Get to work and answer a single question since you want to jump into the conversation.
Missiles into Russia
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Already did. The answer was one more. That's what I need...one more. One from the US.
Now back to you, when EXACTLY was Ukraine going to sign a peace settlement that we and the UK blocked? You said it happened twice in 2022. You should be able to provide at least ONE specific date.
Btw, I "jumped" into this conversation in post #162. I'm asking for you to back up the claim you made in your response to me. Seems reasonable 🤣
Mountain Dew is my ZippFizz chaser.Mountain Dew is my life and soul.
Feel like I was on Futurama
Love that stuff, used to drink it a lot, but after a couple bouts of kidney stones and learning that caffiene is one of the causes associated with kidney stones, I have limited my Dew intake. Hate having to do that. Regarding a comment above about Mac and Jack's, that stuff has a nasty aftertaste that I don't like. Tasty enough while drinking, but aftertaste knocks it off my list.
Oh, OK. You want someone in the administration to admit they royally ****ed up and now there are a few hundred thousand dead Ukrainians, that Russia has seized more Ukrainian territory, and that US and other countries have blown hundred of billions of dollars in a failed attempt to bring down Putin's government and continue their Cold War hard-ons. That's sure going to happen with a lame duck administration. If I remember correctly, you were alive for Watergate and the Pentagon papers. And you've just experienced the Biden administration telling you the withdrawal from Afghanistan will not be like Saigon, that inflation was transitory, the border was secure and that Biden runs circles around his staff. All mimicked by the mainstream media. Despite that you're a good little brainwashed Democrat, sucking up the propaganda like a vacuum. Don't let your lying eyes fool you, Joe Biden is better than cogent. This is the best version of Biden, ever. He doesn't wander off during photo ops, or fall asleep during meetings. He saved NATO, singlehanded, and don't forget he solved race relations through a bilateral agreement with Corn Pop, while marching in South Africa with Mandela.
You asked another of your stupid questions in post 162, then faded away of your own volition when you found a poll showing Ukrainians want peace. So cut the BS.
The US blocked peace before the war started. The date of the ABC article is 1/12/22. "Together, the United States and our NATO allies made clear we will not slam the door shut on NATO's open-door policy," U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Wendy Sherman, who led the U.S. delegation, said after the meeting, calling them a "non-starter." What ****ing business is it of the US or NATO if a sovereign nation wants to agree to not join NATO or declare itself neutral like Finland and Sweden did?
NATO rejects Russian demands for security guarantees in latest round of talks
Talks between Russia and NATO countries aimed at averting a possible Russian attack on Ukraine ended again with little progress.
The US and the UK blocked peace in late March or early April by telling Ukraine to fight. Boris Johnson was the messenger boy. Scroll up and chose your own date.
Guess what is going to happen now- Ukraine will agree not to join NATO. Do another generation of Ukrainians need to die or get blown to hell so you can feel like a tough guy? Do all of the rare earth minerals in Ukraine need to be sucked out of there to pay off western banks, or can the Ukrainians enjoy some for themselves? If Zelensky waivers, does the US support another coup to get him out and insert another genuine fascist, but pro-western dude?
Taking an early, long lunch again today Gibby?If I remember correctly, you were alive for Watergate and the Pentagon papers. And you've just experienced the Biden administration telling you the withdrawal from Afghanistan will not be like Saigon,
You asked another of your stupid questions in post 162, then faded away of your own volition when you found a poll showing Ukrainians want peace. So cut the BS.
The US blocked peace before the war started. The date of the ABC article is 1/12/22. "Together, the United States and our NATO allies made clear we will not slam the door shut on NATO's open-door policy," U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Wendy Sherman, who led the U.S. delegation, said after the meeting, calling them a "non-starter." What ****ing business is it of the US or NATO if a sovereign nation wants to agree to not join NATO or declare itself neutral like Finland and Sweden did?
NATO rejects Russian demands for security guarantees in latest round of talks
Talks between Russia and NATO countries aimed at averting a possible Russian attack on Ukraine ended again with little progress.abcnews.go.com
The US and the UK blocked peace in late March or early April by telling Ukraine to fight. Boris Johnson was the messenger boy. Scroll up and chose your own date.
Guess what is going to happen now- Ukraine will agree not to join NATO.
So two - oops three - things. First, You refer to Watergate, the Pentagon papers, and the Saigon withdrawal. Breaking news! I wasn't even a teenager when all that happened, so you were what - like 2 years old? I envy your memory skills. And the Afghan withdrawal, first promised by Trump, was a mess, mainly because the Afghans couldn't even slow down the Taliban. And suicide bombs happen. It sucked. But yeah, it was all Biden and the Democrats fault.
Second, you refer back to post #162 in your post #324. Obsess much about winning your little argument? And how do you have so much time on your hands to meander around through hundreds of posts? Unlike some of us, I thought you had a day job.
Third, you completely distort the gist of the article you linked (good read by the way so kudos to you for finding it in your free time). I quote the article:
"But NATO unanimously rebuffed Moscow's core demands for formal guarantees that Ukraine will never join NATO and that the alliance will pull back its forces from countries in Eastern Europe that joined after the Cold War. Russia and the United States held talks on Monday in Geneva where Moscow pressed those demands and which the U.S. rejected as impossible."
Your post infers that somehow the US was forcing Ukraine to try to join NATO. To paraphrase your comment, no it not the US's F-ing business if Ukraine didn't/doesn't want to join NATO. And nowhere in the article does it say the US was doing anything to force them to join. Your dots don't connect. And the quote above - Russia demanded that Ukraine never join NATO, and that other Eastern European countries "pull back"? Who was trying to force who? Not the US. Of course the US and NATO would reject that BS demand.
Now carry on. Me? Time for another delicious cup of coffee. Think I'll wait until the FB game to crack a Coors Light. Or maybe not. Because I can do whatever the F I want whenever I want to do it. Although you don't seem to be far off with your frequent during work hours posting. Hahahaha!
This is another example of not everything being about you. It is not time consuming to read and write. Watergate was before my time.Taking an early, long lunch again today Gibby?
So two - oops three - things. First, You refer to Watergate, the Pentagon papers, and the Saigon withdrawal. Breaking news! I wasn't even a teenager when all that happened, so you were what - like 2 years old? I envy your memory skills. And the Afghan withdrawal, first promised by Trump, was a mess, mainly because the Afghans couldn't even slow down the Taliban. And suicide bombs happen. It sucked. But yeah, it was all Biden and the Democrats fault.
Second, you refer back to post #162 in your post #324. Obsess much about winning your little argument? And how do you have so much time on your hands to meander around through hundreds of posts? Unlike some of us, I thought you had a day job.
Third, you completely distort the gist of the article you linked (good read by the way so kudos to you for finding it in your free time). I quote the article:
"But NATO unanimously rebuffed Moscow's core demands for formal guarantees that Ukraine will never join NATO and that the alliance will pull back its forces from countries in Eastern Europe that joined after the Cold War. Russia and the United States held talks on Monday in Geneva where Moscow pressed those demands and which the U.S. rejected as impossible."
Your post infers that somehow the US was forcing Ukraine to try to join NATO. To paraphrase your comment, no it not the US's F-ing business if Ukraine didn't/doesn't want to join NATO. And nowhere in the article does it say the US was doing anything to force them to join. Your dots don't connect. And the quote above - Russia demanded that Ukraine never join NATO, and that other Eastern European countries "pull back"? Who was trying to force who? Not the US. Of course the US and NATO would reject that BS demand.
Now carry on. Me? Time for another delicious cup of coffee. Think I'll wait until the FB game to crack a Coors Light. Or maybe not. Because I can do whatever the F I want whenever I want to do it. Although you don't seem to be far off with your frequent during work hours posting. Hahahaha!
There are no dots to connect. Presumably, the pull back refers to US or other NATO troops or installations in Poland or the Baltics. Obviously, the specifics are not listed in the article. Sounds similar to Cuban Missile Crisis when the US wanted nukes out of Cuba and the Soviet Union wanted nukes out of Turkey.
Ukraine is a sovereign nation and is perfectly capable of applying for NATO membership or not doing so. Unless you want to deep six peace talks in order to add another NATO country on Russia's border, there is no reason for the US and NATO to somehow decide that Ukraine cannot make its own decision for whatever reason(s) it wants regarding NATO membership. I'm repeating that for decades Finland and Sweden were neutral.
The US has had it fingers all over Ukraine for years. Now even if there is a peace deal, Ukraine is ruined. A whole generation of Ukrainians are dead and Ukraine will have to mortgage itself to the west to rebuild. I'm sure Raytheon and JP Morgan are pleased.
Lots of words and obfuscation, counselor. But you made a SPECIFIC claim. The burden of proof is on YOU to support that claim.Oh, OK. You want someone in the administration to admit they royally ****ed up and now there are a few hundred thousand dead Ukrainians, that Russia has seized more Ukrainian territory, and that US and other countries have blown hundred of billions of dollars in a failed attempt to bring down Putin's government and continue their Cold War hard-ons. That's sure going to happen with a lame duck administration. If I remember correctly, you were alive for Watergate and the Pentagon papers. And you've just experienced the Biden administration telling you the withdrawal from Afghanistan will not be like Saigon, that inflation was transitory, the border was secure and that Biden runs circles around his staff. All mimicked by the mainstream media. Despite that you're a good little brainwashed Democrat, sucking up the propaganda like a vacuum. Don't let your lying eyes fool you, Joe Biden is better than cogent. This is the best version of Biden, ever. He doesn't wander off during photo ops, or fall asleep during meetings. He saved NATO, singlehanded, and don't forget he solved race relations through a bilateral agreement with Corn Pop, while marching in South Africa with Mandela.
You asked another of your stupid questions in post 162, then faded away of your own volition when you found a poll showing Ukrainians want peace. So cut the BS.
The US blocked peace before the war started. The date of the ABC article is 1/12/22. "Together, the United States and our NATO allies made clear we will not slam the door shut on NATO's open-door policy," U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Wendy Sherman, who led the U.S. delegation, said after the meeting, calling them a "non-starter." What ****ing business is it of the US or NATO if a sovereign nation wants to agree to not join NATO or declare itself neutral like Finland and Sweden did?
NATO rejects Russian demands for security guarantees in latest round of talks
Talks between Russia and NATO countries aimed at averting a possible Russian attack on Ukraine ended again with little progress.
The US and the UK blocked peace in late March or early April by telling Ukraine to fight. Boris Johnson was the messenger boy. Scroll up and chose your own date.
Guess what is going to happen now- Ukraine will agree not to join NATO. Do another generation of Ukrainians need to die or get blown to hell so you can feel like a tough guy? Do all of the rare earth minerals in Ukraine need to be sucked out of there to pay off western banks, or can the Ukrainians enjoy some for themselves? If Zelensky waivers, does the US support another coup to get him out and insert another genuine fascist, but pro-western dude?
The latest draft of a peace or negotiated settlement was April 15 with demands by Russia that Ukraine was NOT keen on agreeing to. So your "late March or early April" is ...again outdated. AND NOT SPECIFIC TO YOUR CLAIM. Let alone your claim of "twice".
All your other nonsense is irrelevant to THIS discussion on your unsupported claim.
Once again, you've made the predictable mistake of overextending your position. You are dangerously close to being down 3-0 in a best of 7 of these debates over the past 6 months. I don't want to get too far ahead of myself in these contests, but just what WAS your basis for making the claim that we (twice) essentially kept the ukranians fighting against their will?
You want something that would not occur, if it happens at all, until well after this administration is gone. The tell all books will recount tales of Biden crapping his pants and forgetting names. It will be years before Afghanistan and Ukraine get retold.
Another draft doesn't mean something wasn't blocked, or that Ukraine wasn't willing to agree. It means discussion continued.
What have you won? Was it identifying the Speaker of the House? Your brainwashed mind is probably not the best scorekeeper. I don't take pride in hundreds of thousands of dead Ukrainians, but go ahead if that's your thing.
You got your two dates. I never said I had two dates by the way. You keep adding things after the fact. That's what elementary school kids do when they're losing and they know it.
First, Biden never was documented to have crapped his pants. 'Tis an indication of the types of media you consume if you believe this.
Your argument has deteriorated into speculation. I haven't "added" anything, unless you truly believe asking for evidence to support your unsupported claim is "adding". You made a specific claim and cannot support that claim:
Ukraine was ready to sign a peace deal twice in the spring of 2022. The UK and the US said to keep fighting.
There's really nothing else to say. You have simply failed to support your claim. You clearly were under the belief there were TWO SPECIFIC INCIDENCES where Ukraine was forced to fight against their will and against their national interests. You said so yourself in the italicized part above. THERE WAS NEVER A DOCUMENTED MOMENT WHERE THEY WERE "READY TO SIGN A PEACE DEAL" once, let alone "TWICE".
Those were YOUR words and YOUR assertion. I've asked for proof and you've provided nothing documented. And now you've just added pure supposition and speculation.
Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, please, i ask you now to only consider the testimony of this defendant. It is damning in itself. Taihtsat
Also, why don't you just modify your statement to say "okay, maybe they weren't actually, officially ready to sign, but they were in talks, had agreed on a few things but nothing was finalized. But the west was not too keen on them agreeing to what the Russians were demanding and strongly advised against agreeing to their terms, that the Russians were no longer in a position of strength and Russia was now in a weaker position that could be seized upon on the battlefield." That's all you gotta say, but your enormous ego won't let you do it, so you keep doubling down on ignorance. Taihtsat
Where did I say "okay, maybe they weren't actually, officially ready to sign, but they were in talks, had agreed on a few things but nothing was finalized. But the west was not too keen on them agreeing to what the Russians were demanding and strongly advised against agreeing to their terms, that the Russians were no longer in a position of strength and Russia was now in a weaker position that could be seized upon on the battlefield."?
Why are you disputing that the UK and US blocked peace deals? Other than the brainwashing of course?
Tis also an indication of your lack of reading comprehension and sense of humor. IMO, say good chance he sharted himself more than once.
What difference does it make if it happened on April 2, or April 3? You keep wanting to move the goal posts. Now you won't even identify what three debates you're even talking about.
Read better. I didn't say you said that. I said basically WHY don't you just say that since your original claim collapsed.
I dispute it because there is no proof. Ukraine wasn't ready to sign anything, contrary to you mistaken belief. Taihtsat
Except for the proof you don't like. Three people involved in the negotiations.
YOU are moving the goalposts by running away from your original claim. In the last several posts from you, there's no longer even an attempt to defend it (that Ukraine was ready to sign peace agreements - twice) and no effort to prove the US was actively involved in blocking it. FIND IT!
As for the three debates: this one, your bogus false equivalency claim that the democrats were being hypocritical about campaigning on a protect democracy plank because of the way they nominated Harris, and your idiotic assertion that Biden should have called in seal team 6 to eliminate trump because of the Dems claim he was a threat to our democracy.
If you really want me to link to how you ran away from THAT one by throwing a hissy-fit by COMPLETELY avoiding my questions and accusing me of lying, I'd love to. There's a 5 or 6 post section in that thread that exposed the level of your weak debate skills.
You being an alleged "counselor" i would think you'd understand the value of precise language in making and supporting arguments. Taihtsat
All undercut by both links Willie provided and brought into suspect by the quality and bias of your source on the Israeli negotiator.
Plus, IT DOESN'T MATTER if they were all 100% accurate. You said Ukraine was ready to sign twice. They were not. Now you want to redefine the structure of this argument by ignoring half of your OWN position. And that's because you have NO proof. When asked a haf-dozen times to demonstrate when they were allegedly willing to sign twice, you got ZIP, nada, nothing.
Give them a metric measure. 10 centimeters sounds so much more impressive than 4 inches! ;-)
Wait...what? Didn't you get the memo that Biden has always been "on top of his game"..."very sharp"..."in command and asking great questions." Oh wait... that narrative/lie expired in late June.
Ask Ms. Ed and the other estrogen boosted "men" who vote "progressive." Those ladies will confirm he's sharp.
😆 🤣
