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Concerns about UW recruiting

UWs recruiting has frankly been bad considering the education, and on field development they offer. No one has been better defensively at development out west and they can’t recruit those positions at a high level. Offensively is more understandable regarding WRs because their offense is fairly boring, but not being able to attract 4-5* running backs consistently is something else. Same with tight ends. They keep cranking them into the league and can’t sell it to the elite recruits.
 
Any sort of sales effort requires a strategy that recognizes one's assets while finding a way to answer questions about the liabilities. It is clear at this point that Lake needs a recruiting coordinator who understands this, because Jimmy clearly is out of his depth in this area. The idea that UW can't recruit the west coast to get guys that fit their scheme is laughable. On the other hand, the idea that Lake's staff doesn't know how to do it is likely. Lake's ego has always been a question in terms of his ability to be a successful HC. Can he recognize his failures & short comings? And recruit staff to offset his weaknesses (which would first require Jimmy to recognize that he has weaknesses)? We'll find out, because if he leaves the staff as-is, the recruiting results will continue to be the same. SC and Oregon will eat UW's recruiting lunch. As Wellington said after Waterloo..."They came on in the same old way and we defeated them in the same old way." As weak as both SC and Oregon are, they are beating UW in recruiting far more soundly than UW should be permitting. Maybe, from a WSU standpoint, that is good. But I find incompetence to be annoying where ever I see it, and the failure to live up to reasonable recruiting potential at Montlake is amazing.
 
I thought Lake might take UW's recruiting up a notch, even if he would be a weaker head coach than Petersen. Interesting to see that not panning out thus far. I think it's too early to count out UW on the recruiting front, though. Losing some top in-state players to true heavyweights like Ohio State is going to happen. I'm more concerned as a WSU fan with UW locking up just about anyone it wants to other than those who get away to the Ohio States and Alabamas of the world, while beating out Oregon, SC, Michigan, Texas, etc. So much of recruiting is selling a program "getting players to the NFL," even though 95% of the time that has a lot more to do with the player's genes and talent coming in than anything about the school that the player wouldn't have gotten at any P5 program that gave the player an opportunity. UW has a record to sell there, though.
 
I thought Lake might take UW's recruiting up a notch, even if he would be a weaker head coach than Petersen. Interesting to see that not panning out thus far. I think it's too early to count out UW on the recruiting front, though. Losing some top in-state players to true heavyweights like Ohio State is going to happen. I'm more concerned as a WSU fan with UW locking up just about anyone it wants to other than those who get away to the Ohio States and Alabamas of the world, while beating out Oregon, SC, Michigan, Texas, etc. So much of recruiting is selling a program "getting players to the NFL," even though 95% of the time that has a lot more to do with the player's genes and talent coming in than anything about the school that the player wouldn't have gotten at any P5 program that gave the player an opportunity. UW has a record to sell there, though.

When you take your top sales guy out of the field and move him into management, don’t be surprised when revenue suffers.
 
I remember the last time the uw had a big time in state qb sign.... the coach went around saying they were gonna go to a couple rose bowls... he ended up doing a whole lot of jack crap in college and even less in the pros...

Anyone else feel like this is about to happen again???
 
Interesting considering I thought this would be the one thing Lake would be good at as a HC. If they aren’t getting top tier prospects in the door, it’s going to go downhill quick.
 
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<yawn> UW's overall rank is lower this year due to small class size at this point. Avg per player pretty consistent with recent years. Of course the whole premise of the article is based on the opinion of this guy who just happens to be a cougar. Seems totally valid - "Follman is also a screenwriter and horror/suspense author whose stories have been read by millions online. He is currently a working screenwriter with multiple Film and TV projects in development. The film, Snorkeling, based on Jack’s short story and script, produced by Automatik (Sinister) and Three Six Zero (Vox Lux), and directed by acclaimed music video director Emil Nava, is slated for release soon."
 
<yawn> UW's overall rank is lower this year due to small class size at this point. Avg per player pretty consistent with recent years. Of course the whole premise of the article is based on the opinion of this guy who just happens to be a cougar. Seems totally valid - "Follman is also a screenwriter and horror/suspense author whose stories have been read by millions online. He is currently a working screenwriter with multiple Film and TV projects in development. The film, Snorkeling, based on Jack’s short story and script, produced by Automatik (Sinister) and Three Six Zero (Vox Lux), and directed by acclaimed music video director Emil Nava, is slated for release soon."
They aren’t though. I look at the other offers a recruit receives. In the past, UW’s recruits had offers from most of the pac 12 and a handful of other power 5 schools. Now, in many cases, an athletes other offers are Reno and UNLV. Though the overall ranking may still be a high 3 star
 
In the past, UW’s recruits had offers from most of the pac 12 and a handful of other power 5 schools. Now, in many cases, an athletes other offers are Reno and UNLV.

Ha, completely false. I think we've found our horror screenwriter/recruiting analyst.
 
Talk to any fan that doesn’t immediately get defensive about recruiting from UW and you’ll understand they are very disappointed. The class isn’t bad by any standards and is “good” by most standards, but is a failure for the position UW holds and results the staff puts of the field. I don’t know why that is hard to admit. UW should recruit in the top 10-15 range with talent around here and results they put on the field. No west coast DB, DL,RB, or TE should go anywhere else based on development.
 
Talk to any fan that doesn’t immediately get defensive about recruiting from UW and you’ll understand they are very disappointed. The class isn’t bad by any standards and is “good” by most standards, but is a failure for the position UW holds and results the staff puts of the field. I don’t know why that is hard to admit. UW should recruit in the top 10-15 range with talent around here and results they put on the field. No west coast DB, DL,RB, or TE should go anywhere else based on development.

There are 3 PAC 12 programs that spend the money to land 4 and 5 star recruits.... The uw is watching the instate talent they usually keep leave for Ohio State and SC... In defense of Lake, which I hate to do, he has yet to really put a team on the field enough for kids to see... same as Rolo.... what Lake does have is a brand, history and tons of money behind him... With all those things and being 1 of 3 programs on the West Coast that really wants to spend the money needed to land high end kids... the uw should easily be top 20 in recruiting every year.

Oregon is probably eating Lake's lunch right now... They spend as much or more money, they have a coach that learned from the best, they are that much closer to home for a lot of SoCal kids, Nike U... etc....

Right now it is probably easy to sell kids on not being in the dumpster fire that is Seattle.
 
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<yawn> UW's overall rank is lower this year due to small class size at this point. Avg per player pretty consistent with recent years. Of course the whole premise of the article is based on the opinion of this guy who just happens to be a cougar. Seems totally valid - "Follman is also a screenwriter and horror/suspense author whose stories have been read by millions online. He is currently a working screenwriter with multiple Film and TV projects in development. The film, Snorkeling, based on Jack’s short story and script, produced by Automatik (Sinister) and Three Six Zero (Vox Lux), and directed by acclaimed music video director Emil Nava, is slated for release soon."

LOL what? Jack Follman is a UW fanboy - he always has been.
 
There are 3 PAC 12 programs that spend the money to land 4 and 5 star recruits.... The uw is watching the instate talent they usually keep leave for Ohio State and SC... In defense of Lake, which I hate to do, he has yet to really put a team on the field enough for kids to see... same as Rolo.... what Lake does have is a brand, history and tons of money behind him... With all those things and being 1 of 3 programs on the West Coast that really wants to spend the money needed to land high end kids... the uw should easily be top 20 in recruiting every year.

Oregon is probably eating Lake's lunch right now... They spend as much or more money, they have a coach that learned from the best, they are that much closer to home for a lot of SoCal kids, Nike U... etc....

Right now it is probably easy to sell kids on not being in the dumpster fire that is Seattle.
I’m not sure why there’s some rule that UW SHOULD be in the top 20 in recruiting. Certainly they’ve been there when they’ve had coaches that can recruit and/or pay well. With the emergence of Oregon they’ve slid down a notch on the PAC 12 hierarchy, and the Pac-12 itself isn’t nearly the conference power it was 20-30 years ago. The best in-state players are often going elsewhere and some of the best talent from Cali is heading to the SEC, ACC, etc.
I’d say where things stand today, UW should be getting talent in the 30-35 range all things considered. When you factor talent pool locally, school prestige, conference prestige, etc. I just don’t see them as a perennial top 20 program. Again, 30 years ago was a different story. If you think they are today I think you are giving them (and the conference itself) too much credit. Peterson had them higher because he was an exceptional coach and recruiter.
 
I’m not sure why there’s some rule that UW SHOULD be in the top 20 in recruiting. Certainly they’ve been there when they’ve had coaches that can recruit and/or pay well. With the emergence of Oregon they’ve slid down a notch on the PAC 12 hierarchy, and the Pac-12 itself isn’t nearly the conference power it was 20-30 years ago. The best in-state players are often going elsewhere and some of the best talent from Cali is heading to the SEC, ACC, etc.
I’d say where things stand today, UW should be getting talent in the 30-35 range all things considered. When you factor talent pool locally, school prestige, conference prestige, etc. I just don’t see them as a perennial top 20 program. Again, 30 years ago was a different story. If you think they are today I think you are giving them (and the conference itself) too much credit. Peterson had them higher because he was an exceptional coach and recruiter.

West Coast talent is leaving because the PAC 12 as a whole doesnt spend money. Even the teams that do spend cant back it up with wins. Im not surprised at all that the conference is down. It probably gets out of it what it puts into it.

The uw is prob top 30 in spending... not surprised that’s where they are because that’s what they spend to be.
 
I’m not sure why there’s some rule that UW SHOULD be in the top 20 in recruiting. Certainly they’ve been there when they’ve had coaches that can recruit and/or pay well. With the emergence of Oregon they’ve slid down a notch on the PAC 12 hierarchy, and the Pac-12 itself isn’t nearly the conference power it was 20-30 years ago. The best in-state players are often going elsewhere and some of the best talent from Cali is heading to the SEC, ACC, etc.
I’d say where things stand today, UW should be getting talent in the 30-35 range all things considered. When you factor talent pool locally, school prestige, conference prestige, etc. I just don’t see them as a perennial top 20 program. Again, 30 years ago was a different story. If you think they are today I think you are giving them (and the conference itself) too much credit. Peterson had them higher because he was an exceptional coach and recruiter.
I disagree. I mean what do players look for? Ability to be put in the league. UW is doing it, and doing it with lower rated guys at a good rate. Education - top ten public supposedly. Location- while not my cup of tea now, it is a nice looking regional area and a fun campus if your 18-20’s. Talent is good in the area, and California is easy to pull from. To me there is no reason UW should not be top 15 year in and year out. I’m not saying I want them to be or they will ever be again, but for them to shoot for and achieve less is a failure.
 
I disagree. I mean what do players look for? Ability to be put in the league. UW is doing it, and doing it with lower rated guys at a good rate. Education - top ten public supposedly. Location- while not my cup of tea now, it is a nice looking regional area and a fun campus if your 18-20’s. Talent is good in the area, and California is easy to pull from. To me there is no reason UW should not be top 15 year in and year out. I’m not saying I want them to be or they will ever be again, but for them to shoot for and achieve less is a failure.

I agree with your general sentiment, and note that Seattle increasingly is viewed as a major city and a place kids would want to go. I think Top 15 overstates the case a little, though. I'll pull out my old favorite, the map of the U.S. at night:

tTTH6RcL7eV_uJcgEIcnlnHuQNx57Ds8sj6BsIr_2ytSLcdVeIlK6hKTeLPyGZHQjkhF5DfhFSkvWFvSv5fSPz8ohjAKjn-2bNyjfNnXcy1mB_NKzYlJYEA


There are a shitload more lights in Texas and east of there, and more people there actually care about football and devote resources to it, too. UW is that tiny blip way up by Canada.

Even in the Pac-12, UW shouldn't consistently outrecruit USC and UCLA, at minimum. Stanford and Cal present unusual situations, especially the former, where they won't rank that high nationally, but if there is a 5-star recruit like Davis Mills (or whoever), he's almost always not choosing UW over Stanford as long as Stanford isn't a complete joke at football. Oregon has a ton of money and is cleaning up on UW now -- it's not even close -- with that likely to continue as long as the money and facilities hold up, even if Seattle and UW are better than Eugene and U of O, respectively. So UW will lose out to at least three, maybe four schools in its own conference pretty routinely. Maybe more if ASU is up and recruiting well.

And that's just the Pac-12. Referring again to the image above, most of the talent and most of the money is near all those other lights. UW will pull its fair share from California, but it's not going to outrecruit most of the SEC heavyweights. For upper midwest and midwest kids, it will have a hard time outrecruiting Ohio State (especially) and Michigan, Penn State, even Wisconsin. It's not going to pull Texas kids from A&M, UT, or Oklahoma. There are other schools that UW would lose out to, but I don't want this to be a novel. Basically, there are at least three, if not more, schools in the other Power 5 conferences that UW can't beat out, and the other P5 conferences increasingly are going in and taking what they want out of California.

Basically, I get what you're saying and I think UW should be *capable* of top-15 classes here and there, but as far as where it belongs, it's more like 20th or the low 20s on a routine basis IMO. Pretty fine distinction and I agree with your take on what their goal should be, and it's within the realm of argument either way.
 
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I disagree. I mean what do players look for? Ability to be put in the league. UW is doing it, and doing it with lower rated guys at a good rate. Education - top ten public supposedly. Location- while not my cup of tea now, it is a nice looking regional area and a fun campus if your 18-20’s. Talent is good in the area, and California is easy to pull from. To me there is no reason UW should not be top 15 year in and year out. I’m not saying I want them to be or they will ever be again, but for them to shoot for and achieve less is a failure.
Well we can agree to disagree I guess but I would counterpoint a couple of things. WA talent is not that great... Easy to pull from California? Cal is talent rich but you also have multiple schools with just as much if not more to offer some closer to home. If you are a highly rated kid from Northern California let’s say...you have offers from USC, Or, Cal, Stanford, UW, and Ohio State. Depending on your criteria, UW is far down the list. Furd, Cal, better education and closer to home...Oregon, closer to home, facilities, flash, Nike U. USC, facilities, eh, but king of the conference, NFL factory. Ohio State, far away but a true elite, tier one football school. I’m not saying UW is crap, they should be and have been a solid program. But they don’t have an abundance of top tier talent in their back yard and there’s several schools closer in proximity to their main recruiting grounds. And as mentioned the PAC-12 is not the respected conference it once was so some of the best players are going to the SEC, ACC, etc. where they feel their skills will find a broader audience. All those factors/variables, to me they are 30-35 nationally in a vacuum. With a top level coach/staff could they get better results? Sure. Lake hasn’t been the CEO of a program so that’s to be determined.
 
I don't think the West Coast high schools are putting out high end kids. I looked at the rivals top 100... 12 kids from the West Coast. Does not having played yet been a factor? Maybe. But kids that are legit top 100 players don't need a big senior year. They are already high end as a junior. In the entire West, I counted 65 kids that were 4 and 5 stars. For perspective, there were 45 kids that were 4 and 5 star players in Texas alone.

I don't believe West Coast kids play in the same culture as the rest of the country in high school. I don't think that lends itself to having kids really pushing themselves in high school. I think that shows up at the PAC 12 level. You have to develop kids in the PAC 12. I heard Pat Chun talking about WSU being a "development school." He is right. Show me which school in the PAC 12 isn't a development school. I can think of maybe 2 that get high end kids and even they aren't lighting the world on fire either.

You have a high school football culture that imo is a "C" at best. You have a P5 conference that is fueled by these kids that haven't done much in high school. Is it any wonder the league is down???

The best talent is leaving and there isn't much of it to start with. It will take at least a redshirt year and maybe even a full 3 years before kids have made up the ground they lost in high school and actually can start competing at a level consistent with other P5 conferences.

If your entire league is 3 star kids that didn't do crap in high school and now need to play catch up in the weight room and practice field... is anyone surprised that the PAC 12 doesn't get the recognition it wants???
 
Seattle is to the USA what Pullman is to Seattle. Far away from everything.

As an East coast transplant, this is 100% correct. Seattle is viewed as a "who TF would want to live there" city by 85% of the Nation. The job market is the draw, but with King County politics the way they are, we are a couple of corporate relocations away from a massive recession. I don't suspect that will happen anytime soon, but it will happen if the political climate doesn't change.

Apart from that, recruiting to the NW is always challenging. The age old saying is that you recruit to sunny, southern climates, and you convince (beg) kids to come up North. Seattle is a tough sell in the professional sports market as well. Your nearest rival in football and baseball is 1,000 miles away, and your travel schedule is insane compared to other teams. The TV market is compromised, which means the endorsement deals are more scarce. Perhaps most importantly, you live thousands of miles away from your family and 2/3 of the Nation. And again, there's the weather. 8 months of gray, gloomy rain.

The Pacific NW is a gorgeous region. There isn't a better place to spend your summers. Apart from that, Seattle and Portland have become dumps.
 
I don't think the West Coast high schools are putting out high end kids. I looked at the rivals top 100... 12 kids from the West Coast. Does not having played yet been a factor? Maybe. But kids that are legit top 100 players don't need a big senior year. They are already high end as a junior. In the entire West, I counted 65 kids that were 4 and 5 stars. For perspective, there were 45 kids that were 4 and 5 star players in Texas alone.

I don't believe West Coast kids play in the same culture as the rest of the country in high school. I don't think that lends itself to having kids really pushing themselves in high school. I think that shows up at the PAC 12 level. You have to develop kids in the PAC 12. I heard Pat Chun talking about WSU being a "development school." He is right. Show me which school in the PAC 12 isn't a development school. I can think of maybe 2 that get high end kids and even they aren't lighting the world on fire either.

You have a high school football culture that imo is a "C" at best. You have a P5 conference that is fueled by these kids that haven't done much in high school. Is it any wonder the league is down???

The best talent is leaving and there isn't much of it to start with. It will take at least a redshirt year and maybe even a full 3 years before kids have made up the ground they lost in high school and actually can start competing at a level consistent with other P5 conferences.

If your entire league is 3 star kids that didn't do crap in high school and now need to play catch up in the weight room and practice field... is anyone surprised that the PAC 12 doesn't get the recognition it wants???

There's no question about it. The P12 is to the other P5 conferences what the MWC is to the P12. The cute, soft little conference out West.

The P12 needs to take a deep breath and work on football branding out West.
 
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There's no question about it. The P12 is to the other P5 conferences what the MWC is to the P12. The cute, soft little conference out West.

The P12 needs to take a deep breath and work on football branding out West.

Michael Scott has ruined the brand. He is chasing fools gold. 9am kickoffs??? For whose benefit?

The PAC 12 brand on the West Coast sucks. Why does the brand matter more in the Midwest, East or South??? Win your backyard first.

When Im the PAC 12 commish.... we are playing all 11. We are not flying off to far away stadiums for one off non con games. We are not playing FCS schools. We are not playing the 1 non con game on the schedule at another stadium. It is about building the brand from the West Coast out. It’s about our kids home by midnight and families within a reasonable distance of seeing their sons play. It’s about shopping a tv deal with suspense, drama, local ties and a build up towards the end of the season title chase. You want the best tv deal possible??? It starts with offering the best games possible. Play all 11, get as many regional eyes as possible.
 
Who cares, the UW typically gets what they want, the issue about in state Kids leaving is a sign of the times, look at all the great CA players that head to the SEC, they used to be a lock for USC, this is a pac 12 problem, which is much bigger than just the UW. It has brought more parity to the Pac 12 as teams like USC, UW, and UCLA used to dominate the pac 10, as they have dropped the others have improved slightly. As for Oregon, they seem to get a great class every year, but the results on the field are not reflective of their recruiting. Unfortunately all of this is one of the many reasons the Pac 12 is a weaker conference. Maybe It'll change, but it might be another decade.
 
Who cares, the UW typically gets what they want, the issue about in state Kids leaving is a sign of the times, look at all the great CA players that head to the SEC, they used to be a lock for USC, this is a pac 12 problem, which is much bigger than just the UW. It has brought more parity to the Pac 12 as teams like USC, UW, and UCLA used to dominate the pac 10, as they have dropped the others have improved slightly. As for Oregon, they seem to get a great class every year, but the results on the field are not reflective of their recruiting. Unfortunately all of this is one of the many reasons the Pac 12 is a weaker conference. Maybe It'll change, but it might be another decade.

Oregon is where 4 and 5 star prospects go to be in a 2 star culture and lose.
 
As much as I hate Oregon, Oregon didn't have a 2-star culture under Chip, and it doesn't really under Cristobal, either. You can question how good of a coach Cristobal is, and the players have some entitlement issues and other douchery issues like the clownish strength coach with the hipster facial hair, but compared to the Girl Scout camp cultures established by the typical UCLA and USC cultures, he has some aspects of that program working pretty well. Those guys will be pretty dangerous in coming years if he sticks around.
 
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