4 star Deion Singleton is in DA HOUSE!!!!

[Coug95man2]

Assumptions. You are making assumptions about peoples perception of CML's first 3 recruiting classes. Many of us think the first 3 were pretty good, considering where we were coming from. No they were not in the Top 50 in the nation (although close), but I don't know that anyone is "praising" CML as the second coming, either. You are confusing our patience with Cult of Personality. While some of us didn't have that patience with the previous regime, the same people might with CML, me for certain in that category. Because of this, some here are calling it "blind following" or "kook-aid drinkers" or as you put it, "Cult of Personality". I'm not saying CML's classes were incredible. But they weren't bad considering the years previous, we were rating in the 80's and 90's in the nation back then. I think 50's in the nation was good improvement. Now we are even better. It's improvement. Not Cult of Personality.

That is all.

This post was edited on 1/13 2:49 PM by Coug95man2

 

[Cougsocal]

Originally posted by YakiCoug:

Originally posted by dgibbons:

Originally posted by Cougsocal:

Originally posted by wulffui:
These guys, much like your Farrar's and Leniu's, never get mentioned by the 12-10-12 crowd.

How dare anyone not be effusive about the 2012, 2013, 2014 recruiting classes. The triumph of our 9-25 record against BCS competition over the last three years demonstrates the game changing quality of those classes.

Don't people realize that the great leader's recruiting has been fanastic, despite our 3-9 record this season. Counterrevolutionary imperialist dogs like Breske are to blame for the losses, not subpar recruiting. Without the great leader's inspired recruiting, we would have gone 0-17.

Your schtick is so old it can't even be called stale.

But it is very chinookesque.

Unlike many Yaki, your head isn't buried in the sand. Your call for JC recruits to sure up the ranks, while blasphemy to many of the faithful, is a brave acknowledgement that Leach may have had a hiccup or two on the recruiting front. You bring facts, humor and color to the board, which is enjoyed and appreciated ... unlike the humorless one, AKA "I'm the smartest guy in the room."

 

[YakiCoug]

Originally posted by Cougsocal:

Originally posted by YakiCoug:

Originally posted by dgibbons:

Originally posted by Cougsocal:

Originally posted by wulffui:
These guys, much like your Farrar's and Leniu's, never get mentioned by the 12-10-12 crowd.

How dare anyone not be effusive about the 2012, 2013, 2014 recruiting classes. The triumph of our 9-25 record against BCS competition over the last three years demonstrates the game changing quality of those classes.

Don't people realize that the great leader's recruiting has been fanastic, despite our 3-9 record this season. Counterrevolutionary imperialist dogs like Breske are to blame for the losses, not subpar recruiting. Without the great leader's inspired recruiting, we would have gone 0-17.

Your schtick is so old it can't even be called stale.

But it is very chinookesque.

Unlike many Yaki, your head isn't buried in the sand. Your call for JC recruits to sure up the ranks, while blasphemy to many of the faithful, is a brave acknowledgement that Leach may have had a hiccup or two on the recruiting front. You bring facts, humor and color to the board, which is enjoyed and appreciated ... unlike the humorless one, AKA "I'm the smartest guy in the room."

Thanks, CougSoCal, but this notion that people are on the edge of their seats waiting for Leach's next fart is rather silly. Ed and others may be clinging to the Waseem family toilet seat, but what appears to be a "pro-Leach" sentiment is actually a reaction to the sniping and griping from the ever dwindling number of aPaulogists on the free board (Ed is pretty much the only one on the premium board). I've gone on record saying early on Leach faces a monumental task, thanks to the crap heap left behind. Knowing that the Turdinator signed only 7 high school o-line prospects in four years (many of whom washed out), and seeing the glaring lack of size and speed at most other positions, I figured the climb back would take time, although no one could be sure how long. I was surprised we got into a bowl game in only Leach's second year. Had Wulff managed 6-6 in Year 2, the paramedics might still be trying to resuscitate Ed, assuming they could pry his lips off Wulff's butt. But when Leach does it (gets WSU to a bowl), it's no big deal, as if Wulff laid some kind of foundation. The only thing he laid was at the Waseem house.and the magical aura of 6 and 40.
If Leach can't produce a consistent winner soon - I'm hoping it all begins this season - he should be fired. You won't see me pissing and moaning throughout the next regime's attempt to build a winner. As for now, I believe Leach needs to spend more time on football and less on book promotions.





This post was edited on 1/13 5:36 PM by YakiCoug

 

[Coug1990]

CSC, what 95 said

Originally posted by Coug95man2:
Assumptions. You are making assumptions about peoples perception of CML's first 3 recruiting classes. Many of us think the first 3 were pretty good, considering where we were coming from. No they were not in the Top 50 in the nation (although close), but I don't know that anyone is "praising" CML as the second coming, either. You are confusing our patience with Cult of Personality. While some of us didn't have that patience with the previous regime, the same people might with CML, me for certain in that category. Because of this, some here are calling it "blind following" or "kook-aid drinkers" or as you put it, "Cult of Personality". I'm not saying CML's classes were incredible. But they weren't bad considering the years previous, we were rating in the 80's and 90's in the nation back then. I think 50's in the nation was good improvement. Now we are even better. It's improvement. Not Cult of Personality.

That is all.

WSU is not a miracle school. When you are as far down as WSU has been, you just are not going to jump to the top of the conference in winning or recruiting. Do I think every year the recruiting has improved? Yes. Did you really think that any coach could have come in after Wulff and what people thought of WSU and bring in top 25 recruiting classes?

What I have always said is hire good people and let them work. Leach is a good coach. I am letting him work. I am not getting emotional over every negative thing that happens.

 

[Cougsocal]

Originally posted by YakiCoug:

Originally posted by Cougsocal:

Originally posted by YakiCoug:

Originally posted by dgibbons:

Originally posted by Cougsocal:

Originally posted by wulffui:
These guys, much like your Farrar's and Leniu's, never get mentioned by the 12-10-12 crowd.

How dare anyone not be effusive about the 2012, 2013, 2014 recruiting classes. The triumph of our 9-25 record against BCS competition over the last three years demonstrates the game changing quality of those classes.

Don't people realize that the great leader's recruiting has been fanastic, despite our 3-9 record this season. Counterrevolutionary imperialist dogs like Breske are to blame for the losses, not subpar recruiting. Without the great leader's inspired recruiting, we would have gone 0-17.

Your schtick is so old it can't even be called stale.

But it is very chinookesque.

Unlike many Yaki, your head isn't buried in the sand. Your call for JC recruits to sure up the ranks, while blasphemy to many of the faithful, is a brave acknowledgement that Leach may have had a hiccup or two on the recruiting front. You bring facts, humor and color to the board, which is enjoyed and appreciated ... unlike the humorless one, AKA "I'm the smartest guy in the room."

This notion that people are on the edge of their seats waiting for Leach's next fart is rather silly. Ed and others may be clinging to the Waseem family toilet seat, but what appears to be a "pro-Leach" sentiment is actually a reaction to the sniping and griping from the ever dwindling number of aPaulogists on the free board (Ed is pretty much the only one on the premium board). I've gone on record saying early on Leach faces a monumental task, thanks to the crap heap left behind. Knowing that the Turdinator signed only 7 high school o-line prospects in four year (many of whom washed out), and seeing the glaring lack of speed at most other positions, I figured the climb back would take time, although no one could be sure how long. I was surprised we got into a bowl game in only his second year. Had Wulff managed 6-6 in Year 2, the paramedics might still be trying to resuscitate Ed, assuming they could pry his lips off Wulff's butt. But when Leach does it, it's no big deal, as if Wulff laid some kind of foundation. The only thing he laid was at the Waseem house.and the magical aura of 6 and 40.
If Leach can't produce a consistent winner soon - I'm hoping it all begins this season - he should be fired. You won't see me pissing and moaning throughout the next regime's attempt to build a winner.

It is business, not personal. Price was a great recruiter ... when people were grumbling, not so much when they were patting him on the back. Seems like Leach may have some Price in him. In hindsight, we should have united after 69-0 and worked to get Wulff out of here, like after year two. You never get a team or a program back after you command them to "phone it in." We all knew that. Maybe we don't sign Leach, but four years of that putz dug us/him such a whole. Yes I'm crabby, but this time around I promised myself to challenge baseless effusiveness that dominated the Wulff "era." Leach is a great coach. We are lucky to have him, but at WSU you have to recruit every year like your job depends on it, I didn't see it out of Leach until now.

 

[Coug95man2]

Re: CSC, what 95 said

1990, I also think some people that are "pro-CML" (crazy there is even an inkling of such divide to type that…) have voiced the concern of "If CML can't do it, who can?" and that whole debate of whom can WSU lure to a school that CML can't even "fix". That, too, has given the perception of Carte Blanche when it is furthest from the truth. Upon stepping back, I think there are quite a few perceptions and misconceptions out there. All due to CML's pedigree being what it is AND peoples reactions to it in regards to this whole concept of "CML is God." thing.

To be honest though, as CML's record improves (I hope and pray), both sides of this "divide" will realize it doesn't matter. Winning truly will solve a whole lot of discord within Cougar Nation. Hopefully will bury the past a bit more, as well. This DC hire will go a long way to helping that, IMHO.

 

[Coug1990]

Re: CSC, what 95 said

Originally posted by Coug95man2:
1990, I also think some people that are "pro-CML" (crazy there is even an inkling of such divide to type that…) have voiced the concern of "If CML can't do it, who can?" and that whole debate of whom can WSU lure to a school that CML can't even "fix". That, too, has given the perception of Carte Blanche when it is furthest from the truth. Upon stepping back, I think there are quite a few perceptions and misconceptions out there. All due to CML's pedigree being what it is AND peoples reactions to it in regards to this whole concept of "CML is God." thing.

To be honest though, as CML's record improves (I hope and pray), both sides of this "divide" will realize it doesn't matter. Winning truly will solve a whole lot of discord within Cougar Nation. Hopefully will bury the past a bit more, as well. This DC hire will go a long way to helping that, IMHO.

I do think that is some of the thinking with some people. I believe a lot of people project their own feelings onto others. For example, there was a post yesterday about the DC hiring and that person said that "he like everyone else is getting anxious about the hire." Yet, many of us have written over and over that the hire will happen when it happens and we want Leach to take his time and get this right. Now, I am not criticizing that person, don't even remember who it was (so don't take it personally if you read this). You get people calling us the cult of personality and other trying to tell me what it means. Yeah, like I don't know, as they saying has only been around like forever. Again, it is projection. They were all in on the previous coach despite so many things that shown he was not the answer. So, they have taken that and projected onto us to be the same way about Leach despite the fact that there are a lot of good things going on in the program.

Unfortunately, I don't ever think the divide will ever completely go away. There is just so much disinformation out there and a lot of people need to be right, even when they are wrong. In addition, there are too many people out there that need to have the last word, even people with whom you and I agree. We have all seen those threads between two people that go on and on and on...

 

[BiggsCoug]

Originally posted by Cougsocal:

Originally posted by Coug1990:

Originally posted by Cougsocal:

Originally posted by wulffui:
These guys, much like your Farrar's and Leniu's, never get mentioned by the 12-10-12 crowd.

How dare anyone not be effusive about the 2012, 2013, 2014 recruiting classes. The triumph of our 9-25 record against BCS competition over the last three years demonstrates the game changing quality of those classes.

Don't people realize that the great leader's recruiting has been fanastic, despite our 3-9 record this season. Counterrevolutionary imperialist dogs like Breske are to blame for the losses, not subpar recruiting. Without the great leader's inspired recruiting, we would have gone 0-17.

Did you happen to follow the Cougar basketball team during the Bennett era? If you had, you would see that the Bennetts' were not very good the first three years. The players that were recruited in their first three classes lost quite a bit. But, guess what happened? Those same players grew up and became very good.

There were people back then who were all doom and gloom like you are about this football team. There were people like me saying, look beyond the scoreboard. Good things are happening. They are beating teams they had no reason to beat or hand not beat in years. The football team has beaten USC and Arizona. They made a bowl last season.

This team is doing fine. Too bad you not.

If it happens, I'll be the first to admit I was flat wrong. But, will you and the "cult of personality" crowd ever admit that the recruiting has been an issue with our ongoing struggles? Even Yaki, who wears heart Leach underwear, is on record as saying we need a major influx of JC talent, a Leach devotee, but a realist.

As for doom and gloom, this is the first recruiting class since the Price era, that I'm excited about. Why is that? Because, I see speed and athletic ability. I'm no guru. This class may fall flat like every class since 2002, but so far so good.

The difference between you and I, is I'm not a blind faith guy. I questioned the talent recruited by Doba, even that dreadful 2003 class that so many thought was good, Wulff and Leach. Why? It wasn't personal, it was because I didn't see enough talent. Stud classes make an instant impact in practice and on the field. When Leach recruits are having hard time replacing Wulff holdovers short of demotion due to poor play, it is not some master plan, it is a problem.






Leach took over a mess of the team and was grossly behind the 8 ball in recruiting. When you have 1 month to put together a class, do you really have the time to fairly evaluate what you've got on the roster? I don't think so. So you go out and get the best you can. Here's the catch, you've had 1 month to build a relationship and other programs have had 1, 2, 3 or even 4 years head start on you. So unless your coach has some equity already built there isn't anyone that flashy that you're gonna land. Not at WSU anyways. So your first class is filled with guys that will probably redshirt cause no one is good enough to show up and start. Why not? Even if the roster isn't that great? Cause 21 and 22 year old bodies are just more mature. They've had 2 or 3 years head start in the weight room. They've had 2 or 3 years head start in the meeting room. The frosh have been on campus for 2 weeks and might not even know where to line up yet and the vets, regardless of how bad they are, have enough in the tank to beat out a true frosh.

Your second class gets a little better cause you've actually had a chance to go out and meet kids the prior spring. You've also got some games under your belt so they start to see what your team is about. I'd expect your class to get a little better but again, you've got guys that have either been on kids for 2 years before you got there or they have the facilities/tradition/bowls to back them up. WSU isn't going into SoCal and leaving with kids that SC and UCLA and Oregon have been on for 3 years.

Your third class starts to move forward. No longer are you getting muscled in relationships or even facilities cause your football ops building is in play. You've been to a bowl. You're QB is throwing all over the yard. WR's are making grabs. It's moving forward regardless of the won/loss record. And now, finally you're either seeing your kids beat out the vets you've inherited or you're vets have stepped up. Expect a lot of attrition. You will have brought in guys from your first two classes that just can't cut it, so they're gone. You've got frosh or sophs that got on the field cause there was no one else to play and now the guys you bring in behind them see the writing on the wall. So they leave. Here you are 3 years in and your roster is still fluid.

So here comes year 4. You've got people saying it's all your program now... Meaning all the kids are yours. Put up of shut up! Bowl game or fired! Tell me, what exactly do you really have? A spattering of kids left over from your first class. Maybe they're contributors, maybe they're not. Your second class is probably a lil better but overall I'd wager half the guys you brought in are gone. You've been able to start to move the roster forward and maybe build some depth. The early commitment to the OL is finally starting to show as you bring back everyone. And the years it takes to build up the strength necessary is finally starting to show. You still have holes though. You've lost some kids to graduation and their back ups haven't been able to step in as well. You're young and old all at once. Vets in some places, rookies in others. You have this mish mash of a team.

WSU is an 8 year rebuild. You can't transition an entire roster AND build depth AND develop talent AND keep things moving ahead all at the same time. Too many moving pieces to do it in two years. So now you go out and fill whatever holes you need with JC kids, you coach up the guys you have and you hope that the relationships you've built over the past 3 years pay off in recruiting.

This is where WSU football is at. If you wanna "wait and see" fine. If you wanna call out the coach and say you don't have blind faith, fine. Just be honest about what he was left with, what took time to build (football ops building), how long relationships with recruits and families take to develop... Then make an honest evaluation.

If Leach took WSU to 5 bowls in 10 seasons, where would that rank in WSU history? The best 10 year run ever.

 

[Coug95man2]

You sound like ME, Biggs!!! War & Peace!

But good, accurate post. Truth, here.