As an attorney, my advice to WSU/OSU is ...

[Cougsocal]

Go out and retain high end Wall Street legal counsel, ASAP. It will set an immediate tone and send a message. If we do this on the cheap, i.e. have in-house AGs try to handle this, they will likely be swamped and won't be taken seriously. This is new legal territory and the issue are complex and multifaceted. We need to send a message to Feckless 10, the Power 4 and the NCAA, and possibly the networks, that we mean business, and our future athletic won't be swept under the rug. We are expected to lose 20 to 30 million in revenue per year. That is hundreds of millions over the next decade and beyond. Both schools are deeply in debt, due in substantial part to detrimental reliance, at a bare minimum. If this isn't the time to be willing to go to war, and I mean war, when is?

Could we get USFL'ed? Quite possibly. But it is time to start fighting back, and not slink off meekly in oblivion.

 

[whoisyaodaddy]

Agreed. Also an attorney. Assistant AGs deal with fiscal matters, contracts, and personnel issues at WSU. They are ill equipped to handle a possible anti-trust investigation against the networks or possible fraud by false representation claims against UW/UO. Any lawsuit against UW would need to be conflicted out by the WA AGs office anyways.

 

[firecoug]

I can’t agree more. A hotshot firm also will have access to world class investigatory resources, resources the school and state attorneys are unlikely to even know about.

 

[Observer11]

As a non-attorney, my advice is to follow Shakespeare's writings.

 

[ttowncoug]

Go out and retain high end Wall Street legal counsel, ASAP. It will set an immediate tone and send a message. If we do this on the cheap, i.e. have in-house AGs try to handle this, they will likely be swamped and won't be taken seriously. This is new legal territory and the issue are complex and multifaceted. We need to send a message to Feckless 10, the Power 4 and the NCAA, and possibly the networks, that we mean business, and our future athletic won't be swept under the rug. We are expected to lose 20 to 30 million in revenue per year. That is hundreds of millions over the next decade and beyond. Both schools are deeply in debt, due in substantial part to detrimental reliance, at a bare minimum. If this isn't the time to be willing to go to war, and I mean war, when is?

Could we get USFL'ed? Quite possibly. But it is time to start fighting back, and not slink off meekly in oblivion.

They have hired "outside council"....i'm sure we will find out soon enough who that firm is.

This firm has represented the Pac-12 in the past, wouldn't be suprised if they involved.

Mayer Brown

Mayer Brown is a leading international law firm positioned to represent the world’s major corporations, funds, and financial institutions in their most important and complex transactions and disputes.

www.mayerbrown.com

 

[425cougfan]

MB is OK -- definitely a legitimate, but not what I would call elite, Chicago firm. Better than the kind of firm you'd see them usually get, though. They should bring in S&C or something.

 

[dgibbons]

Go out and retain high end Wall Street legal counsel, ASAP. It will set an immediate tone and send a message. If we do this on the cheap, i.e. have in-house AGs try to handle this, they will likely be swamped and won't be taken seriously. This is new legal territory and the issue are complex and multifaceted. We need to send a message to Feckless 10, the Power 4 and the NCAA, and possibly the networks, that we mean business, and our future athletic won't be swept under the rug. We are expected to lose 20 to 30 million in revenue per year. That is hundreds of millions over the next decade and beyond. Both schools are deeply in debt, due in substantial part to detrimental reliance, at a bare minimum. If this isn't the time to be willing to go to war, and I mean war, when is?

Could we get USFL'ed? Quite possibly. But it is time to start fighting back, and not slink off meekly in oblivion.

WSU retained outside counsel. Not sure who.

 

[dgibbons]

They have hired "outside council"....i'm sure we will find out soon enough who that firm is.

This firm has represented the Pac-12 in the past, wouldn't be suprised if they involved.

Mayer Brown

Mayer Brown is a leading international law firm positioned to represent the world’s major corporations, funds, and financial institutions in their most important and complex transactions and disputes.

www.mayerbrown.com

If Mayer drafted the bylaws, it might not be a great idea to retain them.

 

[Cougsocal]

They have hired "outside council"....i'm sure we will find out soon enough who that firm is.

This firm has represented the Pac-12 in the past, wouldn't be suprised if they involved.

Mayer Brown

Mayer Brown is a leading international law firm positioned to represent the world’s major corporations, funds, and financial institutions in their most important and complex transactions and disputes.

www.mayerbrown.com

Well, I just read a recent interview with Schulz, you are right, outside counsel has been retained. Schulz and Chun have been a huge disappointment thus far, but they have a real chance to prove to us that they actually have a pair and are willing to put on the gloves. We'll see, but merely hiring outside counsel isn't enough -- going down the Seattle boutique "transactions" law firm route, will be just more evidence that they aren't up to the challenge, and are more interest preserving their image in the academic community than going to bat for WSU come hell or high water.

 

[Cougsocal]

Agreed. Also an attorney. Assistant AGs deal with fiscal matters, contracts, and personnel issues at WSU. They are ill equipped to handle a possible anti-trust investigation against the networks or possible fraud by false representation claims against UW/UO. Any lawsuit against UW would need to be conflicted out by the WA AGs office anyways.

Here is the thing, the academic world sees itself as collegial. The unspoken rule is you don't sue one another, you work it out behind closed doors or you grin and bear it. Leach was blackballed, effectively, because he sued TT. Rolo stuck a fork in his coaching career by doing the same. Are Schulz and Chun willing to go down that path, effective ruining future job prospects, for our sake? Somehow, I seriously doubt it. I think they will push a little, get a small concession, then claim victory, well before any serious litigation can begin.

 

[MapleStCoug]

By reading the complaint looks like they got Weil, Gotshal & Manges an 1100 attorney firm out of NYC. Not bad.

 

[dgibbons]

By reading the complaint looks like they got Weil, Gotshal & Manges an 1100 attorney firm out of NYC. Not bad.

And OSU has big dogs from SF.

 

[MapleStCoug]

And OSU has big dogs from SF.

Hopefully they get the judgement and use it to twist the knife. Tomorrow is going to have quite the vibe!

 

[Coug90]

By reading the complaint looks like they got Weil, Gotshal & Manges an 1100 attorney firm out of NYC. Not bad.

Sheeesh that sounds like John Gotti’s legal team. Let’s bust some F’n kneecaps!

 

[ttowncoug]

Here is the thing, the academic world sees itself as collegial. The unspoken rule is you don't sue one another, you work it out behind closed doors or you grin and bear it. Leach was blackballed, effectively, because he sued TT. Rolo stuck a fork in his coaching career by doing the same. Are Schulz and Chun willing to go down that path, effective ruining future job prospects, for our sake? Somehow, I seriously doubt it. I think they will push a little, get a small concession, then claim victory, well before any serious litigation can begin.

Kirk's legacy is at stake and I hope he sees that the other schools stabbed him in the back and doesn't take the "nice guy route." Too much at stake.

Seeing that we go decent outside council to help, I am guessing we aren't going to roll over.

 

[425cougfan]

The hourly rate for the lead Weil partner is likely at or over $2k/hour, so this will be expensive. It's the right way to go.

 

[PeteTheChop]

Are Schulz and Chun willing to go down that path, effective ruining future job prospects, for our sake? Somehow, I seriously doubt it. I think they will push a little, get a small concession, then claim victory, well before any serious litigation can begin.

SoCal, what would be considered a successful result to using such an approach?

Could ESPN and FOX be targeted in addition to the 10 schools that fled?

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Here is the thing, the academic world sees itself as collegial. The unspoken rule is you don't sue one another, you work it out behind closed doors or you grin and bear it. Leach was blackballed, effectively, because he sued TT. Rolo stuck a fork in his coaching career by doing the same. Are Schulz and Chun willing to go down that path, effective ruining future job prospects, for our sake? Somehow, I seriously doubt it. I think they will push a little, get a small concession, then claim victory, well before any serious litigation can begin.

Schulz and Chun aren't suing anyone, the university is. I'm pretty confident they don't make unilateral decisions w/o BoR approval or whatever other executive committee that needs to be involved.

 

[BSpike76]

Here is the thing, the academic world sees itself as collegial. The unspoken rule is you don't sue one another, you work it out behind closed doors or you grin and bear it. Leach was blackballed, effectively, because he sued TT. Rolo stuck a fork in his coaching career by doing the same. Are Schulz and Chun willing to go down that path, effective ruining future job prospects, for our sake? Somehow, I seriously doubt it. I think they will push a little, get a small concession, then claim victory, well before any serious litigation can begin.

If they pull off getting WSU to a good place, they can retire here. That wouldn’t be so bad.

 

[Observer11]

Schulz and Chun aren't suing anyone, the university is. I'm pretty confident they don't make unilateral decisions w/o BoR approval or whatever other executive committee that needs to be involved.

Chun is probably one step removed from the legal wranlings.

This is Schulz' battle.

 

[Cougsocal]

Schulz and Chun aren't suing anyone, the university is. I'm pretty confident they don't make unilateral decisions w/o BoR approval or whatever other executive committee that needs to be involved.

A distinction w/o a difference, with a fig leaf cover!

 

[BSpike76]

Here is the thing, the academic world sees itself as collegial. The unspoken rule is you don't sue one another, you work it out behind closed doors or you grin and bear it. Leach was blackballed, effectively, because he sued TT. Rolo stuck a fork in his coaching career by doing the same. Are Schulz and Chun willing to go down that path, effective ruining future job prospects, for our sake? Somehow, I seriously doubt it. I think they will push a little, get a small concession, then claim victory, well before any serious litigation can begin.

Read the article on ESPN. “9 of can get together and do anything we want“, sounds real collegial to me.
F’em.

 

[Cougsocal]

SoCal, what would be considered a successful result to using such an approach?

Could ESPN and FOX be targeted in addition to the 10 schools that fled?

The only thing that make us whole is power conference membership. Houston, and Rice still out of power conference football, 25+ years after the SWC disbanded. We really don't know what the networks involvement was in all this, yet. But a lawsuit provides discovery and subpoena power, to go find out.

 

[dgibbons]

Schulz and Chun aren't suing anyone, the university is. I'm pretty confident they don't make unilateral decisions w/o BoR approval or whatever other executive committee that needs to be involved.

Schulz and the OSU presidents are plaintiffs, acting in their capacities as university presidents and board members. Obviously, the schools are footing the bills.

 

[dgibbons]

If they pull off getting WSU to a good place, they can retire here. That wouldn’t be so bad.

And unless they're both total imbeciles, they're just fine financially.

 

[mikalalas]

The only thing that make us whole is power conference membership. Houston, and Rice still out of power conference football, 25+ years after the SWC disbanded. We really don't know what the networks involvement was in all this, yet. But a lawsuit provides discovery and subpoena power, to go find out.

Rice yes, Houston joined, in process of Joining Big 12.

But yeah, it could take WSU 7 to 13 to 20 years for WSU to be in a Power conference again.

Best chance for that, is for Clemson, FSU, North Carolina to leave ACC, for the rest of ACC to blow up, and 1,2,3 more to leave ACC, and then for the ACC to then grab WSU, OSU to give Stanford, Cal a western division, to play each other in conference.

 

[425cougfan]

Rice yes, Houston joined, in process of Joining Big 12.

But yeah, it could take WSU 7 to 13 to 20 years for WSU to be in a Power conference again.

Best chance for that, is for Clemson, FSU, North Carolina to leave ACC, for the rest of ACC to blow up, and 1,2,3 more to leave ACC, and then for the ACC to then grab WSU, OSU to give Stanford, Cal a western division, to play each other in conference.

You see any differences between Houston and WSU? Market size and recruiting, maybe? Little difference between a top-5 metro area in the country that's football crazy and a tiny place in the middle of nowhere tucked in the corner of its state. If WSU loses P5 it's never coming back if the landscape is anything like it is now (that is, if "Power 5" has any meaning in whatever we see in the next 10-20 years). Never. That's one reason I've been so firm in all the rants. This is game over for WSU if it loses, as now appears near-certain.

 

[DaleLoon]

If it turns into a battle of wallets and attorneys, I don't like the PAC 2's chances. You're going up against Cal and Stanford now. They may never invest or care about their football teams, but they carry a huge stick in the courtroom. Cal in particular needs every cent possible going forward. For entertainment, I want this to include Judge Judy🤣

 

[mikalalas]

If it turns into a battle of wallets and attorneys, I don't like the PAC 2's chances. You're going up against Cal and Stanford now. They may never invest or care about their football teams, but they carry a huge stick in the courtroom. Cal in particular needs every cent possible going forward. For entertainment, I want this to include Judge Judy🤣

I like the PAC 2's chances(About 49% to 59%), because the LAW, LEGAL WORDING, WORD MEANING, ETC, IS ON THEIR SIDE, because BILL CLINTON is, was WRONG, that IS means IS, and NOT depends what the meaning of IS, is.

The bylaws do NOT state DEPARTURE DATE, and or METHOD of NOTICE, as it just says NOTICE BEFORE 8/1/24.

Therefore that means, legally, that Notice has been given, before 8/1/24, and as such is to be penalized, lose the money, voting rights etc, no matter what lawyers, judges, courts say.

If it said the SKY IS BLUE, then even if the Lawyers, Judges, courts, said, say, the Sky is Red, then while go by that ruling, the legal definition is still the Sky is blue.

If the judge, courts, lawyers, etc, rule against the PAC 2, while go by that, they would still be WRONG, and the RIGHT decision, is to go by that Notice has been given.

Because of the stupidity, CORRUPTION, of the SYSTEM, there is a chance that the Judge, Lawyers, Court could make the WRONG ruling, that notice wasn't given, etc, as COURTS, JUDGES, LAWYERS have given plenty of WRONG rulings in past. And if they wrongly rule that notice has not been given, then have to go by that, but they will still be WRONG.

Words mean what they mean, no matter if a WRONG decision says they mean something else, then what they actually mean.

Yes there is a chance that the lawyers, courts, judge, etc, could cause a ruling against the PAC 2.

But because the words mean that notice has been given, there is a chance that the ruling will, would go in favor of WSU, OSU, PAC 2, despite the FLAWS of the system, or at least a semi favorable settlement to the PAC 2.

But despite that there is a chance that will go against PAC 2, just like there are situations, where murderers walk into public place, kill people, with irrefutable evidence, witnesses that they are guilty, and get let off, found not guilty, due to some technicality.

Since those kind of things can WRONGLY happen, then it's possible that the ruling could go against PAC 2.

Still won't change that notice was given.

And there is a reasonable chance the ruling would go in favor of PAC 2.

 

[Cougsocal]

If it turns into a battle of wallets and attorneys, I don't like the PAC 2's chances. You're going up against Cal and Stanford now. They may never invest or care about their football teams, but they carry a huge stick in the courtroom. Cal in particular needs every cent possible going forward. For entertainment, I want this to include Judge Judy🤣

Except the real question is how hard are they willing to fight? The analogy is a small business fighting for its existence, vs a large company that doesn't need the money and just wants to move on. While the latter might take the attitude, not a penny in tribute, and be willing to fight it out, or they might have the attitude, how do we make this all go away. That is what WSU is banking on.

 

[ttowncoug]

Cal and Stanford are supportive of WSU rebuilding the conference is my read.

As long as everyone gets their fair share of media money this year I suspect all will be fine.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

Frankly, I don't see this as much of a protracted fight as some seem to.

The league language is pretty clear. And the first step in the Colfax filing is the right step. Follow that by firing the current commish. Then start having your own meetings without the other 10. Then hang onto the money unless ordered to distribute it. We should be able to take our 1/12 share, since that is not in dispute. The rest of it may take a while, but given the real imminence of various relevant deadlines, the best the other side can hope for is some sort of settlement that does not leave the two of us with everything. They will only drag it out as long as they have to in order to get what they perceive to be their best settlement.

 

[dgibbons]

If it turns into a battle of wallets and attorneys, I don't like the PAC 2's chances. You're going up against Cal and Stanford now. They may never invest or care about their football teams, but they carry a huge stick in the courtroom. Cal in particular needs every cent possible going forward. For entertainment, I want this to include Judge Judy🤣

We got home field advantage.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Frankly, I don't see this as much of a protracted fight as some seem to.

The league language is pretty clear. And the first step in the Colfax filing is the right step. Follow that by firing the current commish. Then start having your own meetings without the other 10. Then hang onto the money unless ordered to distribute it. We should be able to take our 1/12 share, since that is not in dispute. The rest of it may take a while, but given the real imminence of various relevant deadlines, the best the other side can hope for is some sort of settlement that does not leave the two of us with everything. They will only drag it out as long as they have to in order to get what they perceive to be their best settlement.

I like everything you say. Question is, how do "we" hang on to the money? Who actually has the checkbook? George Quackkoff?

 

[BSpike76]

I like everything you say. Question is, how do "we" hang on to the money? Who actually has the checkbook? George Quackkoff?

Being a one time farmer, I say take the patronage dividend approach. We will pay you the money sometime, but we need the money for current operations.

 

[ATACFD]

As a non-attorney, my advice is to follow Shakespeare's writings.

Yes! He's got plenty of quotes that would fit. Like:

"Cry 'Havoc' and let loose the dogs of war" (Julius Caesar)

"Oft have I heard that grief softens the mind,
And makes it tearful and degenerate;
Focus therefore on revenge and cease to weep" (Henry VI)

I'm glad that WSU aren't just weeping in the corner any more. This is a move that shows we mean business!

 

[HHusky]

Not seeing how you need to spend thousands of dollars per hour to have a fight over what the bylaws do or do not say. There are a whole lot of PNW firms perfectly up to the task.

 

[fingerdisco]

Not seeing how you need to spend thousands of dollars per hour to have a fight over what the bylaws do or do not say. There are a whole lot of PNW firms perfectly up to the task.

you think saving a few hundred bucks/hour is worth it given the ramifications of what's at stake?

 

[dgibbons]

Not seeing how you need to spend thousands of dollars per hour to have a fight over what the bylaws do or do not say. There are a whole lot of PNW firms perfectly up to the task.

uw can hire them. Enjoy. I can make a referral.

 

[kougkurt]

Not seeing how you need to spend thousands of dollars per hour to have a fight over what the bylaws do or do not say. There are a whole lot of PNW firms perfectly up to the task.

True, but it’s more about the appearance moving forward