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Michigan State Fan Here...

May 31, 2005
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Michigan State fan and alumnus here. I think most of our fanbase is excited about playing another Top 20 team in WSU but somewhat disappointed in doing so in the Holiday Bowl instead of a NYD game (Citrus or Outback). OSU not getting in the playoff created a lot chaos in our bowl selection. Since the Orange Bowl selected one of the three Big Ten NY6 teams not in the playoff, the Citrus Bowl (where we were projected to go) was no longer eligible to select a Big Ten team. Somehow, an 8-4 Michigan team (who we beat), finished 4th in the Big Ten East, and didn't beat a single team with a winning record got the Outback Bowl Bid on NYD. Clearly, on field performance has nothing to do with bowl selection these days. Anyway, here is my take on MSU...

This year's MSU squad is one of the 3 youngest teams in the Power 5, with only 4 seniors in our 2 deep. We've had a lot of success over the last decade or so (Rose Bowl win, Cotton Bowl win, CFP Appearance, etc) but had a very disappointing 3-9 year last season...our worst season in 35 years or so. Last season culminated with 4 of our top players being kicked off the team due to off field issues during the off season.

Considering our struggles last year and player attrition, I'd say most of our fan base was hoping for a 6-6 / 7-5 type year after last year's debacle. 9-3 including a road win over Michigan and a home win vs. Penn State has most of us feeling this team has overachieved and is ahead of schedule considering their youth. It seems that the locker room issues have been cleaned up.

Our QB (Brian Lewereke) is a RS Sophomore with great potential and this is his first year as our starter. He had a couple of 400+ yard games (including the game against Penn State) but has had a couple of ugly games as well...some of this is due to the fact that we've played in a few cold/sloppy weather games, which has limited effective passing opportunities. He is also a mobile QB and has ripped off some long runs this year. We primarily operate out of a pro style offense.

Our primary RB is LJ Scott...he is a 3rd year starter as a Junior but has had trouble holding on to the football this year. Overall he is a great talent but the ball security issues have been very frustrating. In spite of this, he may still be projected to go high enough in the NFL draft to leave school after his junior year.

Our top WR target is Felton Davis, a RS Jr. He has 8 TD's on the year. We also have a true freshman in Cody White who has been very effective and made the conference All-Freshmen Team.

Our OL is very young (like most position groups). They have done a good job pass protecting but we've done a poor job being able to pound the ball on the ground this year...very few holes for our RB's to utilize.

Defensively, I saw somewhere that we ranked in the Top 10 nationally in total defense. Other than the Ohio State game, our defensive line has been pretty stout against the run. Our DB's have been a pleasant surprise, with some young players like Josiah Scott being named to the all-conference team as freshmen. We typically struggle more with teams who run up tempo style offense and spread the ball out to make us tackle in space...WSU is not a great matchup for us in this regard. We are usually pretty effective against pro style / traditional offenses. We typically play press man coverage, which puts a lot of pressure on our DB's to perform.

Special Teams are okay. We have a true freshman kicker who was 15/19 this year...he missed 2 field goals at Northwestern, contributing to our loss in 3OT. Our punter (Jake Hartbarger) is very effective and might even be considered a weapon for us. We struggle to kick touchbacks on kickoffs and our return men leave a lot to be desired.

Our head coach, Mark Dantonio, is one of the best in the business, in my opinion. MSU doesn't get the most talent but Dantonio coaches these guys up. (Kirk Cousins and Le'Veon Bell were 2 star recruits, for example). Our campus is located 65 miles from U of M, 150 miles from ND, and 250 miles from OSU (3 of the winningest programs of all time) so recruiting is always a challenge. Most of our fanbase is frustrated with our offensive playcalling. We don't have the horses on the OL to pound the ball this year but the staff is too stubborn to go away from their run first philosophy and air the ball out a bit more. We tend to waste a lot of early downs running the ball into our O-Line's kidneys for no gain.

Unfortunately, I will be unable to attend the game in San Diego as I will be in Florida visiting family for the holidays (another reason I selfishly wanted the bowl game to be in Orlando or Tampa). I've already heard a lot of complaints that plane tickets are extremely expensive out of Detroit to San Diego during the bowl game time frame, I'll be interested to see how many MSU fans make it out that way. We typically have a very good following and have a large alumni base, so we shall see...
 
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Thank you. Excellent summary of your team. Many of us Cougar fans figured we would be headed for the Bay Area and Foster Farms Bowl against a lesser Big-10 team. When UW made it to the Fiesta Bowl, that opened up the Holiday. I can't speak for all Cougar fans, but we have a tremendous amount of respect for the MSU program and are both nervous/excited to play a team like yours. As you know, we beat USC and Stanford, but got steamrolled by UW and lost to Cal of all teams. You won't have to scroll down too far to see what has been our biggest problem this year...but 9 wins is more than most of us predicted going into the season. I hope we can be competitive against the Spartans and actually expect us to be. One of the great bowl games in Cougar history was the 2003 Holiday Bowl vs. Texas, which we won. While MSU is not as highly ranked as that Longhorn team was, this year's matchup has that kind of feel....two very good teams going at it in which the victor emerges with a quality win. Best of luck!

Glad Cougar
 
Good write up! I’ve always been a Dantonio fan- he’s a helluva coach and puts together tough hard nosed teams. The Cougs will have their hands full in this game for sure.
 
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Excited to see the Cougs against Michigan State. I was resigned to a disappointing matchup against either 6-6 Purdue or 6-6 Utah State so it's great that we are avoiding that.

One request. Please ask your football players to avoid gang raping any students to ruin the week leading up to the game. Minnesota football's rape culture caught up to them before the game and created a toxic atmosphere for what should have been an exciting time for both teams.

Looking forward to the game and it's always seemed that Michigan State has had a first class program.
 
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Yes, good write up and summary.

It's interesting and surprising to learn the last time the COUGS and the Spartans played each other was 1977. 40 years ago.

Here's to a great and healthy outcome!
 
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Excited to see the Cougs against Michigan State. I was resigned to a disappointing matchup against either 6-6 Purdue or 6-6 Utah State so it's great that we are avoiding that.

One request. Please ask your football players to avoid gang raping any students to ruin the week leading up to the game. Minnesota football's rape culture caught up to them before the game and created a toxic atmosphere for what should have been an exciting time for both teams.

Looking forward to the game and it's always seemed that Michigan State has had a first class program.
And they still pounded us into the dirt.
 
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Michigan State fan and alumnus here. I think most of our fanbase is excited about playing another Top 20 team in WSU but somewhat disappointed in doing so in the Holiday Bowl instead of a NYD game (Citrus or Outback). OSU not getting in the playoff created a lot chaos in our bowl selection. Since the Orange Bowl selected one of the three Big Ten NY6 teams not in the playoff, the Citrus Bowl (where we were projected to go) was no longer eligible to select a Big Ten team. Somehow, an 8-4 Michigan team (who we beat), finished 4th in the Big Ten East, and didn't beat a single team with a winning record got the Outback Bowl Bid on NYD. Clearly, on field performance has nothing to do with bowl selection these days. Anyway, here is my take on MSU...

This year's MSU squad is one of the 3 youngest teams in the Power 5, with only 4 seniors in our 2 deep. We've had a lot of success over the last decade or so (Rose Bowl win, Cotton Bowl win, CFP Appearance, etc) but had a very disappointing 3-9 year last season...our worst season in 35 years or so. Last season culminated with 4 of our top players being kicked off the team due to off field issues during the off season.

Considering our struggles last year and player attrition, I'd say most of our fan base was hoping for a 6-6 / 7-5 type year after last year's debacle. 9-3 including a road win over Michigan and a home win vs. Penn State has most of us feeling this team has overachieved and is ahead of schedule considering their youth. It seems that the locker room issues have been cleaned up.

Our QB (Brian Lewereke) is a RS Sophomore with great potential and this is his first year as our starter. He had a couple of 400+ yard games (including the game against Penn State) but has had a couple of ugly games as well...some of this is due to the fact that we've played in a few cold/sloppy weather games, which has limited effective passing opportunities. He is also a mobile QB and has ripped off some long runs this year. We primarily operate out of a pro style offense.

Our primary RB is LJ Scott...he is a 3rd year starter as a Junior but has had trouble holding on to the football this year. Overall he is a great talent but the ball security issues have been very frustrating. In spite of this, he may still be projected to go high enough in the NFL draft to leave school after his junior year.

Our top WR target is Felton Davis, a RS Jr. He has 8 TD's on the year. We also have a true freshman in Cody White who has been very effective and made the conference All-Freshmen Team.

Our OL is very young (like most position groups). They have done a good job pass protecting but we've done a poor job being able to pound the ball on the ground this year...very few holes for our RB's to utilize.

Defensively, I saw somewhere that we ranked in the Top 10 nationally in total defense. Other than the Ohio State game, our defensive line has been pretty stout against the run. Our DB's have been a pleasant surprise, with some young players like Josiah Scott being named to the all-conference team as freshmen. We typically struggle more with teams who run up tempo style offense and spread the ball out to make us tackle in space...WSU is not a great matchup for us in this regard. We are usually pretty effective against pro style / traditional offenses. We typically play press man coverage, which puts a lot of pressure on our DB's to perform.

Special Teams are okay. We have a true freshman kicker who was 15/19 this year...he missed 2 field goals at Northwestern, contributing to our loss in 3OT. Our punter (Jake Hartbarger) is very effective and might even be considered a weapon for us. We struggle to kick touchbacks on kickoffs and our return men leave a lot to be desired.

Our head coach, Mark Dantonio, is one of the best in the business, in my opinion. MSU doesn't get the most talent but Dantonio coaches these guys up. (Kirk Cousins and Le'Veon Bell were 2 star recruits, for example). Our campus is located 65 miles from U of M, 150 miles from ND, and 250 miles from OSU (3 of the winningest programs of all time) so recruiting is always a challenge. Most of our fanbase is frustrated with our offensive playcalling. We don't have the horses on the OL to pound the ball this year but the staff is too stubborn to go away from their run first philosophy and air the ball out a bit more. We tend to waste a lot of early downs running the ball into our O-Line's kidneys for no gain.

Unfortunately, I will be unable to attend the game in San Diego as I will be in Florida visiting family for the holidays (another reason I selfishly wanted the bowl game to be in Orlando or Tampa). I've already heard a lot of complaints that plane tickets are extremely expensive out of Detroit to San Diego during the bowl game time frame, I'll be interested to see how many MSU fans make it out that way. We typically have a very good following and have a large alumni base, so we shall see...

Your fans won’t be disappointed in the Holiday Bowl. San Diego is a great destination. Great weather and fun things to do. Here is to a great game.
 
Good write up! I’ve always been a Dantonio fan- he’s a helluva coach and puts together tough hard nosed teams. The Cougs will have their hands full in this game for sure.
I agree I read an article about him earlier this year. He runs a good clean program and does things right. Dantonio became one of my favorite coaches and I like his brand of football. I am very excited about playing Michigan State!
 
Kluegs...

Your line of thinking is outdated a wrong.

Holiday is actually the better bowl game that the Outback, and the concept of a NYD bowl game doesn't exist anymore.

MSU is on at night, prme time. UM has a boring noon matchup on NYD that no one will watch or be too hungover to see.

Also, Wash St is much better than. The winner of this game can feel good about themselves. 10 win season and you beat a top 20 ranked team.
 
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Kluegs...

Your line of thinking is outdated a wrong.

Holiday is actually the better bowl game that the Outback, and the concept of a NYD bowl game doesn't exist anymore.

MSU is on at night, prme time. UM has a boring noon matchup on NYD that no one will watch or be too hungover to see.

Also, Wash St is much better than. The winner of this game can feel good about themselves. 10 win season and you beat a top 20 ranked team.

I agree with you. The fact that a NYD bowl game chose two 8-4 teams just hammers the point home that there are no prestigious NYD bowl games anymore. I am mostly bitter as I'd planned to attend either one of the Citrus or Outback due to visiting family down there over the holidays.

I'm not sure I would consider 9PM eastern time "prime time," but I'm happy we get to play a far superior opponent to South Carolina in WSU, looking forward to the game.
 
Kluegs...

Your line of thinking is outdated a wrong.

Holiday is actually the better bowl game that the Outback, and the concept of a NYD bowl game doesn't exist anymore.

MSU is on at night, prme time. UM has a boring noon matchup on NYD that no one will watch or be too hungover to see.

Also, Wash St is much better than. The winner of this game can feel good about themselves. 10 win season and you beat a top 20 ranked team.

As far as exciting games go, I agree that the bowl committees got it right. 8-4 Michigan vs 8-4 South Carolina sounds good. 9-3 WSU vs 9-3 MSU sounds like a heck of a matchup. Big 10 and SEC fans will probably watch that Outback Bowl, but the rest of the country won't care. Last year, just over 4 million people watched the Holiday Bowl. I bet it's over 4.5 million this year and may close in on 5 million.
 
I agree with you. The fact that a NYD bowl game chose two 8-4 teams just hammers the point home that there are no prestigious NYD bowl games anymore. I am mostly bitter as I'd planned to attend either one of the Citrus or Outback due to visiting family down there over the holidays.

I'm not sure I would consider 9PM eastern time "prime time," but I'm happy we get to play a far superior opponent to South Carolina in WSU, looking forward to the game.

I'd argue only the Citrus is better than the Holiday/Outback. LSU vs ND is a great matchup of 9-3 teams and so is MSU vs WSU.

I love the Midwest power vs Pac10 speed matchups.
 
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I've been a big fan of State for awhile. Went to the tOSU/UM game at the Big House awhile back and couldn't handle that much villainy and entitlement in one place. Otherwise, big parallels with the UM/UW sense of entitlement and the over-achieving little brother in state. Plus, I've traveled and lived in a good amount of the country and the handful of MSU fans I've met have always been outwardly likable people. May the best team win.
 
So what's their beef? Based upon 2016 payouts, the bowls are almost equal in stature (money-wise anyway). THey would rather play unranked South Carolina than #18 WSU?
I think their belief is that somehow, the Outback Bowl is a more prestigious bowl than is the Holiday Bowl and that UM was favored over MSU for said bowl, simply because they are UM.
 
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I think their belief is that somehow, the Gator Bowl is a more prestigious bowl than is the Holiday Bowl and that UM was favored over MSU for said bowl, simply because they are UM.

Well since they are mad about Michigan being picked for the OUTBACK Bowl, I don't think the Gator Bowl is really the issue.
 
On a side note Jim Harbaugh is a d-bag for going after Dantonio on Twitter. Harbaugh is a d-bag anyways for that matter. And while I’m talking shit about Michigan their fans were pricks at the RB in 98. I think our fan base overall is pretty cool and I’ve heard from other non purple/pee fan bases that our fans are very classy in general. How are State fans regarded? I would think something similar and these two groups could get together and have a lot of fun without much douchery.
 
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Odds came out today with WSU favored by a couple points. Pretty surprised, honestly, but it cuts against MSU fans (or players) thinking WSU isn't a worthy opponent.
 
Odds came out today with WSU favored by a couple points. Pretty surprised, honestly, but it cuts against MSU fans (or players) thinking WSU isn't a worthy opponent.

I don’t think any of our fans have said WSU isn’t a worthy opponent. It’s two Top 20 teams. Many were disappointed with the date (and to a lesser extent the location due to airfare) of the bowl. We were fairly certain we’d be playing in Florida on NYD. Your offense is going to give us fits. Here’s to a great game!
 
On a side note Jim Harbaugh is a d-bag for going after Dantonio on Twitter. Harbaugh is a d-bag anyways for that matter. And while I’m talking shit about Michigan their fans were pricks at the RB in 98. I think our fan base overall is pretty cool and I’ve heard from other non purple/pee fan bases that our fans are very classy in general. How are State fans regarded? I would think something similar and these two groups could get together and have a lot of fun without much douchery.

Yes they were. I was tailgating on the golf course and some Michigan dumbass parks next to me. He has some BS tape or whatever blaring out the PA announcers recap of all these great games throughout the years. I asked if he could turn it down/off and he said some shit like "it's nice to have a winning history".
 
Did you catch Dantonios comment at the end? "I'll just continue to focus on beating Michigan".
Man I wish Leach would adopt that mindset regarding the ewe.
I didn't catch that but I 100% agree with you. Leach is so Ho Hum about the Apple Cup its sickening. There is literally no added level of intensity brought to the table by him for such a huge game and one that pretty much cost us a potential Pac 12 Championship. I kind of wish he would just go. I understand he has brought relevancy to our program again but if this is ceiling, then I'd rather see him GTFO. Especially if he continues to get embarrassed in the Apple Cup every damn year. I am so sick of the Cougs looking like garbage against those fvcks over the last 5 years. There is absolutely no reason for it. Starting from this point, I intend to be hyper-critical of him until he can show that the Apple Cup has some sort of meaning to the team.
 
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I didn't catch that but I 100% agree with you. Leach is so Ho Hum about the Apple Cup its sickening. There is literally no added level of intensity brought to the table by him for such a huge game and one that pretty much cost us a potential Pac 12 Championship. I kind of wish he would just go. I understand he has brought relevancy to our program again but if this is ceiling, then I'd rather see him GTFO. Especially if he continues to get embarrassed in the Apple Cup every damn year. I am so sick of the Cougs looking like garbage against those fvcks over the last 5 years. There is absolutely no reason for it. Starting from this point, I intend to be hyper-critical of him until he can show that the Apple Cup has some sort of meaning to the team.

I want Mike Leach to stay at WSU until he retires. The thing is, he has to decide that he wants to be at WSU. I'd hope that Schulz and the next AD understand that to keep Leach happy, they need to increase his salary by $100k-200k per year every time the team does well and that they have to support the assistant coaches. We need to find a way to build the IPF in the next 3-5 years and make some kind of a commitment to Leach on that.

If Leach wants more than that, I'd rather that he find that dream job and not turn every year into an annual crapshow of "will he stay or will he go". Even though Texas Tech's administration is pretty pathetic, it's easy to see how wearing it will become if every December just means that we have to run through this again.

Again, I want our administration to do everything reasonable within their power to keep Leach, because he is one of the great coaches of this generation. I just don't want our fans to think that we should bankrupt everything just to keep one guy happy. Getting to the quoted post, we are rapidly reaching the point where we need to beat the Huskies again. In two years, if we are on a 7 game losing streak to the mutts, it's going to be uncomfortable if Leach isn't hoisting a Pac-12 championship trophy to make us feel better about it.
 
I want Mike Leach to stay at WSU until he retires. The thing is, he has to decide that he wants to be at WSU. I'd hope that Schulz and the next AD understand that to keep Leach happy, they need to increase his salary by $100k-200k per year every time the team does well and that they have to support the assistant coaches. We need to find a way to build the IPF in the next 3-5 years and make some kind of a commitment to Leach on that.

If Leach wants more than that, I'd rather that he find that dream job and not turn every year into an annual crapshow of "will he stay or will he go". Even though Texas Tech's administration is pretty pathetic, it's easy to see how wearing it will become if every December just means that we have to run through this again.

Again, I want our administration to do everything reasonable within their power to keep Leach, because he is one of the great coaches of this generation. I just don't want our fans to think that we should bankrupt everything just to keep one guy happy. Getting to the quoted post, we are rapidly reaching the point where we need to beat the Huskies again. In two years, if we are on a 7 game losing streak to the mutts, it's going to be uncomfortable if Leach isn't hoisting a Pac-12 championship trophy to make us feel better about it.

Heaven forbid the athletic department get off their asses and dial for dollars to make the IPF happen. Do you know the last time I received a call for an additional donation? Its been years.

I would expect that, knowing Leach's history with extorting his employer for money every year that this circumstance would have been addressed at his hiring, with raises and his rollover all agreed upon. It would seem the real impetus for his searching for greener pastures was the departure of Moos (probably coupled with the passing of Floyd). However, as you said, its not fair to the school, players, or fan base to do this dance every year. If he wants out, make him take another job - we simply cannot afford to buy him out and still hire someone to keep the program competitive.

None of us know Leach - we've built up this image of him through gossip and message boards that "he likes Pullman" and "Pullman fit him" and blah blah blah to make ourselves feel better about his impending departure, that we all knew would happen someday. It sucks that college football is how it is and coaches get ripped away before bowl appearances and recruiting classes get destroyed, but it is what it is (which is sh!t, but the NCAA doesn't care enough to do anything about it...). I hold no animosity for CML, just like I didn't for CTB, but I want the best for my team and my school and if that means a swift departure so we can move on, then so be it.
 
Yes, good write up and summary.

It's interesting and surprising to learn the last time the COUGS and the Spartans played each other was 1977. 40 years ago.

Here's to a great and healthy outcome!
The "Throwin' Samoan", Jack Thompson, led the Cougs to a victory over my Spartans back in '77. I was there.

My wife is from Seattle and several WSU grads in her family. I've been to Pullman for a wedding. Fond memories. I've always pulled for the Cougs....especially vs UW.

This will be a good game. Contrasting styles. Our offense needs to control the ball and keep yours off the field. Kindest regards to all Cougs.
 
In addition, Sounds like you guys hate Washington as much as we hate Mythigan....also recently renamed as "Ole Mich" after poaching Patterson from Mississippi. We have much in common.

MSU fans travel well and you will find us very cordial in San Diego.
 
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None of us know Leach - we've built up this image of him through gossip and message boards that "he likes Pullman" and "Pullman fit him" and blah blah blah to make ourselves feel better about his impending departure, that we all knew would happen someday. It sucks that college football is how it is and coaches get ripped away before bowl appearances and recruiting classes get destroyed, but it is what it is (which is sh!t, but the NCAA doesn't care enough to do anything about it...). I hold no animosity for CML, just like I didn't for CTB, but I want the best for my team and my school and if that means a swift departure so we can move on, then so be it.
Gotta say Bleed... as much as you're probably correct in saying that we've built up this image of CML that he likes Pullman and NOW we all see the light that he isn't going to stick around forever... seems like you're just swinging from one extreme to another. He talked to Tennessee. Whoopy-skip. I put it back to you to ask, "How do you know he DOESN'T like Pullman?" Because he talked to another employer within his field? Do we know what they talked about? Do we know CML's true intent? Do we even know that CML is going/or has used this discussion with Tennessee to "extort" ANYTHING from WSU?

As much as you say we've all made assumptions about his loyalty and love to Pullman and WSU (which I probably agree with... I guess), it seems you are just making the same level of assumptions with different outcomes.

WSU fans just need to take a breath, close their eyes and recognize that everything will be OK. WSU took a step into "big boy football" when we hired CML. Remember? Football is a business! That means we wanted it to become financially important to the school, among other things. Soooo WSU can be "all in" on the financial side but the coaches can't? Any given coach shouldn't see what the rest of the world has to offer? If we just want someone that is an alum and loves Pullman and isn't concerned about the money and just wants to sing Kumbaya around the slip-and-slide in the summer, I think we could hire someone back. But if we are "all in" as a school, if we are going to be playing with the big boys, then recognize we are OK. We'll do as much as we can to do that. We may not have 'Bama's bottom line. And that's OK. Enjoy the ride, people.
 
In addition, Sounds like you guys hate Washington as much as we hate Mythigan....also recently renamed as "Ole Mich" after poaching Patterson from Mississippi. We have much in common.

MSU fans travel well and you will find us very cordial in San Diego.

I noticed that the prices for seats on the MSU side of the stadium are running about $10 higher than the WSU side.
 
Odds came out today with WSU favored by a couple points. Pretty surprised, honestly, but it cuts against MSU fans (or players) thinking WSU isn't a worthy opponent.
Nobody on the MSU side thinks WSU isn't a worthy opponent, quite the contrary. As others have said, it looked like a 99% guarantee that we were playing in Florida for the bowl game. Lots of Michigan people, myself included, are down there for the holidays anyway. I think SD is a much better destination, especially since it's unique to play there, but it brings in much higher costs of travel, etc. And the fact that UM with a worse record who we beat got the bowl bid, it just left a sour taste. But from a football perspetive, much prefer play you guys than someone like South Carolina.

No idea how this game will play out. MSU very much overachieved this year with wins over UM and PSU amongst others, but we're extremely young. I know you guys have lost your top two receivers, so I'm not sure how much that changes the game. Sounds like you spread the ball to a bunch of guys, so no idea if that's a major loss for WSU or just plug other guys in ...
 
In addition, Sounds like you guys hate Washington as much as we hate Mythigan....also recently renamed as "Ole Mich" after poaching Patterson from Mississippi. We have much in common.

MSU fans travel well and you will find us very cordial in San Diego.
I hate Michigan too. Their fans were pretentious assholes at the 98RB much like what we have to deal with in Seattle. I’m not a big fan of Harbaugh either and his field trips to Europe. Hope we get a good game!
 
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