CFP Rankings: voters say 'meh' to WSU-Arizona beatdown

[chipdouglas]

All 3 rankings are out as of Tuesday:

• AP: WSU #7 (+1 spot)
• Coaches: WSU #7 (+2 spots)
• CFP: WSU #8 (flat)

I always thought the Coaches' Poll was the most asinine of the 3, but CFP has rapidly emerged as the early-years-Bleacher-Report of rankings clearinghouses. Here's what they have:

1. Alabama: fine
2. Clemson: fine
3. Notre Dame: fine
4. Michigan: I think UGA is better, but I'm fine as UGA had a bad loss and UM doesn't
5. Georgia: fine, perhaps, but my other alma mater was also stomped @LSU
6. Oklahoma: struggled at home vs 3-8 KU before besting them. KU hung 40 in Norman
7. LSU: the only 2 loss team in Top 10, including the worst loss of any Top 10 team combined. ZERO excuse for them to be anywhere in the Top 9
8. WSU: the most decisive victory in all of the Top 10; sadly, 55 first half points were not enough to turn heads outside the Pacific Time Zone. What excuse is there for this kind of oversight in 2018?
9. UCF: not a single signature win, but I guess you have to tip the cap at being undefeated
10. Ohio State: truly unbelievable to see the spectacle in College Park in which the Terps snatched defeat from the jaws of victory by blowing their winnings on a 2pt conversion. Even more unbelievable that another close call did nothing to move voters off of Aaron Hernandez's mentor's new crop of criminals

The most appalling thing I've read from the CFP committee was this (ESPN):

Mullens was asked why the Cougars didn't make up any ground, despite crushing Arizona 69-28. The Sooners, on the other hand, had a tougher-than-expected time with Kansas in a 55-40 win.

"We spent considerable time talking about 6, 7, 8," Mullens told ESPN. "Obviously saw what Washington State did, putting up 55 points in the first half against Arizona. But again, looked at Oklahoma and that dynamic offense, and while their defense may still be struggling, their offense is carrying the day and still finding a way to win with their quarterback [Kyler Murray] being so dynamic."

Ex-cuse me? You're saying that, when WSU answered the doubters' calls by taking a possible bowl team to the woodshed, scoring 55 points in the first half (!) and wreaking abject havoc on defense, your instinct is to defer to this other team putting up fewer points at home against a worse opponent, and struggling more on defense? And you're pointing to that as the "dynamic" thing that forced your hand? WHAT?

Mullen moves on, apparently pleased with his insane counterargument.

Looking at the list of voters, it's a mix of ADs, journalists and former players. Just as the Coaches' Poll rankings get delegated to the night janitor, it's becoming clear that the median football savvy and attentiveness of this group rivals a 10-year-old boy. Besides a few posters on their bedroom walls, some know the game inside and out (players) but clearly don't watch it widely, and others (ADs) don't know if a cornerback is the one who throws the football or the one who tries to stop that from happening. Journalists are presumably somewhere in between. Nevertheless, clearly a lot of voting energy is going into voting for the teams you've heard of. They are collectively the 44-year-old admin lady in your office who knows nothing about college hoops but fills out a bracket - only she's the one deciding who lives and dies.

Looking ahead, Alabama can do nothing between now and the end of the season to jeopardize its CFP chances. Clemson, ND and Michigan have no real challenges between now and then. UGA may drop the SECCG to Alabama - we're all in trouble if they don't. OU has WVU which should be good. But in my view, Michigan, UGA, LSU, OU and WSU all jockey for the same spot, and if they all win out through conference championships and the rankings hold, justice will not be served.

As always, I'm banning "just win out" as commentary here as it's neither interesting nor thoughtful, plus we're all a bunch of jagoff fans just talking here anyway.

 

[Cougatron]

The LSU is just SEC bias.

I think we can play any of the teams tough and win, and yes that includes Alabama.

Chaos will ensue next week as Oklahoma may get beat by West Virginia. Oklahoma has a lot of trouble with Oklahoma State and their defense is horrible. I think West Virginia strikes them down.

Georgia has to play Bama and Bama has to play Auburn so someone is also getting a loss in the SEC.

It won’t suprise me of Ohio State beats Michigan. Harbaugh has struggled against Meyer.

Notre Dame lucked out with an injured Syracuse. Do they beat SC at home? Probably because Helton is T r a s h.

Overall I think we will move up and the 1 loss campaign spot will be ridiculous with us being placed 5th or something.

If Clemson, Bama, And Notre Dame all finish undefeated and so does UCF. They should just throw UCF a bone so they shut up and make it a battle of the unbeatens. Let Bama or whoever kick the crap out of them as a warmup and then they can shut up about not losing a game and all that.

Putting all the unbeatens in the Playoff is exactly what the playoff is for. To solve the champion among those who all have a claim.

If that happens I am fine being one (of the many) one loss teams that miss the playoffs (although Larry and Woodie screwed us and the conference with their bs)

We’ll go to the Rose Bowl and get to play the fightin’ Harbaughs or Sleazy Urbans with Turn coat Grinch.

 

[chipdouglas]

The LSU is just SEC bias.

I think we can play any of the teams tough and win, and yes that includes Alabama.

Chaos will ensue next week as Oklahoma may get beat by West Virginia. Oklahoma has a lot of trouble with Oklahoma State and their defense is horrible. I think West Virginia strikes them down.

Georgia has to play Bama and Bama has to play Auburn so someone is also getting a loss in the SEC.

It won’t suprise me of Ohio State beats Michigan. Harbaugh has struggled against Meyer.

Notre Dame lucked out with an injured Syracuse. Do they beat SC at home? Probably because Helton is T r a s h.

Overall I think we will move up and the 1 loss campaign spot will be ridiculous with us being placed 5th or something.

If Clemson, Bama, And Notre Dame all finish undefeated and so does UCF. They should just throw UCF a bone so they shut up and make it a battle of the unbeatens. Let Bama or whoever kick the crap out of them as a warmup and then they can shut up about not losing a game and all that.

Putting all the unbeatens in the Playoff is exactly what the playoff is for. To solve the champion among those who all have a claim.

If that happens I am fine being one (of the many) one loss teams that miss the playoffs (although Larry and Woodie screwed us and the conference with their bs)

We’ll go to the Rose Bowl and get to play the fightin’ Harbaughs or Sleazy Urbans with Turn coat Grinch.

I don't think the Top 4 changes between now and the playoffs. 2-4 will be favored in every remaining game, and Alabama will remain in the Top 4 with 1 loss (as they should). The opportunity is if Georgia, Oklahoma and LSU take another L at Alabama, WVU or A&M, respectively. At that point we move up a spot or two. Then the hope is that we win out the rest of the season, at which point we have a decent chance of finishing in the Top 4 even if we miss the playoffs. Would be a huge recruiting tool. Unfortunately CFP voters are treating us like UCF and asking us to do far more than other teams for the same ranking.

 

[Black Bart the Pirate]

I still think LSU is ranked high to give Alabama a “ranked win” in case Alabama loses a game. Yes, I think it is a conspiracy, especially after last year.

More recently I think about the press IF the cougs win out the rest of the season but don’t make the final four because of their one loss. You can bet the national press will be all over the missed targeting call at the end of the game, as well as the “overruled” targeting call earlier in the game, and Larry Scott stupid press statements trying to cover up.

Larry Scott must be having nightmares about this PAC12 public relations nightmare possibility, and I have to wonder if the PAC12 reps on committee aren’t lobbying as hard for WSU as a result. This is just speculation on my part, but I can think of no other reason why both OK and LSU are still ranked ahead of WSU

 

[wazzubruce]

LSU being ranked ahead of WSU is a CRIME !! & BS !!

 

[acgcoug]

LSU is a tough one to rank due to their SOS. They have played 6 teams that were ranked when they played, and they are 4-2 in those games with the losses being #1 Bama, and #22 Florida (now #11). They beat #2 Georgia (now #5), #7 Auburn (unranked now), #22 Miss St. (now #18), #6 Miami (unranked now). So based on current rankings they are 1-1 vs top 5 teams, and 1-1 vs top 11-18 teams.

They also still have #22 A&M on their schedule, and A&M is favored to win that game. A&M wins and LSU is out of the picture.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

LSU is a tough one to rank due to their SOS. They have played 6 teams that were ranked when they played, and they are 4-2 in those games with the losses being #1 Bama, and #22 Florida (now #11). They beat #2 Georgia (now #5), #7 Auburn (unranked now), #22 Miss St. (now #18), #6 Miami (unranked now). So based on current rankings they are 1-1 vs top 5 teams, and 1-1 vs top 11-18 teams.

They also still have #22 A&M on their schedule, and A&M is favored to win that game. A&M wins and LSU is out of the picture.

Look, they're ranked high now because they were ranked high at the beginning of the year and its a giant circle jerk to keep the elite teams at the top of the polls with the least amount of work necessary. A lot of this would go away if they stopped with the week 1 poll bs and didn't put one out until week 8.

 

[acgcoug]

Look, they're ranked high now because they were ranked high at the beginning of the year and its a giant circle jerk to keep the elite teams at the top of the polls with the least amount of work necessary. A lot of this would go away if they stopped with the week 1 poll bs and didn't put one out until week 8.

They were #25 to start the year. Beating #7 and #8 in their 1st and 3rd game of the season shot them up the rankings. Losing to #22, then beating #2 Georgia soon after was a wash.

I'm not completely sold on LSU either, but they do have a tough schedule and a pretty good resume.

Again, A&M is predicted to beat them this weekend so hopefully that happens. They are done for if that happens.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

They were #25 to start the year. Beating #7 and #8 in their 1st and 3rd game of the season shot them up the rankings. Losing to #22, then beating #2 Georgia soon after was a wash.

I'm not completely sold on LSU either, but they do have a tough schedule and a pretty good resume.

Again, A&M is predicted to beat them this weekend so hopefully that happens. They are done for if that happens.

My statement was more about the polls in general. Teams ranked higher to start tend to stay high and in the polls despite losses, and early season ranking only serve to help teams out who are ranked high early and lose early.

 

[chipdouglas]

LSU is a tough one to rank due to their SOS. They have played 6 teams that were ranked when they played, and they are 4-2 in those games with the losses being #1 Bama, and #22 Florida (now #11). They beat #2 Georgia (now #5), #7 Auburn (unranked now), #22 Miss St. (now #18), #6 Miami (unranked now). So based on current rankings they are 1-1 vs top 5 teams, and 1-1 vs top 11-18 teams.

They also still have #22 A&M on their schedule, and A&M is favored to win that game. A&M wins and LSU is out of the picture.

The SoS argument works up to a point, but you have to take care of business. That means winning games, whether you're eking them out vs great teams or whipping not-so-great teams.

UCF has the #95 schedule (Sagarin) but cracked the Top 10 by staying undefeated; ie taking care of business. Dropping 2 of your first 9 games - including a whipping at home - is not taking care of business.

 

[Fab5Coug]

LSU has a "marquee" win over UGA. We can't compete with that. What are their next best 3 wins though? Miss St, Auburn & Miami? That's no better, IMO, than our wins over Utah, Stanford and Cal/Oregon.

Their losses are better, I guess, but I don't think they get a ton of credit for getting their asses kicked by Bama. I mean, we could've lost to Bama 29-0.

So, yea, I can see how their resume is better, just because they have that UGA win and both of their losses are "better" than our loss.

 

[Fab5Coug]

Some SEC fan on twitter was trying to claim WSU wouldn't win 5 games against LSU's schedule, apparently not realizing 5 of LSU's wins are against SE Louisiana, La Tech, Rice, Arkansas & Ole Miss. This is what SEC fans do. Since they play a couple really tough games per year, they think their entire schedule a gauntlet.

 

[chipdouglas]

LSU has a "marquee" win over UGA. We can't compete with that. What are their next best 3 wins though? Miss St, Auburn & Miami? That's no better, IMO, than our wins over Utah, Stanford and Cal/Oregon.

Their losses are better, I guess, but I don't think they get a ton of credit for getting their asses kicked by Bama. I mean, we could've lost to Bama 29-0.

So, yea, I can see how their resume is better, just because they have that UGA win and both of their losses are "better" than our loss.

Being gutted like a fish and shut out in front of your home crowd is not a “better” loss. Nor is an 8pt loss to a bad Florida team “better” than a 3pt road loss amidst an actual officiating scandal.

You can say their highs are higher, but their lows are DEFINITELY lower, and they have more lows than we do.

 

[Fab5Coug]

Being gutted like a fish and shut out in front of your home crowd is not a “better” loss. Nor is an 8pt loss to a bad Florida team “better” than a 3pt road loss amidst an actual officiating scandal.

You can say their highs are higher, but their lows are DEFINITELY lower, and they have more lows than we do.

Come on Chip, there's no way a loss at 5-6 (soon to be 5-7) USC is "better" than a loss at 8-3, currently ranked Fla.

 

[95coug]

I hate the argument that "they were ranked when we played them." That's meaningless, since the preseason rankings are based on practically nothing. If it matters that Auburn was ranked when LSU beat them, should it not also matter that Florida was only #22 when they beat #5 LSU?

Sure, Auburn was #7 when LSU beat them. Guess what? Auburn is 7-4. They didn't deserve to be #7. The week before, LSU beat Miami when they were #8. Miami is now 6-5, and nowhere near being ranked.

Who are LSU's other wins, and how are those teams doing?
Southeast Louisiana - 4-7 in FCS
Louisiana Tech - 7-4 in C-USA
Ole Miss - 5-6
Georgia - 10-1, #5
Mississippi State - 7-4
Arkansas - 2-9
Rice - 1-11 in C-USA

So overall, their opponents are 49-51. Three wins against teams that will finish sub-.500. Other than Georgia, none of their wins are even mildly impressive, they're just getting benefit from beating a couple teams that were expected to be good and turned out mediocre.

Granted, we don't have the "marquee win." But I'd argue that their schedule, the way things have played out, is not significantly tougher than ours.

 

[Fab5Coug]

I hate the argument that "they were ranked when we played them." That's meaningless, since the preseason rankings are based on practically nothing. If it matters that Auburn was ranked when LSU beat them, should it not also matter that Florida was only #22 when they beat #5 LSU?

Sure, Auburn was #7 when LSU beat them. Guess what? Auburn is 7-4. They didn't deserve to be #7. The week before, LSU beat Miami when they were #8. Miami is now 6-5, and nowhere near being ranked.

Who are LSU's other wins, and how are those teams doing?
Southeast Louisiana - 4-7 in FCS
Louisiana Tech - 7-4 in C-USA
Ole Miss - 5-6
Georgia - 10-1, #5
Mississippi State - 7-4
Arkansas - 2-9
Rice - 1-11 in C-USA

So overall, their opponents are 49-51. Three wins against teams that will finish sub-.500. Other than Georgia, none of their wins are even mildly impressive, they're just getting benefit from beating a couple teams that were expected to be good and turned out mediocre.

Granted, we don't have the "marquee win." But I'd argue that their schedule, the way things have played out, is not significantly tougher than ours.

I will say, Auburn and Miss St, and probably even Miami are still "good" wins. Those 3 are probably about comparable to our Utah, Stanford & Oregon or Cal wins.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

I will say, Auburn and Miss St, and probably even Miami are still "good" wins. Those 3 are probably about comparable to our Utah, Stanford & Oregon or Cal wins.

You are correct.

Except you are wrong because the P12 is garbage from #3-12, whereas the SEC/ACC/B11 are quality top to bottom.

 

[chipdouglas]

Come on Chip, there's no way a loss at 5-6 (soon to be 5-7) USC is "better" than a loss at 8-3, currently ranked Fla.

If that were all the information we had, you would be right. But you deliberately omitted information, such as:

• We have 1 loss, they have 2
• Our only loss was by a FG on the road to a half decent team amid an officiating scandal which very likely affected the final score, if not the winner
• 1 loss was by 8 (more than ours) to a 3-loss UF team which has eaten a handful of humiliating losses (Kentucky, Missouri at home!) and whose current ranking is HUGELY inflated (half the teams below them in the Top 25 would roll them)
• Another loss was a total black eye for the program. It will be the pre-game story for that series each year for the next decade. FFS, as an LSU fan, how does one walk away from being held SCORELESS in front of your own fans and feel like your program acquitted itself in a remotely respectable way?

Yes, if it’s “losing to #11 vs losing to unranked” and that’s all, point taken. But we both know it’s everything above as well.

 

[Glad Cougar]

If that were all the information we had, you would be right. But you deliberately omitted information, such as:

• We have 1 loss, they have 2
• Our only loss was by a FG on the road to a half decent team amid an officiating scandal which very likely affected the final score, if not the winner
• 1 loss was by 8 (more than ours) to a 3-loss UF team which has eaten a handful of humiliating losses (Kentucky, Missouri at home!) and whose current ranking is HUGELY inflated (half the teams below them in the Top 25 would roll them)
• Another loss was a total black eye for the program. It will be the pre-game story for that series each year for the next decade. FFS, as an LSU fan, how does one walk away from being held SCORELESS in front of your own fans and feel like your program acquitted itself in a remotely respectable way?

Yes, if it’s “losing to #11 vs losing to unranked” and that’s all, point taken. But we both know it’s everything above as well.

Losing to Alabama, even by a score of 29-0, is a total black eye for the program? You make it sound like LSU got beat by Portland State or something. I'd like to think the Cougars should be ranked ahead of LSU but I'm not all the upset we aren't. Now if we win the AC, I'll expect to move past them. But at this point in the season, it really isn't that big of a deal.

Glad Cougar

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Losing to Alabama, even by a score of 29-0, is a total black eye for the program? You make it sound like LSU got beat by Portland State or something. I'd like to think the Cougars should be ranked ahead of LSU but I'm not all the upset we aren't. Now if we win the AC, I'll expect to move past them. But at this point in the season, it really isn't that big of a deal.

Glad Cougar

Why don't you ask LSU fans how they feel about that loss and whether or not they think it's worse than their other losses. I can take a pretty good guess what their answer would be.

 

[Glad Cougar]

If the Cougs win the Apple Cup and remain behind LSU, I'll feel the outrage. Right now, being ranked a spot behind them doesn't bother me. But that's me.

We need another quality win to make up for our weak OOC schedule this year. A win over the Huskies will certainly vault us past LSU & Oklahoma, IMO.

Glad Cougar

 

[kougkurt]

Losing to Alabama, even by a score of 29-0, is a total black eye for the program? You make it sound like LSU got beat by Portland State or something. I'd like to think the Cougars should be ranked ahead of LSU but I'm not all the upset we aren't. Now if we win the AC, I'll expect to move past them. But at this point in the season, it really isn't that big of a deal.

Glad Cougar

It is kinda a big deal because it’s one more team we have to jump at a later date. Instead of already being voted ahead of them. We are only going to get rewarded so many spots.

 

[Fab5Coug]

If that were all the information we had, you would be right. But you deliberately omitted information, such as:

• We have 1 loss, they have 2
• Our only loss was by a FG on the road to a half decent team amid an officiating scandal which very likely affected the final score, if not the winner
• 1 loss was by 8 (more than ours) to a 3-loss UF team which has eaten a handful of humiliating losses (Kentucky, Missouri at home!) and whose current ranking is HUGELY inflated (half the teams below them in the Top 25 would roll them)
• Another loss was a total black eye for the program. It will be the pre-game story for that series each year for the next decade. FFS, as an LSU fan, how does one walk away from being held SCORELESS in front of your own fans and feel like your program acquitted itself in a remotely respectable way?

Yes, if it’s “losing to #11 vs losing to unranked” and that’s all, point taken. But we both know it’s everything above as well.

I'm not arguing their overall resume. I'm saying you really can't call a loss to USC, even by 3 and even on a bad call, equal to a loss to Florida.

Even if you think Florida is overrated, which I would agree, they are quite a bit better than USC.

 

[mikalalas]

A 2 Loss NON conference champ LSU WILL NOT make the #3, #4 playoff spots over ANY 1, ONE LOSS CONFERENCE CHAMP, EVEN WSU PERIOD, FACT

 

[chipdouglas]

I'm not arguing their overall resume. I'm saying you really can't call a loss to USC, even by 3 and even on a bad call, equal to a loss to Florida.

Even if you think Florida is overrated, which I would agree, they are quite a bit better than USC.

I can 100% say a road loss which - arbitrated fairly - may not have been a loss at all, is better than a 1-2 score loss to a team with a trio of ugly losses. As my other alma mater’s archrival, I follow UF closely and this is not a quasi Top 10 team. They have failed almost every test given them this year outside of LSU, which makes LSU’s loss even uglier.

Also, why so focused on Florida specifically? Why not the horrific 2nd loss, or the fact that they’ve lost 2 games and both are worse than our one?

 

[chipdouglas]

Losing to Alabama, even by a score of 29-0, is a total black eye for the program? You make it sound like LSU got beat by Portland State or something. I'd like to think the Cougars should be ranked ahead of LSU but I'm not all the upset we aren't. Now if we win the AC, I'll expect to move past them. But at this point in the season, it really isn't that big of a deal.

Glad Cougar

I think it’s fair to say that giving up 4+ TDS and 600 yards of offense while failing to score a single point or even racking up 200 yards of total offense - especially when you’re home at your supposedly legendary “Death Valley” stadium and ranked #3 - is a black eye.

The rest is like I said above: yeah, win out, blah blah blah. But everyone winning out could still keep us out of the playoffs artificially as a result of voters. And again, we’re all a bunch of jagoff fans just talking here anyway.

 

[Fab5Coug]

I can 100% say a road loss which - arbitrated fairly - may not have been a loss at all, is better than a 1-2 score loss to a team with a trio of ugly losses. As my other alma mater’s archrival, I follow UF closely and this is not a quasi Top 10 team. They have failed almost every test given them this year outside of LSU, which makes LSU’s loss even uglier.

Also, why so focused on Florida specifically? Why not the horrific 2nd loss, or the fact that they’ve lost 2 games and both are worse than our one?

Because that's not the part of your post I took exception to.

Florida may be overrated, but USC is just flat out not good.