it.
Last year the problems are well documented, and thus it's time to take another step forward.
We'll be lucky if we have more than 15k fans in the stands for that game.
My kingdom for a guaranteed road game every year on the Saturday before Thanksgiving.
Wait a minute... I am predicting we will DOUBLE the amount of D-1 FBS wins, year over year and you keep screaming at me in an uncontrollable emotional rage... that I have a negative outlook on our Cougars.
NOOOOOWWWWWWW.... you claim we have to close the gap in order to be competitive???
WTF?
So... you contention is... with WSU playing and in contention for FIRST place in the North, Cougar fans will bail and not support success at the last home game???
Double is fine, but we still have a ways to go to really cement ourselves as a major competitor in the Pac. We just aren't there yet. We are close enough to be about a 50/50 team more / less right now but we need a couple more years to make that jump to assert ourselves as a good team. Right now we are a mediocre team. Much better than BAD...comically bad like we were under Wulff.
A good example now for us is kind of what Mike Riley was doing his last 5 years.
5-7
7-6
9-4
3-9
5-7
That's kind of where we are. We haven't had the pop up to 9 wins, but that could come in a couple years but that's a good idea of kind of where we are as a program. We're just a bubble team that will be about 50/50 trying to get to that next breakout step.
Let me know when that happens, and we can reassess.
Until then, we have scores of evidence that the game that weekend will always be poorly attended unless it is an Apple Cup.
Hell, the day of the 2013 Utah game, a game in which we clinched a bowl berth for the first time in a decade, students were leaving en masse out of town. It was depressing.
Nevada has been very good for a very long time. Winning against them for any program is not a given.
I th
I think it is a process. Looking at CU in 2013 they were blown out, couldn't score. Roll before they can crawl, crawl before you can walk.
They have an experienced QB, they closed the gap on UCLA, ASU, Utah, UW in terms of the final score, and they lost the cal game on the last play.
It isn't all that dissimilar than Price in 98...could crawl, 99 they crawled, 2000 they walked, 2001 they ran.
Time to vote in this pre-season poll is running out.
So far, it's 29-10 YES 6+ wins and Bowl game.
So far, it's 29-10 YES 6+ wins and Bowl game.
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9 wins could take a few years, as you say, or maybe not. I like what the coaches are saying about their personnel and the way the transfer chips and qualifying status's have fallen into place. Especially if what Coach Joe is saying about his plethora of "Pac-12 bodies" on the D-line, I see this locomotive chugging out of the station this season in fine fettle and reaching 9 wins no later than next season.
I still think that the cougs win 7-8 games. The O line will be improved and the leadership will be 100 % improved The morale will be much better as Leach comes out of his fugue like state and now has a leader and competent QB. The red zone offense will be more productive . The defense will not be disheartened by watching the offense put them in a bad position to start every game.
You're so pretty when you're emotional about others being emotional. Your mascara is running.
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