Kohberger defense takes more defeats...

[95coug]

Multiple rulings today on defense motions, pretty much all losses for them:

- The surviving roommate gets to testify, and can talk about "bushy eyebrows." If the defense wants to say she was too drunk to remember anything reliably, they have to show that on cross-examination.
- The autism diagnosis is only relevant, and can only be mentioned, if Kohberger himself testifies...which the defense has said they're not planning on.
- Vehicle experts get to testify
- State DNA experts get to testify, but can't refer to "touch DNA"
story

Really, at this point I don't think the defense is really expecting to get anything excluded. What they're doing is creating ample grounds for appeal. They want to have a raft of rulings by the trial court that can be challenged on appeal, and if any of them are found to have been prejudicial, they can get a sentence thrown out or maybe get a new trial. It's not about this judge and this trial...it's about a more sympathetic judge that they can get a different ruling from in 10 years.

 

[VandallHuskerJulie]

Lot's of activity going on down in Boise, some of which was streamed on Youtube the past week or so. It was interesting to see the defense/prosecutors spar. Also it appears (to my very non legal mind) that the judge was also a bit frustrated with the defenses constant motions about EVERYTHING.

If you want to keep up with the various motions, I've included the link.

State of Idaho v. Bryan C. Kohberger

 

[UberCougars]

I was one who was curious who was paying for his first class multi-million dollar defense and it’s the State of Idaho. Why this level of “public defense” and not your typical overworked under-experienced public defender?
Turns out that since Idaho is pursuing the death penalty they anticipate hyper-national attention to the appeals process and Idaho does not want to lose.

It’s still too creepy for me to follow the details of this case. Kudo’s to those who can.

 

[VandallHuskerJulie]

I was one who was curious who was paying for his first class multi-million dollar defense and it’s the State of Idaho. Why this level of “public defense” and not your typical overworked under-experienced public defender?
Turns out that since Idaho is pursuing the death penalty they anticipate hyper-national attention to the appeals process and Idaho does not want to lose.

It’s still too creepy for me to follow the details of this case. Kudo’s to those who can.

Hopefully the cost will be shared by the State of Idaho, not just us in Latah County. At this point the $$ issue is unclear. And as someone's life is on the line everyone wants to make sure it's a fair trial.

 

[UberCougars]

I should have said, “Public” rather than get into the weeds of the accounting.
I can’t imagine Latah County is going rogue here.

 

[Observer11]

Based on public sentiment, the good people of Kootenai and Latah County will spend their very last dime to see this SOB fry. They want Old Testament justice. The prosecution need not worry about their costs. Nary a word will be said.

The only things in my lifetime in this area that even come close to this level of outrage (said this before) are the Dylan/Shasta Groene kidnapping/murder and the South Hill Rapist.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Based on public sentiment, the good people of Kootenai and Latah County will spend their very last dime to see this SOB fry. They want Old Testament justice. The prosecution need not worry about their costs. Nary a word will be said.

The only things in my lifetime in this area that even come close to this level of outrage (said this before) are the Dylan/Shasta Groene kidnapping/murder and the South Hill Rapist.

I think it's safe to say that the state is going to find a way to fund this prosecution.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

I think it's safe to say that the state is going to find a way to fund this prosecution.

Well yeah on the prosecution costs but I don't understand why the state/county should pay one dime to defense attorneys who are going out of their way to run up their fees. What happened to "If you can't afford an attorney, one will be appointed to you"?

 

[95coug]

Well yeah on the prosecution costs but I don't understand why the state/county should pay one dime to defense attorneys who are going out of their way to run up their fees. What happened to "If you can't afford an attorney, one will be appointed to you"?

It’s in the states interest to make sure there’s a robust and highly competent defense. It greatly reduces the chances of a mistrial or a need to try him again.

 

[Stretch 74]

Multiple rulings today on defense motions, pretty much all losses for them:

- The surviving roommate gets to testify, and can talk about "bushy eyebrows." If the defense wants to say she was too drunk to remember anything reliably, they have to show that on cross-examination.
- The autism diagnosis is only relevant, and can only be mentioned, if Kohberger himself testifies...which the defense has said they're not planning on.
- Vehicle experts get to testify
- State DNA experts get to testify, but can't refer to "touch DNA"
story

Really, at this point I don't think the defense is really expecting to get anything excluded. What they're doing is creating ample grounds for appeal. They want to have a raft of rulings by the trial court that can be challenged on appeal, and if any of them are found to have been prejudicial, they can get a sentence thrown out or maybe get a new trial. It's not about this judge and this trial...it's about a more sympathetic judge that they can get a different ruling from in 10 years.

Video tracking of Kohberger, story in today's CDA Press from Idaho Statesman.

Cameras traced Bryan Kohberger, victims’ alleged route before Idaho homicides

But after further law enforcement review of surveillance cameras from more than 20 locations, prosecutors alleged the four victims were killed in a 13-minute span, between 4:07-4:20 a.m., according to recent court filings.

cdapress.com

 

[95coug]

Video tracking of Kohberger, story in today's CDA Press from Idaho Statesman.

Cameras traced Bryan Kohberger, victims’ alleged route before Idaho homicides

But after further law enforcement review of surveillance cameras from more than 20 locations, prosecutors alleged the four victims were killed in a 13-minute span, between 4:07-4:20 a.m., according to recent court filings.

cdapress.com

Saw that in one of the Idaho papers yesterday I think. Didn’t really seem like much new information. Media is just repackaging information to keep the story on page 1.

 

[VandallHuskerJulie]

Saw that in one of the Idaho papers yesterday I think. Didn’t really seem like much new information. Media is just repackaging information to keep the story on page 1.

As the trial date approaches (hopefully) the judge is going thru all the motions and ruling what can/can't be admitted as evidence, which explains the flurry of new activity. The media is reporting on this activity. Some of this information was already known (such as the videos) and some of it is new (for example, BK stopped using his debit card and only used cash after the murders).

 

[95coug]

As the trial date approaches (hopefully) the judge is going thru all the motions and ruling what can/can't be admitted as evidence, which explains the flurry of new activity. The media is reporting on this activity. Some of this information was already known (such as the videos) and some of it is new (for example, BK stopped using his debit card and only used cash after the murders).

Hadn’t heard that one (the debit card). Prosecutor is going to have to get someone to tell the jury about how common it is to see changes in behavior immediately before and after violent attacks.

 

[VandallHuskerJulie]

Hadn’t heard that one (the debit card). Prosecutor is going to have to get someone to tell the jury about how common it is to see changes in behavior immediately before and after violent attacks.

"Among the notable experts is Michael Douglass, a forensic accountant for the FBI who investigated financial transaction data for Kohberger and the four victims.

He allegedly found that Kohberger only conducted ATM withdrawals on and after the date of the homicides. Kohberger also allegedly “ceased using his debit card after November 10, 2022 whereas, prior to November 10, he had regularly used his debit card,” the court document states.

Heather and Jared Barnhart, two digital specialists with a company called Cellebrite, will testify that Kohberger’s activity on his computer and cellphone before and after the homicides are “abnormal,” the court document states."

Expert says shift occurred in Kohberger finances

 

[95coug]

"Among the notable experts is Michael Douglass, a forensic accountant for the FBI who investigated financial transaction data for Kohberger and the four victims.

He allegedly found that Kohberger only conducted ATM withdrawals on and after the date of the homicides. Kohberger also allegedly “ceased using his debit card after November 10, 2022 whereas, prior to November 10, he had regularly used his debit card,” the court document states.

Heather and Jared Barnhart, two digital specialists with a company called Cellebrite, will testify that Kohberger’s activity on his computer and cellphone before and after the homicides are “abnormal,” the court document states."

Expert says shift occurred in Kohberger finances

That’s significant. It’s extremely common among attackers (such as mass shooters) to have a shift in behavior close to the time of an attack. To me, the fact that behavior change occurred 3 days before confirms premeditation.

 

[Coug90]

That’s significant. It’s extremely common among attackers (such as mass shooters) to have a shift in behavior close to the time of an attack. To me, the fact that behavior change occurred 3 days before confirms premeditation.

What’d the consensus on this actually going to trial? Odds that he cuts a deal at this point?

 

[95coug]

What’d the consensus on this actually going to trial? Odds that he cuts a deal at this point?

At least publicly, it doesn't seem like there's much interest from either side in exploring a deal. Prosecution has been adamant that they've got their guy, and they want him dead. Period. Defense has been pretty firm on innocence...although some of their motions and legal ploys seem to hint otherwise. Right now, all the momentum seems to be toward trial. For what it's worth, I also haven't heard that the families are much interested in cutting a deal...although some have been relatively silent.

Early on, I figured the weight of information the prosecution had generated would force the defense to accept a deal just to keep him alive. That doesn't seem to have moved them, and he's sat in jail for 2 1/2 years now trying to chip away at that mountain - without much success. I think that the closer it gets, the more his attorneys have to be telling him that their case is not very strong, general sentiment is very much against him, and it's going to be nearly impossible to seat a sympathetic jury...so he should take a deal just to get the death penalty off the table and give himself a lifetime to turn things around.

But, even if that happens, it doesn't mean the prosecutor will listen. They're 2 1/2 years into a case, they've won every significant motion and the judge is allowing just about every piece of evidence they have gathered to be used. They've got a strong chance of a quick conviction, followed - in their worst scenario - by a life sentence. But, it's expensive, and if the families don't want to see a trial, maybe they're willing to give him life in exchange for a plea. That should be the only deal on the table - plead guilty to all charges, and you get life without parole. Don't plead guilty, you die.

Right now, my totally pulled out of the air estimate is 70-30 it goes to trial. But that could flip really quickly.

 

[ttowncoug]

I'm curious how good the video evidence is (does it show his license plate number?). This guys pretty much looks cooked.

I suspect it's him saying he's not interested in a deal at this point, not his defense team.

 

[Coug90]

At least publicly, it doesn't seem like there's much interest from either side in exploring a deal. Prosecution has been adamant that they've got their guy, and they want him dead. Period. Defense has been pretty firm on innocence...although some of their motions and legal ploys seem to hint otherwise. Right now, all the momentum seems to be toward trial. For what it's worth, I also haven't heard that the families are much interested in cutting a deal...although some have been relatively silent.

Early on, I figured the weight of information the prosecution had generated would force the defense to accept a deal just to keep him alive. That doesn't seem to have moved them, and he's sat in jail for 2 1/2 years now trying to chip away at that mountain - without much success. I think that the closer it gets, the more his attorneys have to be telling him that their case is not very strong, general sentiment is very much against him, and it's going to be nearly impossible to seat a sympathetic jury...so he should take a deal just to get the death penalty off the table and give himself a lifetime to turn things around.

But, even if that happens, it doesn't mean the prosecutor will listen. They're 2 1/2 years into a case, they've won every significant motion and the judge is allowing just about every piece of evidence they have gathered to be used. They've got a strong chance of a quick conviction, followed - in their worst scenario - by a life sentence. But, it's expensive, and if the families don't want to see a trial, maybe they're willing to give him life in exchange for a plea. That should be the only deal on the table - plead guilty to all charges, and you get life without parole. Don't plead guilty, you die.

Right now, my totally pulled out of the air estimate is 70-30 it goes to trial. But that could flip really quickly.

Interesting. In cases like this how much sway does the family have in what the prosecution will agree to? If the family says “hell no” to a plea will they take it to court no matter what?

I agree with you I think it’s going to be a pretty obvious one for the jury. But capital murder trials especially ones with this much press are a different beast. It’s hard to shake the thought of OJ going free when the evidence against him was so overwhelming.

 

[95coug]

Interesting. In cases like this how much sway does the family have in what the prosecution will agree to? If the family says “hell no” to a plea will they take it to court no matter what?

I agree with you I think it’s going to be a pretty obvious one for the jury. But capital murder trials especially ones with this much press are a different beast. It’s hard to shake the thought of OJ going free when the evidence against him was so overwhelming.

Legally...none. It's up to the prosecutor whether to take a deal, what deal to take, and even whether to pursue charges at all. Looking at the prosecutor's background, he's a hometown boy, probably without significant aspirations beyond this position (he graduated from UI Law in 1980 and has been prosecutor since 1992). From that, I'd gather that he's going to care less about how this plays toward him in the media, and more about whether it satisfies the families and the community.

The OJ case was ridiculous, and the prosecution was completely inept. They let the defense hijack the whole trial, turn the process into theatrics and divert attention from OJ to everything but OJ.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Interesting. In cases like this how much sway does the family have in what the prosecution will agree to? If the family says “hell no” to a plea will they take it to court no matter what?

I agree with you I think it’s going to be a pretty obvious one for the jury. But capital murder trials especially ones with this much press are a different beast. It’s hard to shake the thought of OJ going free when the evidence against him was so overwhelming.

The glove did not fit, they had to acquit.

I must admit that this whole horrible and tragic crime has always had me scratching my head. Those kids (RIP) must have all been passed out drunk. How does someone knife 4 people to death in their beds (including the guy and his GF in the same bed?) without a major ruckus? And the survivors didn't call 911 until what, 11AM the next day? The roommate thought the one dead girl was passed out?

I'm still certain that it was Kohberger and only Kohberger, but the whole thing was just so bizarre and unreal. If he pleas out of the death penalty, I'm confident that he won't last long in prison. Would probably live longer on death row.

 

[ttowncoug]

The glove did not fit, they had to acquit.

I must admit that this whole horrible and tragic crime has always had me scratching my head. Those kids (RIP) must have all been passed out drunk. How does someone knife 4 people to death in their beds (including the guy and his GF in the same bed?) without a major ruckus? And the survivors didn't call 911 until what, 11AM the next day? The roommate thought the one dead girl was passed out?

I'm still certain that it was Kohberger and only Kohberger, but the whole thing was just so bizarre and unreal. If he pleas out of the death penalty, I'm confident that he won't last long in prison. Would probably live longer on death row.

I agree. I suspect they were all high intoxicated.

 

[Coug90]

The glove did not fit, they had to acquit.

I must admit that this whole horrible and tragic crime has always had me scratching my head. Those kids (RIP) must have all been passed out drunk. How does someone knife 4 people to death in their beds (including the guy and his GF in the same bed?) without a major ruckus? And the survivors didn't call 911 until what, 11AM the next day? The roommate thought the one dead girl was passed out?

I'm still certain that it was Kohberger and only Kohberger, but the whole thing was just so bizarre and unreal. If he pleas out of the death penalty, I'm confident that he won't last long in prison. Would probably live longer on death row.

Yah. Except for the fact that his blood was at the crime scene her blood was on his car. His bloody gloves were at both locations.

 

[95coug]

I agree. I suspect they were all high intoxicated.

Some pieces really don't fit. The video of the two girls at the food truck just before the murders, they don't appear to be obviously intoxicated. It's 2AM on a Saturday in a college town, and they'd been at the bar, so...probably. But no more than anyone else. The 3rd girl was supposedly awake, browsing TikTok, and ordered food at 4AM. And she had defensive wounds. Most of that really doesn't say to me that any of them were wrecked.
3 of them were probably asleep, which would have made it easier, but there are still a fair number of details that are missing. The timeline says it was all over in a few minutes, and the reconstructions have indicated it may have taken as little as 3 minutes. But that kind of speed suggests (to me) that he knew the layout, knew who he was after, and knew where they were. Again...missing details. I'm hoping the prosecution can explain some of these things, and more importantly, can make a stronger connection between him and at least one victim, and make this case completely airtight.

 

[95coug]

Yah. Except for the fact that his blood was at the crime scene her blood was on his car. His bloody gloves were at both locations.

It was the LAPD! They planted the gloves there! The blood was planted too!

Prosecution never should have let him try on the gloves in the courtroom. They'd been wet, and were never going to fit.

If the OJ case was at trial today, the DNA evidence alone would convict him. The testimony about it at the time was too technical and too complicated, and the jury didn't understand. And, the judge allowed the defense to make claims of tainted and planted evidence, without producing any evidence of either.

 

[Coug90]

It was the LAPD! They planted the gloves there! The blood was planted too!

Prosecution never should have let him try on the gloves in the courtroom. They'd been wet, and were never going to fit.

If the OJ case was at trial today, the DNA evidence alone would convict him. The testimony about it at the time was too technical and too complicated, and the jury didn't understand. And, the judge allowed the defense to make claims of tainted and planted evidence, without producing any evidence of either.

Right. Throw out all of that evidence because Fuhrman said the N word once. Ffs most of the jury has probably said the N Word before. I agree the prosecution messed up and Johnny and friends were good showman but the evidence against him was so completely damning…shame on the jurors.

 

[Coug90]

Some pieces really don't fit. The video of the two girls at the food truck just before the murders, they don't appear to be obviously intoxicated. It's 2AM on a Saturday in a college town, and they'd been at the bar, so...probably. But no more than anyone else. The 3rd girl was supposedly awake, browsing TikTok, and ordered food at 4AM. And she had defensive wounds. Most of that really doesn't say to me that any of them were wrecked.
3 of them were probably asleep, which would have made it easier, but there are still a fair number of details that are missing. The timeline says it was all over in a few minutes, and the reconstructions have indicated it may have taken as little as 3 minutes. But that kind of speed suggests (to me) that he knew the layout, knew who he was after, and knew where they were. Again...missing details. I'm hoping the prosecution can explain some of these things, and more importantly, can make a stronger connection between him and at least one victim, and make this case completely airtight.

I suspect there probably will be for the public until the trial.

I believe he had one target in mind. Of course both the girls upstairs were in the same bed and likely asleep so that probably went very quickly. He then stumbled into Xana and/or Ethan who seemed to be still awake (ordered the food). I don’t think it’s unreasonable under those circumstances for him to be in and out in 5 min. Also explains why he’d walk right by Bethany in the door as he was probably flustered and in a hurry to get moving. She was very lucky.

 

[Observer11]

Have said this before, the only way a deal is cut is if Kohberger cops to other unsolved murders.

This crime is so heinous, the good people of the State of Idaho will accept nothing less than the ultimate penalty.

For those wondering how a guy can slip in and out without a ruckus, go take a knife and jab it into a watermelon 10+ times and see how much noise it makes. Someone even slightly intoxicated isn't waking up from deep sleep fresh as a daisy in the first 30 seconds to put up a fight.

 

[95coug]

Right. Throw out all of that evidence because Fuhrman said the N word once. Ffs most of the jury has probably said the N Word before. I agree the prosecution messed up and Johnny and friends were good showman but the evidence against him was so completely damning…shame on the jurors.

The really big mistake was that they spent too much time on the DNA. The jury didn’t understand it, so their approach was to bring in Multiple experts. Those experts talked way over the jury’s heads, and they tuned out. The defense brought in their expert to intentionally confuse the jury - making claims of planted blood drops and bad preservation of evidence. It worked, and the jury basically discarded the DNA…which was absolutely clear the OJ did it.

If the sources I read yesterday were right, the defense “expert” was never called to testify in another trial - not even by the defense attorneys.

 

[Coug90]

The really big mistake was that they spent too much time on the DNA. The jury didn’t understand it, so their approach was to bring in Multiple experts. Those experts talked way over the jury’s heads, and they tuned out. The defense brought in their expert to intentionally confuse the jury - making claims of planted blood drops and bad preservation of evidence. It worked, and the jury basically discarded the DNA…which was absolutely clear the OJ did it.

If the sources I read yesterday were right, the defense “expert” was never called to testify in another trial - not even by the defense attorneys.

The latest Netflix drop on the OJ fiasco is pretty good. Really paints the picture of reality vs a trial. Jury selection, evidence admission, and credibility of witnesses. OJs defense crushed all 3 and he got off, even though any reasonable person could easily see he did it.

 

[95coug]

The latest Netflix drop on the OJ fiasco is pretty good. Really paints the picture of reality vs a trial. Jury selection, evidence admission, and credibility of witnesses. OJs defense crushed all 3 and he got off, even though any reasonable person could easily see he did it.

Always shook my head at those who looked at the OJ case as a racial, black/white issue. It wasn't. It was a rich/poor issue. Only somebody who could afford that stable of attorneys was getting off. Someone who went in there with your typical criminal law attorney would have gotten the needle.

 

[VandallHuskerJulie]

Today the judge has scheduled a remote hearing for Monday. Not sure what that's about. Meanwhile the judge has denied the defense asking for the death penalty to be removed as she hasn't had time to review all the documents (as my non legal mind interprets this), the documents aren't in order etc etc. Interesting that in this ruling the judge makes a point of mentioning that the defense atty has taken on another high profile death penalty case.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/042925+Order+on+Defendants+Motion+to+Strike+Death+Penalty+and+Adopt+other+Necessary+Procedures.pdf

 

[95coug]

Today the judge has scheduled a remote hearing for Monday. Not sure what that's about. Meanwhile the judge has denied the defense asking for the death penalty to be removed as she hasn't had time to review all the documents (as my non legal mind interprets this), the documents aren't in order etc etc. Interesting that in this ruling the judge makes a point of mentioning that the defense atty has taken on another high profile death penalty case.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/042925+Order+on+Defendants+Motion+to+Strike+Death+Penalty+and+Adopt+other+Necessary+Procedures.pdf

Yeah, the defense made a broad request for documents. When they got it, they complained it’s too much information and not well enough organized, and they don’t have time to go through it properly. The judge basically told them they’ve had 2 years, the same amount of time as the prosecution, they’ve been getting information in the same manner the whole time and not complaining about it…and that defense counsel can’t take on more cases and then claim she doesn’t have time.

Basically, yet another bitch-slap denial of a defense motion.

 

[Coug90]

Always shook my head at those who looked at the OJ case as a racial, black/white issue. It wasn't. It was a rich/poor issue. Only somebody who could afford that stable of attorneys was getting off. Someone who went in there with your typical criminal law attorney would have gotten the needle.

They made it a black white issue because Rodney King was so fresh in everyone’s mind and he was black/she was white. Furhmans history was the get out of jail free card for OK.