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Can we get Kamie Ethridge to volunteer her services to the men's team? The girl's team moves so much better, passes better, cutting, open looks, post feeds, assists, etc...
I continue to be amazed at how Leach took so much grief for the comments he would make that were "blaming the players," but other coaches seem to be able to blame them and it's acceptable.
There is a certain section of Coug fans that know more about hoops than anybody and you can't question what Smith is doing.
I like what smith is doing but coaches and players have bad days. Leach lost to two FCS schools FFS. Yesterday was a bad day for smith and the team. I still like the future particularly if we can get most everyone back. But that was a piss poor effort, no doubt.
If you look back, nobody was harder on CKS than me. His offense was lackluster at best.
Fast forward a year, and there's better ball and player movement. For a stretch at the end of the season up until they ran out of gas in the Pac12 tourney, nobody in the west was hotter than the Cougs.
That said, not having Gueye is going to impact the defensive end and losing 15 points/8 boards is tough to make up. One thing overlooked is EWU got 14 points and 54 minutes from its bench. WSU had 4 points and 22 minutes. That's a big delta. Need to build depth in the program.
Last night didn't give me too much heartburn. EWU has really improved over the year and just picked the wrong time to stub their toe in the Big Sky tourney otherwise they'd be dancing.
Next year, Smith is going to have to pull a rabbit out of his hat to replace Gueye. If not, there's probably enough returning talent to go .500. And that's the bare minimum to stay employed as basketball coach in Pullman. Anything less, CKS needs to get lit up.
EWU is a good team and it was going to take a solid effort to win without Gueye. We didn’t get that effort. People got really excited because of our end of season run and thought things were finally improving and coming together but look who we beat in those games. The bottom of the conference, teams we were expected to beat. UW, OSU, CAL the only solid win was Oregon and we all saw what happened when we played them again in the PAC12 tourney. We have a decent team with decent players and decent coach end of story!
I would like to see us with more of a full deck for once. Before the season when we lost Jackson I thought NIT was about as far as we could get. In that sense, pretty good season given how much of the roster they lost from the prior year.
With Gueye likely gone we desperately need Dishon Jackson back at full strength. Jackson is still an unknow although the small number of times he's communicate indicates he's working himself back to play again. There are a lot of bodies with Diongue, Chinyelu, Cluff, (Wilson?) but relying on any of 3 for starter minutes seems risky.
If everyone sticks, we are finally old with solid experience and chemistry with players like Bamba, Powell, DJ Rodman, etc. with experience in more prominent roles. Of course, in this environment it's likely players move on beyond just Gueye. Is what it is, but beyond that we have lost too many games to injury/illness. That needs to somehow change.
With Gueye likely gone we desperately need Dishon Jackson back at full strength. Jackson is still an unknow although the small number of times he's communicate indicates he's working himself back to play again. There are a lot of bodies with Diongue, Chinyelu, Cluff, (Wilson?) but relying on any of 3 for starter minutes seems risky.
If everyone sticks, we are finally old with solid experience and chemistry with players like Bamba, Powell, DJ Rodman, etc. with experience in more prominent roles. Of course, in this environment it's likely players move on beyond just Gueye. Is what it is, but beyond that we have lost too many games to injury/illness. That needs to somehow change.
I think Gueye would be making a mistake leaving early, he needs another year to bulk up and improve on his game, injuries for him have been a problem. I am sure some NBA would take him in the first two rounds, but I think he would be much better off building up his body. His current body won't make it through half of an NBA season. However I would agree, there is a good chance he's gone.
I think he should return as well. In his own words, he's only played organized basketball for 4 years. One of the biggest issues to me is he doesn't quite have a position. In terms of his body, he's not a 5 at the next level. His skills are still raw for the 4 or 5. Come back, play the 4, build skills, head out the following year.
I hope whoever he is working with at least have him consider sticking around. Long-term, it could work out better for him. It obviously would for "us".
I hope whoever he is working with at least have him consider sticking around. Long-term, it could work out better for him. It obviously would for "us".
Replying to myself. I don't expect much from Chinyelu next year simply because it's a potentially tough transition, but he sure passes the eye test in terms of body/athleticism.
There were a heck of a lot of people on here saying before last season that Gueye had never even started in high school, so he was likely to be a redshirt. I wasn't one of those. I am open to all possibilities.
I like what Smith is doing as well. When is the last time WSU had four non-losing seasons in a row. I still believe without the injuries, this team would have made the NCAA's. I remember during the Cal game, the broadcasters were saying that Cal was bad, but they had over 100 missed games from players. The Cougars were fairly good, and they dwarf that number of games missed.
People bring up Kamie. But, people also forget that the game they struggled the most was the first game in the P12 tournament against a horrible Cal team (Cal saw some very bad basketball this year with awful men's and women's teams). If they had played a comparable team to EWU, we might not have seen that great run in the P12 tournament.
Plus, we all know that the women's team was 0-4 without their best player. Is it a surprise that the men lost to a good EWU team without their best player?
There is a lot of KNEE JERKING, and a lot of either not knowing, forgetting facts, info, injuries, CONTEXT, perspective.
A lot of that has been covered, thru some good reminder comments
1. WSU lost 7,8,9 KEY players from last year's 23 WIN NIT FINAL FOUR TEAM BETWEEN, graduation, transfers, NBA D League, INJURIES to Jaki, Rice, Jackson.
Now a lot of that was replaced with awesome pieces, but it was going to take time for those pieces to jell, develop chemistry, play together, learn to win, etc, EVEN IF THEY WERE TO BE HEALTHY, UNINJURED.
All the injuries either slowed down, prevented that process.
2. Only Smith, Bennet, Sampson, Raveling, have had A. 4,5 seasons of 500, winning seasons, combined with B. 2 back to back 500, winning conference records(Smith was 11-9 back to back), C. 2 Straight BACK TO BACK NIT+ tournaments.
The Goal post for on Smith have constantly been moved, when Smith met the goal post. 1st, after E Kent's DUMPSTER fire, and almost losing whole team, when Smith went 500 with that dumpster fire, the goal post was moved.
Then Smith went, had back to back 500 record. Still not enough. Goal post moved to 500 conference record, PAC 12 tourny wins, NIT, NCAA's. Smith gets 23 total wins, 11-9 record, PAC 12 tourny wins, NIT FINAL FOUR, goal post moved to NCAA's. Smith despite losing 7,8,9 KEY players from NIT team, despite INJURIES, etc, Smith MIRACULOUSLY wins 17 games, 11-9 conference, A PAC 12 tourny win, NIT, BUT that got INVALIDATED by a EWU team that SHOULD have won their conference, gotten a NCAA bid, that beat WSU by a CLOSE score in a CLOSE game. And the goal post gets moved to NCAA tourny, and when Smith gets that by getting 24 wins, 13-7 in conference, 1,2,3 PAC 12 tourny wins, NCAA bid. And when Smith loses by 1 point in quadruple overtime in first round to a team that shouldn't be in NCAA tourny, then all the NEGA COUGS will KNEE JERK again, and they will move the goal post again, and in their eyes, no matter what Smith does, it will never be enough, and held to a higher standard then all other WSU coaches.
3. Gueye is 50/50 on whether he comes back or not. Gueye not doing much in post season, is NOT going to help Gueye move up draft boards. At best Gueye is about 37 to 40 to 43 in 2nd round. And he is not NBA ready yet, and needs 1 more season.
Next year if he is part of a NIT championship, deep NCAA run, he would probably have semi good chance to go somewhere between #14 pick of FIRST round to last pick of FIRST round, and get a guaranteed contract, and BIG TIME LIFE CHANGING MONEY.
Also since Gueye, WSU had a semi bad end to season, instead of a AWESOME ending of season, then that COMBINED, with the above factors, could factor into Gueye returning.
If Gueye, WSU had had a AWESOME end to the season, then Gueye would, might probably not return.
4. WSU's Frontline is a lot better then people think, even if Gueye were to not stay.
Without Gueye WSU would have.
1 Jackson 2. Jaki. 3. Diongue or Chinyelu. 4. JC Transfer CLUFF, 5. Hamon Crespin, 6. Jack Wilson.
That's still a pretty AWESOME, DEEP, FRONT COURT.
IF Gueye stays, WSU would have the BEST Frontcourt in PAC 12, and one of the BEST frontcourts in AMERICA.
Also some of you are low balling Chinyelu.
Chinyelu is a HIGHEST ENDED 4 STAR, and lowest ended 5 star, according to a couple, few recruit ranking services, and is a 4.5 star.
In ALL of WSU history, only Parade All American #2 ranked recruit Stuart House under Raveling, is the ONLY WSU recruit rated higher then Chinyelu.
Chinyelu is considered one of the TOP 10 BEST INTERNATIONAL BIG MAN recruits in the nation, and either the best or one of the best 1,2,3,4 recruits, players to come out of Africa, and the NBA Global Academy system.
The last player to come out of NBA Global Academy Africa, as highly ranked as Chinyelu, was a NBA LOTTERY PICK.
CHINYELU is about 7-1+ with a 7-7 wingspan, that 250 pounds
He is comparable to how Shaq, Tim Duncan, Minute Bol, Shawn Bradley, etc, were coming out of High Highschool.
He Chinyelu has NBA ATHLETICISM. He has NBA upside, potential.
The only thing stopping Chinyelu from doing a Kevin Garnet, etc, is he is SEMI SOMEWHAT SEMI RAW, and needs development.
The only way Chinyelu doesn't go NBA after his SOPHMORE, Junior Season, senior season is if he PISSES his ON PAPER POTENTIAL down the toilet.
And because of all the above, almost all the blue bloods like Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, North Carolina, etc, wanted Chinyelu, and Smith BEAT OUT them, for Chinyelu
So with all that in mind it is LOW BALLING Chinyelu to say, question his impact, say he is not going to do much his freshman year, not get very many minutes, say he is not ready.
That could be true IF HE PISSES DOWN the toilet.
But until, if that happens then can assume that Chinyelu will do somewhere between ok to really good.
As such he is probably the 3rd best WSU big , behind only Jackson, Jaki, if Gueye doesn't stay.
If Gueye Stays, then Chinyelu is 4th best behind Gueye, Jackson, Jaki.
5. WSU should win about 19-23 games in regular season, 12-8 in conference, 1,2 PAC 12 tourny wins, NCAA 2nd Round, 23,24,25,26 total wins after season over, IF Gueye does not stay.
If Gueye stays, then WSU should win about 21, 22,23,24,25 games in regular season, 13-7, 14-6, 15-5 in conference, 2nd, 3rd in conference, 2,3,4 PAC 12 tourny wins, NCAA Sweet 16, Elite 8, Final 4, 25, 26, 27, 28 total wins, after season over.
If Injuries, and Gueye does not stay, then WSU gets 18+ wins, 11-9, 12-8 in conference. 1 PAC 12 win, NCAA/NIT bubble, If NCAA, 1st round elimination, 2nd round at best, if NIT, then NIT final 2.
If Injuries and if Gueye stays, then 19,20,21,22 wins, 12-8,13-7, in conference, 1,2 PAC 12 tourny wins, NCAA bubble into NCAA, 2nd Round, Sweet 16, 23,24,25 total wins after season over.
If Injuries, an or if Gueye doesn't stay, then Knee Jerker Nega COUGS will whine, complain over a 1st round elimination in NCAA to team that shouldn't be in NCAA.
6. Smith is WSU bball's version of Mike Leach as far as both Leach, Smith, both win games they probably shouldn't, and lose games they shouldn't. And like Leach usually won 7,8 games, and only once won 11+ games, Smith is a 17,18,19,20 win, 11-9,12-8, NCAA, NIT BUBBLE TEAM(Like winning 7,8 in football), and Smith's high point, ceiling is 20,21,22,23 wins, 12-8,13-7,14-6, NCAA bid(going 11-2 Alamo bowl like Leach), which Smith will probably hit, get, achieve that ceiling next season.
While what Smith, Leach do is ok,good, there are some NEGA COUGS that not ok with Smith, Leach.
The thing they don't understand, is that the only WSU coaches to have done as good as Smith, Leach, is Bennet, Raveling, Sampson, Price.
Smith's, Leach's, Bennet's, Raveling's, Sampson's, Price's, those kind of coaches are not a regular occurrence at WSU.
And as such, Nega COUGS shouldn't bitch, whine, complain, knee jerk over such coaches having the occasional bad games.
Even good coaches have bad games, especially when their best players like Gueye are injured, and playing against NCAA tourny level teams like EWU in the NIT.
A lot of that has been covered, thru some good reminder comments
1. WSU lost 7,8,9 KEY players from last year's 23 WIN NIT FINAL FOUR TEAM BETWEEN, graduation, transfers, NBA D League, INJURIES to Jaki, Rice, Jackson.
Now a lot of that was replaced with awesome pieces, but it was going to take time for those pieces to jell, develop chemistry, play together, learn to win, etc, EVEN IF THEY WERE TO BE HEALTHY, UNINJURED.
All the injuries either slowed down, prevented that process.
2. Only Smith, Bennet, Sampson, Raveling, have had A. 4,5 seasons of 500, winning seasons, combined with B. 2 back to back 500, winning conference records(Smith was 11-9 back to back), C. 2 Straight BACK TO BACK NIT+ tournaments.
The Goal post for on Smith have constantly been moved, when Smith met the goal post. 1st, after E Kent's DUMPSTER fire, and almost losing whole team, when Smith went 500 with that dumpster fire, the goal post was moved.
Then Smith went, had back to back 500 record. Still not enough. Goal post moved to 500 conference record, PAC 12 tourny wins, NIT, NCAA's. Smith gets 23 total wins, 11-9 record, PAC 12 tourny wins, NIT FINAL FOUR, goal post moved to NCAA's. Smith despite losing 7,8,9 KEY players from NIT team, despite INJURIES, etc, Smith MIRACULOUSLY wins 17 games, 11-9 conference, A PAC 12 tourny win, NIT, BUT that got INVALIDATED by a EWU team that SHOULD have won their conference, gotten a NCAA bid, that beat WSU by a CLOSE score in a CLOSE game. And the goal post gets moved to NCAA tourny, and when Smith gets that by getting 24 wins, 13-7 in conference, 1,2,3 PAC 12 tourny wins, NCAA bid. And when Smith loses by 1 point in quadruple overtime in first round to a team that shouldn't be in NCAA tourny, then all the NEGA COUGS will KNEE JERK again, and they will move the goal post again, and in their eyes, no matter what Smith does, it will never be enough, and held to a higher standard then all other WSU coaches.
3. Gueye is 50/50 on whether he comes back or not. Gueye not doing much in post season, is NOT going to help Gueye move up draft boards. At best Gueye is about 37 to 40 to 43 in 2nd round. And he is not NBA ready yet, and needs 1 more season.
Next year if he is part of a NIT championship, deep NCAA run, he would probably have semi good chance to go somewhere between #14 pick of FIRST round to last pick of FIRST round, and get a guaranteed contract, and BIG TIME LIFE CHANGING MONEY.
Also since Gueye, WSU had a semi bad end to season, instead of a AWESOME ending of season, then that COMBINED, with the above factors, could factor into Gueye returning.
If Gueye, WSU had had a AWESOME end to the season, then Gueye would, might probably not return.
4. WSU's Frontline is a lot better then people think, even if Gueye were to not stay.
Without Gueye WSU would have.
1 Jackson 2. Jaki. 3. Diongue or Chinyelu. 4. JC Transfer CLUFF, 5. Hamon Crespin, 6. Jack Wilson.
That's still a pretty AWESOME, DEEP, FRONT COURT.
IF Gueye stays, WSU would have the BEST Frontcourt in PAC 12, and one of the BEST frontcourts in AMERICA.
Also some of you are low balling Chinyelu.
Chinyelu is a HIGHEST ENDED 4 STAR, and lowest ended 5 star, according to a couple, few recruit ranking services, and is a 4.5 star.
In ALL of WSU history, only Parade All American #2 ranked recruit Stuart House under Raveling, is the ONLY WSU recruit rated higher then Chinyelu.
Chinyelu is considered one of the TOP 10 BEST INTERNATIONAL BIG MAN recruits in the nation, and either the best or one of the best 1,2,3,4 recruits, players to come out of Africa, and the NBA Global Academy system.
The last player to come out of NBA Global Academy Africa, as highly ranked as Chinyelu, was a NBA LOTTERY PICK.
CHINYELU is about 7-1+ with a 7-7 wingspan, that 250 pounds
He is comparable to how Shaq, Tim Duncan, Minute Bol, Shawn Bradley, etc, were coming out of High Highschool.
He Chinyelu has NBA ATHLETICISM. He has NBA upside, potential.
The only thing stopping Chinyelu from doing a Kevin Garnet, etc, is he is SEMI SOMEWHAT SEMI RAW, and needs development.
The only way Chinyelu doesn't go NBA after his SOPHMORE, Junior Season, senior season is if he PISSES his ON PAPER POTENTIAL down the toilet.
And because of all the above, almost all the blue bloods like Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, North Carolina, etc, wanted Chinyelu, and Smith BEAT OUT them, for Chinyelu
So with all that in mind it is LOW BALLING Chinyelu to say, question his impact, say he is not going to do much his freshman year, not get very many minutes, say he is not ready.
That could be true IF HE PISSES DOWN the toilet.
But until, if that happens then can assume that Chinyelu will do somewhere between ok to really good.
As such he is probably the 3rd best WSU big , behind only Jackson, Jaki, if Gueye doesn't stay.
If Gueye Stays, then Chinyelu is 4th best behind Gueye, Jackson, Jaki.
5. WSU should win about 19-23 games in regular season, 12-8 in conference, 1,2 PAC 12 tourny wins, NCAA 2nd Round, 23,24,25,26 total wins after season over, IF Gueye does not stay.
If Gueye stays, then WSU should win about 21, 22,23,24,25 games in regular season, 13-7, 14-6, 15-5 in conference, 2nd, 3rd in conference, 2,3,4 PAC 12 tourny wins, NCAA Sweet 16, Elite 8, Final 4, 25, 26, 27, 28 total wins, after season over.
If Injuries, and Gueye does not stay, then WSU gets 18+ wins, 11-9, 12-8 in conference. 1 PAC 12 win, NCAA/NIT bubble, If NCAA, 1st round elimination, 2nd round at best, if NIT, then NIT final 2.
If Injuries and if Gueye stays, then 19,20,21,22 wins, 12-8,13-7, in conference, 1,2 PAC 12 tourny wins, NCAA bubble into NCAA, 2nd Round, Sweet 16, 23,24,25 total wins after season over.
If Injuries, an or if Gueye doesn't stay, then Knee Jerker Nega COUGS will whine, complain over a 1st round elimination in NCAA to team that shouldn't be in NCAA.
6. Smith is WSU bball's version of Mike Leach as far as both Leach, Smith, both win games they probably shouldn't, and lose games they shouldn't. And like Leach usually won 7,8 games, and only once won 11+ games, Smith is a 17,18,19,20 win, 11-9,12-8, NCAA, NIT BUBBLE TEAM(Like winning 7,8 in football), and Smith's high point, ceiling is 20,21,22,23 wins, 12-8,13-7,14-6, NCAA bid(going 11-2 Alamo bowl like Leach), which Smith will probably hit, get, achieve that ceiling next season.
While what Smith, Leach do is ok,good, there are some NEGA COUGS that not ok with Smith, Leach.
The thing they don't understand, is that the only WSU coaches to have done as good as Smith, Leach, is Bennet, Raveling, Sampson, Price.
Smith's, Leach's, Bennet's, Raveling's, Sampson's, Price's, those kind of coaches are not a regular occurrence at WSU.
And as such, Nega COUGS shouldn't bitch, whine, complain, knee jerk over such coaches having the occasional bad games.
Even good coaches have bad games, especially when their best players like Gueye are injured, and playing against NCAA tourny level teams like EWU in the NIT.
