Dumb/questionable coaching moves

[KRUSTYtheCOUG]

Many posts about Rolo and the staff being in over their skis and such...well, let's back that up. Whaddya got?

For me, not kicking the field goal when up 7-0 was dumb. Leach often passed on FGs and i thought that was dumb, too. Possessions matter. You make it a 2-score game. Field goals matter! Scoring matters! Especially when you just lost 3 yds on 3 plays.

Certainly no genius on defense I am, but it seemed there was no adjustment made in the 2nd half. To me it appeared we went cover-2 often and that is where both Rogers and Brown got toasted right down the middle when SC went double-wides. Is that the glaring hole with a 4-2-5? It certainly didn't appear to be a cover-3.

Plus this continual substitution on defense, eve when SC went up-tempo. That cost us 5 yds in the red zone. Anyone else got anything? That's all I have to say about that.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Many posts about Rolo and the staff being in over their skis and such...well, let's back that up. Whaddya got?

For me, not kicking the field goal when up 7-0 was dumb. Leach often passed on FGs and i thought that was dumb, too. Possessions matter. You make it a 2-score game. Field goals matter! Scoring matters! Especially when you just lost 3 yds on 3 plays.

Certainly no genius on defense I am, but it seemed there was no adjustment made in the 2nd half. To me it appeared we went cover-2 often and that is where both Rogers and Brown got toasted right down the middle when SC went double-wides. Is that the glaring hole with a 4-2-5? It certainly didn't appear to be a cover-3.

Plus this continual substitution on defense, eve when SC went up-tempo. That cost us 5 yds in the red zone. Anyone else got anything? That's all I have to say about that.

Glaring holes in the 425…..

The ability of the offense to formation your 425 into a 43…. what’s the point of being a 425 when you can be turned into a 43 by the other team???

When the offense formations your 425 into a 43… that safety is walking down… what does he look like??? Is he a bruiser? Is he a sure tackler? Can he take on a block and shed it? Is he over or under 200lbs???

Who is the edge player? The DE. Can he set the edge? If he gets reached who is there to stop it??? 425 defense is 2 blocks away from house calls. Reach the DE and get second level on flowing linebacker. Que the band it’s 6 points.

Who defends the slot wr? The LB? That was good for 12 points yesterday. What is the point of having 5 DBs on the field when you ask a 230lbs LB to defend the seam??? What does that slot WR look like??? Prob point guard quick and track meet fast. Dickert defended that guy with 230lbs run stopper.

Who defends the tight end in pass coverage??? 6’6” 250lbs TE goes into a route. Who covers him? Linebacker? Sure hope so cause your 5th DB isn’t gonna match up well. Imagine being 5’11” and playing one on one basketball with a 6’6” buddy. He is going to post you up. Same thing on the field. First downs up and down the field.

I understand why guys use it. They wanna defend the pass. The prob is its too easily manipulated by the offense by formations and mismatches. And…. you have to get a big time hybrid player to walk down. Does WSU have him and can they get that player consistently?

 

[95coug]

Glaring holes in the 425…..

The ability of the offense to formation your 425 into a 43…. what’s the point of being a 425 when you can be turned into a 43 by the other team???

When the offense formations your 425 into a 43… that safety is walking down… what does he look like??? Is he a bruiser? Is he a sure tackler? Can he take on a block and shed it? Is he over or under 200lbs???

Who is the edge player? The DE. Can he set the edge? If he gets reached who is there to stop it??? 425 defense is 2 blocks away from house calls. Reach the DE and get second level on flowing linebacker. Que the band it’s 6 points.

Who defends the slot wr? The LB? That was good for 12 points yesterday. What is the point of having 5 DBs on the field when you ask a 230lbs LB to defend the seam??? What does that slot WR look like??? Prob point guard quick and track meet fast. Dickert defended that guy with 230lbs run stopper.

Who defends the tight end in pass coverage??? 6’6” 250lbs TE goes into a route. Who covers him? Linebacker? Sure hope so cause your 5th DB isn’t gonna match up well. Imagine being 5’11” and playing one on one basketball with a 6’6” buddy. He is going to post you up. Same thing on the field. First downs up and down the field.

I understand why guys use it. They wanna defend the pass. The prob is its too easily manipulated by the offense by formations and mismatches. And…. you have to get a big time hybrid player to walk down. Does WSU have him and can they get that player consistently?

425 could work - in theory - if you have a dominant DL and LBs and corners with the speed for blitzing…to the point that the opposing QB never has time to see the field.

First problem, we don’t have either of those things.

Second problem, 425 theoretically works against the offenses of 10-20 years ago. The proliferation of quick passing offenses and RPO make it vulnerable.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

425 could work - in theory - if you have a dominant DL and LBs and corners with the speed for blitzing…to the point that the opposing QB never has time to see the field.

First problem, we don’t have either of those things.

Second problem, 425 theoretically works against the offenses of 10-20 years ago. The proliferation of quick passing offenses and RPO make it vulnerable.

4-2-5 also needs cornerbacks that are talented enough that they don't have to sit 10 yards off the ball each down to keep from getting burned deep. We give other teams so much cushion you'd think that our defense is sponsored by Laz-E-Boy.

 

[BiggsCoug]

425 could work - in theory - if you have a dominant DL and LBs and corners with the speed for blitzing…to the point that the opposing QB never has time to see the field.

First problem, we don’t have either of those things.

Second problem, 425 theoretically works against the offenses of 10-20 years ago. The proliferation of quick passing offenses and RPO make it vulnerable.

You need the 1 guy that is a unicorn. A true NG. Every school in America is looking for them.

Then you need a hybrid LB/S. A guy that can run, hit, take on blocks, pass defend. This guy is another unicorn.

The 425 is a shit scheme. Don’t believe me? 45 points and a back up QB that didnt have shit for reps in practice or games just dropped 400 yards on it.

 

[95coug]

You need the 1 guy that is a unicorn. A true NG. Every school in America is looking for them.

Then you need a hybrid LB/S. A guy that can run, hit, take on blocks, pass defend. This guy is another unicorn.

The 425 is a shit scheme. Don’t believe me? 45 points and a back up QB that didnt have shit for reps in practice or games just dropped 400 yards on it.

Nope. You need TWO of the hybrid LB/S, who can cover the RB out of the backfield or the TE, who can run support, and who can blitz.

If you try to shift from a 3-4 concept to a 425, it's not going to work. That means you're taking LBs who were recruited mostly as run support and trying to make them cover receivers. When you do that, you see things like Justus Rogers running 7 yards behind a wide open slot receiver.

 

[spongeandshoot]

Why can't we just go back to the Doba 4-3?

It can't be hard to find smaller DE's with speed...and underside LB's with speed.

Obviously we need size at the DT's....but that is easier than getting the NT. Not a lot of them lying around.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Nope. You need TWO of the hybrid LB/S, who can cover the RB out of the backfield or the TE, who can run support, and who can blitz.

If you try to shift from a 3-4 concept to a 425, it's not going to work. That means you're taking LBs who were recruited mostly as run support and trying to make them cover receivers. When you do that, you see things like Justus Rogers running 7 yards behind a wide open slot receiver.

Yes. The SC OC used a formation to get the matchup he wanted. Good for 12 points.

Every team on the schedule is running that route out of that formation now.

 

[95coug]

Yes. The SC OC used a formation to get the matchup he wanted. Good for 12 points.

Every team on the schedule is running that route out of that formation now.

I suspect that most of the coaches in the conference are looking at our game film and saying that they don't really need to worry about much prep for us.

 

[CougPatrol]

I suspect that most of the coaches in the conference are looking at our game film and saying that they don't really need to worry about much prep for us.

That would be a mistake. Most of the teams in our conference aren’t any better than Utah St.

 

[NMBRCRNCHR]

Yes. The SC OC used a formation to get the matchup he wanted. Good for 12 points.

Every team on the schedule is running that route out of that formation now.

Didn't USC do that to us in 2006 with Steve Smith? As I recall, dude ran wild matched up against linebackers...

 

[CougEd]

4-2-5 also needs cornerbacks that are talented enough that they don't have to sit 10 yards off the ball each down to keep from getting burned deep. We give other teams so much cushion you'd think that our defense is sponsored by Laz-E-Boy.

I didn't see Saturday's game as I was on an airplane and spent a good portion of my trip trying to get it streamed, it just didn't work out. I was on the Peloton last night as the PAc 12 60 in 60 played the game. Watson was right there on so many throws. The back shoulder fade was perfect on I believe three throws, impossible to defend.

For a guy who got toasted, I have never seen better coverage for a guy who got owned. If that was years past we would have been trailing at the corner position of committing a PI. It is s shame we only get that kid for one year.

 

[95coug]

That would be a mistake. Most of the teams in our conference aren’t any better than Utah St.

That may be true, but I think it's equally true that no lead will be safe with this team. It'll be pretty easy for opponents to scheme their way into a massive mismatch and score 3 TDs per quarter. Especially in the second half, which appears to extend beyond the attention span of this staff.

 

[kougkurt]

I didn't see Saturday's game as I was on an airplane and spent a good portion of my trip trying to get it streamed, it just didn't work out. I was on the Peloton last night as the PAc 12 60 in 60 played the game. Watson was right there on so many throws. The back shoulder fade was perfect on I believe three throws, impossible to defend.

For a guy who got toasted, I have never seen better coverage for a guy who got owned. If that was years past we would have been trailing at the corner position of committing a PI. It is s shame we only get that kid for one year.

Watson, IMO, played very well. London just made plays.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

You have to adjust your D to your players. If you have OLB's who can shed blocks but are quick enough to stay with a WR for 8-10 yards, then you can run a true 4-3. If you don't, then you can't.

If you have a true ILB who eats everything between the tackles, with two solid DT's in front of him, then you can work around some other issues.

If you have a hybrid kid who is fast enough to play safety but big enough to be a good OLB, then you can also work around some other issues.

If you have a true nose guard, with some tackles who are at least 270 pounds, strong and laterally quick, then you can consider a 3 man front. If you don't, you can't. As Biggs noted above, that nose guard is nearly a unicorn. I've watched portions of at least 20 college football games so far this season (that is about 40 teams, even with the repeats), and I've seen maybe 3 of those guys...with perhaps another half dozen that could kinda sorta do the job.

We have some depth in terms of OK DT's. Not great, but OK. Nobody this year who looks like he could play nose. We do not have a man-eating MLB. We have a safety or two who are almost big enough to play OLB...and we should, because that is probably the easiest kid to recruit (along with the OLB's) of all the positions that I noted at the beginning. But how fast are they? That is hard to say, because a kid whose field awareness is 100% can mask being a bit slower unless he finds himself in an out and out footrace. And a kid with poor mechanics or field awareness often finds himself a step or two behind from the beginning, so even if he is as fast as the WR he can't catch up. There have not been a ton of footraces thus far this season.

I guess I'm trying to say that there is no magic defensive formation. We can't run a 3 man front without the right nose, so that is out. Of the 4 man front choices, I like a 4-3 but we would have 3 smaller but quick LB's on the field if we did that (because we lack a Pelluer or similar MLB). Our best shot might well be to run a 425 if we have some safeties who can play the hybrid role...and if we don't have a great choice that way, it might well be the least bad option.

Finally, regardless of the formation, we have to have execution. That has been getting noticeably better, but still has a way to go. A lot fewer blown assignments in game 3 than in game 1, as you would expect, but we need to get close to zero blown assignments to beat a good team.

 

[BiggsCoug]

You have to adjust your D to your players. If you have OLB's who can shed blocks but are quick enough to stay with a WR for 8-10 yards, then you can run a true 4-3. If you don't, then you can't.

If you have a true ILB who eats everything between the tackles, with two solid DT's in front of him, then you can work around some other issues.

If you have a hybrid kid who is fast enough to play safety but big enough to be a good OLB, then you can also work around some other issues.

If you have a true nose guard, with some tackles who are at least 270 pounds, strong and laterally quick, then you can consider a 3 man front. If you don't, you can't. As Biggs noted above, that nose guard is nearly a unicorn. I've watched portions of at least 20 college football games so far this season (that is about 40 teams, even with the repeats), and I've seen maybe 3 of those guys...with perhaps another half dozen that could kinda sorta do the job.

We have some depth in terms of OK DT's. Not great, but OK. Nobody this year who looks like he could play nose. We do not have a man-eating MLB. We have a safety or two who are almost big enough to play OLB...and we should, because that is probably the easiest kid to recruit (along with the OLB's) of all the positions that I noted at the beginning. But how fast are they? That is hard to say, because a kid whose field awareness is 100% can mask being a bit slower unless he finds himself in an out and out footrace. And a kid with poor mechanics or field awareness often finds himself a step or two behind from the beginning, so even if he is as fast as the WR he can't catch up. There have not been a ton of footraces thus far this season.

I guess I'm trying to say that there is no magic defensive formation. We can't run a 3 man front without the right nose, so that is out. Of the 4 man front choices, I like a 4-3 but we would have 3 smaller but quick LB's on the field if we did that (because we lack a Pelluer or similar MLB). Our best shot might well be to run a 425 if we have some safeties who can play the hybrid role...and if we don't have a great choice that way, it might well be the least bad option.

Finally, regardless of the formation, we have to have execution. That has been getting noticeably better, but still has a way to go. A lot fewer blown assignments in game 3 than in game 1, as you would expect, but we need to get close to zero blown assignments to beat a good team.

For perspective, the body type at NG you are looking for isn't 6'3" 280. It would be more like 6'3" 315 or more.

The hybrid you are looking for is more like Deone Buchanon. A kid that can run, hit, cover and be a swiss army knife as a DB. Is that kid on the roster???

What defensive scheme is best for WSU??? Doba's 43 was find the two largest humans possible to play DT, find the 2 fastest DEs to rush the passer and a strong MLB to run sideline to sideline and make tackles. Mix in good corners and safeties, voila. Grinch found a way to attack defenses with his speed D. Essentially have the DL run gaps and wreck shop. That worked because of the kids WSU can consistently recruit on the DL.

WSU has to get away from schemes that require unicorns to anchor them or make them go. WSU is a 3 star school. Which is 100% fine. Just pick schemes you can consistently recruit to and put kids in positions for success.

If you find yourself as a coach essentially taking a multiple choice test and you know all the answers are wrong but you still have to choose one... well, that's how 45 unanswered points lands on your doorstep.