Leach gets Costello

[Flatlandcoug]

You really are out of your element claiming Spike was a more successful coach than Leach. I posted on Raider Power since about 2000, and trust me if you posted that on the texas tech board you would be laughed off the board and thought a troll or an idiot.

But regardless, some have a vested interest in Leach not succeeding at Miss State that I don't quite understand.

Don't get me wrong.....Leach was a better coach than Dykes.....but when it came to grabbing the brass ring...so much of Leach's credibility rides on that 2008 season. FWIW, Dykes was a pretty good coach himself. He didn't have a losing season in his last seven seasons at Texas Tech and was 35-23 in his last five seasons there. Leach was 39-25 in his first five years at Texas Tech. Not exactly a giant improvement. Again, a lot of Leach's mythology was based on the 2008 season. He was pretty darned good at WSU but if the 2018 season hadn't happened.....falling to 6-7 this year would have been even more disappointing than it was.

We all respect Leach and know that Mississippi State is lucky to get him, but it's just silly to assume that he's going to suddenly change who he is.

EDIT: I guess my biggest point about Leach is that he didn't instantly transform Texas Tech into a Big 12 championship contender. Tech was decent before he got there and he made them about 1 game per year better. The 2008 season (much like our 2018 season) was an aberration where he had the right mix of players to run with the big dogs.....and he still lost to Oklahoma by 44 points when it mattered. In 2009, Tech dropped back to 3rd place in the South where they normally hung out. Leach's crazy ass shenanigans draw a lot of attention and he's a lot better generating press than other coaches, but 19 years of head coaching without a championship is pretty telling. Mike Price had two championships in 14 years at WSU.

 

[CougPatrol]

What exactly did he do or not do that leads you to believe that he was burned out with Pullman?

Well, for starters, he was trying to get out of Pullman 2 years ago when the Tennessee job was open.

I know this isn't apples to apples, but I've been in medical sales and marketing most of my career. The coveted jobs in my industry don't open up very often, but once you start actively seeking employment elsewhere, your passion (and performance) for your current role diminishes. It just does. That's what I noticed with Leach.

I think he genuinely loved WSU and was very grateful to us for the opportunity to resurrect his career. I also think that, deep down, he felt that his star burned brighter than what WSU and Pullman could offer. He wanted to be closer to home, more conveniently able to travel (which he loves), and he really loves the SEC. Once the Tennessee job fell through, I noticed (and yes, I may have been misreading him) that his demeanor appeared different. Once he really started thinking about and envisioning himself coaching in the SEC, going to back to WSU probably seemed...meh. That's all I mean when I say burned out. He was just ready for something else, and chasing recruits up and down the West coast and continually rehiring assistant coaches probably got to him. Trust me when I say this, your energy is different at 40 than it is when you're in your 50's.

 

[Observer11]

Can the moderator create a new fawning over Mike Leach board for those who pine over the past?

As for me, I prefer my Cougar football hot talk to revolve around the present state of affairs at Washington State.

 

[dgibbons]

Well, for starters, he was trying to get out of Pullman 2 years ago when the Tennessee job was open.

I know this isn't apples to apples, but I've been in medical sales and marketing most of my career. The coveted jobs in my industry don't open up very often, but once you start actively seeking employment elsewhere, your passion (and performance) for your current role diminishes. It just does. That's what I noticed with Leach.

I think he genuinely loved WSU and was very grateful to us for the opportunity to resurrect his career. I also think that, deep down, he felt that his star burned brighter than what WSU and Pullman could offer. He wanted to be closer to home, more conveniently able to travel (which he loves), and he really loves the SEC. Once the Tennessee job fell through, I noticed (and yes, I may have been misreading him) that his demeanor appeared different. Once he really started thinking about and envisioning himself coaching in the SEC, going to back to WSU probably seemed...meh. That's all I mean when I say burned out. He was just ready for something else, and chasing recruits up and down the West coast and continually rehiring assistant coaches probably got to him. Trust me when I say this, your energy is different at 40 than it is when you're in your 50's.

I can't come to the conclusion Tennessee job = Leach burned out. I don't think a burn out gets 11 wins the next season. And remember that Moos bolted in the middle of the 2017 football season and Schulz was swinging the budget axe.

 

[royhobbs2]

yea, he was so burned out he went 11-2.

He still left some meat on the bone though, should have been 13-0.

 

[CougPatrol]

I can't come to the conclusion Tennessee job = Leach burned out. I don't think a burn out gets 11 wins the next season. And remember that Moos bolted in the middle of the 2017 football season and Schulz was swinging the budget axe.

Well, by burned out, I'm referring to recruiting and his desire to be in Pullman. The 11 wins the following year have everything to do with Leach as a coach, his ability to sign and develop Minshew, and the talent that was already on board. Leach didn't forget how to coach, but I think it's reasonable to speculate that he had mentally checked out of Pullman.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Well, by burned out, I'm referring to recruiting and his desire to be in Pullman. The 11 wins the following year have everything to do with Leach as a coach, his ability to sign and develop Minshew, and the talent that was already on board. Leach didn't forget how to coach, but I think it's reasonable to speculate that he had mentally checked out of Pullman.

Sometimes people have better years than others in their jobs. Could be a bunch of different factors as to why. Age, health, energy, burnout, desire to be somewhere else, etc.

If Leach needed to move on to another job to get fired up again, fine.

Thanks for the time and the run. Best of luck.

Let's not pretend like he wasn't asleep at the wheel last season. That team had more talent and ability than 3 league wins and a butt whipping in the bowl game.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

I find the "scorned at the prom" take hilarious from the group that is the equivalent of "sitting outside her house and driving off when she looks out the window."

 

[royhobbs2]

Successful programs usually have tradition. They usually look back fondly on their successful coaches.

I don't see any logic in attacking a coach who resurrected the program, made the football team relevant again and gave you a lot of great seasons. Unless you are angry he left. Which I really don't get either, he left on good terms and had good relations with the administration.

 

[CougPatrol]

Successful programs usually have tradition. They usually look back fondly on their successful coaches.

I don't see any logic in attacking a coach who resurrected the program, made the football team relevant again and gave you a lot of great seasons. Unless you are angry he left. Which I really don't get either, he left on good terms and had good relations with the administration.

I haven't seen anyone on here attacking Leach for leaving. He's one of the greatest coaches in school history, and his 8 years were legendary. He obviously wanted to leave, and he owed us nothing. Leach delivered on everything we could have possibly hoped, and I'll always remember him for that. With that said, when someone wants to leave, you're better off without them. That's my take, anyway.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Successful programs usually have tradition. They usually look back fondly on their successful coaches.

I don't see any logic in attacking a coach who resurrected the program, made the football team relevant again and gave you a lot of great seasons. Unless you are angry he left. Which I really don't get either, he left on good terms and had good relations with the administration.

What I find interesting is that you feel like we are attacking Leach. I know that I'm not. Dude's a good coach. He helped revolutionize the game and he may end up in the College Football Hall of Fame. That doesn't mean that he is flawless and perfect and that doesn't mean that he is guaranteed success at Mississippi State.

Most of the comments about Leach are not attacks. It's applying two decades of data to the situation. Flaws and all, I'd take him back in a heartbeat if he really wanted to be in Pullman. As others have said, he's been leaning out the door for a while and sometimes, it's just best to move on.

 

[royhobbs2]

I don't think anyone ever suggested Leach is flawless and perfect and that he is guaranteed success at MSU.

That is a straw man.

I don't get the negative posts about Leach though. WSU isn't Alabama or Ohio State. He did a pretty amazing job here id say. I don't care if you root for Miss State to fail or succeed, to each his own.

I would like WSU to do well and ill root for the program, but I also will be a fan of Miss State and I hope Leach has a great run at Miss State.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

I don't think anyone ever suggested Leach is flawless and perfect and that he is guaranteed success at MSU.

That is a straw man.

I don't get the negative posts about Leach though. WSU isn't Alabama or Ohio State. He did a pretty amazing job here id say. I don't care if you root for Miss State to fail or succeed, to each his own.

I would like WSU to do well and ill root for the program, but I also will be a fan of Miss State and I hope Leach has a great run at Miss State.

Fair enough. I won't root against Mississippi State, but I can say with confidence that the only time that I'll know about how they are doing is when someone brings them up. I couldn't tell you Virginia's record in basketball right now if you put a gun to my head. For me, I'm a Washington State fan and nothing more. I root for our players in pro sports after they leave WSU because they have no choice in the matter....they lose their eligibility but they will always be a Coug. I don't personally see why anyone would root for Leach at Mississippi State. He's the one that left us. It'd be like someone rooting for SDSU because Malachi Flynn plays there now. To me....that's just bizarre.

But if you want to root for Leach and MSU...knock yourself out.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

I don't think anyone ever suggested Leach is flawless and perfect and that he is guaranteed success at MSU.

That is a straw man.

I don't get the negative posts about Leach though. WSU isn't Alabama or Ohio State. He did a pretty amazing job here id say. I don't care if you root for Miss State to fail or succeed, to each his own.

I would like WSU to do well and ill root for the program, but I also will be a fan of Miss State and I hope Leach has a great run at Miss State.

And you seem to make the argument that there is something wrong with the people who either dont care about him now that hes gone or dont think he'll be any more successfull there than he was anywhere else. You act as if we owe him something other than a thanks and the, what... $27MM he earned.

Personally, i i have my hands full keeping up with WSU and my pro teams. Hes had one foot out the door for a while, so thanks but forgive me if we dont see you out, there are other pressing matters now.

 

[royhobbs2]

I could care less if you follow MSU

but the predictions of certain doom comes off as sour grapes

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

I could care less if you follow MSU

but the predictions of certain doom comes off as sour grapes

So what. Youre the sour grapes patrol?

 

[royhobbs2]

Your right. Keep whining

 

[Flatlandcoug]

I could care less if you follow MSU

but the predictions of certain doom comes off as sour grapes

One or two people are negative. The rest of us look at his history and say that he'll win 7-9 games. When did that become a bad thing? I mean, we know that Nebraska fires coaches that finish with 9 wins, but that's a special kind of douchebaggery that doesn't apply here.

 

[Fab5Coug]

Can the moderator create a new fawning over Mike Leach board for those who pine over the past?

As for me, I prefer my Cougar football hot talk to revolve around the present state of affairs at Washington State.

Is having separate threads clearly dedicated to specific topics not good enough for you? I've seen you post this multiple times now. I remain a fan of Leach and will remain interested in his success, and will gladly participate in threads about him. You may feel free to not click on a thread titled "Leach gets Costello".

 

[Fab5Coug]

Successful programs usually have tradition. They usually look back fondly on their successful coaches.

I don't see any logic in attacking a coach who resurrected the program, made the football team relevant again and gave you a lot of great seasons. Unless you are angry he left. Which I really don't get either, he left on good terms and had good relations with the administration.

Eh, give people a couple years. People were pissed off when Price & Bennett left too. I think most Cougs hold them in favorable regard now.

 

[Observer11]

Is having separate threads clearly dedicated to specific topics not good enough for you? I've seen you post this multiple times now. I remain a fan of Leach and will remain interested in his success, and will gladly participate in threads about him. You may feel free to not click on a thread titled "Leach gets Costello".

Nope. Not my coach any longer. Feel free not to respond either if it bothers you that much which apparently it does.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Is having separate threads clearly dedicated to specific topics not good enough for you? I've seen you post this multiple times now. I remain a fan of Leach and will remain interested in his success, and will gladly participate in threads about him. You may feel free to not click on a thread titled "Leach gets Costello".

Mike Leach's present situation is as relevant to Cougar football as CPW is. Discussion about what he's doing belongs at the MSU board. Heres a link:

I heart CML now and forever

 

[Fab5Coug]

Mike Leach's present situation is as relevant to Cougar football as CPW is. Discussion about what he's doing belongs at the MSU board. Heres a link:

I heart CML now and forever

You two oughta cut the hall monitor routine.

 

[425cougfan]

Go to any board in the country and they all are talking about their past coaches frequently. They're certainly doing it when the last guy just left, especially if he put together one of the best stretches in the history of the program.

Leach's predecessor wasn't the topic of every thread on here -- either at the outset or within a few posts -- only after about 7 or 8 years had passed.

It will be a good sign If Leach doesn't come up that much in a few years but he's going to be a frequent discussion topic. If we have constant breakdowns of Mississippi State recruiting, game highlights, etc., that's a bit much. Talking generally about how it's going for him, and maybe things he's doing differently (or not), as directly relevant to some of the debate here over whether he mailed it in and what was responsible for some shortcomings? Yeah. It's going to happen. If anything, it's more relevant for him than most coaches due to the "gimmick" offense and a lot of people, here and otherwise, looking to see how it's going to work out in the SEC.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Go to any board in the country and they all are talking about their past coaches frequently. They're certainly doing it when the last guy just left, especially if he put together one of the best stretches in the history of the program.

Leach's predecessor wasn't the topic of every thread on here -- either at the outset or within a few posts -- only after about 7 or 8 years had passed.

It will be a good sign If Leach doesn't come up that much in a few years but he's going to be a frequent discussion topic. If we have constant breakdowns of Mississippi State recruiting, game highlights, etc., that's a bit much. Talking generally about how it's going for him, and maybe things he's doing differently (or not), as directly relevant to some of the debate here over whether he mailed it in and what was responsible for some shortcomings? Yeah. It's going to happen. If anything, it's more relevant for him than most coaches due to the "gimmick" offense and a lot of people, here and otherwise, looking to see how it's going to work out in the SEC.

You are correct that the Leach talk will die down if Rolovich does well and it is inevitable that Leach is brought up if Rolovich is struggling. You are absolutely correct that it's typical to talk about Leach right now and compare him to Rolovich. We've seen that talk when it comes to recruiting. I don't believe that it's typical for fans to be so into the former coach that they talk about attending a game at the coach's new school. That's weird and it's interesting that Leach draws that kind of reaction. Hell, Texas Tech fans did it. So, it's weird to me, but it's obviously something that people do with Leach.

 

[Coug1990]

Go to any board in the country and they all are talking about their past coaches frequently. They're certainly doing it when the last guy just left, especially if he put together one of the best stretches in the history of the program.

Leach's predecessor wasn't the topic of every thread on here -- either at the outset or within a few posts -- only after about 7 or 8 years had passed.

It will be a good sign If Leach doesn't come up that much in a few years but he's going to be a frequent discussion topic. If we have constant breakdowns of Mississippi State recruiting, game highlights, etc., that's a bit much. Talking generally about how it's going for him, and maybe things he's doing differently (or not), as directly relevant to some of the debate here over whether he mailed it in and what was responsible for some shortcomings? Yeah. It's going to happen. If anything, it's more relevant for him than most coaches due to the "gimmick" offense and a lot of people, here and otherwise, looking to see how it's going to work out in the SEC.

Good post. I am curious to see how he does in the SEC. I believe as a competitor, he wants to challenge himself as well. I am not going to do in depth analysis or anything. But, I will pay more attention to the SEC than I otherwise would.

 

[PINGDUDE4]

You are correct that the Leach talk will die down if Rolovich does well and it is inevitable that Leach is brought up if Rolovich is struggling. You are absolutely correct that it's typical to talk about Leach right now and compare him to Rolovich. We've seen that talk when it comes to recruiting. I don't believe that it's typical for fans to be so into the former coach that they talk about attending a game at the coach's new school. That's weird and it's interesting that Leach draws that kind of reaction. Hell, Texas Tech fans did it. So, it's weird to me, but it's obviously something that people do with Leach.

Totally different circumstances than Tech and any comparison of Rolo to Leach is irrelevant. Leach voluntarily left WSU so there was no choice technically made between him and Rolo. WSU had to hire a replacement . What should be fair game is a comparison of Rolo to whatever coaches might have been hired instead of him. However it is ironic that people bitch about Leach mailing it in one hand but turn around and gush about Hawaiian QB that Leach beat out Rolo and USC to go to WSU. People seem to forget if Leach had not been around that kid would be in LA right now.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Totally different circumstances than Tech and any comparison of Rolo to Leach is irrelevant. Leach voluntarily WSU so there was no choice technically made between him and Rolo. WSU had to hire a replacement . What should be fair game is a comparison of Rolo to whatever coaches might have been hired instead of him. However it is ironic that people bitch about Leach mailing it in one hand but turn around and gush about Hawaiian QB that Leach beat out Rolo and USC to go to WSU. People seem to forget if Leach had not been around that kid would be in LA right now.

I haven't wasted any effort arguing whether Leach mailed it in or not. I can see the argument that he was leaning out the door and our recruiting kind of sucked overall, but frankly, that's probably more of an assistant coach problem than a Leach problem. With all the staff turnover, it's not all that surprising that our recruiting has suffered a bit. As you said, Leach is a QB guy and we got the guy we wanted.

 

[Observer11]

Totally different circumstances than Tech and any comparison of Rolo to Leach is irrelevant. Leach voluntarily WSU so there was no choice technically made between him and Rolo. WSU had to hire a replacement . What should be fair game is a comparison of Rolo to whatever coaches might have been hired instead of him. However it is ironic that people bitch about Leach mailing it in one hand but turn around and gush about Hawaiian QB that Leach beat out Rolo and USC to go to WSU. People seem to forget if Leach had not been around that kid would be in LA right now.

No guarantee on that. It’s chicken or egg. By virtue of the Leach offer, the kid goes up a few notches in the P5 recruiting food chain and probably surpassed some other USC targets simply because of that. USC isn’t tracking Hawaii QB offers. They are tracking Pac 12 and national offers.


And if WSU isn’t regularly beating out Hawaii on recruits, there’s something radically wrong with whoever the coach or sport is. Or have people forgotten Gesser and Derek Low or Chantelle Molina as prime Hawaiians who shined in Pullman?

 

[royhobbs2]

No guarantee on that. It’s chicken or egg. By virtue of the Leach offer, the kid goes up a few notches in the P5 recruiting food chain and probably surpassed some other USC targets simply because of that. USC isn’t tracking Hawaii QB offers. They are tracking Pac 12 and national offers.


And if WSU isn’t regularly beating out Hawaii on recruits, there’s something radically wrong with whoever the coach or sport is. Or have people forgotten Gesser and Derek Low or Chantelle Molina as prime Hawaiians who shined in Pullman?

Holy shit, you are you really reaching low now

 

[Observer11]

Holy shit, you are you really reaching low now

What are you talking about? That's complimentary of Leach and his reputation.

 

[royhobbs2]

Did Leach steal your girlfriend or something

 

[Observer11]

Did Leach steal your girlfriend or something

No - did he steal your reading comprehension level?

The exact statement I responded to was this:

People seem to forget if Leach had not been around that kid would be in LA right now.

The presumption being Delaura would have been a shoo-in for a USC offer with or without Leach. My contention is Leach's offer uplifted Delaura's profile to get one USCs radar. If memory serves me correct, when Dalaura committed his only other offer was Hawaii....but USC wasn't in the picture until this fall.

How is that worthy of your snarky girlfriend comment? Do explain.

If anything, YOU"RE disrespecting Leach.

 

[royhobbs2]

not worth my time, but you are so petty that you make all kinds of intellectually dishonest contortions to avoid giving Leach credit for bringing Delaura to WSU.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

not worth my time, but you are so petty that you make all kinds of intellectually dishonest contortions to avoid giving Leach credit for bringing Delaura to WSU.

Geezus, dude. Go back to whatever it was you were doing before you crawled out from under your rock. You're now just posting nonsense just to be argumentative. Great contribution to the board.

 

[royhobbs2]

Really, so Leach didn't recruit JD to WSU ? LOL who is posting nonsense ?

Your contribution usually consists of some type of whining, so carry on.

 

[Fab5Coug]

not worth my time, but you are so petty that you make all kinds of intellectually dishonest contortions to avoid giving Leach credit for bringing Delaura to WSU.

What are you talking about?

He's just saying, without Leach's offer, USC probably isn't interested. And, even with SC offering, he still chose Leach & WSU.

How you construed that as negative, I have no idea.

 

[royhobbs2]

so Ping cant even make the statement that JD is in Pullman because of Leach ?

Lol

 

[Flatlandcoug]

so Ping cant even make the statement that JD is in Pullman because of Leach ?

Lol

Of course the kid is in Pullman because of Leach.....recruiting QB's was his thing. Outside of that one guy....we didn't land a bunch of guys who were getting chased by a bunch of other schools. Even though I don't obsess about star ratings and the number of offers that each guy gets.....I took a quick look at the guys who signed or committed with Leach to see how many were highly regarded by other Power 5 schools. List below:

De Laura: 2
Hobert: 0
Buchanon: 1
Kylany: 1
Mayginnes: 0
James: 1
Escorcia: 1
Ashby: 1
Ripley: 0
McNorton: 0
Anderson: 2
Tialava: 3
Pellum: 2
Lohrenz: 0
Lopez: 1
Freeman: 5
Wilkerson: 4
Lataimua: 0

We had three guys who held offers from more than 3+ Power 5 schools and six guys total with 2+ offers from Power 5 schools. That's bordering on Wulffian level of interest. By comparison, our 2018 signing class had 14 guys with at least two other offers from Power 5 programs. If you don't think that our recruiting regressed this year....that's cool, but it's not what I'm seeing.

As I said above, this isn't just about Leach leaning out the door. Losing assistant coaches every year is a big deal and we need to work to reduce that happening as much as we can.

 

[425cougfan]

Of course the kid is in Pullman because of Leach.....recruiting QB's was his thing. Outside of that one guy....we didn't land a bunch of guys who were getting chased by a bunch of other schools. Even though I don't obsess about star ratings and the number of offers that each guy gets.....I took a quick look at the guys who signed or committed with Leach to see how many were highly regarded by other Power 5 schools. List below:

De Laura: 2
Hobert: 0
Buchanon: 1
Kylany: 1
Mayginnes: 0
James: 1
Escorcia: 1
Ashby: 1
Ripley: 0
McNorton: 0
Anderson: 2
Tialava: 3
Pellum: 2
Lohrenz: 0
Lopez: 1
Freeman: 5
Wilkerson: 4
Lataimua: 0

We had three guys who held offers from more than 3+ Power 5 schools and six guys total with 2+ offers from Power 5 schools. That's bordering on Wulffian level of interest. By comparison, our 2018 signing class had 14 guys with at least two other offers from Power 5 programs. If you don't think that our recruiting regressed this year....that's cool, but it's not what I'm seeing.

As I said above, this isn't just about Leach leaning out the door. Losing assistant coaches every year is a big deal and we need to work to reduce that happening as much as we can.

Glad you looked at this stuff and I agree with the focus on other offers, but I think the most critical measure is whether they had at least one other P5 (or, in particular cases, legit G of 5) offers. 12 out of 17 who had at least one other Power 5 offer is pretty good and nowhere near Wulff standards.

I don't have the hard numbers handy but I remember adding up *all* of the other P5 offers that Wulff's recruits had over his entire tenure and it was something along the lines of single-digit recruits total, over four years, who had even a single other P5 offer, and a total of 16 such offers over his four years. Then Leach had something like 5 times Wulff's four-year total in his first class that he cobbled together in 2012. Again, not the actual numbers but it was something along those lines. We can't say this is bordering on Wulffian level of interest.