Re: Wulff - felt the same
Re: Leach - felt the same
Re: Rolo - glad I wasn't the only one!
Price is basically the first HC I remember, and didn't have enough thought into football at my age to comment on going with Doba.
Dennis Dodd catches up with Jake Dickert
- Thread starter M-I-Coug
- Start date
Re: Leach - felt the same
Re: Rolo - glad I wasn't the only one!
Price is basically the first HC I remember, and didn't have enough thought into football at my age to comment on going with Doba.
It’s almost 2022. It’s time to put away examples of coaching hires from the 80’s and 90’s. It’s a different era now.
If WSU is hitting the market with $4,000,000 to pay, they can get a good coach.
P5 schools are a difficult place to learn how to be a head coach. Dickert may have to go off and prove himself somewhere else before he gets a P5 job.
Okay wait. 2 months ago you wanted to fire "turd" and replace him with what? An interim, like Dickert Or some "brand name" that wouldn't have been available at the time?!?
You kinda make it sound like the 9 commits are because we have a "not ready for primetime" coach all the while not acknowledging we are in a world where (even according to your wishes) we actually exist. Taihtsat
Stupid comment to say there would be a coach available midseason. Just dumb.
taihtsat
You're focusing your rage at the wrong people. Our reputation comes from what people outside the WSU circle think of 'us', not what we think if ourselves as a school/program. That reputation only changes by winning a lot of games for a long enough time to span more than 1 coach. It requires getting to and winning big national level games. The only way to shortcut that process is with massive amounts of cash. That is never happening. And your little list of 3 items doesn't mean shit to any name coaches or recruits. Name coaches want to coach at schools whose name assists in recruiting not hinders. None of WSU's successes in their history even make the seismic football needle begin to move. Your delusions won't change that. You can't just will us into being a desirable program.
The fact that our results on the field have massively exceeded our reputation over the last few years and had absolutely zero affect on how the football world sees us should tell you all you need to know
Dennis Erickson wasn't a crap shoot and pretty much was a sure thing as early as his second year at Idaho.
WSU coveted him over Walden as early as 1984 when it became apparent that Walden & Walden's offensive schemes with the RPM backfield were under performing.
Why is Dickert incapable of being a good HC. He’s been coaching quite a while he’s not a f’ing intern.
He has what, 2 games as a head coach? So not an intern but sure as hell not experienced. And 38 years old as a coach is young, even if he has 15 years of experience as a coach.
Incapable of being a good HC??? Dunno yet. He sure as hell doesnt come off like one in his interview. And for me, that’s a hard no. He can go learn on the job somewhere else and then come back. Im not in favor of hiring him at this time.
Ericsson may have been a sure thing to you in 1987. For me, at the ripe old age of 22 and without the benefit of the internet, he was a big sky head coach who just bailed on his first D1 gig after one year. I certainly didn’t know any better at the time. So yes, I thought it was a crapshoot.
After 1988 I thought Erickson was a god and I believed him when he said he would be in Pullman for a long time. And what did he do? He bailed for the next big gig. Just like he did to Wyoming. Kinda proving that it was a crapshoot and it didn’t work out for us. Just not in the way that I feared it might not work out when he was first hired.
What are you looking for in his interviews? As for being young and inexperienced, Klingsberry is doing pretty well in Arizona. McVay is doing pretty well with the Rams. Tomlin was hired by the Steelers at like 35. To me it has nothing to do with the money available. $4 mill doesn’t get you a sure thing coach in P5 football, especially in Pullman where you have to be creative and do things different to recruit and build a winner. So you can throw $4 mill at someone and have a 50/50 shot of them succeeding or you can go with the guy who’s proving it OTJ and really seems to like Pullman and wants to be here. And you also keep probably the best defensive coach WSU has had since Doba. This is an easy decision IMO.
Question for you Biggs:
Let's go back in time. Assume there was no such thing as COVID. The pandemic never happened.
Who would you rather be coaching this team today, Rolovich or Dickert?
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Is it? What are you advocating? Sign Dickert? Sign some other big name? From where? When? You just said this earlier:
"The time is now.
Colorado has 17 commits.
Stanford has 21 commits.
Arizona has 16 commits.
UCLA has 12 commits.
Schools with issues are landing guys. Schools without HCs are gonna struggle.
First signing date is a month from now. Waiting until after the first date to start recruiting isnt a plan for success. Its a plan for failure.
This is a mess"
How would you have avoided this mess?
Loaded question. Neither have really had sufficient body of work.
So I choose neither just to be difficult.
I would have fired Turd when he skipped media days, like I wrote.
As soon as you know your guy isnt the guy, you move.
And yes I understand the issue of money. WSU has been around 100 years. I don’t believe that they don’t have the buyout money or can’t get it. But letting this drag out like it did? No way. Too much drama. And if you had plans to watch Dickert as the interim coach to evaluate him as a potential HC???? It would be done by now, not just starting.
Don’t confuse brand name with big name. People are putting words in my posts.
In his interview I wanna know why he is running an defense that requires the two of the most highly sought after players and what is his plan to land them consistently. I wanna know what offense he is going to run. I wanna know why he is offering scholarships to Big Sky talent LBs. I wanna know what his pitch is to parents, cause it wasnt working before all this happened. I wanna know how he evaluates staff and hires or fires them. I wanna know how he handles discipline. I wanna know how he handles taking away an underachieving players scholarship. I wanna know his vision for off field support staff, who to hire? what roles? what expectations? I wanna know where he wants to recruit. How does he handle Jucos, portals, etc. Does he redshirt? Does he not? How do you attract high end assistants? How do you keep them? Can you be a HC and also be their friend? Can you not? How do you handle boosters? Are you prepared to spend more time with these kids than yours? Are you prepared to have less time with your wife?
There are a zillion questions to be asked and answered. This idea that he is a great guy or who else can we get or he won games down the stretch or the kids play hard for him…. doesnt even scratch the surface of what it means to be a HC. And Im not interested in watching a guy that may or may not have it all together. This is nowhere to learn. The stakes are too high.
Let’s say WSU interviews Mike Riley, Rick Neuheisel, any Pac 12 retread coach and Dickert.
Dickert gets exposed real quick. He doesnt know what he doesnt know. He has no time coaching in the league, recruiting in the league, etc. He will get blown away by the experience of the other candidates.
It would he solely hiring him on a handful of games and being a great guy.
If that’s enough for you, fine. But it isnt for me. This is more than just being a great guy or someone the kids like. This is running an organization with millions being spent and responsible for the jobs and careers if everyone in the building. Being a great guy isnt enough.
Understood. However I think your position is impractical. If you fire Rolovich that far back you still have to find a coach. Who would that be or have been? If you elevate Dickert we are right back where we are now - an uncertain coaching situation where potential recruits still don't know If the guy is the guy.
When you say "brand name" or "big name", who would have been available to fill that bill that is both a good fit AND not some "meh", retread. Who in early September would have worked? Plus you would have also needed to let the other 4 go. and a new guy would be hard pressed to gather a staff.
Maybe Chun really had some legitimate hope that Rolo was going to eventually comply. And as for having the money...do you KNOW that?
By Chun waiting he has strengthened the case for dismissal by acting in good faith and giving Rolo every opportunity to comply. Plus, there was still a far off deadline to apply for an exemption. You would have fired him before that process was completed which likely would've triggered an immediate lawsuit which likely would have placed WSU squarely in the crosshairs rather than the shield of the state of Washington.
Who is the brand name or big name that would have satisfied you? And how would that averted where we are now?
Holy tap dancing Moses. Chun wasnt hiring any new coach to come in and change everything in August. Clue in. He would have done exactly what he did, elevate Dickert. Fuc$ing hell you dont gd get it. And I have never said “big name.” I have said “brand name.” That means someone who is known. Someone that walks in the door and people know who they are, what they are about, where they have been. Not a 38 year old DC from the Upper Midwest with zero ties to the PNW or West Coast. He aint the guy.
Turd said he wasnt getting vaxed. Take him at his word. Move on. Holding out hope for a guy with a damaged relationship with the President of the university, for whatever reason, isnt the way to go. You move on him asap.
Again, I said you fire him. Negotiate the buy out. Move on. There wouldnt be a lawsuit. Here you are again putting words into my posts that were never written. Then you double down with stupid scenarios.
Again, I have never written about a “big name.” Stop with your bullshit fake news.
This isn’t about an immediate hire. This is about Dickert being the interim and then interviewing for the job. Recruiting is already fuc$ed. Your focus should be getting a good coach and moving forward. Not tap dancing around dumb issues like “he’s a good guy” or “he fits Pullman” or “he could be here for the long haul.”
This is coaching. People move on. They get new jobs. They get fired. The days of having a 15, 20, 30 year coach are slim and none.
I do not have a list of names that I would hire. I have a list of names I would want to talk to/interview. I would get guys in the room and give them a chance to impress me. What do they know about WSU? What do they know about recruiting? What have they learned at other jobs that would benefit WSU? What is their reputation in SoCal? How do they get along with boosters? How do they handle adversity? Are they able to attract a quality staff? Cause not everyone will work for anyone. Relationships matter. Can I count on this coach to sacrifice himself and his family for the university, program, players?
Do you know why you hire a guy that has been around? Cause they’ve seen and learned things. Jeff Banks, aside from his stripper gf and her monkey, has been at A&M, Alabama and Texas. He has seen what it is supposed to look like. He knows the role of support staff and what they can do to advance your program. You aren’t talking to a guy that is trailblazing with new ideas. He can use the experience he has and implement that right now. Can Dickert? Did the Wisconsin d3 league have that? How about Mankato? Or NDState? Or anywhere else he has been? No. He has no idea what is out there because he has not been to any of those schools. When Dickert walks into Katy HS in Texas, does the HC there even know who he is? How about any other big HS program? That’s what brand name does for you. The HS HC doesnt have to wonder if you will do right by his kids, he has already sent you kids.
The first high school I walked into to recruit…. In PA, zero idea about anything in high school football…. Berwick HS. I sat across from George Curry not having any fuc$ing idea who he was. When I looked over his shoulder and saw his photo with the president I clued in. When I saw photos of Ron Powlus the light went on. You have to know who you are talking to. No way should my boss have allowed me to recruit that school. You send a coach of equal stature to recruit some of these programs. Brand name matters.
Good stuff Krusty, save the part about Chun acting in good faith, didn't happen.
You are way oversimplifying this. Having $4M doesn’t guarantee you a good coach. Having head coaching experience doesn’t guarantee you a good coach. Charlie Weiss, Tom Hermann, Les Myles to name a few. Schools with way more resources than WSU had have whiffed on coaches even though they have truckloads of money. As for recruiting Dickert is in an impossible spot because nobody knows if he’s going to be here. You are a dumbass if you are putting the current recruiting standing on Dickert. If he’s given a contract that all changes, and he’s in a better spot than half the lame ducks in the conference.
If he finishes this shit show of a season strong it would be stupid for Chun not to give him a contract. If it looks dicey, interview away. If we beat Oregon, it’s a National story and Dickert would be a splash hire!
I am not oversimplifying anything. I have seen the options WSU had when they went shopping with $600,000. I have also seen the options they had when they went shopping with $4,000,000. Not the same guy.
Charlie Weiss, Super Bowl.
Les Miles, National Championship.
Both good coaches, had issues. It didn’t work. Maybe Notre Dame and Kansas should have gone shopping with $600,000 instead???
Dickert, or whoever is hired, is screwed in recruiting. Complete disaster. No campus visits, no game day visits, no relationships, first signing day will have past and crushed the available talent. It’s not where you wanna be.
If Dickert wins games and goes bowling and shows well, he has done as much as he can do. It would not be unreasonable to hire him if he wins the interviews. But you still interview.
Relax a bit. You post good stuff. I think you are reading into what I actually posted. I agree with your criteria for finding a coach. Maybe I missed something but I was really reacting to the post I quoted you above where you said "the time is now" and "this is a mess". It is a mess. My point wss it wss going to be a mess anyway whether Chun did what you wanted him to do back in August or mid October.
All that stuff about walking into a high school or recruits house with "cache" or an "aura" or even gravitas I'm not debating with you on
I think this is hindsight bias a bit. You don't agree. If we were in a pub sitting and chatting I would be asking you the same things - just for clarity. I dont think the mess could have avoided. You do. And if the "time is now", there certainly doesnt seem to be that clear-cut candidate out there. Taihtsat
Schulz should have taken Turd at his word and fired him in July. Bump Dickert to interim HC. Move forward.
What you can’t do is let it linger and drag on. You can’t have this scenario with the mandate. You can’t have all this drama around your program. You can’t wait until the last half of the season to find out if your interim is the guy or not. You can’t let your program have jack squat for recruiting heading into the December signing date. You can’t have a lawsuit with a lawyer dragging your school thru the mud.
You make difficult decisions asap and move forward. Fire him, negotiate the buyout, get on with football.
If you are Turd, wtf are you doing? Why would you drag this out, have all these questions, have all this drama with fans and media, have all this drama with the firing… To hell with all that. Take your buyout or even resign. Have a press conference in July and tell people you are Catholic, you are not on board with fetus research and leave now. Avoid all the drama, don’t find yourself in a lawsuit with the school, don’t let this become a black eye on your resume or career for potential employers. Call Brian Kelly and ask for a job at Notre Dame. Take your check and go on down the road. Don’t find yourself in this drama. Don’t find yourself having to answer questions from future employers about a lawsuit. Leave in a way everyone can save face. Move on.
I get Biggs' points to an extent. With WSU's circumstances, I think it makes more, not less, sense to have a "name" coach. it's a clear selling point that makes the recruiting decision about playing for that coach and system. That said, there's a big difference between someone like Mike Leach, a nationally recognized coach famous for being the pioneer of a well-known offense, and someone like Norvell or Grinch. Sure, those guys have some name value, with Norvell known for a good passing offense, but it's not like it was with Leach, and we saw with Leach that even with a relatively big name at head coach, we generally are going to recruit in the same range as we otherwise would.
As to the point about needing head coaching experience, again, there's merit to that. Potentially a great deal. If this search was done in a vacuum and Jake Dickert was the defensive coordinator for the Beavs or at Arizona, it's not like he would be anywhere on anyone's radar, let alone a must-get, as a head coach. That, in addition to all the other messiness with the locker room, etc. is the crux of the issue.
Here's one last point, though ... WSU never has hired a sitting P5 head coach, nor do I think it is in a position to do so now. We know we aren't bringing in a head coach from FCS again, or, at least, I sure as hell hope not, and the same likely applies to non-G of 5 schools from the Sun Belt, CUSA, and the like. So if you need to have someone with head coaching experience, that pretty much limits your pool to whoever is ready to graduate from the G of 5 at the particular time you have an opening, which in practice pretty much means the Mountain West. So you're just choosing among the DeBoer and Norvell types, like we just did with Rolovich, and competing with other programs to land that type of coach, too. These guys have some experience and various lower degrees of "name" value, but it's not that extensive. They also have some existing recruiting connections on the west coast, which may help recruiting a little, but that was in the context of recruiting MWC players, and those connections aren't really going to move the needle in the medium or longer terms. Hiring one of those guys (and doing so as soon as possible, if that's the call) may help salvage recruiting this year a little bit, which has some value, but I wouldn't let that dictate the move.
Chun is in a weird spot here. At this point, I think he has to let the next few weeks play out, barring an extreme result either way tonight.
As to the point about needing head coaching experience, again, there's merit to that. Potentially a great deal. If this search was done in a vacuum and Jake Dickert was the defensive coordinator for the Beavs or at Arizona, it's not like he would be anywhere on anyone's radar, let alone a must-get, as a head coach. That, in addition to all the other messiness with the locker room, etc. is the crux of the issue.
Here's one last point, though ... WSU never has hired a sitting P5 head coach, nor do I think it is in a position to do so now. We know we aren't bringing in a head coach from FCS again, or, at least, I sure as hell hope not, and the same likely applies to non-G of 5 schools from the Sun Belt, CUSA, and the like. So if you need to have someone with head coaching experience, that pretty much limits your pool to whoever is ready to graduate from the G of 5 at the particular time you have an opening, which in practice pretty much means the Mountain West. So you're just choosing among the DeBoer and Norvell types, like we just did with Rolovich, and competing with other programs to land that type of coach, too. These guys have some experience and various lower degrees of "name" value, but it's not that extensive. They also have some existing recruiting connections on the west coast, which may help recruiting a little, but that was in the context of recruiting MWC players, and those connections aren't really going to move the needle in the medium or longer terms. Hiring one of those guys (and doing so as soon as possible, if that's the call) may help salvage recruiting this year a little bit, which has some value, but I wouldn't let that dictate the move.
Chun is in a weird spot here. At this point, I think he has to let the next few weeks play out, barring an extreme result either way tonight.
I HATED the Rolo hire from day one, and have thought Dickert to be the best coach on staff...
That said, I also understand what Biggs is saying. This is a perfect time for WSU to flex its $4M muscles and hire a P5 guy. You're not messing around, and you can win here. And the time is now.
(Do I trust Chun to make that happen? No.)
If Dickert BLOWS OUT Oregon, wins out, and wins Championship game, and goes to Rosebowl, and wins Rosebowl:
Then you hire Dickert as a NO BRAINER, no hand wringing, no interviews needed, wanted, etc, you just immediately hire him.
If Dickert BLOWS out Oregon, wins last 2, loses champ game, goes to bowl, no interview, Dickert HC.
If Dickert BLOWS out Oregon, and wins 1 of last 2, goes bowling, Dickert HC.
If Dickert beats Oregon in close game, wins out, Rosebowl, etc, Dickert HC
If Dickert wins close game vs Oregon, Splits last 2, goes bowling. Dickert HC.
If Dickert loses close game to Oregon, wins last 2, bowl, at least close bowl game, Dickert HC.
If Dickert loses Close game to Oregon, Splits last 2, wins bowl game. Dickert HC.
If Dickert loses close game to Oregon, splits last 2, the loss is close, barely loses bowl game. Dickert HC
If Dickert gets blown out by Oregon, but then Blows out Arizona, and UW, wins big in bowl game. Dickert HC.
If Dickert gets blown out by Oregon, wins close game vs Arizona, UW, bowl game. Dickert HC.
If Dickert blown out by Oregon, Splits last 2, loss is close, win is blow out, wins big in a blow out in bowl. Dickert HC
Anything less then that and Dickert NOT HC.
The INTERVIEW, is his COACHING, and COACHING RESULTS.
Then you hire Dickert as a NO BRAINER, no hand wringing, no interviews needed, wanted, etc, you just immediately hire him.
If Dickert BLOWS out Oregon, wins last 2, loses champ game, goes to bowl, no interview, Dickert HC.
If Dickert BLOWS out Oregon, and wins 1 of last 2, goes bowling, Dickert HC.
If Dickert beats Oregon in close game, wins out, Rosebowl, etc, Dickert HC
If Dickert wins close game vs Oregon, Splits last 2, goes bowling. Dickert HC.
If Dickert loses close game to Oregon, wins last 2, bowl, at least close bowl game, Dickert HC.
If Dickert loses Close game to Oregon, Splits last 2, wins bowl game. Dickert HC.
If Dickert loses close game to Oregon, splits last 2, the loss is close, barely loses bowl game. Dickert HC
If Dickert gets blown out by Oregon, but then Blows out Arizona, and UW, wins big in bowl game. Dickert HC.
If Dickert gets blown out by Oregon, wins close game vs Arizona, UW, bowl game. Dickert HC.
If Dickert blown out by Oregon, Splits last 2, loss is close, win is blow out, wins big in a blow out in bowl. Dickert HC
Anything less then that and Dickert NOT HC.
The INTERVIEW, is his COACHING, and COACHING RESULTS.
Coaching means being the HC CEO, even if only as temporary interim basis. It means recruiting, and all the things you mentioned, in addition to X's and O's.
If Dickert wins out, wins Ros bowl, etc, it will be because he is more then a good X's and O's coach. It would be because he is everything you mentioned.
Altho this recruiting class is bad, because of Rolo, last 1,2 recruiting classes, would have played a part in winning a Rosebowl. And Dickert would have played a part in that.
Like I said if Dickert goes to a Rosebowl and wins it, It's a NO BRAINER AUTO HIRE of Dickert as HC. No interview.
Now in some of the other scenarios, then yeah, maybe you do a search, interview, and interview Dickert, and hire him if he does well in the interview, and if there is not a Mike Leach, name coach, etc.
Interim HC, CEO Coaching, Results, etc is the INTERVIEW, if the results are awesome enough.
Agree. If WSU wins the Rose Bowl Dickert should be hired.
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