Arrogance Killed The PAC... Learn From It

[PlutoDroid]

I'm in Arizona, but come from SEC territory. A Gator fan but an FSU graduate.

You guys had a chance to become a more powerful league back in 2011/12 when Texas and Oklahoma came to Larry Scott looking for an invite. Reports are that it was the Longhorn Network that caused Texas to pull out. But Oklahoma was still very interested, except Stanford and Cal nixed them because of their academic standing. That was a mistake.

Fast forward to 2021, the SEC accepts Texas and Oklahoma into the league. The Big 12 came to Larry once again, talked about some sort of merger that just might have kept Oregon and Washington in line. I believe USC wanted out after seeing how the B1G operated in fooling old Larry into an alliance that meant nothing. But old Larry had no interest in that truck stop league.


He followed the B1G like always, not as old partners but like a younger brother. Just look at the 2020 cancellation, then announcement of a shortened season . Larry chuckled at silly old Bob Bowlsby. After all the PAC and B1G were partners.


Fast forward to 2022. The Big 12 accepted their place, added the best schools they could. The PAC sat stunned as USC and UCLA bolted to the B1G. Betrayed!!!


Oregon and Washington were vetted, but the B1G said they were done for now. So for a year Oregon and Washington sat, watched the SEC, B1G sign billion dollar media agreements. The PAC kept saying a deal was coming.....months passed by. The 2022 season came. 2023 season was coming up with no deal. Then in June the Big 12 announced a television deal that put them well behind the B1G and SEC, but comparable to the ACC.

Oregon, Washington, Colorado, and Arizona learned the deal the Big 12 got was on the table unsigned for months for the PAC. But the PAC thought they should get B1G money because..... History?

Then in July the killing blow. The PAC revealed their deal was with....Apple. For less than the ACC and Big 12. Boom, that was it.


Blame Oregon, blame Washington. Heck you can say Colorado and Arizona were sabotaging the PAC from inside. But the truth is the PAC had four different time periods in the last decade where they could've made themselves one of the Big 3, or at least remain a distant third. Now it's done, the major offending parties are either fired or in P4 leagues.


What can be done now? Either make the best with whatever remnant resources and time period you have left from the PAC. Or you can tell the MW, American, and the best of the rest that they need to come to you. Sit on your payout and let it drain.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

I'm in Arizona, but come from SEC territory. A Gator fan but an FSU graduate.

You guys had a chance to become a more powerful league back in 2011/12 when Texas and Oklahoma came to Larry Scott looking for an invite. Reports are that it was the Longhorn Network that caused Texas to pull out. But Oklahoma was still very interested, except Stanford and Cal nixed them because of their academic standing. That was a mistake.

Fast forward to 2021, the SEC accepts Texas and Oklahoma into the league. The Big 12 came to Larry once again, talked about some sort of merger that just might have kept Oregon and Washington in line. I believe USC wanted out after seeing how the B1G operated in fooling old Larry into an alliance that meant nothing. But old Larry had no interest in that truck stop league.


He followed the B1G like always, not as old partners but like a younger brother. Just look at the 2020 cancellation, then announcement of a shortened season . Larry chuckled at silly old Bob Bowlsby. After all the PAC and B1G were partners.


Fast forward to 2022. The Big 12 accepted their place, added the best schools they could. The PAC sat stunned as USC and UCLA bolted to the B1G. Betrayed!!!


Oregon and Washington were vetted, but the B1G said they were done for now. So for a year Oregon and Washington sat, watched the SEC, B1G sign billion dollar media agreements. The PAC kept saying a deal was coming.....months passed by. The 2022 season came. 2023 season was coming up with no deal. Then in June the Big 12 announced a television deal that put them well behind the B1G and SEC, but comparable to the ACC.

Oregon, Washington, Colorado, and Arizona learned the deal the Big 12 got was on the table unsigned for months for the PAC. But the PAC thought they should get B1G money because..... History?

Then in July the killing blow. The PAC revealed their deal was with....Apple. For less than the ACC and Big 12. Boom, that was it.


Blame Oregon, blame Washington. Heck you can say Colorado and Arizona were sabotaging the PAC from inside. But the truth is the PAC had four different time periods in the last decade where they could've made themselves one of the Big 3, or at least remain a distant third. Now it's done, the major offending parties are either fired or in P4 leagues.


What can be done now? Either make the best with whatever remnant resources and time period you have left from the PAC. Or you can tell the MW, American, and the best of the rest that they need to come to you. Sit on your payout and let it drain.

Lots of words.....but they don't really accomplish anything. Right now, all WSU and OSU can tell anyone is that if they join up with us, they will be the 5th best conference in college football but nobody will take them seriously....or they can also hold out in the hopes that the Big 12 comes calling or that the ACC falls apart and creates new opportunity. We have ZERO leverage right now.

I do agree that I hope that WSU and OSU are quietly talking behind the scenes with the MWC and some other schools and needs to avoid the arrogance of the past, but it's important to note that WSU and OSU weren't part of the problem in your discussions above. The traitorous ten were the villains in the story...not us. The money that's out there right now for the MWC, AAC and C-USA is such small chump change that there is no value in WSU or OSU making rash public decisions. We need to not be arrogant but we also can't be doing anything to destroy the last vestiges of value that we have left. Even that doesn't matter because greedy f#cksticks from schools like Florida are worried about what they can get at the cost of the sport overall. Every school that isn't in the final club is getting sidelined permanently in the future in the pursuit of greed.

Frankly, I actively root for the demise of all college sports because of what's happened. The unethical backstabbing, illogical decision making and blind hypocrisy of the last year has been mind numbing. I actively hope that class action lawsuits because of CTE kills the f#cking sport because it deserves to die. But hey....I'm just a pissed off fan of a team that's been f#cked over...so don't mind me.

 

[dgibbons]

I'm in Arizona, but come from SEC territory. A Gator fan but an FSU graduate.

You guys had a chance to become a more powerful league back in 2011/12 when Texas and Oklahoma came to Larry Scott looking for an invite. Reports are that it was the Longhorn Network that caused Texas to pull out. But Oklahoma was still very interested, except Stanford and Cal nixed them because of their academic standing. That was a mistake.

Fast forward to 2021, the SEC accepts Texas and Oklahoma into the league. The Big 12 came to Larry once again, talked about some sort of merger that just might have kept Oregon and Washington in line. I believe USC wanted out after seeing how the B1G operated in fooling old Larry into an alliance that meant nothing. But old Larry had no interest in that truck stop league.


He followed the B1G like always, not as old partners but like a younger brother. Just look at the 2020 cancellation, then announcement of a shortened season . Larry chuckled at silly old Bob Bowlsby. After all the PAC and B1G were partners.


Fast forward to 2022. The Big 12 accepted their place, added the best schools they could. The PAC sat stunned as USC and UCLA bolted to the B1G. Betrayed!!!


Oregon and Washington were vetted, but the B1G said they were done for now. So for a year Oregon and Washington sat, watched the SEC, B1G sign billion dollar media agreements. The PAC kept saying a deal was coming.....months passed by. The 2022 season came. 2023 season was coming up with no deal. Then in June the Big 12 announced a television deal that put them well behind the B1G and SEC, but comparable to the ACC.

Oregon, Washington, Colorado, and Arizona learned the deal the Big 12 got was on the table unsigned for months for the PAC. But the PAC thought they should get B1G money because..... History?

Then in July the killing blow. The PAC revealed their deal was with....Apple. For less than the ACC and Big 12. Boom, that was it.


Blame Oregon, blame Washington. Heck you can say Colorado and Arizona were sabotaging the PAC from inside. But the truth is the PAC had four different time periods in the last decade where they could've made themselves one of the Big 3, or at least remain a distant third. Now it's done, the major offending parties are either fired or in P4 leagues.


What can be done now? Either make the best with whatever remnant resources and time period you have left from the PAC. Or you can tell the MW, American, and the best of the rest that they need to come to you. Sit on your payout and let it drain.

You're quite a contradictory fellow.

Poor leadership, rather than arrogance in my opinion. The decision to DIY the Pac-12 Networks was a disaster. That's what killed the Pac-12.

 

[CougPatrol]

I don't think the situation is all that difficult to dissect. WSU and OSU are working hard to secure a P4 bid in the wake of looming additional realignment if and when the ACC fragments. If that doesn't happen, then we'll have to move towards reforming a conference, even if it means settling for the assembly of the top G5 league.

For now, leveraging our position(s) as the 2nd best Seattle/Northwest market programs is the right move. I think there's going to be network that wants to offer a competing window against Oregon/UW.

 

[95coug]

I'm in Arizona, but come from SEC territory. A Gator fan but an FSU graduate.

You guys had a chance to become a more powerful league back in 2011/12 when Texas and Oklahoma came to Larry Scott looking for an invite. Reports are that it was the Longhorn Network that caused Texas to pull out. But Oklahoma was still very interested, except Stanford and Cal nixed them because of their academic standing. That was a mistake.

Fast forward to 2021, the SEC accepts Texas and Oklahoma into the league. The Big 12 came to Larry once again, talked about some sort of merger that just might have kept Oregon and Washington in line. I believe USC wanted out after seeing how the B1G operated in fooling old Larry into an alliance that meant nothing. But old Larry had no interest in that truck stop league.


He followed the B1G like always, not as old partners but like a younger brother. Just look at the 2020 cancellation, then announcement of a shortened season . Larry chuckled at silly old Bob Bowlsby. After all the PAC and B1G were partners.


Fast forward to 2022. The Big 12 accepted their place, added the best schools they could. The PAC sat stunned as USC and UCLA bolted to the B1G. Betrayed!!!


Oregon and Washington were vetted, but the B1G said they were done for now. So for a year Oregon and Washington sat, watched the SEC, B1G sign billion dollar media agreements. The PAC kept saying a deal was coming.....months passed by. The 2022 season came. 2023 season was coming up with no deal. Then in June the Big 12 announced a television deal that put them well behind the B1G and SEC, but comparable to the ACC.

Oregon, Washington, Colorado, and Arizona learned the deal the Big 12 got was on the table unsigned for months for the PAC. But the PAC thought they should get B1G money because..... History?

Then in July the killing blow. The PAC revealed their deal was with....Apple. For less than the ACC and Big 12. Boom, that was it.


Blame Oregon, blame Washington. Heck you can say Colorado and Arizona were sabotaging the PAC from inside. But the truth is the PAC had four different time periods in the last decade where they could've made themselves one of the Big 3, or at least remain a distant third. Now it's done, the major offending parties are either fired or in P4 leagues.


What can be done now? Either make the best with whatever remnant resources and time period you have left from the PAC. Or you can tell the MW, American, and the best of the rest that they need to come to you. Sit on your payout and let it drain.

Let me sum up:

Larry Scott was a bad commissioner who squandered opportunities. George Kliatkoff was a bad commissioner who couldn't identify the need to work quickly and proactively to get a new deal in place.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

I don't think the situation is all that difficult to dissect. WSU and OSU are working hard to secure a P4 bid in the wake of looming additional realignment if and when the ACC fragments. If that doesn't happen, then we'll have to move towards reforming a conference, even if it means settling for the assembly of the top G5 league.

For now, leveraging our position(s) as the 2nd best Seattle/Northwest market programs is the right move. I think there's going to be network that wants to offer a competing window against Oregon/UW.

This. Patrol is right. And though no fan would relish a bunch of our schedule being "after dark" games, that is a part of the value that we bring. We don't just bring decent TV ratings; we also bring a time window. Both which have value.

 

[mikalalas]

Let me sum up:

Larry Scott was a bad commissioner who squandered opportunities. George Kliatkoff was a bad commissioner who couldn't identify the need to work quickly and proactively to get a new deal in place.

Kliatkoff also was NOT smart, influential enough to get PAC 12 leadership to add SDSU first, quickly like they had the chance to do, which if they had done quickly, and also raided Fresno St, in addition to SDSU, quickly, then a PAC 12, consisting of SDSU, Fresno St, Oregon, UW, CAL, Arizona, ASU, Colorado, Stanford, WSU, OSU, Utah, probably would have gotten a offer of 43 million, instead of 30 million, more then ACC, Big 12, and the PAC 12 would still be together, and WSU not left behind.

But Kliatkoff and the traitorous 10 president's had to be idiots that wouldn't first quickly add SDSU, Fresno St, and THEN negotiate a better, good, fair deal, dooming the PAC 12, WSU, etc.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Kliatkoff also was NOT smart, influential enough to get PAC 12 leadership to add SDSU first, quickly like they had the chance to do, which if they had done quickly, and also raided Fresno St, in addition to SDSU, quickly, then a PAC 12, consisting of SDSU, Fresno St, Oregon, UW, CAL, Arizona, ASU, Colorado, Stanford, WSU, OSU, Utah, probably would have gotten a offer of 43 million, instead of 30 million, more then ACC, Big 12, and the PAC 12 would still be together, and WSU not left behind.

But Kliatkoff and the traitorous 10 president's had to be idiots that wouldn't first quickly add SDSU, Fresno St, and THEN negotiate a better, good, fair deal, dooming the PAC 12, WSU, etc.

Are you done now?

 

[Wazzubrooz]

The pad wasn’t gonna get 43 million by adding those schools. Not even. heck, usc and ucla weren’t gonna help get the number. Where did you pull that number from?

 

[mikalalas]

The pad wasn’t gonna get 43 million by adding those schools. Not even. heck, usc and ucla weren’t gonna help get the number. Where did you pull that number from?

That number may or may not be too large, but it's semi close in the semi ball park.

Many think, say what you said, think, in either saying that USC, UCLA wouldn't get that number, or that UCLA, USC PAC only offered 30 mil, etc.

But the PAC only got offered 30 mil because PAC did not have, was losing USC, UCLA to the Big 10

And that 30 mil offer was the base offer. If PAC had negotiated, counter offered reasonably, realistically, then PAC would have gotten about 36,37,38 million, only a measily 6,7,8 mil more small increase from 30 mil.

And since PAC would have gotten a max of 38 mil had PAC negotiated, counter offered reasonably, instead of demanding 50+ mil, are you saying that a USC, UCLA PAC wouldn't have gotten a measly 5 mil more then 38 mil, which would be 43 mil?

UCLA, USC PAC, would have gotten about 47 to 50+ mil, based on UCLA, USC, because of LA, Oakland, San Fran San Diego, Orange County, Bay area, Southern California Metroplex, of millions of eyeballs potential, etc.

SDSU, Fresno St, would bring less value then USC, UCLA, but they would still have had enough Southern California Metroplex value, that since PAC(Without USC, UCLA, SDSU, Fresno St), would get about 38 mil, SDSU, Fresno St would probably add about 3,4, 3.5 extra value to 38 mil, and so because of that the PAC(With SDSU, Fresno St), would have gotten about 41.5 mil media deal, had the PAC negotiated, counter offered the 30 mil offer reasonably, realistically, AND had the PAC went and got SDSU, Fresno St first, immediately, quickly, before too much time passed, before trying to do, get new media deal, etc.

Do you think that the PAC(Without USC, UCLA), wouldn't have gotten 36, 37, 38 mil, if they had negotiated, counter offered more reasonably, realistically?

Do you think that SDSU, Fresno State, wouldn't have added a measly 3.5 million to a 35,36,37,38 mil PAC media deal?

SDSU, Fresno St, would have added at least 3.5 mil to a 35,36,37,38 mil PAC media deal(What the PAC would have gotten had the PAC negotiated, counter offered reasonably, realistically)

And a 39,40,41 mil PAC media Deal(The 35,36,37,38 mil PAC would have gotten if negotiated realistically + the about 4 mil from SDSU, Fresno St), would have been enough to have saved the PAC 12.

So Yes the 43 million was just barely a little tiny bit too much, but was semi close, semi in the ball park.

And you were getting hung up on the amount, which was close enough, and MISSED THE LARGER, MORE IMPORTANT POINT.

And that is, was that IF THE PAC 12 HAD GONE AFTER, GOTTEN SDSU, FRESNO ST, FIRST, IMMEDIATELY, BEFORE, trying to do, get, negotiate new media deal, then the PAC 12 would still have Oregon, UW, Utah, Stanford, Cal, Arizona, ASU, Colorado, WSU, OSU + SDSU, Fresno St.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

I'm in Arizona, but come from SEC territory. A Gator fan but an FSU graduate.

You guys had a chance to become a more powerful league back in 2011/12 when Texas and Oklahoma came to Larry Scott looking for an invite. Reports are that it was the Longhorn Network that caused Texas to pull out. But Oklahoma was still very interested, except Stanford and Cal nixed them because of their academic standing. That was a mistake.

Fast forward to 2021, the SEC accepts Texas and Oklahoma into the league. The Big 12 came to Larry once again, talked about some sort of merger that just might have kept Oregon and Washington in line. I believe USC wanted out after seeing how the B1G operated in fooling old Larry into an alliance that meant nothing. But old Larry had no interest in that truck stop league.


He followed the B1G like always, not as old partners but like a younger brother. Just look at the 2020 cancellation, then announcement of a shortened season . Larry chuckled at silly old Bob Bowlsby. After all the PAC and B1G were partners.


Fast forward to 2022. The Big 12 accepted their place, added the best schools they could. The PAC sat stunned as USC and UCLA bolted to the B1G. Betrayed!!!


Oregon and Washington were vetted, but the B1G said they were done for now. So for a year Oregon and Washington sat, watched the SEC, B1G sign billion dollar media agreements. The PAC kept saying a deal was coming.....months passed by. The 2022 season came. 2023 season was coming up with no deal. Then in June the Big 12 announced a television deal that put them well behind the B1G and SEC, but comparable to the ACC.

Oregon, Washington, Colorado, and Arizona learned the deal the Big 12 got was on the table unsigned for months for the PAC. But the PAC thought they should get B1G money because..... History?

Then in July the killing blow. The PAC revealed their deal was with....Apple. For less than the ACC and Big 12. Boom, that was it.


Blame Oregon, blame Washington. Heck you can say Colorado and Arizona were sabotaging the PAC from inside. But the truth is the PAC had four different time periods in the last decade where they could've made themselves one of the Big 3, or at least remain a distant third. Now it's done, the major offending parties are either fired or in P4 leagues.


What can be done now? Either make the best with whatever remnant resources and time period you have left from the PAC. Or you can tell the MW, American, and the best of the rest that they need to come to you. Sit on your payout and let it drain.

Cool story, bro.

In other news, water is wet and the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.

 

[UberCougars]

Are you done now?

Are you?

 

[UberCougars]

https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2024/aug/08/dave-boling-wsus-jake-dickert-obviously-knows-his-/

 

[250vertical]

The last chance for the PAC was immediately after Oklahoma and Texas announced they were headed to the SEC. Bob Bowlsby was still commissioner, and was still stunned. Kansas, Oklahoma St., would taken a PAC invite, as at that time it looked like the Big 12 was coming apart. It sounds like they were turned down. mostly by the academic elites Then Yormark arrived on the scene. After USC and UCLA announce they were leaving for the BIG, and Oregon and Washington going crazy trying to get into the BIG 10, he saw the opportunity of splitting up the PAC, and began with Colorado's return (with a little bonus) to the BIG 12. Then he waited for what he knew was going to be Kliatkoff's disastrous media presentation to his conference members. His phone started ringing immediately after.
It will be interesting how Yormark engineers the ACC implosion, if FSU and Clemson are successful in leaving.
Yormark is the Joseph Stalin of realignment. Who would have thought that it would be the Big 12 that emerged as the third conference - though a distant third money wise - after picking apart the choice cuts of what was left of the PAC and possibly the ACC.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

The last chance for the PAC was immediately after Oklahoma and Texas announced they were headed to the SEC. Bob Bowlsby was still commissioner, and was still stunned. Kansas, Oklahoma St., would taken a PAC invite, as at that time it looked like the Big 12 was coming apart. It sounds like they were turned down. mostly by the academic elites Then Yormark arrived on the scene. After USC and UCLA announce they were leaving for the BIG, and Oregon and Washington going crazy trying to get into the BIG 10, he saw the opportunity of splitting up the PAC, and began with Colorado's return (with a little bonus) to the BIG 12. Then he waited for what he knew was going to be Kliatkoff's disastrous media presentation to his conference members. His phone started ringing immediately after.
It will be interesting how Yormark engineers the ACC implosion, if FSU and Clemson are successful in leaving.
Yormark is the Joseph Stalin of realignment. Who would have thought that it would be the Big 12 that emerged as the third conference - though a distant third money wise - after picking apart the choice cuts of what was left of the PAC and possibly the ACC.

If you thought the bots were gone, this is a perfect AI summation of the conference realignment.

 

[95coug]

The last chance for the PAC was immediately after Oklahoma and Texas announced they were headed to the SEC. Bob Bowlsby was still commissioner, and was still stunned. Kansas, Oklahoma St., would taken a PAC invite, as at that time it looked like the Big 12 was coming apart. It sounds like they were turned down. mostly by the academic elites Then Yormark arrived on the scene. After USC and UCLA announce they were leaving for the BIG, and Oregon and Washington going crazy trying to get into the BIG 10, he saw the opportunity of splitting up the PAC, and began with Colorado's return (with a little bonus) to the BIG 12. Then he waited for what he knew was going to be Kliatkoff's disastrous media presentation to his conference members. His phone started ringing immediately after.
It will be interesting how Yormark engineers the ACC implosion, if FSU and Clemson are successful in leaving.
Yormark is the Joseph Stalin of realignment. Who would have thought that it would be the Big 12 that emerged as the third conference - though a distant third money wise - after picking apart the choice cuts of what was left of the PAC and possibly the ACC.

Yormark’s best move was starting the Big 12 media negotiations early. Kliavkoff took the opposite approach, thinking that if he waited he could get a better deal and more bidders. After USC/UCLA left, we needed to move quickly - should have immediately snapped up SDSU to maintain a SoCal presence, and gone straight to negotiations with media.
Yormark read the writing on the wall correctly. By beating the Pac-12 to a deal, he got a better one than he would have a year later. More importantly gave the major networks the content they knew they had to pay for and eliminated their urgency to create content…and he sucked up the available money. It changed the media landscape and left Kliavkoff and the PAC-12 to beg for the leftovers.