A VERY Powerful Testimony

[Stretch 74]

Ms Aguirre testified before Congress (think it was today) about the issue of crime done by illegal migrants. Her testimony was one of the most passionate, powerful things I have ever listened to. It will break your heart. Her part is just the first 6 minutes of the linked video. Do yourself a favor and listen to what she has to say.

Moms Call Out Democrats for Doing Nothing While Their Children Died

These mothers testified today before the House Judiciary Committee about the devastating results of Joe Biden and Kamala Harris' wide open border.

redstate.com

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Ms Aguirre testified before Congress (think it was today) about the issue of crime done by illegal migrants. Her testimony was one of the most passionate, powerful things I have ever listened to. It will break your heart. Her part is just the first 6 minutes of the linked video. Do yourself a favor and listen to what she has to say.

Moms Call Out Democrats for Doing Nothing While Their Children Died

These mothers testified today before the House Judiciary Committee about the devastating results of Joe Biden and Kamala Harris' wide open border.

redstate.com

Glad to see you back Stretch. Well, not really but compared to Uber you are the voice of reason.

I watched this clip. Yes, it is very powerful and sad. So what is your point? That the Republicans should have supported the bipartisan Border bill? If so, I agree. Since Mexico is so full of horrible people as her testimony suggests, should we just close the border completely? I'd go for that.

 

[Stretch 74]

Glad to see you back Stretch. Well, not really but compared to Uber you are the voice of reason.

I watched this clip. Yes, it is very powerful and sad. So what is your point? That the Republicans should have supported the bipartisan Border bill? If so, I agree. Since Mexico is so full of horrible people as her testimony suggests, should we just close the border completely? I'd go for that.

No, that was not my point. But perhaps the Senate should have taken up HB 2 many months before the so called "bipartisan border bill"?

At this point, we absolutely should completely close the border to new immigration for a while. We have been overloaded over the past 4 years, so let's hold off on new folks until we can secure the border and ensure that new immigrants are the ones we want coming in and our immigration courts and processes have the opportunity to catch up. And it isn't just Mexico, it is Guatemala, El Salvador, Venezuela, China, Iran, Afghanistan, etc.

 

[95coug]

Ms Aguirre testified before Congress (think it was today) about the issue of crime done by illegal migrants. Her testimony was one of the most passionate, powerful things I have ever listened to. It will break your heart. Her part is just the first 6 minutes of the linked video. Do yourself a favor and listen to what she has to say.

Moms Call Out Democrats for Doing Nothing While Their Children Died

These mothers testified today before the House Judiciary Committee about the devastating results of Joe Biden and Kamala Harris' wide open border.

redstate.com

You could invite many more people who could tell equally tragic stories about their white child and what a white person did to them. That is, if you're inclined to focus on some fraction of a larger problem and portray it inaccurately as being representative of that problem.

Here are the 10 states with the highest rates of child abuse:

Maine
Alaska
West Virginia
Massachusetts
Kentucky
Montana
Oklahoma
New Mexico
New York
Iowa

Of those, only New Mexico and New York are among the states with the highest percentages of Hispanic immigrants. Massachusetts is also in there if you include all immigrants. Five of the states listed above are reliably red states.

95% of abusers are US citizens. 93% are men. 57.5% are white. Less than 20% are Hispanic or mixed.

 

[Stretch 74]

You could invite many more people who could tell equally tragic stories about their white child and what a white person did to them. That is, if you're inclined to focus on some fraction of a larger problem and portray it inaccurately as being representative of that problem.

Here are the 10 states with the highest rates of child abuse:

Maine
Alaska
West Virginia
Massachusetts
Kentucky
Montana
Oklahoma
New Mexico
New York
Iowa

Of those, only New Mexico and New York are among the states with the highest percentages of Hispanic immigrants. Massachusetts is also in there if you include all immigrants. Five of the states listed above are reliably red states.

95% of abusers are US citizens. 93% are men. 57.5% are white. Less than 20% are Hispanic or mixed.

I get it- white folks and US citizens are not all angels. No argument there. However, take a look at the violent crime rates (per 100,000 people) of the worst countries in that category. (from datapandas.org) Now think about where so many of the newest illegal immigrants are coming from, and realize that many of them are coming to the US from these countries with the worst violent crime rates. (some in red below) Now what do you think is going to happen as these folks come to the US, which is rated #76 at 4.96 per 100,000 people?

It is pretty naïve to assume that only those people that don't break the law are the ones coming over our borders illegally. It is logical to assume that most of them will continue their crime activities in the US, and that will end up impacting the violent crime rate in the US negatively.

Wiki estimates 2021 ethnicities as 59.3% white and 18.9% as Hispanic. So isn't those percentages of abusers that you listed just about what you would expect? Neither is out of line with the actual ratio to the population as a whole.

1.		El Salvador	52.02
2.		Jamaica	43.85
3.		Lesotho	43.56
4.		Honduras	38.93
5.		Belize	37.79
6.		Venezuela	36.69
7.		Saint Vincent and the Grenadines	36.54
8.		South Africa	36.40
9.		Saint Kitts and Nevis	36.09
10.		Nigeria	34.52
11.		Bahamas	31.96
12.		Trinidad and Tobago	30.65
13.		Mexico	29.07
14.		Anguilla	28.34
15.		Saint Martin	27.73

 

[Coug90]

Glad to see you back Stretch. Well, not really but compared to Uber you are the voice of reason.

I watched this clip. Yes, it is very powerful and sad. So what is your point? That the Republicans should have supported the bipartisan Border bill? If so, I agree. Since Mexico is so full of horrible people as her testimony suggests, should we just close the border completely? I'd go for that.

I hope not. I’m going to Cabo in November. Damn sure not bringing any cats or furrys with me though.

I’m going to be vigilant though. I’m keeping a beer in my hand the ENTIRE time in case I need to throw it at someone trying to defend myself.

 

[95coug]

I get it- white folks and US citizens are not all angels. No argument there. However, take a look at the violent crime rates (per 100,000 people) of the worst countries in that category. (from datapandas.org) Now think about where so many of the newest illegal immigrants are coming from, and realize that many of them are coming to the US from these countries with the worst violent crime rates. (some in red below) Now what do you think is going to happen as these folks come to the US, which is rated #76 at 4.96 per 100,000 people?

It is pretty naïve to assume that only those people that don't break the law are the ones coming over our borders illegally. It is logical to assume that most of them will continue their crime activities in the US, and that will end up impacting the violent crime rate in the US negatively.

Wiki estimates 2021 ethnicities as 59.3% white and 18.9% as Hispanic. So isn't those percentages of abusers that you listed just about what you would expect? Neither is out of line with the actual ratio to the population as a whole.

1.		El Salvador	52.02
2.		Jamaica	43.85
3.		Lesotho	43.56
4.		Honduras	38.93
5.		Belize	37.79
6.		Venezuela	36.69
7.		Saint Vincent and the Grenadines	36.54
8.		South Africa	36.40
9.		Saint Kitts and Nevis	36.09
10.		Nigeria	34.52
11.		Bahamas	31.96
12.		Trinidad and Tobago	30.65
13.		Mexico	29.07
14.		Anguilla	28.34
15.		Saint Martin	27.73

Yeah, most of the people coming here are more likely to be fleeing the crime in their countries - not the ones perpetrating it.

And, you overlooked the part where 95% of abusers are US citizens…not recent immigrants or illegals.

 

[mikalalas]

Glad to see you back Stretch. Well, not really but compared to Uber you are the voice of reason.

I watched this clip. Yes, it is very powerful and sad. So what is your point? That the Republicans should have supported the bipartisan Border bill? If so, I agree. Since Mexico is so full of horrible people as her testimony suggests, should we just close the border completely? I'd go for that.

1. Supporting the Demotard Border Bill would have been bad. The DEMOTARD Border Bill wouldn't have helped the Border, and if the Repubs had signed the DEMOTARD BORDER BILL, the Repubs would have signed yes to all kinds of increased taxes, increased spending, increased debt, increased unbalanced budget, green new green deal, free college for everyone, etc, as the DEMOTARDS Almost always attach that crap to bills.

2. Repubs ate not saying to close Border completely.

3. Repubs not saying that all illegal alien immigrants are bad. But semi some to a semi lot are bad, do things like drugs, cartels, gangs, human trafficking, slavery, terrorist acts, murder, rape, etc. Some illegal alien immigrants are good people.

4. Repubs are suggesting vetting, controlling borders, illegal alien immigration, touchback immigration(where illegals are temporarily deported, sent back to back of the legal immigration line, where they have to earn legal immigration, etc.

5. Repubs should vote no to DEMOTARD BORDER BILL, and instead fillibuster, try to force the DEMOTARDS to do REAL GOOD Border Control, instead of being SPINELESS REPUBTARDS.

 

[KRUSTYtheCOUG]

Ms Aguirre testified before Congress (think it was today) about the issue of crime done by illegal migrants. Her testimony was one of the most passionate, powerful things I have ever listened to. It will break your heart. Her part is just the first 6 minutes of the linked video. Do yourself a favor and listen to what she has to say.

Moms Call Out Democrats for Doing Nothing While Their Children Died

These mothers testified today before the House Judiciary Committee about the devastating results of Joe Biden and Kamala Harris' wide open border.

redstate.com

Do you believe that immigrants (illegal or otherwise) commit crimes at a higher rate than native born US citizens? If som what do you base this on?

 

[95coug]

Do you believe that immigrants (illegal or otherwise) commit crimes at a higher rate than native born US citizens? If som what do you base this on?

Probably, because the question is mathematically distorted, and will be so as long as you compare "rates."

The foreign-born population in the US is about 46 million, compared to around 295 million born in the US. So, the rate of crimes committed by the foreign-born population will be higher unless the number of crimes by US-born population is 6.4 times greater. To illustrate:

If foreign-born people commit 10,000 crimes, that rate is 10,000 divided by 46M, or 1 per 4,600. If the US-born population commits 60,000 crimes, their rate is 60,000 divided by 295M, or 1 per 4,916. So, greater number of crimes by the US-born, but a lower rate.

Since their population is much lower, a small number of crimes committed by the smaller population disproportionately impacts the rate. Using those rates as the comparison is just another way of making sure that statistics show what you want them to - even if it's not factually correct.

 

[Stretch 74]

Yeah, most of the people coming here are more likely to be fleeing the crime in their countries - not the ones perpetrating it.

And, you overlooked the part where 95% of abusers are US citizens…not recent immigrants or illegals.

Okay, to start with I was talking about violent crime, but you selected a small part of that, child sex abuse. Are they the same, I doubt it and think it likely that the numbers will not be the same, although without researching I don't know the results.

I will simply say that the 5% needs to be dealt with as does the 95%.

 

[Stretch 74]

Probably, because the question is mathematically distorted, and will be so as long as you compare "rates."

The foreign-born population in the US is about 46 million, compared to around 295 million born in the US. So, the rate of crimes committed by the foreign-born population will be higher unless the number of crimes by US-born population is 6.4 times greater. To illustrate:

If foreign-born people commit 10,000 crimes, that rate is 10,000 divided by 46M, or 1 per 4,600. If the US-born population commits 60,000 crimes, their rate is 60,000 divided by 295M, or 1 per 4,916. So, greater number of crimes by the US-born, but a lower rate.

Since their population is much lower, a small number of crimes committed by the smaller population disproportionately impacts the rate. Using those rates as the comparison is just another way of making sure that statistics show what you want them to - even if it's not factually correct.

What are you trying to do here? You usually are better at the discussions than trying to confuse and obfuscate like CougEd. First you divert from violent crime to child sex abuse, and now you divert from illegal aliens to "foreign born". Those two groups are not equivalent.

And your math example is not very useful. Yes, if each group has an increase of 1,000 more crimes in a year to year analysis, obviously the rate of crimes for the smaller group will be affected greater. But what you need to do is compare the rates of crimes committed per equivalent numbers (hundreds, thousands, millions) for each group.

 

[KRUSTYtheCOUG]

Probably, because the question is mathematically distorted, and will be so as long as you compare "rates."

The foreign-born population in the US is about 46 million, compared to around 295 million born in the US. So, the rate of crimes committed by the foreign-born population will be higher unless the number of crimes by US-born population is 6.4 times greater. To illustrate:

If foreign-born people commit 10,000 crimes, that rate is 10,000 divided by 46M, or 1 per 4,600. If the US-born population commits 60,000 crimes, their rate is 60,000 divided by 295M, or 1 per 4,916. So, greater number of crimes by the US-born, but a lower rate.

Since their population is much lower, a small number of crimes committed by the smaller population disproportionately impacts the rate. Using those rates as the comparison is just another way of making sure that statistics show what you want them to - even if it's not factually correct.

Probably, because the question is mathematically distorted, and will be so as long as you compare "rates."

The foreign-born population in the US is about 46 million, compared to around 295 million born in the US. So, the rate of crimes committed by the foreign-born population will be higher unless the number of crimes by US-born population is 6.4 times greater. To illustrate:

If foreign-born people commit 10,000 crimes, that rate is 10,000 divided by 46M, or 1 per 4,600. If the US-born population commits 60,000 crimes, their rate is 60,000 divided by 295M, or 1 per 4,916. So, greater number of crimes by the US-born, but a lower rate.

Since their population is much lower, a small number of crimes committed by the smaller population disproportionately impacts the rate. Using those rates as the comparison is just another way of making sure that statistics show what you want them to - even if it's not factually correct.

Rates oa the most effective way to accurately measure this and studies by Stanford, Northwestern and even going back to the Cato Institute all show immigrants are less likely to be incarcerated that native born white folk. Recently that rate has been up to 60% less likely.

The bottom line is that the GOP is deliberately distorting the threat by fear mongering to manipulate both their own base and ignorant potential voters who can be easily swayed.

 

[Stretch 74]

Rates oa the most effective way to accurately measure this and studies by Stanford, Northwestern and even going back to the Cato Institute all show immigrants are less likely to be incarcerated that native born white folk. Recently that rate has been up to 60% less likely.

The bottom line is that the GOP is deliberately distorting the threat by fear mongering to manipulate both their own base and ignorant potential voters who can be easily swayed.

Legal vs illegal immigrants?

 

[KRUSTYtheCOUG]

Legal vs illegal immigrants?

That is a good question. A couple studies say no (here's one by oxford)
https://academic.oup.com/oep/article-abstract/73/1/200/5572162?redirectedFrom=fulltext

Problem being this is from 2018 as statistical analysis studies can lag being current reality.

The Cato institute study focusing on texas was 2017 but also came to the same conclusion (47% less likely to be incarcerated for violent crimes)

https://www.cato.org/publications/immigration-research-policy-brief/criminal-immigrants-texas-2017-illegal-immigrant

The fact is that the rhetoric doesn't match the threat and fear. The Stanford study seems to be based on recent and first generation legal immigrants.

But Trump and the GOP are making the claim. It is upon them to substantiate their claim. Do you know something that hasn't been shared?

 

[Stretch 74]

That is a good question. A couple studies say no (here's one by oxford)
https://academic.oup.com/oep/article-abstract/73/1/200/5572162?redirectedFrom=fulltext

Problem being this is from 2018 as statistical analysis studies can lag being current reality.

The Cato institute study focusing on texas was 2017 but also came to the same conclusion (47% less likely to be incarcerated for violent crimes)

https://www.cato.org/publications/immigration-research-policy-brief/criminal-immigrants-texas-2017-illegal-immigrant

The fact is that the rhetoric doesn't match the threat and fear. The Stanford study seems to be based on recent and first generation legal immigrants.

But Trump and the GOP are making the claim. It is upon them to substantiate their claim. Do you know something that hasn't been shared?

Please, everyone in this discussion be sure to separate the issue into two parts-legal immigrants vs illegal immigrants. It would not surprise me at all to find that LEGAL immigrants commit crimes at a lower rate than US citizens in general. I believe that the vast majority of legal immigrants to the US are good people, law abiding people. Yes, that is how this country was built. But it is disingenuous to conflate legal and illegal immigrants in these discussions, something that was done a lot way back in 2015/2016 when Trump was talking about a wall.

I don't think I know any secrets about the issue, but I have heard reports like linked below as well as anecdotal reports from people living in areas which are experiencing a large infusion of illegal immigrants. But how these all impact the entire US, how the rates compare, I do not know, but I do think it is highly likely that illegals are committing crimes at much higher rates than either legal immigrants or US citizens.

MSN

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Please, everyone in this discussion be sure to separate the issue into two parts-legal immigrants vs illegal immigrants. It would not surprise me at all to find that LEGAL immigrants commit crimes at a lower rate than US citizens in general. I believe that the vast majority of legal immigrants to the US are good people, law abiding people. Yes, that is how this country was built. But it is disingenuous to conflate legal and illegal immigrants in these discussions, something that was done a lot way back in 2015/2016 when Trump was talking about a wall.

I don't think I know any secrets about the issue, but I have heard reports like linked below as well as anecdotal reports from people living in areas which are experiencing a large infusion of illegal immigrants. But how these all impact the entire US, how the rates compare, I do not know, but I do think it is highly likely that illegals are committing crimes at much higher rates than either legal immigrants or US citizens.

MSN

I read this report, and it is disturbing. The sanctuary city thing is BS, and those cities need to fix that shit.

That said, we all know Immigration is broken. It needs to be fixed. Through bipartisan efforts. Both sides should be ashamed. And as far as the crime by immigrants (legal or illegal), I'm not really surprised. They have no money. The guy in the article wanted a change of clothes. Doesn't make it right to steal, and he should be jailed and hopefully deported. But desperation fosters criminal activity.

 

[mikalalas]

Rates oa the most effective way to accurately measure this and studies by Stanford, Northwestern and even going back to the Cato Institute all show immigrants are less likely to be incarcerated that native born white folk. Recently that rate has been up to 60% less likely.

The bottom line is that the GOP is deliberately distorting the threat by fear mongering to manipulate both their own base and ignorant potential voters who can be easily swayed.

There you go doing what the LIBTARDS, DEMOTARDS, MAINSTREAM MEDIA TARDS, ETC, DO, in using IMMIGRANTS, which can, does include BOTH Illegal Aliens Immigrants, and Legal Immigrants, instead of using Illegal Alien Immigrants, and Immigrants separately.

Legal Immigrants are wonderful, Awesome, most to almost all of them are awesome people, and what you said applies to LEGAL IMMIGRANTS.

Illegal Alien Immigrants are BREAKING USA LAW to come here ILLEGALLY, and Some of them do violent crimes, etc, and SOME OF THEM ARE GOOD PEOPLE, and a lot of them are hard workers(I ought to know as I worked beside them in the Bean Crops of Othello, 10 hours a day, in the 110 degree heat(They were also the nicest people)

Also we are skirting around the REAL ISSUE, PROBLEM.

The real problem is 3 things.

1. We don't control our border, and just let whoever across whether they be cartel, gangs, terrorist, human trafficker, slavers, good and bad Illegal Alien Immigrants, etc, and we don't vett or if do vett, don't vett effectively.

2. If, when, if a Illegal Alien Immigrant commits even a violent crime, it usually goes less enforced, a slap on wrist, and then released, and then the Illegal Alien Immigrant then goes, does it again, rinse, wash, repeat, 4,5,6 more times, for years, ruining lives, etc, before they FINALLY either get permanently imprisoned in USA prison System, or Deported before they Illegally come here again, and then commit more violent crimes, until Finally get permanently imprisoned.

3. We, our govt, our leaders, etc, don't do anything or anything effective to fix, deal with the 2 above points.

 

[95coug]

Okay, to start with I was talking about violent crime, but you selected a small part of that, child sex abuse. Are they the same, I doubt it and think it likely that the numbers will not be the same, although without researching I don't know the results.

I will simply say that the 5% needs to be dealt with as does the 95%.

I focused on child abuse, since that's really where the testimony came from. But the violent crime numbers aren't that much different.

 

[95coug]

I read this report, and it is disturbing. The sanctuary city thing is BS, and those cities need to fix that shit.

That said, we all know Immigration is broken. It needs to be fixed. Through bipartisan efforts. Both sides should be ashamed. And as far as the crime by immigrants (legal or illegal), I'm not really surprised. They have no money. The guy in the article wanted a change of clothes. Doesn't make it right to steal, and he should be jailed and hopefully deported. But desperation fosters criminal activity.

This will be a controversial idea, but...

The single largest reason people come across the border into the US (especially the southern border) is that their country sucks. They're poor, it's crime ridden, the government and police are corrupt, etc. They come here because it's supposed to be better. They get a work visa, enter, and don't want to go back. Or, they don't get a visa and just cross the border, because even if they live with the threat of deportation, it's better than going back.

So, we spend a pile of money to build walls and fences, to hire border guards, to bust coyotes, we make rules to make it harder for employers to hire migrants under the table. We fight the problem at its end - not at its source. As long as conditions suck in the origin countries, the people are going to keep coming, and we're going to keep pouring resources into fighting a battle we can't win.

I'm not really sure exactly what this looks like, but it would be more effective if we worked on improving things in those countries. Make it so those people will stay in their country instead of coming here.

The US has been pretty shitty at picking its friends in south and central america historically, and the current conditions can often be traced back to our prior influence. So, fix it. Make better choices. Control the corruption (with either money or military). It won't be cheap, but it should at least have an effect. Trying to block them at the border or round them up and deport them will never work.

 

[95coug]

Rates oa the most effective way to accurately measure this and studies by Stanford, Northwestern and even going back to the Cato Institute all show immigrants are less likely to be incarcerated that native born white folk. Recently that rate has been up to 60% less likely.

The bottom line is that the GOP is deliberately distorting the threat by fear mongering to manipulate both their own base and ignorant potential voters who can be easily swayed.

Yes, it's effective and it's common. But it still distorts the reality, especially when you're comparing populations of significantly different sizes.

 

[UberCougars]

I focused on child abuse, since that's really where the testimony came from. But the violent crime numbers aren't that much different.

Like 300,000 missing children at the border?

 

[UberCougars]

This will be a controversial idea, but...

The single largest reason people come across the border into the US (especially the southern border) is that their country sucks. They're poor, it's crime ridden, the government and police are corrupt, etc. They come here because it's supposed to be better. They get a work visa, enter, and don't want to go back. Or, they don't get a visa and just cross the border, because even if they live with the threat of deportation, it's better than going back.

So, we spend a pile of money to build walls and fences, to hire border guards, to bust coyotes, we make rules to make it harder for employers to hire migrants under the table. We fight the problem at its end - not at its source. As long as conditions suck in the origin countries, the people are going to keep coming, and we're going to keep pouring resources into fighting a battle we can't win.

I'm not really sure exactly what this looks like, but it would be more effective if we worked on improving things in those countries. Make it so those people will stay in their country instead of coming here.

The US has been pretty shitty at picking its friends in south and central america historically, and the current conditions can often be traced back to our prior influence. So, fix it. Make better choices. Control the corruption (with either money or military). It won't be cheap, but it should at least have an effect. Trying to block them at the border or round them up and deport them will never work.

Controversial perhaps but, I keep a lock on my door. Shouldn’t have to but I do it so people who didn’t buy my stuff can’t take my stuff just because they’re poor.

 

[mikalalas]

This will be a controversial idea, but...

The single largest reason people come across the border into the US (especially the southern border) is that their country sucks. They're poor, it's crime ridden, the government and police are corrupt, etc. They come here because it's supposed to be better. They get a work visa, enter, and don't want to go back. Or, they don't get a visa and just cross the border, because even if they live with the threat of deportation, it's better than going back.

So, we spend a pile of money to build walls and fences, to hire border guards, to bust coyotes, we make rules to make it harder for employers to hire migrants under the table. We fight the problem at its end - not at its source. As long as conditions suck in the origin countries, the people are going to keep coming, and we're going to keep pouring resources into fighting a battle we can't win.

I'm not really sure exactly what this looks like, but it would be more effective if we worked on improving things in those countries. Make it so those people will stay in their country instead of coming here.

The US has been pretty shitty at picking its friends in south and central america historically, and the current conditions can often be traced back to our prior influence. So, fix it. Make better choices. Control the corruption (with either money or military). It won't be cheap, but it should at least have an effect. Trying to block them at the border or round them up and deport them will never work.

Sounds well and good, but:

1. The USA does not have enough money to fix those problems, and take care of enough it's own people. So choice would be to TRY to fix problem at its source, and maybe, probably fail, and not take care of own people.

2. Even if USA spent every last cent of its, our money trying to fix the problem at its source, the problem wouldn't get fixed.

3. And even if the USA govt could fix the problem at its source, most to almost all the govt 's, leaders, of Mexico, central America, etc, won't, wouldn't let the USA Govt fix the problem.

So because of that, the only thing the USA can, should do is:

1. Try to fix the problem at its end.

2. Try to use Diplomacy to try to get Mexico, Central America to Try to fix the problems at their end.

3. Try to use Diplomacy, counseling, advisement, AND a Little to Semi some money, etc, to try to help them fix their problems.

4. Try to hold them committed, accountable, responsible, etc, to try to help themselves, etc, in a Diplomatic Way.

That's about the best that can do, and is a toss up on whether it would be effective on fix the problem(s) at the source.

 

[95coug]

Controversial perhaps but, I keep a lock on my door. Shouldn’t have to but I do it so people who didn’t buy my stuff can’t take my stuff just because they’re poor.

Yeah, and we've been doing that since long before this 'migrant surge' started.

 

[Stretch 74]

This will be a controversial idea, but...

The single largest reason people come across the border into the US (especially the southern border) is that their country sucks. They're poor, it's crime ridden, the government and police are corrupt, etc. They come here because it's supposed to be better. They get a work visa, enter, and don't want to go back. Or, they don't get a visa and just cross the border, because even if they live with the threat of deportation, it's better than going back.

So, we spend a pile of money to build walls and fences, to hire border guards, to bust coyotes, we make rules to make it harder for employers to hire migrants under the table. We fight the problem at its end - not at its source. As long as conditions suck in the origin countries, the people are going to keep coming, and we're going to keep pouring resources into fighting a battle we can't win.

I'm not really sure exactly what this looks like, but it would be more effective if we worked on improving things in those countries. Make it so those people will stay in their country instead of coming here.

The US has been pretty shitty at picking its friends in south and central america historically, and the current conditions can often be traced back to our prior influence. So, fix it. Make better choices. Control the corruption (with either money or military). It won't be cheap, but it should at least have an effect. Trying to block them at the border or round them up and deport them will never work.

Sure, fix things in every country on the earth by dumping our money into them. By giving away money we don't have and will just drive inflation up further for those of us left here in the United States.

But let's say we want to fix the problem in say.....Venezuela. Which method do you prefer-sending boatloads of money and supplies to the country that will get purloined by those elites in charge of the country, or should we invade the country, take it over and then throw all of the corrupt officials in prison? I'm sure those methods will work well and cost only small amounts of money and/or lives.

Of course, we COULD go ahead and do something on our end, and that is to spend a few billion dollars on finishing the wall to reduce the flow of illegal aliens to a trickle. Of course, the liberals will immediately blurt out that "Walls do not work", which is really rich just a month after holding their national convention in a facility guarded by two and three wall barriers. LOL, oh, the hypocrisy!

 

[CougEd]

This will be a controversial idea, but...

The single largest reason people come across the border into the US (especially the southern border) is that their country sucks. They're poor, it's crime ridden, the government and police are corrupt, etc. They come here because it's supposed to be better. They get a work visa, enter, and don't want to go back. Or, they don't get a visa and just cross the border, because even if they live with the threat of deportation, it's better than going back.

So, we spend a pile of money to build walls and fences, to hire border guards, to bust coyotes, we make rules to make it harder for employers to hire migrants under the table. We fight the problem at its end - not at its source. As long as conditions suck in the origin countries, the people are going to keep coming, and we're going to keep pouring resources into fighting a battle we can't win.

I'm not really sure exactly what this looks like, but it would be more effective if we worked on improving things in those countries. Make it so those people will stay in their country instead of coming here.

The US has been pretty shitty at picking its friends in south and central america historically, and the current conditions can often be traced back to our prior influence. So, fix it. Make better choices. Control the corruption (with either money or military). It won't be cheap, but it should at least have an effect. Trying to block them at the border or round them up and deport them will never work.

Bingo....Build a chips plant in Honduras and take away from China ...

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Sure, fix things in every country on the earth by dumping our money into them. By giving away money we don't have and will just drive inflation up further for those of us left here in the United States.

But let's say we want to fix the problem in say.....Venezuela. Which method do you prefer-sending boatloads of money and supplies to the country that will get purloined by those elites in charge of the country, or should we invade the country, take it over and then throw all of the corrupt officials in prison? I'm sure those methods will work well and cost only small amounts of money and/or lives.

Of course, we COULD go ahead and do something on our end, and that is to spend a few billion dollars on finishing the wall to reduce the flow of illegal aliens to a trickle. Of course, the liberals will immediately blurt out that "Walls do not work", which is really rich just a month after holding their national convention in a facility guarded by two and three wall barriers. LOL, oh, the hypocrisy!

You realize of course that the vast majority of border crossings (legal and illegal) occur at US Ports of Entry. Is it a f-ed up mess? Yes. Would more walls in certain locations be a good thing? Sure.

This comprehensive article is pretty good informative. And while it doesn't set out to do so, it completely dismisses you BFF Trump's claims of 20 million immigrants illegally crossing our border under Biden. When you get done reading redstate.com and The Federalist, perhaps you should give it a look-see. BTW, the Annenberg Public Policy Center is non-partisan.

Breaking Down the Immigration Figures - FactCheck.org

Encounters on the southern border of those trying to enter the U.S. without authorization have gone up significantly under President Joe Biden. Government statistics show that in the initial processing of millions of encounters, 2.5 million people have been released into the U.S. and 2.8 million...

www.factcheck.org

 

[mikalalas]

Bingo....Build a chips plant in Honduras and take away from China ...

That's a great idea, except both Demotards, Repubtards, and USA governmentards won't actually do something like that because they think that that would alienate China, and that that would raise tarifs against USA, from China, and make it so that China stopped buying things like Wheat, etc, from USA like they currently buy wheat from USA, etc, and that China would stop selling China chips, batteries, electronics, TV, stereo, DVD player's, electronic entertainment devices, cars, etc, to the USA, and that that the USA people would have to go without those things, because the USA does not buy those things from other countries, and does not manufacture a lot of those things, an or has limited manufacturing of those things, and that that would hurt the USA economy, and cause inflation to rise more, and cause a economic depression, etc.

And they are partially right and partially wrong about some to most of those things.

Certainly doing your idea would be very risky ED. And certainly the USA should, would, could, etc, wait until if USA has a Bill Clinton esque, Trump esque, awesome economy before doing some like that ED. Now is probably not a good time for that idea ED. Save that idea for later ED.

 

[mikalalas]

You realize of course that the vast majority of border crossings (legal and illegal) occur at US Ports of Entry. Is it a f-ed up mess? Yes. Would more walls in certain locations be a good thing? Sure.

This comprehensive article is pretty good informative. And while it doesn't set out to do so, it completely dismisses you BFF Trump's claims of 20 million immigrants illegally crossing our border under Biden. When you get done reading redstate.com and The Federalist, perhaps you should give it a look-see. BTW, the Annenberg Public Policy Center is non-partisan.

Breaking Down the Immigration Figures - FactCheck.org

Encounters on the southern border of those trying to enter the U.S. without authorization have gone up significantly under President Joe Biden. Government statistics show that in the initial processing of millions of encounters, 2.5 million people have been released into the U.S. and 2.8 million...

www.factcheck.org

Ok, I read that linked article. It says that there has been 6.5 mil that have tried to cross illegally into USA this year, and that 2.5 mil of those 6.5 mil have been released into USA, and that 1.6 mil of those 6.5 mil were got aways into USA, and that 2.5 mil released + 1.6 mil got ways into USA mean that there has been about 4.1, 4.2 mil out of 6.5 mil that in USA, who knows where, and that the USA, judicial system, courts, etc, are trusting the 2.5 mil to show up in USA courts, and not try to run, hide, not try to not show up in USA courts, etc.

Yes the Repubs are technically wrong, accidentally using the total number over years, slightly exaggerating the numbers, etc. And yes the Repubs don't need to do that, and shouldn't do that, as the that link acknowledges that this is still a shitty problem, that has grown shittier, worse under Biden, then any other USA president in USA history.

And so what in a way if the Repubs are slightly wrong about the numbers, and that problem is only slightly less shitty, then how really extremely shitty the problem is now, etc.

And the Repubs are right in blaming this extremely shitty problem on Biden, his Border policies, or lack of border policies, lack of border control, enforcement, etc.

And there is a lack of border control, enforcement, because of 2.5 mil released into USA, naively thinking that the 2.5 mil will just show up in court instead of going into hiding, etc, and because of 1.6 mil gotaways into USA, and because the link said that USA only deals with about 57% of the 6.5 mil that crossed illegally this year, and because 6.5 mil crossed illegally this year.

The problem is worse then it's ever been in past, and it's getting worse, and if, when, if continues, at some point in semi near future, it probably will get to about 8 mil to 20 mil in future, especially if, when, DEMOTARDS, like Bidentard, continue to make the problem worse.