So we are approaching the 3 month mark until the next so called Apple Cup. I will pass on this game (not that it will make any difference). This new cup has been shoved down our throats and we are supposed to obediently accept the new reality. Commingle with an institution that helped sink the conference, steal our AD, and then smuggly pats us on the back and says "too bad". This is the equivalence of screwing someones spouse and then accepting a dinner invitation to celebrate their new arrangement. They will do it without me and I hope others to send a message to the powers that be that we would like to maintain some sense of dignity. GO COUGS!!
Apple Cup holdout
- Thread starter cougarmike
- Start date
CougarMike, do you think Dr. Schulz has misread the room with the 5-year agreement to continue the series?
Interim AD Anne McCoy seems to be toeing the company line. Maybe that's a prerequisite to her getting the job long term?
“When we talk about the consternation about continuing the game for some fans … I feel like that game should always cause stress and consternation for both of our fan bases,” McCoy told the Seattle Times on Wednesday. “I just feel like, for the state of Washington, for the student-athletes and the fans at both schools, it was really important to continue it. I really do.
“For the foreseeable future, we envision playing that game, and I think it’s good for both universities that we do.”
Be interesting to see what the attendance will be at Qwest Field.
Interim AD Anne McCoy seems to be toeing the company line. Maybe that's a prerequisite to her getting the job long term?
“When we talk about the consternation about continuing the game for some fans … I feel like that game should always cause stress and consternation for both of our fan bases,” McCoy told the Seattle Times on Wednesday. “I just feel like, for the state of Washington, for the student-athletes and the fans at both schools, it was really important to continue it. I really do.
“For the foreseeable future, we envision playing that game, and I think it’s good for both universities that we do.”
Be interesting to see what the attendance will be at Qwest Field.
I think it's good they "stole" Chun. We need new blood in this new era.
I frankly think we need someone how can "do more with less," from a successful p5 school, ultimately how has WSU or area ties.
WSU athletics, from my view, has many areas where we just don't perform as well as we should. A change at the top is necessary.
Well, the negative ramifications of becoming a defacto G5 school don't stop at the coaches and recruits - the AD will now be lesser, I'm sure our president will be lesser, everything and everyone at the school will soon become G5 caliber. At this point I'm wondering why we even keep our D1 research status - open a trucking program and start handing out two year degrees. Might as well lean into the royal f-job that was delivered at the hands of the football elite.
I agree with most of what you say, although I am not sure how we can get someone from any P5 school, unless you mean an Associate AD. And "do more with less" from a "successful" P5 school seems like a difficult search.
But Anne McCoy is a weak choice. (no offense Anne). WSU has historically done that in many administrative areas. Hang around forever, kiss ass and don't make waves, and you will get the big job eventually through attrition. Not always true, but often. You could say the same about Teresa at the Pac-2 offices.
To Mike and Pete's posts - I understand Mike's sentiment. Don't know that I share it. I too will be interested in Apple Cup attendance and Peacock eyeballs. Lots of TV eyeballs to me are a big reason to have the game at all. And as or more important, the revenue. If this magical $4 milllion, I'm in. If it falls far short (my prediction), and/or if that revenue is mostly/solely dependent on OUR ticket sales, then F-it. I would be more inclined to have a lesser home and home and be asked to donate straight out.
It's R1, not D1. Lots of G5 and Div-1AA (CPS?) and non-football schools are R1, including by my count 6 in the mountain West. Your football stature is not meaningless perception-wise, but not much of a criteria (as in none) for R1 status.
All BS aside, WSU was ranked #178 in the US News National University rankings. There are a metric crap-ton of universities ranked ahead of us that don't have the crutch of Power 5 football. Our academic and research rankings aren't necessarily tied to athletics directly. It's often said that athletics is the front porch of a university....but good programs will still draw good students. Frankly, the "best" students probably aren't picking a school based on athletics anyway.....I know my daughter didn't. She's getting her degree from a D2 school and doesn't regret it for one second.
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The truth of the matter is that outside of post-graduate degrees and perhaps a handful of Ivy League/ private schools, it doesn't really matter much where you get your 4 year degree from regardless of their programs. They're all shit and spend way too much time making you take two years of non-related courses to make you a "well rounded person". Why a dunce who wants to paint naked ladies with his toes has to take college level math is beyond me, as is making a EE take comparative religious studies.
But I digress. My point was that there is a stench on WSU that has been placed upon them and it appears there is no washing it off.
We all have our own spin on this topic, and totally agree with alot said. Here's my spin of the four years:
The four years is designed to transition a kid out of high-school from 18 to 22. Nobody wants to hire an 18 year old, unless it's fast food, Starbucks, or retail.
It really doesn't matter where you go to school, unless you know you want to be a dentist, a sports broadcaster, an attorney, a physician, a film director, or an actor. (****).
In those four years....you learn to read, and think. Not sure about writing, because of ChatGBT AI.
The elite universities will not accept and approve your application within 7-10 days. The better schools takes 2 or 3 months, or even more, until you receive your acceptance letter. WSU accepts applications in about two weeks.
Young people don't care about college football. Their parents do, and sort of push them to the TV or drag them to games, but when they're older, they're going to choose where they want to go, despite of there football program, or D1 status.
When they get out of college, hopefully they have an internship....but even if they don't, if they make good choices, and not irresponsible living, they will eventually flourish whatever their gifts, talents and desires are....and eventually end of in the career that's a good or perfect fit. So, for the most part, it doesn't matter where they go to school, except except (**** a specialty major).....
That said...the truth about it, (and we have a 21 year old, who is transferring to Arizona State).....we all know that WSU is not an elite university as a whole in general. And with the Mountain West thing.....it is by far the biggest knockdown in our lives. It's reality, and hard to look in the mirror. Plus, anywhere you go in the country, ....Washington State is almost unknown to the vast majority across the U.S.
The four years is designed to transition a kid out of high-school from 18 to 22. Nobody wants to hire an 18 year old, unless it's fast food, Starbucks, or retail.
It really doesn't matter where you go to school, unless you know you want to be a dentist, a sports broadcaster, an attorney, a physician, a film director, or an actor. (****).
In those four years....you learn to read, and think. Not sure about writing, because of ChatGBT AI.
The elite universities will not accept and approve your application within 7-10 days. The better schools takes 2 or 3 months, or even more, until you receive your acceptance letter. WSU accepts applications in about two weeks.
Young people don't care about college football. Their parents do, and sort of push them to the TV or drag them to games, but when they're older, they're going to choose where they want to go, despite of there football program, or D1 status.
When they get out of college, hopefully they have an internship....but even if they don't, if they make good choices, and not irresponsible living, they will eventually flourish whatever their gifts, talents and desires are....and eventually end of in the career that's a good or perfect fit. So, for the most part, it doesn't matter where they go to school, except except (**** a specialty major).....
That said...the truth about it, (and we have a 21 year old, who is transferring to Arizona State).....we all know that WSU is not an elite university as a whole in general. And with the Mountain West thing.....it is by far the biggest knockdown in our lives. It's reality, and hard to look in the mirror. Plus, anywhere you go in the country, ....Washington State is almost unknown to the vast majority across the U.S.
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The last part is where it gets the hardest to judge what kind of impacts that WSU will see from this change. The truth is that any time that I say that I went to Wazzu, people will ask, "Is that where Drew Bledsoe/Ryan Leaf played football?" or "Didn't Mike Leach coach there?". In that respect, getting kicked down to Group of Five is a giant kick in the balls for us.
That being said, there isn't a single person that I've ever met outside of the Pacific Northwest that followed up their previous question with a comment along the lines of "My cousin Jimmy's son went there because he loved what he saw in your football team". Very few people outside of Washington or Idaho were going to pick WSU because of football.
There is a psychological blow for us and there might be a one year dip because of the change, but in the long term, WSU is the school that WSU has always been for most people. And with the diminishment of the importance of college football on the West Coast over the past 20 years and the very possible outcome that UW becomes a mid-tier B1G team, we may find that the long term changes are miniscule. WSU has always needed to make itself an attractive university to "students" as much as worry about athletics being the selling point for students.
My daughter didn't go to WSU for her ChemE degree because the professor that she talked to didn't do a good job of selling internship opportunities and they were shoved into a hand-me-down Vet Med building across campus from the rest of the engineering departments. She chose a school that's going to cost 40% more but is ranked in the Top 25 in Chemical Engineering programs nationwide that is known for the high salaries of its graduates and excellent placement rates.
Many of you are assuming that athletics and academics are tethered together, but that isn't the case. Depending on the source, WSU ranks anywhere between 70-150 as a public University.
WSU is the 2nd best and 2nd biggest public University in WA State. Expand the comparison to Oregon, Idaho, and Montana, and you'll see that WSU is the 2nd or 3rd best University in that 4-state region. That's not going to change because we compete athletically in the Mountain West Conference.
WSU is the 2nd best and 2nd biggest public University in WA State. Expand the comparison to Oregon, Idaho, and Montana, and you'll see that WSU is the 2nd or 3rd best University in that 4-state region. That's not going to change because we compete athletically in the Mountain West Conference.
Yeah, but that still doesn't change that they give acceptance letters in less then two weeks, and UW and ASU, (amongst others) takes about two months, or more.
That in itself is a bit concerning, for me anyways.
New article about Apple Cup on Brand X. uw has sold 18,000 tickets, WSU has sold 1,700. Can't say I'm too surprised. The wind has gone out of our sails. Cougs are being implored to buy tickets of course, but apparently to no avail. Dark days.
We just need to accept our new lot in life. 2024 will be a debacle off the field, attendance and donations will wither, making us even less desirable than before. Do the reverse merger while we still can and try to build some new excitement around the program. The Mtn West schools are moving along just fine. Recent new stadium for SDSU, and CSU for that matter. Wyoming and BSU are making renovations to theirs. There is no shame in realigning with a league that has 6 R1 universities, multiple land grant institutions, enrollments, fanbases and locations similar to ours. comparable stadiums. Retrench and create some certainty. This lame duck, dog begging for scraps situation will only get worse the longer we flounder around.
University-wise, I have not been following our upcoming enrollment or overall academic situation, but I don't think it is good.
We just need to accept our new lot in life. 2024 will be a debacle off the field, attendance and donations will wither, making us even less desirable than before. Do the reverse merger while we still can and try to build some new excitement around the program. The Mtn West schools are moving along just fine. Recent new stadium for SDSU, and CSU for that matter. Wyoming and BSU are making renovations to theirs. There is no shame in realigning with a league that has 6 R1 universities, multiple land grant institutions, enrollments, fanbases and locations similar to ours. comparable stadiums. Retrench and create some certainty. This lame duck, dog begging for scraps situation will only get worse the longer we flounder around.
University-wise, I have not been following our upcoming enrollment or overall academic situation, but I don't think it is good.
The assertion that "WSU already was ranked x with P5 status, so losing P5 status doesn't matter," as argued above, as well as this one, that it's the second-best public university in Washington, and that won't change, so this doesn't matter, don't make a ton of sense to me.
With regard to the first, yes, WSU's academic ranking has been falling anyway. That doesn't mean that an incremental loss of applications due to losing P5 status, and a corresponding decrease of selectivity metrics (the primary thing that matters for undergrad degree prestige), won't cause a further fall in prestige or place a lid on any increase in prestige that might otherwise be obtained.
Same thing with being the second-best public university in the state. Yeah, that's a foundation that puts some kind of floor in for enrollment, and is unlikely to change, but getting applicants from other states matters as well, as does keeping kids in-state who are looking at other options. ASU is the second-most prestigious public university in Arizona, for example, and if it lost P5 status for some reason and was in the small-time with Fresno State and its ilk, that absolutely would matter. It gets applicants from other states, too. Same for WSU, and that's likely to continue with the difficulty of admission to top schools in California, for example, showing no sign of decreasing. Big-time college athletics matter even more, I would argue, at a rural campus like WSU with comparably little going on than at most schools.
Looking at it from the opposite perspective, many universities have used athletic success to effect a massive change in their academic standing. It stands to reason that the opposite applies, too. I grant that being in P5 doesn't necessarily equate to nationally-relevant success, and also that it's possible to be relevant nationally despite being in the minor leagues (e.g., Boise State). That's not going to happen at WSU, though. I know just from common sense and having some kids looking at college in coming years that something like big-time athletics absolutely matters. It's just intuitive and makes sense as confirmed by my conversation with my son just now. He and his friends look at things like that at the margin, and to them, it's so intuitive that calling into question draws a puzzled look. These are kids who aren't even sports-obsessed, necessarily. They just look at, say, Colorado State or Fresno State, and both assume these are vastly inferior to, and pay no attention to it, relative to the Power 5 schools they hear about all the time, even though the academics might be similar in the case of some Big 12 and SEC schools, especially. No, they won't just make decisions based on that, but to me, it's like the arguments I used to hear in recruiting that myriad things "don't matter." They all matter, at least to some people and at least at some level. And again, I contend all of this matters more in Pullman than it would if the school was in a reasonably sized metro area.
You are correct that the changes that are happening might impact WSU more than other schools because of our location. That said, most years, our students have not been showing up for games in all that impressive of numbers and when you talk to kids today, football just isn't as big of a deal as it was. Is it possible that WSU will see a 10% drop in applications? Sure. Will it be a long term drop? Nobody knows.
The truth is that nobody knows what our longer term fate is. WSU and OSU might have amazing ratings on the CW and we get picked up by the Big 12. The ACC may fall apart and we may end up with a rebuilt Pac-12 that is at least a little compelling. The MWC merger may go better than some hope. We just don't know.
Lots of worrying about stuff that we can't control and changes in football aren't going to lead to less academic support for WSU in the long term.
We're all sports fans, so it's natural for people like us to assume that losing Power Conference football will negatively affect WSU academics. My son and several of his friends are super excited to be starting at WSU in August. I asked them if they were bummed about the Pac12 demotion, and they laughed and said no. My son could care less.
Boise State has over 22K students enrolled. Colorado State has over 32K. Fresno State has over 25K. San Diego State has over 30K. Western WA University has an enrollment of nearly 15K. Central is a little under 10K. Somehow those Universities manage to press on without D1 athletics.
Things will eventually level off, and WSU will continue to be the 2nd best regional public university in the Pacific NW.
Boise State has over 22K students enrolled. Colorado State has over 32K. Fresno State has over 25K. San Diego State has over 30K. Western WA University has an enrollment of nearly 15K. Central is a little under 10K. Somehow those Universities manage to press on without D1 athletics.
Things will eventually level off, and WSU will continue to be the 2nd best regional public university in the Pacific NW.
I’ll be at all the so-called Apple Cups in Pullman, as I and my wife have always been. Have only missed one game in eons and that was the 66-3 loss to Cal. I attended a funeral that was importan on that day. As a. Our fan I’ve done my share and more than enough. Season ticket holder for over 20 years, donate to the CAF every year and attend usually at least 1 or two away games every year. (Been to Corvallis 5 times, Eugene 4 times, Tucson twice, ASU twice, Stanford once, and Boise State once.) BTW, Bronco Stadium was way louder than Autzen, it wasn’t even close. Anyway, I don’t want to hear about not supporting the Cougs by skipping the crappy Apple Cup in Seattle at the Seahawks Stadium. ( oh, did some of those crappy games too.). People have a right, to not be feeling so good about CF. I still blame partially our crappy admin. We’re they asleep at the wheel? And as of u-dump. They suck and if people want to vent by not going this year, more power to them. I know how they feel. I’ll still be supporting the Cougs like I always have, but hey, give Coug fans a break. If we/they want to bitch or not show up for the Apple cup. Oh wee, for this year.
As long as the top 9 vote to dissolve the MWC, and leave Hawai, New Mexico, Nevada, bottom 3 behind, and then reverse merge join PAC 2/12/X, which is COMPLETELY FREE, then I'm ok with that.
HELL NO to the bottom 3 of Hawai, New Mexico, Nevada joining the PAC 2/12.
Then after that, ACC leftovers, Memphis, Tulane, USF, can later join or merge with PAC if they would like to later on.
Applications are actually up this year. The whole financial aid fiasco actually helped WSU a bit in that regard, or seemed to. But, applications don’t mean much if the kids never show up.
Couldn't give a s**t about this game. Wouldn't attend if I was nearby and won't be throwing it on the TV to watch.
I'll have plenty of more fun s**t to do on a Saturday in September.
I'll have plenty of more fun s**t to do on a Saturday in September.
It's never been easier to quit giving a damn about college athletics.
Yeah totally but I just hate Seattle because its a sh!thole not really because the Apple Cup will be there this year.
Doing biz with someone that constantly bends you over is not the way to move your biz forward.
I understand why the deal was signed. WSU needed games, could have found themselves pretty jammed up without the deal. However, after this is done, it is time to move on from doing biz with the uw. They have shown who they are for 100 years. Believe them.
Not to mention, no reason why a WSU-OSU "Columbia Cup" can't become as big as the "Apple Cup" over time.
If/when the Pac/MWC merger takes place, WSU-Boise State could be huge, too
If UW agrees to maintain the home and home rotation, that’s cool. If they don’t, we terminate the deal. It’s really that simple.
I would assume that the five-year deal is pretty ironclad, and further assume that Pullman is next year, then uw, then Pullman, then uw.
Yes. This years Seattle game has Coug fans bent, which is dumb. We needed a game, it doesn’t count as a WSU home game, we get 50% of the gate, and it’s not in Husky stadium.
If UW backs out of the next 4 games, so be it. We’ll move on. If they want to keep rotating home games, that’s great. We won’t have a more popular home game to replace it with.
The difference will be that the hate isn’t there with OSU.
I hate BSU, but it’s not the same as UW.
Message board fans may not like it, but the game will continue unless UW ends it by making unreasonable demands. Even for them, it’s a massive TV ratings game that’s impossible to replace.
