Sounds like a TE is coming back to Pullman and will be used in the air raid.
Eric Morris interview
- Thread starter chugspig
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Sounds like a TE is coming back to Pullman and will be used in the air raid.
A good TE does. Those are rare and a TE who isn't an elite pass catcher makes your offense a lot easier to stop. They help the run game but you need 5 OL who are good run blockers to get that benefit.
We need a receiver, QB and RB coach which he’s probably making the hire. I’m sure the allure of the job was Dickert isn’t going to meddle with his offense and give him complete control.
That was awesome, thanks for posting! What an incredible run he's had, and he's coming back!
You can still run the same sets………..just gives you more options and something else the other team has to prepare for
Google: “Justin Lohrenz hudl”
Watch his tight end film. He is a bone crushing blocker. He can catch and run. He will start at TE for WSU for years.
Watch the film.
I agree Biggs. Dude is a beast. I didn’t think you were a fan of the TE though, what gives?
We didn’t utilize a TE so that position basically didn’t exist before. New staff, new philosophy, this guy could play TE in HS he absolutely could move there, especially if he’s buried on the depth chart on D.
Im not. The reason Im not is because the $ for TEs has to come from somewhere. Ask yourself, are those scholarships coming from the QBs??? Nope. Are they gonna cut $ from the RBs??? Nope. What about receivers??? No chance.
If you want tight ends you’re cutting scholarships from the OL.
One of the best things Leach did was fund the OL. Some schools can get away with taking 3-4 OL per class. WSU isnt one of those schools. You take 5 per class or you will lose down the road.
Also, how do they use them? Is it a multiple formation offense now? Will they be rotating kids in and out of the game? If the TE position gets 50% of the snaps, how much $ do you commit to a position that plays 50% on game day? You could have 4 guys on scholarship to play 1 position that gets 50% of the snaps. Not a wise investment. Especially if it means you just crushed your depth and development at OL… a position that is half the offense, plays 100% of the snaps, is high collision and has injuries.
If you want tight ends you look around the field at practice and make some backups tight ends. Kids that aren’t getting reps as starters need to contribute somewhere. Make those guys tight ends. But actually signing them???? Not a fan.
Fuc$ing fail. Move him to TE and watch him go from backup DT to starting TE scoring touchdowns and making blocks.
Mike Jinks the current rb coach at USC coached w Morris at Tech from 2013 to 2015. Obviously McGuire just worked w him last year.
Awesome. A hybrid of elements of Mike Price's 1 TE, 1 RB, 3 WR's, spread, 64.5% pass, and 34.5% run offense, pistol offense, run and shoot, etc, into a Modified Air Raid.
The TE can either help pass block, run block, or do either a fake run or pass block, or quick pass block release to a quick slant, cross, shovel pass, screen pass, 8 to 16 yard middle vertical seam pass.
And the TE can help seal the outside edge on a outside off tackle run to the left or right.
As long as a RB is speedy, the 2,3,4 DL, and 1,2 linebackers will be sealed inside covering the 4 to 6.5 to 9 yard inside route by slot receiver, an or rushing the passer, that they won't be able to get outside, to stop the outside run.
Max would have had a field day with that.
And the outside run will open up then inside run.
Just run the ball about 34%,35%,36% of the time. And run a mix of quick hitters, traps, counter gaps, draws, delayed draws, up middle, right, left, outside runs, by semi speedy RB, and 3 to 5 to 7 runs by QB, etc, and that will open up the pass and open up the run more.
The RB's, WR's, TE, QB will be so hard to defend. The defense would have to defend every blade of grass, and would have zones, holes, space that could be attacked.
No wonder Eric Morris's offense was so potent, and hard to defend at IW.
Even tho it's only 1 TE, gona have to get a semi fast, not slow TE that can pass block, run block, run good routes, learn the offense, have good chemistry with QB OLine tackle, WR, is a good possession pass catching receiver, is about at least 6ft 3 in, 239 to 243 pounds, can jump high, etc.
Troy Bienneman, comes to mind.
As far as scholly allocation. 3,4 OL, 1,2 TE, and can have RB's, WR's, 240 OL, 229 pound safeties, outside LB's develop into a TE.
That should still be good enough to get good enough OL, an or develop good enough OL, and decent, ok OL depth, and good enough TE's.
Remember only need 1 TE to start and 1 back up TE to occasionally sub in, and 1 emergency TE in case the starter or back up gets injured, so 3,4 TE's on the roster, or 2,3 TE's with a RB, WR, Outside LB, Safety, undersized OL, etc, that can be a emergency TE.
And can either find, get a HS TE, or use the transfer Portal. I hope that use Transfer Portal, JC transfer, etc, for a TE, and find, get, develop some TE's. By the 2nd year, 3rd year at latest, should hopefully have 2,3,4 TE's with at least 1,2,3 of them being good enough to make the offense work.
And even if don't have both good enough, and enough TE's, they can just go 4 WR, until they have the TE's to go 1 TE, and 3 WR.
And a TE can be a QB's, and JDL's best friend on pass plays
I'm really excited to see a modified hybrid Air Raid offense with 1 TE, 3 WR, and what it can do at WSU.
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I see what your saying Biggs, but I disagree in that I think WSU can take 4 OL each year and be fine, and take 1 TE most years, and 2 TE's in a couple, few, some years, occasionally, once in a while.
You only need 1 starting TE that is good, and 1 semi good, ok back up TE, and 1 emergency TE, in case of injury, and can use JC transfers, and Transfer Portal and RB's, WR, outside LB, Safety, undersized DE, undersized 243 pound OL, etc, that has the potential to be a semi ok TE, that buried on positional depth charts.
Mike Price only took a mix of 2,3,4 OL to get his TE's, that why he struggled at OL.
If you have a good coach like Erickson, Price, Leach, who has a good eye for talent, who is a good evaluator, developer, recruiter, etc, that coach can get 4, 2.5 star, 3 star, 3.5 star, maybe 1, 4 star MIX, and a MIX of HS, JC, Grad Transfers, Transfer Portal, and BE JUST FINE at OL, even at Little Ole Poor Ole WSU.
What you said USED to be true at WSU.
But WSU has lost its innocence now, and isn't Poor Ole Little Ole WSU anymore.
And with JC's, Grad Transfers, Transfer Portal, etc, and the explosion of that, that between HD, and that, there really shouldn't be a problem for WSU to get 4 OL a year, that are good enough, and that should be good enough to have sufficient starters, depth at the OL.
And the Air Raid system is especially designed to where its easier to get 4 OL a year, and have that work out.
If WSU had a different system, and bad coaches, then yeah 4 OL might not be enough, and might need 5.
4 OL per year, a mix of 2.5 star, 3 star, 3.5 star, and maybe 1 4 star, etc, and a mix of HS, JC, Grad Transfers, Transfer Portal, etc, can semi easily be done, should semi easily be done, and semi should be semi enough.
This is NOT 1970 to 1980 to 1990 to 2000 where 4 OL would not have been enough at WSU.
This is 2021 where 4 OL is good enough at WSU.
And Eric Morris, Dickert, will probably prove you wrong about this Biggs.
Time will tell.
The number is 5 OL per class. You have to start with numbers to end with numbers.
They’ve taken 7 OL in the last 2 classes. Two are in the portal. Guys will get hurt, transfer, flunk out, drunk out, not pan out.
Would you take 4 guys to play WR, QB and RB? Is that good? How bout 3? No. Why not? That’s what has been suggested.
The OL is half the offense and when the OL plays well it will cover up the flaws in the perimeter offensive positions.
The past decade has been the best, most consistent winning WSU football ever. It was no coincidence that it happened because Leach shoved $ into the OL.
Wanna tell yourself a bullshit story to justify why less than 5?? Go ahead. It’s bullshit.
Rolo only took 2,3 OL 1 year and 3,4 this year, and 6,7 OL overall.
Your right that that's not good. That's even not good enough for the Air Raid. It's worse for the Run and Shoot.
But 8, in a 2 year period instead of 6,7, in a 2 year period, and 4 per year, instead of 2,3,3.5 per year, is good enough for the Air Raid.
5 per year might probably be need in a run and shoot.
Since have 1 TE, and WIDE SPLITS, and since pass blocking most of the time, and since have 1 RB, and 1 TE to help pass block, 4 OL per year, instead of only 2,3, 3.5 per year, and instead of 5 per year, should be enough and probably will be enough.
If WSU was still the Poor Ole Little Ole WSU of the 1970 to 1980 to 1990, etc, then WSU would need 5,6 OL per year.
The Air Raid is designed where 4 OL per year is enough.
Also part of the reason why Leach took 5 OL, is because he got lower ranked OL(2,3,2.5 stars(59 to 63 ranked recruiting classes) then Price, Erickson. Dickert can, should be able to recruit better then 59 to 63, and should be able to get higher rated OL then Leach, as Leach was not a good recruiter(as far as getting 3,3.5 star OL,etc)
Also I am NOT saying to take 3,4 TE's, 3,4 RB's, 3,4 QB's per year
2,3 TE's is enough per year, since can turn a RB, WR, DE, OLB, Safety, etc, into a TE.
2,3 WR per year is enough. 2 WR per year if gona start 3 WR, and 3 WR per year if gona start 4 WR.
4 for OL in Air Raid.
2 RB per year.
1,2,1.5 QB per year.
That can, should work
You are correct that we need to concentrate on OL and get as many good ones as we can. That said, it's more important to get 3-5 good OL each year than worry about a bunch of bodies that aren't really good enough to get the job done. For a guy who thinks he knows a lot about football....every once in a while, you get on a rant and refuse to be objective.
You are absolutely correct that the OL is 5/11 of our offense. However, when you think about how often you sub in players during a game......you start to realize that the OL almost never SUBS in a game unless there is a an injury. It's very common for 2 running backs to share carries. In any given game, we'll have 5-6 wide receivers participate in the game. We might sub in an OL in a game once or twice but again, it's uncommon for subs on the OL.
So, the reality is that in terms of the numbers that play in any given game, OL participation is closer to 1/3rd of our offensive players....not half. The reality is that if you are taking 5 OL in a class, you would need to take 9 of 10 of the other position groups to be equivalent in terms of participation and impact. You may not know this, but most years, WSU has been limited to take 25 scholarship players per year. It's kind of a long standing rule. The portal is obviously changing things, but when judging based on past rules.....you have to look at the rules at the time. Now again, you may not be aware, but WSU also fields defense that plays 11 guys as well. In any given year, we only have 12-13 scholarships on average to give to the offense as result.
What all of this means is that for the numbers to work out, WSU has to average just over 4 OL recruits per year for us to be really balanced on our personnel. If we lose players to injury, grades or the portal, you have to evaluate whether you pick up an extra guy. Years ago, when arguing about this same subject, I took the time to count OL recruits at all of the Pac-12 schools and found at the time that most schools recruited 3-4 scholarship OL guys per year and relied on walk-ons to fill the gap. For us, if we are hitting 4 guys most years and offering walk-on opportunities for 2-3 guys per year......we are going to be fine. We don't need 5 OL every year unless we are doing a sh!t job of evaluating players.
I agree that you have to prioritize the trenches. But I also agree that a good TE can be a great tool on an offense, and I’d rather recruit a 6’5” athletic TE project than a 5th doughy OLineman with big sky talent whose not likely to crack the two deep. A legit tight end can mask some deficiencies on an OLine - they can chip the shit out of guys like thibedaex, or the can keep a DC in limbo on sending pressure if there’s nobody on the defense that can matchup with the TE in coverage.
It’s not good enough. Don’t screw up the blueprint. WSU finally has some consistent success after 100 years of losing and now it’s time to change???? Nooooo!!!!
Remember when WSU went to 2 Rose Bowla in 6 years and then Doba chnaged the offense and it was a decade before WSU got back to a bowl??? Yeah. Don’t fix what isn’t broken.
You don’t use an OL. You use a DE that isn’t on the field on defense.
Im well aware of what a TE can do. I played the position. WSU has a TE on campus now.
Like everything else, it depends on coaching and talent evaluation. There are a lot more hybrid football "athletes" today than there were 20 years ago. Kids who don't have the frames to bulk up to 290lbs and who can't run will enough to play WR at the FBS level.
Good coaching will continue to bring in big kids for the OL, but should still be able to nab one or two kids who can make the transition to TE.
Good coaching will continue to bring in big kids for the OL, but should still be able to nab one or two kids who can make the transition to TE.
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2, 3 TEs per year? Nooooo.
I'm with Biggs. If you've got someone on the roster that could maybe see the field as a TE, then ok. Investing schollies in it? No thanks.
Look at the history of the TE at WSU. How many schollies were invested to get Jed Collins, Bienneman and...Pat Beach? That's a lot of offers for not a lot of very good players.
While I don’t necessarily disagree with main point, you are leaving out some pretty decent TEs in WSUs history.
Your list most notably leaves off a 3 time 1st team all conference selection.
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You can probably speak to this better than I can, but who typically coaches the TEs? Do they typically work with the WR coach? The OL coach? Is there a dedicated TE coach? Seems like the cost to roster a TE is not only the scholarships, but the investment in coaching and practice reps as well.
All this talk about multiple offenses, using a TE, doing some stuff in the pistol, etc. We're still talking about college kids who get limited practices. You try to do too much and you end up with Jody Sears' offense.
The best tight ends play defensive end now because that is where the money is. Not sure why so many people want to fix something that is not broken. There were a lot of years with Price, Doba, and Wulff that WSU sat at home with a losing record, and one thing they had in common, they all had tight ends. 1994, one of the worst WSU offenses ever had a tight end.
Spending 1 scholly at minimum, 2 at average, 3 at most, on a TE, is NOT a big deal, if, as long as take, get 4 OL per year, year after year.
1 less OL per year, at 4 OL per year, instead of 5 per year as Flat and others have explained, is NOT a big deal.
And 1,2 times per every 3,4,5 years, you can take a 5th OL in a year, if need to, have to.
Now if your as bad as Will, in recruiting, then you need to take 5,6 OL per year.
But if your good at recruiting, evaluating, development, you can get by on 4 OL per year, and take a 5th OL as an OPTION if need to.
Bottom line is ERIC MORRIS produced the BEST OFFENSE in the nation at the FCS level at IW, with his 1 TE, modified, hybrid AIR RAID, and taking a mix of 3,4,5 OL, per year, and probably took about a mix of 1,2,3 TE per year.
Eric Morris can and will probably do the same at WSU, and will probably do just fine.
It still the AIR RAID, with a TE wrinkle, that is a semi hybrid, that has been semi modified.
And this offense of Eric Morris was the BEST in the Nation at the FCS level at IW.
Are, is the FCS, IW level, smarter, better able to implement athis kind of offense then P5, Pac 12, WSU?
No. WSU players can do it too.
Well the 1 TE, semi modified, semi hybrid AIR RAID that Eric Morris ran at IW was the BEST in the Nation and they didn't sit at home they just went to the play offs
Logan Tago and Frankie Luvu would have been monster TE's but helped the team in other ways. The offense didn't miss them.
Using someone like Lohrenz or any other player like a 6-3 Tago building themselves into a different position, yet can catch the ball and block at the TE or H-back position for the first 2 years of their career would make sense. Justin is only 255 the last time I looked. That's not a DT size and not too big to play TE/H-back. The only reason Joe Gibbs incorporated it into is offense was to help block Lawrence Taylor....THE quarterback killer. Gibbs said that they either block him or they're going to continue to lose to the Giants. The H-back came into to help block and also roll out for mainly short gains.
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