A game to watch: Fresno St. vs. San Diego St.
- Thread starter ttowncoug
- Start date
You're cute.
But that does bring up an interesting question: would it be possible to keep a coach in Pullman for 10 years, if the money was right? Because, there's two scenarios right? Either a coach stinks it up and isn't retained, or is super successful and gets hired away. Anything better than 8 wins a year consistently and someone will come calling. Not only that, but CML showed that even if you are successful and want to stay, you're coaches will jump ship at the drop of a... dollar, so how do you build long term success (8 wins or more) in Pullman?
Historically, the only "long-term" football coach since I've been following Cougar football is Mike Price at 14 years. But his track record followed a pattern of 2 bad or mediocre years to build a good year. When he finally had his first back-to-back winning seasons, he was offered the job at Alabama. So, I don't know the answer but I've gotten used to WSU being a stepping stone school for successful coaches in football and basketball.
Glad Cougar
Glad Cougar
From the small world department, DeBoer was a wildly successful head coach (& alum) of University of Sioux Falls whose cross town rival is Augustana University where....you guessed it.....Jake Dickert was an assistant coach. DeBoer had moved on by the time Dickert was at Augie but that Dakota Connection exists. DeBoer certainly would be an interesting guy to consider as Chun contemplates what to do with the head coach position.
Glad Cougar
Gonzaga, used to have the same problem as WSU. So did Arizona, before Lute Olsen.
The thing is you have to either make a string of good hires in a row, an or have a coach stay for 4 years, and build the name, brand, image, out of the universe win totals, success for at least 4,5 straight years.
During this time you also need to be lucky enough to have a extremely awesome President, AD, marketing department, that can spin the image, capitalize, make another good hire.
In that situation a good Mark Few or Lute Olsen type will stay 10 to 20 years and not leave to another stepping stone, because the College's image, is that they are not a stepping stone anymore, and that the right coach can have big time success, semi big time money there, etc.
Example, either if WSU had either a better Pres, AD at the time, an or had either hired another Mike Price, an or if Doba had had 5 to 10 more 10 win season in a row, then WSU would have become a Gonzaga type, or a Arizona type(bball). WSU would not have been a stepping stone, and have become a semi blue blood like a Gonzaga, Arizona.
But WSU didn't capitalize, because of bad Pres,AD, bad marketing. And how if WSU had tried to be creative, and creatively figured out a way to give Mike Price, and his Assistants a little tiny bit more money, Mike Price would have stayed. Mike Price said that even tho WSU could not keep pace with Alabama, he said that if WSU Pres,AD had been reasonable, just given at least his Assistants a little tiny bit more money, and him a little bit more, and a little tiny bit into facilities, that he would have stayed, not gone to Alabama.
And I believe him on about that.
Also WSU AD didn't make sure that got a good coach to replace Price. So WSU missed their chance, just like Ore St after 10 years of bowl games under Riley, because they didn't get Riley to stay, and didn't replace him with a good coach. If they had, they would have been a new Gonzaga, Arizona.
What WSU has to do is follow what they are doing in bball.
With Smiths unprecedented best ever recruiting, and his coaching, and his results so far, and with the team he has now, he has the chance to have WSU win about 21,22,23,24, games, NCAA's, 2nd Round,Sweet 16, Elite 8, etc, the next 2,3,4,5 years in a row.
Coach Smith and his wife, and family LOVE Pullman, WSU. His wife and her family was,is big time WSU fans, before Smith took the WSU job. There is probably about a 63% to 73% chance that Smith stays for at least 6 to 11 years an longer.
And there about at least about a 59% chance that he will not only stay, but have the results I mentioned.
From there WSU has to capitalize on that, market, fundraise a little tiny bit more money, hire another coach as good as Smith.
If WSU does that. WSU will, can, become another Gonzaga, Arizona in BBALL.
The big question is will WSU execute, and do that.
The same can be done for WSU football.
If Gonzaga, Arizona, UNLV, Creighton, BUTLER, MASON, VCU, Wichita St, etc, can do it, WSU can do it too.
The big question is will they execute and do it like those other places did.
And it's not easy, and easier said then done. And you have to have a lot of luck, and have a lot of things fall perfectly into place.
Will that happen at WSU? I don't know, and would have to say probably not.
But then again that's probably what they said at Gonzaga, Arizona, UNLV, Wichita St, Creighton, VCU, Butler, Mason, UTEP in the 60's when they won National Title vs Kentucky, and Kentucky, before Robert Rupp built Kentucky into what it is over a 30 year period of time.
Your probably right. He probably would not leave WSU if he had Mike Leach's success.
He would probably stay for 10 to 35 years, if he had Leach's success or better, year after year, etc.
He might, maybe even semi probably have the success Mike Price had of 1 good year, and 2, 3 semi bad, or just barely by skin of teeth years.
I don't think he will have Mike Leach, or Riley at Ore St level success.
But who knows, we'll see.
If he is either not as good as at least Doba, or as good, equal to Doba, I don't think he would last 10 years, would get fired.
But if he does well the remainder of this year, and if he is made the permanent HC, and if he does at least as well as Mike Price, or better, or better then Doba, then yeah, I think Dickert would stay 10 to 30 years.
That's something for Chun to consider very seriously, if Dickert does very well the remainder of the season.
not trying to pick the Paul Wulff scab but that’s what I liked about him. If he ever got it going, he may have been at WSU for life. A poor man’s Bobby Bowden or Frank Beamer. Of course he didn’t and the rest is history including the loss of innocence.
We had that guy in Doba - but the death of his wife and the complete ineptitude on the recruiting trail of the bulk of the assistants made that impossible.
The year after Judy's death is when Doba went into scramble/Texas mode trying to right the ship. Most of the assistants f'd him over during her final year of life. Not a single one of them stepped up. Doba turned to Burtnett because he could trust him.
If the AD goes back to deficit spending. Leach was 8 years and left after the purse strings started to tighten.
Dickert is an up and coming coordinator. When he was hired by Rolo, he said his goal was to become a head coach, so he wasn't thrust into a position that he was unsure of. I think that happened to Doba when Price left.
One of the reasons I'm cautiously optimistic about him is because of the coaching mentor he learned under. I've always had a ton of respect for Craig Bohl, and I place a lot of stock in his judgement to hire and promote Dickert to Defensive Coordinator at Wyoming. Now, does he have what it takes to be a successful head coach? That's the million dollar question.
As I've said previously, I think that if we can finish the season strong, WSU might be better off retaining him rather than tossing the entire program back into a blender with a 4th head coach in 4 years.
It's called "Zach Mayo Syndrome" because a sub-mediocre coach like that has nowhere else to go.
You see that in admins, faculty, staff, post docs etc who just hide out in the small town hackarama (a huge problem in Olympia)
Flip side of the "Bobo & Chaplin stayed".
Dickert carries himself well and always has a clear plan. Great qualities in a head coach. I want him to be successful and it would be great if that was here. I also think it's reasonable to believe he would stick around for a while if he brought him here.
Dickert's success will hinge on being able to hire a staff to recruit the right players to keep winning seasons coming. We're going to have to take that one on faith. Right now recruiting is non-existent on social media. I haven't seen a new offer out in weeks. We won't know if Dickert can recruit until we give him the job and we won't know if he is right for the job until we figure out if he can recruit or not.
Lol @ Dickert staying if he had Leach’s success. It’s a nice message and sweet sentiment that he loves this atmosphere and area but if he’s got a CGD under his belt and a top 10 finish at age 40 ish $ will come calling from everywhere. And I’m sure he can find a way to make himself comfy anywhere for the money that would pay.
Urban Meyer really helped make Utah what they are today even if he didn't stick around for a decade. Next coach needs to be able to move the program forward, even if he's only here for a few years.
It is an off shoot, but not the same.
Peter Principle folks can achieve even beyond their first level of incompetence.
It’s possible but I think there’s very few places in the country you will be able to keep a successful coach for 10+ years these days. Maybe 10-12 programs along with the exact ingredients does this happen. I mean Penn State had Paterno for what, 40 years, now James Franklin looks like he’s bolting after a bit of success. Just the same at FSU with Bowden and their coach bailed after a few years for Texas A&M. Too much money at stake and it’s a what have you done for me lately profession.
Be wary of Fresno State coaches. Jim Sweeney went 26-59 at WSU, then went to Fresno, and went 144-74. Pat Hill went 112-80 at Fresno. Talent has never been the issue at Fresno, poor organization/coaching causes them to lose. That is why Tedford could go in there and turn a 1 win team in 2016, into a 10 win team in 2017. WSU is a completely different animal. Right now we are trying to win with a decade or more of bottom division recruiting. At WSU you need one of two types of coaches, a Leach type (wins with less) or a Price type (can move the talent/recruiting needle). DeBoer hasn't shown either capacity, yet. His pedigree is similar to Paul Wulff at EWU, winning at a school that traditional wins due a talent advantage in their conference.
There is very little similarity between DeBoer and Wulff. DeBoer has a head coach record of 76-8 and won 3 national championships at the small college level. DeBoer was also a successful D-1 offensive coordinator, including a P5 school at Indiana. He may not be the answer for WSU but he certainly is no Paul Wulff.
Glad Cougar
Only Sweeney part... have to differ.
Not a big Sweeney fan, but he evolved.
Also the WSU facilities were terrible and the old academic calendar a big hindrance.
Fresno does have some advantages compared to rest of MWC.
Not to bad mouth Deboer, or to suggest that Wulff isn't the worst coach in NCAA history, but it is not like Sioux Falls was a struggling program. They went 47-5 in the 4 years prior to him taking over, with only 1 non-playoff loss. Like Zorns at EWU, it was Bob Young who built that program, going 172-69 in the preceding 21 years. All I say is, coaching is relative, wins ain't the be all and end all. DeBoer took over relative power programs twice. He has proven that he can take talented teams, relatively, and make them play better.
On my wish list, I'd like to see a coach who has demonstrate the ability to overcome some adversity on the road to success, as it more closely replicates the WSU situation.
Sure coaches evolve and Jim was a better coach at Fresno than he was at WSU, admitting that himself. However, he had more winning seasons in his first two years at Fresno, than he had at WSU, total.
Similar threads
