Eklund
- Thread starter longtimecoug
- Start date
Wow, just when I thought literally EVERYONE had closed the book on "Wulff + OL= sack of turds", someone throws another excuse log on the fire.
This team is 7-3. Again, Pullman has become more appealing to competent OL. Probably about PullMagic and not switching coaches.
This team is 7-3. Again, Pullman has become more appealing to competent OL. Probably about PullMagic and not switching coaches.
And you let us know when it is ok to just line up 3 linemen instead.
I'd rather have Fresno's line than no line at all (or whatever Wulff was doing).
Nice try Wulffui...The discussion was about the history of not getting lineman, and it wasn't just one coach, but other coaches who had problems getting lineman in the program.
In terms of oline coaches, we have had good ones over the years. Certainly with the credentials of Clay M. So I am not positive it was about coaching either.
My comment about lack of lineman on the west coast was about one year. Not multiple years and I was simply clarifying the claim by backing it up with what other coaches said about that one recruiting cycle.
Not every year is a banner year. Look at 2014. How many recruits did we take then? Two? We are starting three lineman that were either in the program or committed to the program before Leach ever took over. Two were walkons, so the point being is recruiting is more than how many offers it goes to evaluation.
Wulff missed horribly in 2008. 2009 wasn't much better and he was fired. There isn't an excuse. By not getting lineman in immediately it hurt any chance he may have had. Guess what, he is gone and looks to be volunteering at Iowa State, who seem to have found an offensive rhythm since they fired their offensive coordinator Mark Mangino.
We took 3, and arguably 4 in 2014. Krepz, Dillard & Evers, then the plan, when he was recruited was to grow Begg into an OL.
And we are not starting 3 that were in the program or committed prior to Leach. Ecklund was in the program and Middleton was committed. Joe Dahl transferred to WSU in January of '12, more than a month after Wulff was fired.
Bahahahahah. Missed horribly...Wulff was terrible beyond "miss" he had no idea what he was doing. We had 3 scholarship lineman when Leach rolled in. He was incredibly bad.
And then..."Iowa State seems to have found an offensive rhythm"
Bahhaha....
They beat Texas who is absolutely terrible this year... (This is the same Texas who has won 4 games this year and is also on their 2nd OC for the year)
Offensive rhythm...beating a terrible Texas team...and found an offensive rhythm.
Yeah Wulff knows rhythm he salsa'd his way out of the USF OC job in just 1 year after taking USF to such great heights as
#121 in total offense, and #119 in scoring offense
1 year after the purging of the rythmn master himself
#58 in total offense #62 scoring offense and bowl eligible...
I mean come on....honestly....I swear I don't know if you actually believe the ridiculous stuff you say.
Iowa State will not be making a bowl game this year...which now adds to the grand total for the rhythm master
6 seasons at the FBS level without a bowl game.
4 as Head Coach
1 as OC (USF)
1 as unpaid offense intern underSturdy
Out of curiosity, I looked at the NFL draft results (2012-2015) as those would have been the players recruited while Wulff was coach.
2012: Jason Slowey (Western Oregon), Nate Potter (BSU)
2013: David Quesesnberry (SJSU), Ryan Jensen (Southern CO)
2014: Joe Bitonio (Nevada), Matt Paridis (BSU), Mitchell Van Dyk (Port St), Charles Leno (BSU)
2015: Ty Sambrailo (CSU), Terry Poole (SDSU), Cody Wichmann (Fres St)
Those were all "west coast" guys who went to traditionally "lesser" programs (maybe I shouldn't include BSU in that).
I assume I could look at the All WAC & All MWC teams from '10-'14 and find plenty of guys we wouldn't have minded having as well.
2012: Jason Slowey (Western Oregon), Nate Potter (BSU)
2013: David Quesesnberry (SJSU), Ryan Jensen (Southern CO)
2014: Joe Bitonio (Nevada), Matt Paridis (BSU), Mitchell Van Dyk (Port St), Charles Leno (BSU)
2015: Ty Sambrailo (CSU), Terry Poole (SDSU), Cody Wichmann (Fres St)
Those were all "west coast" guys who went to traditionally "lesser" programs (maybe I shouldn't include BSU in that).
I assume I could look at the All WAC & All MWC teams from '10-'14 and find plenty of guys we wouldn't have minded having as well.
Wulff's problem in '08 was that he apparently didn't believe in poaching. Any coach worth their salt would have gone directly to SDSU, Nevada, SJSU & Fresno's commit list and take what they could get. Heck, that's what Leach did and it netted us Gabe Marks, Kache Palacio & Robert Lewis. Where is this program without that SMU raid?
Instead, Wulff went to the uncommitted player pool and gave scholarship to about 20 guys who never contributed a thing.
Then, and I will still never understand this, in '09, he actually had some momentum, and won a few recruiting battles (Long, Simone, Nolan Washington, Atofau), yet only enrolled 18 guys. How are you not taking 25 in that class? Heck, he should have cut out 5 from the '08 class and tried to sign 30 in '09.
Those 2 classes were his doom, because the '10 class was actually pretty darn good (Fullington, Rodgers, Halliday, Horton, Bucannon, Wilson, Galvin, Jacobson, Kristoff, Pole, Cooper & Butler-Booker, although he never qualified). Had he strung together 3 of those classes in a row, he'd probably still be coaching.
In '11, the damage was done and the recruiting trail was insurmountable. He wasn't winning any battles with his abysmal record, had to take some academic fliers, and had to take too many JC linemen to make up for the neglect of that position from his previous classes.
Instead, Wulff went to the uncommitted player pool and gave scholarship to about 20 guys who never contributed a thing.
Then, and I will still never understand this, in '09, he actually had some momentum, and won a few recruiting battles (Long, Simone, Nolan Washington, Atofau), yet only enrolled 18 guys. How are you not taking 25 in that class? Heck, he should have cut out 5 from the '08 class and tried to sign 30 in '09.
Those 2 classes were his doom, because the '10 class was actually pretty darn good (Fullington, Rodgers, Halliday, Horton, Bucannon, Wilson, Galvin, Jacobson, Kristoff, Pole, Cooper & Butler-Booker, although he never qualified). Had he strung together 3 of those classes in a row, he'd probably still be coaching.
In '11, the damage was done and the recruiting trail was insurmountable. He wasn't winning any battles with his abysmal record, had to take some academic fliers, and had to take too many JC linemen to make up for the neglect of that position from his previous classes.
You can if you want. I didn't say it, you did. As for WHY Wulff neglected the line, I don't know, but he did.
Fab, Wulff Sucked. Horrible coach. Horrible recruiter. Matter of fact he should be banned from trying to accomplish anything in his life because he is the ultimate failure.
Now with that out of the way, how does that change the general premise of the discussion about other coaches that don't include Wulff struggling to get lineman?
Shows how impressive this coach is to overcome a "historical" handicap at the school and stock the position, with even more promise going forward, while noting that he started from a place that, even having "struggled" at that position traditionally as a program- was laughable. 260 a man.
It should say something about the talent of a former BCS power 5 conference head coach if he cannot find paying work at ANY college football program.
To 99% of people, not only does it say something, it's very clear WHAT is being said.
But 1%, they choose to remember... nay, imagine- that there were really good parts.
Other coaches had difficulties. Wulff just flat out sucked. There is a difference. Recruiting two HS OLs per class was just plain stupid.
Fab, do you really believe fresno's line is better than Goetz (Leach recruit) Fullington (NFL practice squad) Rodgers (drafted and cut) Dahl, Ecklund, Bosch, and Jacobson, Spitz, Forbes?
Second, to your point about lineman playing at a lesser level, yeah, coaches miss players all the time. A four year starter at Arizona at cb had a brother on our campus and Kenny Greene didn't think he was worthy of a scholie. He was an all conference player for I believe two years, and like I said a four year starter.
Do you not believe I or anyone else could go to a website, look at 2012 recruits from lower tier schools and find players at DB who would be more productive than say Alex Jackson, Feddie Davey, Dockery, or more recent years with Porter, Griffin, and even D Brown?
I think it is simply asinine to even remotely think any coach who has been here didn't recruit the oline.
Fab, do you really believe fresno's line is better than Goetz (Leach recruit) Fullington (NFL practice squad) Rodgers (drafted and cut) Dahl, Ecklund, Bosch, and Jacobson, Spitz, Forbes?
Second, to your point about lineman playing at a lesser level, yeah, coaches miss players all the time. A four year starter at Arizona at cb had a brother on our campus and Kenny Greene didn't think he was worthy of a scholie. He was an all conference player for I believe two years, and like I said a four year starter.
Do you not believe I or anyone else could go to a website, look at 2012 recruits from lower tier schools and find players at DB who would be more productive than say Alex Jackson, Feddie Davey, Dockery, or more recent years with Porter, Griffin, and even D Brown?
I think it is simply asinine to even remotely think any coach who has been here didn't recruit the oline.
Um, missing onAntoine Cason was awful. Was talked about on the boards for years. Like Wulff, the staff decided to take no one instead. The differences however are vast. If you don't take CBs your defense just sucks. If you don't take OLs, your offense sucks and your QB is going to get killed.
Agreed, so when you go to a Rose Bowl and recruit two hs players Byrd and Foster, and two JC players Afif and Loo, and you wind up with one never playing (Foster), Loo leaving and Afif was marginal. So in the year when you cap off a three ten win season getting two JC lineman, both busts and two hs lineman, one bust, it is a bad way to start the next four to five years. That large class is followed up by three, Vickers, roof and Rowlands. One played then quit before his senior year, one had a drinking problem, and the other never stepped foot on the field. Then two years removed from the most successful run they recruit three more, Alfred, Eppelle and Hunter. Eppelle was grayshirted. Alfred was very good, Hunter was another JC bust, Eppelle at best was marginal.
That large class of three was followed up by three more of Hannam Maxwell and Bush. Bush never made it to campus, Maxwell had issues with Hicks, and Hannam started his freshman year.
It was the following year of Ayers, Freitag, roxas, Guerra (recruited as a DT) and Lesuma. Ayers and Freitag had to hang it up because of injury, Roxas missed a whole year because of a blood disorder, Guerra was solid and Lesuma had two years of eligibility.
While Wulff sucked, worst ever, can't hold down a job and is not worthy of cleaning my gutters, it isn't like after a great three year run lineman were flocking to WSU. Matter of fact, missing out of recruits and then having to go the way of JC players really caused roster issues down the road.
It doesn't say anything more than he doesn't have the connections. He like Mike Walker, and several other coaches of not going elsewhere and expanding their working circle. People in that profession may think he is the worst coach of all time. Or he simply doesn't have the contacts. Mike Walker coached for two coaches in college. Both from the same tree and he hasn't worked in college since 2007.
What about two of the three guys Leach fired. Both of those coaches are not working.
Again, Harbaugh seemed to like him enough to make him the guy to get him coffee. also thought enough to recommend him to Taggart for the oc job.
Paul Rhodes doesn't mind the free labor. What happens if he gets hired on at ISU. Does that mean he can coach or that he is simply charity?
I never read anything in coaches being unemployed like that. Part of the gig.
I know...the oline that Doba and Price typically recruited looked like the numbers Leach is able to get.
Obviously that excuses Wulff's total failure at OL. Obviously. But least we got to hear about the lack of linemen on the west coast. Shocking that Wulff's magic eye for talent was not able to see something that other schools were to see in all those lineme Fab listed.
DB's are a dime a dozen. Say there are 100 d1 players in the greater Seattle community. How many olineman are there to choose from and how many db's?
Must be the writing. Whoever said it excuses him. He was fired. And it was you who brought up the lack of lineman and I clarified that it was one recruiting cycle. It was something other Pac 10 coaches said at the time, and it is something that was said on the Seattle radio. That was not every year, it was one cycle. But glad you brought it up again.
Well ask someone in the business, that was in the Pac 10 at the time he coached instead of relying on numbers. Do you really believe Harbaugh was simply moved by his personal story.
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No thanks, I'll take the overwhelming factual evidence instead.
If the head coach at a P5 school for four years, is, by your assessment, out of coaching for NOT HAVING COACHING CONTACTS, well, jiminy... that's just another thing to add to the list of things he was terrible at. I mean, wouldn't "having coaching contacts" be a bare minimum expectation for a coach?
Wulff Failure List:
#631: failed to network with other coaches
Leach et al also had another commit who later opted for Oregon. I believe we currently have 13 or so scholarship linemen available to play now. Bigge-Duren, Davis Perrott, Amosa Sakaria, and Noah Osur-Myers are redshirting. We lose Eklund and Dahl, but we'll still have a net increase of bodies at O-line. Not sure how that fits with the ed nauseam narrative.
And the staff has brought in some interesting walk-ons (Mack Hopkins 6-5, 302, Connell; Michael Cole, 6-3, 295, Olympia; Chris Paz, 6-4, 305, Bellingham).
Makes as much sense as anything- if it was because he was just so great a coach, he'd be receiving a paycheck from the University of Michigan.
First, not sure there is a "great coach" anymore. They are a bad season away from getting fired. Coaches seem to have a different barometer who they think is good and who they don't.
Yep, HArbaugh hired him to fetch coffee or felt sorry for him.
Fits in perfect...I said from the day he was hired where he will make the biggest inroads will be on the oline.
More history revised, as usual. You also said this team would finish 5-7 at best, and you predicted a .500 team next year.
