If you don’t have any leadership in your HC at this level, nothing below that is going to matter. You are such an expert on all things football I’m surprised you are unable to grasp that.
Are we gonna win this battle?
- Thread starter kougkurt
- Start date
Just for some perspective, let's compare WSU's 10-player early class to the number of signings by other Pac-12 schools:
UW- 5
ASU- 6
UO- 7
USC- 7
WSU- 10
UCLA- 11
Cal- 11
OSU- 16
Colo- 19
Utah- 20
Ariz- 21
Stan- 25
Note that 4 of the 5 schools with the lowest number of signings this early period have new coaches, including WSU. And of those 4 schools, Dickert signed the most players. That all suggests it's challenging to sign a full class during coaching transitions. I don't have a problem with WSU's early signings and look forward to what happes in February with a full complement of coaches working the pipeline. The group assembled so far doesn't appear to be lazy, but we'll know more in the next couple of months.
Glad Cougar
UW- 5
ASU- 6
UO- 7
USC- 7
WSU- 10
UCLA- 11
Cal- 11
OSU- 16
Colo- 19
Utah- 20
Ariz- 21
Stan- 25
Note that 4 of the 5 schools with the lowest number of signings this early period have new coaches, including WSU. And of those 4 schools, Dickert signed the most players. That all suggests it's challenging to sign a full class during coaching transitions. I don't have a problem with WSU's early signings and look forward to what happes in February with a full complement of coaches working the pipeline. The group assembled so far doesn't appear to be lazy, but we'll know more in the next couple of months.
Glad Cougar
If Biggs walked in and made that sales pitch to an 18 year old they would probably sign. Because they would be betting on the fact that the a-hole who is in their living room is going to be gone before they ever have to be coached by him.
The reality is 99% of kids want to commit to a stable situation. How many kids who committed early to USC found themselves without a home when Riley was hired? Why in the world would you view WSU as a serious option if you don't know if the coaching staff will run an offense/defense that you fit?
I thought they should have named Dickert the HC after the ASU win. It would have given him four more months to recruit with the promise of sticking around. Unfortunately, Pat Chun wanted to take his time and recruiting suffered in the short term.
If you’ve been doing your job for two years kids sign.
2 bad you aren’t smarter tough guy.
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You aren’t grasping what Im writing. Not surprising. 2 bad you aren’t smarter.
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Spurrier owned a house in Pullman. I am pretty sure he sold it to Dickert when he left.
WE can second guess Chun, and when was the time to make the Dickert hire official, but I didn't have a problem with waiting until after the AC, once you are hired there is pressure to add assistants ASAP. The options to add those assistants open up much quicker after the season than during the season so I don't know that 2 weeks would have help at that much in recruiting, they were still out recruiting during the bye week and selling a program. Just like Dickert seemed to have a solid game plan for each game, he seems to have a solid plan for his assistants. The staff seems to come from a broad range of coaching background and connections and recruiting areas, on paper it appears he has made some great hires.
As for recruiting it's still early and we have a long ways to go until February, it's still to early to be calling recruiting a success but they appear to be off to a good start, and have won some battles, still a lot of holes to plug, the O line is still a concern going into next year. Welcome aboard to Daiyan Henley, and kudos to your Mom for baking those cakes, nice move, it was original I liked it. Once a Coug Always a Coug!
As for recruiting it's still early and we have a long ways to go until February, it's still to early to be calling recruiting a success but they appear to be off to a good start, and have won some battles, still a lot of holes to plug, the O line is still a concern going into next year. Welcome aboard to Daiyan Henley, and kudos to your Mom for baking those cakes, nice move, it was original I liked it. Once a Coug Always a Coug!
I don’t think any of those schools are hungry. Chip Kelly with 11? Really? Wtf are they doing down there? Cal with 11? Wtf are they doing?
They had 5 coaches that spent 2 years building to this day. If they were doing their job, if they were giving great effort, how do 5 guys come up with 1 kid from California combined?
That doesn’t seem weak to you? Even with all the drama. 5 full time assistant coaches can’t get more than 1 kid in California excited about WSU football??? A brand new HC that is such a great guy… if he was recruiting for 2 years doesnt have 5 kids himself that he can call and say “hey I got the head job. Can I count on you?” JD doesn’t have 5 kids like that???
Im not talking about a class of 50. Or 25.
Raise your standards off the floor. Expect more from WSU. Good grief. 1 kid from California. 2 kids from 1 city in WA. Not impressed.
Go ahead. Make more excuses. Give these guys hundreds of thousands of dollars. Make them millionaires. Give them generational wealth. Have genuinely low expectations.
If there is any work to be done it will be the new hires. The guys that stayed havent done shit.
Guy who plans and coordinates recruiting spends August-October being “maybe” fired. BTW he’s the California recruiter. Guy who runs team spends August-October being fired. Commits stop as soon as employee status questions start arising. Half the staff meets employment mandate but doesn’t know where they stand. Recruits start looking elsewhere because some coaches or all coaches may not be there at the end of the year. It’s not that they dislike WSU it’s that they don’t know what is going on. WSU is in the news everyday and on ESPN because their coach is “antivax” and looking at termination. Kids say F that, not getting involved there. Coaches are fired. Relationships are now severed with recruits. The compliant part of the staff now has to work 2x as hard just to prep for games. Underling mans recruiting. Now they get to offer kids while they may be terminated in 5 weeks. Or try to reassure kids they they may be there in 5 weeks. Even if they aren’t terminated they have little info as far as systems for the next season and who coaches will be. Your imagining Dickert walking into a house and telling parents and kids just sign here because I’m the coach and you’ll get a scholarship. Kids have plenty of choices now a days. They get advice from coaches, they can read any story in an instant. They are tuned in. There is no way we were going to sign out a full class under the circumstances without lowering the quality of commits. I’m personally glad they didn’t spam offers to guys they were mediocre on just to fill the class.
Is it wildly unreasonable to think that there would be, call it 8 kids, in California excited about WSU but waiting to hear if their guy JD got the job??? And when they got the call, they’re in. Is that crazy?
I understand JD didn’t have a lot of time from being named the HC to signing date. Im saying that if he and his staff had been busting their asses, which is what you have to do in Pullman, they wouldn’t have 1 kid from California to show for it. Because it wasn’t ONLY a two week window. They didnt have ONLY two weeks to call. They had 2 years.
The P12 is not a hungry league. Only 2 schools really got after it. It’s like the entire league punted on signing day.
I understand JD didn’t have a lot of time from being named the HC to signing date. Im saying that if he and his staff had been busting their asses, which is what you have to do in Pullman, they wouldn’t have 1 kid from California to show for it. Because it wasn’t ONLY a two week window. They didnt have ONLY two weeks to call. They had 2 years.
The P12 is not a hungry league. Only 2 schools really got after it. It’s like the entire league punted on signing day.
You read into my posts. This is fake news. You made up what I said to fit the narrative of what you wanted to say.
Everyone grasps what you are writing. That's WHY they disagree.
They don’t. But we will see if JD can land some kids or if it was the work of his new hires that showed up to work and not sit around the office drinking red bull and coffee.
I'm stunned why anyone continues to back and forth with him. Biggs is carrying the torch for Ed now that most people know not to engage Ed because they are both pedantic twats who seem to only post contrarian opinions to rile up the board. They're the Colin Cowherd of message boards.
I'm curious how anyone on either side of the Dickert will / won't make it argument can justify their positions at this stage of his tenure.
I'm extremely happy that we retained Dickert, as this one of the better feel good stories and teams in my many years of following WSU football. I really like the guy and the staff he's assembled. If he fails, I don't think it will be due to lack of effort or lousy personal conduct. With that said, I have no idea how he'll do long term. The same can be said for UW's and UO's new coaches as well.
What gives me hope is that Dickert is taking over WSU, not only at a high point, but at a time where he was directly responsible for righting the ship and navigating us to an Apple Cup win and a bowl game. He picked up on the job P5 head coach training that is unheard of in this business. He also coached under Craig Bohl, whom I consider to be one of the top coaching mentors in college football; particularly when it comes to doing it "the right way." On top of all that, the roster is well positioned for another fun season next year.
If we hit a bump in the road with regard to recruiting this season, that excuse is gone moving forward. We have a young, energic and well regarded coaching staff, a highly thought of young QB, and some program momentum with 6 bowls in 7 years. If the best hire UW and Oregon could find were a G5 coach with mostly DIII experience and a P5 coordinator 3,000 miles away, WSU did the right thing in retaining Dickert. Moving forward, it's up to him, as it is for all coaches.
I'm extremely happy that we retained Dickert, as this one of the better feel good stories and teams in my many years of following WSU football. I really like the guy and the staff he's assembled. If he fails, I don't think it will be due to lack of effort or lousy personal conduct. With that said, I have no idea how he'll do long term. The same can be said for UW's and UO's new coaches as well.
What gives me hope is that Dickert is taking over WSU, not only at a high point, but at a time where he was directly responsible for righting the ship and navigating us to an Apple Cup win and a bowl game. He picked up on the job P5 head coach training that is unheard of in this business. He also coached under Craig Bohl, whom I consider to be one of the top coaching mentors in college football; particularly when it comes to doing it "the right way." On top of all that, the roster is well positioned for another fun season next year.
If we hit a bump in the road with regard to recruiting this season, that excuse is gone moving forward. We have a young, energic and well regarded coaching staff, a highly thought of young QB, and some program momentum with 6 bowls in 7 years. If the best hire UW and Oregon could find were a G5 coach with mostly DIII experience and a P5 coordinator 3,000 miles away, WSU did the right thing in retaining Dickert. Moving forward, it's up to him, as it is for all coaches.
OK, not sure your point. His family didn't move to Pullman, as they were finishing up school in Kentucky. That was the point I was making. In other words, Deboer wasn't using his time dealing with moving issues because his family does not need to move to Seattle right now.
This is really odd take on the situation, but I can see no one is going to change your mind.
Because Ed and Biggs post opinions that are different than yours, you get all riled up.
I don't care that they post opinions counter to mine - its the hubris of Biggs that drives me nuts. I mean, why is he on a message board if he just wants to shout at the sky and tell everyone else they are wrong. He's mercurial with his opinions and he makes a point of telling someone not only are they wrong, but how stupid they are, many times without offering an opinion of his own (which is always the right one, btw). Additionally, whatever the staff and players are currently doing is WRONG. Never has there been a season, gameplan, personnel (ALWAYS loves the backup QB), or coach who is doing the right thing in his eyes, eg this recruiting cycle. EVERYTHING with him is bitch, bitch, bitch, and now he's taken it up a notch by insulting other posters. IDGAF (though I don't see the point of it) that he's here posting, but telling virtually every other person on this board that they are stupid and have no standing to have an opinion (because supposedly he's some big, bad coach) is insane to me. And honestly, while we're all trying to be optimistic about the future at WSU given the circumstances, he spends all of his energy posting not that THINGS are horrible, but that the people in charge of our program (coaches) are horrible. And for some unknown reason other posters on this board give him agency to make such claims because he claims to know what he's talking about.
At least the dgib/ ed feud is genial most of the time.
Bleed...first two things...why insult twats and Biggs? And can I offer a contrarian opinion since you raised my name in a post I haven't even been involved in? But first I would love to know which contrarian opinion you really struggled with. The fact Leach said "level of coaching didn't matter"?. I agree with him, and maybe not you. Did you struggle with my opinion that I called Leach a top 15 coach?. I don't think that was that controversial. Maybe it was when he was hired I said he would have instant cred which was needed to get good o-lineman on campus.?
I didn't rank the 2012 class in 2012, 13 in 13, 14 in 14 etc in real time. I waited to see where those classes lined up. IE after we had data. I have always looked at the "numbers". If you get 25 kids, probably 13 would contribute. The 50% rule. Is that really contrarian?
Maybe it was that huge contrarian opinion of mine about Leach getting rid of dead weight? Offering and getting lineman on campus and if they turned out not to be Pac 12 players, they weren't taking up a scholie for 5 years. Not sure why that opinion would bother you.? Maybe my belief in the way Leach beach cut down lower leg injuries. That doesn't seem to go contrary to what Leach believed anyways.
But I did offer you a contrary opinion regarding Biggs. So here it is. I think he is incorrect in some of his assumptions and expectations. We are conditioned to the old days. Price/Wulff/Leach had their verbals in line and had 20 plus kids committed. Then on signing day it would blow up. 20 is down to 15 and they are left with plan C. And many times plan C works out better than plan A cause plan C will work harder.
Also, what Biggs isnt factoring in is that the early signing period is like foreplay. In terms of the early signing period of course numbers will be down for several reasons. The first is many athletes would "commit" to WSU and use that offer as a hedge until the one they wanted came along. The old way was simply "my word is strong as oak" until someone came and evaluated. Take 2010 and Paul Wulff. I had to go back in the archives, but if they had an early signing period just along the oline Stephen Nembot probably would have signed with WSU as he got an offer late from CU. Nembot was a three year starter. A kid (OG)I believe by the name of Mendenhall was a late switch to UCLA. With an early signing period you weed out the kids who want the offer and the ones who are just using WSU. Sankey in 2011 could have easily been a Coug with an early signing period.
A second place where I disagree with Biggs has been my personal expectations. First year recruiting classes suck. They just do. Doesn't do much good speculating Dickert was eating popcorn instead of recruiting.
Third, they did a complete about face in the staff. Why bring in kids who don't fit your system. Bring in the kids you know who do, and let the new staff get their own kids after the holiday break. If they get 10 productive kids out of this class I personally will jump for joy. I would love for WSU to find a Guata, a Destiny or Barber in this class to help up front.
Because we have a lot of starters returning, there is a decent base to help offset short term problems with recruiting.
I agree with you about Biggs...no question.
Should have clarified my response to just Ed..which is why I responded.
I can promise you that he is not trying to stir the pot just to stir it. Just not in his nature. He just likes to talk football and has his opinions.
I
If I may say the following...this is your problem not Biggs. If you seem him as a roid raged always right personality, you have several things at your disposal. One, totally ignore him. He is just a person behind a keyboard., He hasn't harmed you. He hasn't doxed you. He simply types the word..."you are wrong".
Second, you could easily view him as a clown, as I do for one of the posters on this board, and I truly get a chuckle,(IE Too funny"), out of his posts because of the immaturity, the Eddie Haskell nature of his posts. Not to mention the true irony. Then there is a poster who I believe is truly a dick. But I will never engage him in such a manner. The reason is two fold. They don't matter to me. What matters to me are the important things in life. And Coug football is a joy. And when someone is responsible for taking away that joy, you give them control of your joy for WSU football.
We're on step 2 or 3 of a 10 step process to get to relevance.
Screaming how much everybody and everything sucks does nothing to help and only shows a complete ignorance of the situation. Its one thing to be stuck in mediocrity, its another to know and realize limitations at any given time and circumstance.
Help who? Again, like we on this board give T ford, CougEd or Biggs way too much credit for offering an opinion. We are fake names behind a keyboard. I would guess if I met you in person I would not call you "bleed". This is fantasyland... a place that should take us away from all the crap that will be there tomorrow.
Any other magical powers you want to wish upon him? (Baldwin & Wulff have had the early signing period at Cal Poly and don't seem to be killing it there)
"What if Paul Wulff was invisible?" might be next. Would he put it to use to steal game plans? Spy on recruits? Probably something more practical like getting more gumbo.
Sankey was never coming here. His early verbal was simply a vehicle for Wulff to avoid getting whacked after Year 2. Even Wulff's chief fluffer at Brand Woke admits that in the decommit story he wrote.
Well...he could have decommitted, but he did it without an offer from UW. Do you doubt if there was an early signing period that either Nembot takes WSU's only Pac 10 offer and waits to get a late offer from CU? That is sort of the point, nothing more or less.
Retaining a 5-32 coach who had perhaps 5 players on roster that belonged in the conference was probably pointed out to both players and their families.
btw, Nembot after bailing on the 5-32 coach ended up at Colorado who was 14-48 for his 5 years there. Best year of 4-8 was also Wulff's best year.
Their verbals were only necessary until December 5th when Moos had press conference to state Wulff was getting a 4th year. (For a supposed "football AD" an appalling decision but the 9-40 death cult had more support than any coach since then).
They would have flipped elsewhere between Dec 5th and whatever imaginary December 2010 early signing deadline that would have been in place.
Again, I get you cant see straight when the name Wulff is brought up. Still would have been fired, still the worst coach and human ever. Maybe that will help you out. But what the early signing period does and to my point takes away the "verbal". You know who is real and who isn't. That would be the point. Not whether Wulff got a good class or bad.
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