New OT - Where does your power come from?

[Loyal Coug1]

So living in YakiVegas, I have Pacific Power. I just assumed that most of our electricity comes from Hydro, with some wind and solar mixed in. Uh, well, not so much. Looked at the shit that comes with my bill for the first time, and it included a Power Contents label. Turns out 41% of my power comes from coal! and another 17.5% from natural gas! Only 7.6% from hydro, but at least wind is 15.8%. Now PP has kind oa a checkboard customer base that consists mostly of Oregon. But Coal?

Now Avista, covering most of E. Wash and N. Idaho, is 48% hydro and 9% wind. But still 33% natural gas and 8% coal.

Puget Sound Electric, which encompasses a bunch of the westside, is a little sketchy. Their website say that in 2014 (a decade ago) hydro was over a third. But they also have natural gas and coal from Montana. I do see that Seattle City Light is 86% hydro.

Need to do more research here, but WTH. Coal? Do those all-electric, dam removing granolas know or pay attention to this? Even natural gas does pollute and burn oxygen, right?

 

[95coug]

So living in YakiVegas, I have Pacific Power. I just assumed that most of our electricity comes from Hydro, with some wind and solar mixed in. Uh, well, not so much. Looked at the shit that comes with my bill for the first time, and it included a Power Contents label. Turns out 41% of my power comes from coal! and another 17.5% from natural gas! Only 7.6% from hydro, but at least wind is 15.8%. Now PP has kind oa a checkboard customer base that consists mostly of Oregon. But Coal?

Now Avista, covering most of E. Wash and N. Idaho, is 48% hydro and 9% wind. But still 33% natural gas and 8% coal.

Puget Sound Electric, which encompasses a bunch of the westside, is a little sketchy. Their website say that in 2014 (a decade ago) hydro was over a third. But they also have natural gas and coal from Montana. I do see that Seattle City Light is 86% hydro.

Need to do more research here, but WTH. Coal? Do those all-electric, dam removing granolas know or pay attention to this? Even natural gas does pollute and burn oxygen, right?

Franklin PUD:

76% hydro
10% nuclear
3% Natural gas
2% wind
9% other

I’m OK with this mix. Wind power is a scam

 

[Flatlandcoug]

In Kansas:

39% coal
28% wind
24% natural gas
7% nuclear
2% solar

 

[kougkurt]

Chelan County Power

Hydro

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Clark Co.

Not sure, but if its not 90% hydro there is something wrong with the world.

edit -

Stopped being lazy...

• 45.69 percent is hydropower purchased from the Bonneville Power Administration
• 34.29 percent is produced at Clark Public Utilities River Road natural gas-fired generating plant
• 5.85 percent is produced by nuclear electricity (BPA purchases the output of the Columbia Generating Station located in Richland Washington)
• 4.15 percent is wind power generated at the Combine Hills II wind farm near Milton Freewater, OR
• 10.02 percent is market purchased power from non-specified sources

That 10% has my eco-liberal-way-too-expensive-bullshit meter going off.

 

[Stretch 74]

So living in YakiVegas, I have Pacific Power. I just assumed that most of our electricity comes from Hydro, with some wind and solar mixed in. Uh, well, not so much. Looked at the shit that comes with my bill for the first time, and it included a Power Contents label. Turns out 41% of my power comes from coal! and another 17.5% from natural gas! Only 7.6% from hydro, but at least wind is 15.8%. Now PP has kind oa a checkboard customer base that consists mostly of Oregon. But Coal?

Now Avista, covering most of E. Wash and N. Idaho, is 48% hydro and 9% wind. But still 33% natural gas and 8% coal.

Puget Sound Electric, which encompasses a bunch of the westside, is a little sketchy. Their website say that in 2014 (a decade ago) hydro was over a third. But they also have natural gas and coal from Montana. I do see that Seattle City Light is 86% hydro.

Need to do more research here, but WTH. Coal? Do those all-electric, dam removing granolas know or pay attention to this? Even natural gas does pollute and burn oxygen, right?

Isn't it just really great how all those EV's are saving the world by not burning any fossil fuels? LOL!

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Isn't it just really great how all those EV's are saving the world by not burning any fossil fuels? LOL!

The EV craze was obviously over-hyped...but it's important to remember that the energy required is harnessed far more efficiently at the industrial scale than it is on an individual small engine basis. Fossil fuels burned in plants may not be great for the environment...but way better than cars.

Long term, I believe that solar power and nuclear power are better solutions...but that said, there's been a lot of resistance to solar farms in my area.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

The EV craze was obviously over-hyped...but it's important to remember that the energy required is harnessed far more efficiently at the industrial scale than it is on an individual small engine basis. Fossil fuels burned in plants may not be great for the environment...but way better than cars.

Long term, I believe that solar power and nuclear power are better solutions...but that said, there's been a lot of resistance to solar farms in my area.

The EV vs combustion engine thing is the biggest scam foisted on the American public since... hell, I don't know, ever? A bunch of politicians found something they could virtue signal about with little to no risk and meanwhile insider trade to enrich themselves and their friends. American's driving EVs is going to make a rats ass of difference in the totality of global warming, and anyone with two brain cells to rub together or the willingness to educate themselves knows it.

Does that mean we shouldn't strive to do better and be better stewards of our planet? Of course not, but if you're not in the cult of EV then... yup, you get cancelled. Wanna know about the incentives in Jay Inslee's progressive WA state for getting an EV? You get a tax credit on the sale or lease of and EV up to about 25% of the tax bill. So instead of $4500 you'd pay $3500. Man... got me rushing out to get one. Of course there are the federal incentives... if you're not too wealthy, because f them driving EVs, right?

Alright, I'm done.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

The EV craze was obviously over-hyped...but it's important to remember that the energy required is harnessed far more efficiently at the industrial scale than it is on an individual small engine basis. Fossil fuels burned in plants may not be great for the environment...but way better than cars.

Long term, I believe that solar power and nuclear power are better solutions...but that said, there's been a lot of resistance to solar farms in my area.

Here in YakiVegas County the commissioners put a moratorium on solar farms, postponing a huge project, and fighting the state utilities people and landowners in the process. They are all worried about using up potential farmland. This "farmland" currently has no water and has a robust crop of sagebrush and rattlesnakes. We are talking BFE. Meanwhile orchards closer to civilization continue to be torn out to make room for new apartments. There is no shortage of non-productive land out this way. Try driving from Yakima to Othello sometime. Idiocy. Yakivagas does have a lot of residential solar. An ex-GF of mine had a nice array on her house and had a negative electric bill most of the year, which stockpiled and covered her over the winter until about March. Ex wife is totally off the grid with solar at her lake cabin off Lake CDA.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

The EV vs combustion engine thing is the biggest scam foisted on the American public since... hell, I don't know, ever? A bunch of politicians found something they could virtue signal about with little to no risk and meanwhile insider trade to enrich themselves and their friends. American's driving EVs is going to make a rats ass of difference in the totality of global warming, and anyone with two brain cells to rub together or the willingness to educate themselves knows it.

Does that mean we shouldn't strive to do better and be better stewards of our planet? Of course not, but if you're not in the cult of EV then... yup, you get cancelled. Wanna know about the incentives in Jay Inslee's progressive WA state for getting an EV? You get a tax credit on the sale or lease of and EV up to about 25% of the tax bill. So instead of $4500 you'd pay $3500. Man... got me rushing out to get one. Of course there are the federal incentives... if you're not too wealthy, because f them driving EVs, right?

Alright, I'm done.

FWIW, the electric vehicle movement is not isolated to the US and everyone with two brain cells to rub together knows that. China has sold over three times as many EV's as the United States and Europe has sold more than double. Germany, France and UK combined have sold more than the US. California is the only state where they've really bought into EV's.

Electric car use by country - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

One of the side effects of the COVID fubar was that with only one month of reduced driving due to the shutdown, there were measurable improvements in global air quality. All bullsh!t aside, getting large numbers of people out of ICE powered vehicles and into EV's will have a huge positive impact on our planet. That said, the marketing and hype of EV's, particularly the Ford Lightning, was a bunch of crap. They glossed over the flaws of EV's and it bit them in their collective asses.

I get that EV's are not right for a lot of people....but that doesn't mean that they aren't the right choice for some.

 

[95coug]

FWIW, the electric vehicle movement is not isolated to the US and everyone with two brain cells to rub together knows that. China has sold over three times as many EV's as the United States and Europe has sold more than double. Germany, France and UK combined have sold more than the US. California is the only state where they've really bought into EV's.

Electric car use by country - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

One of the side effects of the COVID fubar was that with only one month of reduced driving due to the shutdown, there were measurable improvements in global air quality. All bullsh!t aside, getting large numbers of people out of ICE powered vehicles and into EV's will have a huge positive impact on our planet. That said, the marketing and hype of EV's, particularly the Ford Lightning, was a bunch of crap. They glossed over the flaws of EV's and it bit them in their collective asses.

I get that EV's are not right for a lot of people....but that doesn't mean that they aren't the right choice for some.

Global adoption of EVs isn’t practical. The metals required for the electronics and batteries are even more limited than oil, and will run out faster. Someone needs to think of something else.

 

[dgibbons]

Global adoption of EVs isn’t practical. The metals required for the electronics and batteries are even more limited than oil, and will run out faster. Someone needs to think of something else.

The perpetual motion machine and fusion reactor are just around the corner.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Global adoption of EVs isn’t practical. The metals required for the electronics and batteries are even more limited than oil, and will run out faster. Someone needs to think of something else.

hydrogen fuel cell vehicles are coming too. I also expect a bump up in PHEV vehicles where you can go 50 miles on a charge before the ICE engine kicks in. Still have to deal with fuel but it eliminates the range part of the discussion.

 

[roses04]

This is what Puget Sound Energy is telling me. Only 1/3rd is Hydro, which surprised me, as did Thermal Power. They brag about wind power, but 165,000 homes is less than 10% of all their customers.

Per PSE Web site:

The electricity we provide our customers uses a number of different resources. In 2014, hydroelectric power accounted for more than a third of our power portfolio. We also generate electricity with our own thermal power plants. We share ownership of a large coal-fired generating facility in eastern Montana, and we own several natural-gas-fired power plants in the Puget Sound region.

Wind power is a very important and increasingly prominent resource for PSE. We own and operate three large wind farms in central and eastern Washington. Those wind farms together produce enough electricity, on average, to power 165,000 homes. According to the American Wind Energy Association, PSE is the fourth-largest utility producer of wind power in the United States.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

This is what Puget Sound Energy is telling me. Only 1/3rd is Hydro, which surprised me, as did Thermal Power. They brag about wind power, but 165,000 homes is less than 10% of all their customers.

Per PSE Web site:

The electricity we provide our customers uses a number of different resources. In 2014, hydroelectric power accounted for more than a third of our power portfolio. We also generate electricity with our own thermal power plants. We share ownership of a large coal-fired generating facility in eastern Montana, and we own several natural-gas-fired power plants in the Puget Sound region.

Wind power is a very important and increasingly prominent resource for PSE. We own and operate three large wind farms in central and eastern Washington. Those wind farms together produce enough electricity, on average, to power 165,000 homes. According to the American Wind Energy Association, PSE is the fourth-largest utility producer of wind power in the United States.

Yeah I read that. Note the "in 2014, hydroelectric". That's a decade ago. Do others get those things in their monthly bills showing the power source breakdown like I do?

 

[95coug]

In general, I’m not a fan of wind power. Its supply side just doesn’t fit the demand curve, and it’s unreliable, and the massive manufacturing and construction costs eat into its supposed carbon reduction.

But, this is interesting:
https://airloomenergy.com/

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

In general, I’m not a fan of wind power. Its supply side just doesn’t fit the demand curve, and it’s unreliable, and the massive manufacturing and construction costs eat into its supposed carbon reduction.

But, this is interesting:
https://airloomenergy.com/

And I thought the windmills were an eyesore...

 

[95coug]

And I thought the windmills were an eyesore...

But you wouldn't see these from very far away, and they'd have no lights. Seems like they could even be rooftop installations.

Not sure I think they can generate enough torque and friction to lead to much power generation, but as an alternative to the massive tower installations, sure.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

But you wouldn't see these from very far away, and they'd have no lights. Seems like they could even be rooftop installations.

Not sure I think they can generate enough torque and friction to lead to much power generation, but as an alternative to the massive tower installations, sure.

Scroll down and look at the diagram. The posts are 75 feet tall and the fins stick up above that. Don't think I'd want that on my roof.

 

[95coug]

Scroll down and look at the diagram. The posts are 75 feet tall and the fins stick up above that. Don't think I'd want that on my roof.

They're scalable up or down, supposedly. But 75 feet is still way better than the towers they build now.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

They're scalable up or down, supposedly. But 75 feet is still way better than the towers they build now.

Funny how everyone seems to hate the wind turbines. I think they are cool. Out by Vantage. And between Spokane and Pullman. Driving along, and there they are, like big monsters. surprising data by Flat that wind is 28% of their electric where he is in Kansas.

On other posts:
The electric car stats are interesting, and I did some more looking. China's numbers are even more impressive when you consider that, according to one site I read, they have only a few million more total cars than the US.

The potential lack of raw materials to build all these EV cars is troubling. These things need to be considered by sane minds, not by the tree huggers. Same ones who want all-electric cars but want the dams pulled out too. As they drive their Prius's down to the protests. 95 - who has these limited metals? Is it.....China?

Anyway, I'm a big wind, hydro and solar fan. Solar is getting better and better. But it has its raw material issues as well per article below. And it is scary that so much of the necessary stuff comes from other, mostly 3rd world countries, and.....China.

Mining Raw Materials for Solar Panels: Problems and Solutions

A transition to 100% clean energy is an urgent priority worldwide to mitigate the worst impacts of climate change and preserve a livable planet. Solar power is jetting us towards that goal. By 2010, the US had installed 2.6 gigawatts (GW) of solar power, enough power to provide electricity for o

blog.ucsusa.org

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Funny how everyone seems to hate the wind turbines. I think they are cool. Out by Vantage. And between Spokane and Pullman. Driving along, and there they are, like big monsters. surprising data by Flat that wind is 28% of their electric where he is in Kansas.

On other posts:
The electric car stats are interesting, and I did some more looking. China's numbers are even more impressive when you consider that, according to one site I read, they have only a few million more total cars than the US.

The potential lack of raw materials to build all these EV cars is troubling. These things need to be considered by sane minds, not by the tree huggers. Same ones who want all-electric cars but want the dams pulled out too. As they drive their Prius's down to the protests. 95 - who has these limited metals? Is it.....China?

Anyway, I'm a big wind, hydro and solar fan. Solar is getting better and better. But it has its raw material issues as well per article below. And it is scary that so much of the necessary stuff comes from other, mostly 3rd world countries, and.....China.

Mining Raw Materials for Solar Panels: Problems and Solutions

A transition to 100% clean energy is an urgent priority worldwide to mitigate the worst impacts of climate change and preserve a livable planet. Solar power is jetting us towards that goal. By 2010, the US had installed 2.6 gigawatts (GW) of solar power, enough power to provide electricity for o

blog.ucsusa.org

Kansas doesn't allow wind turbines in any of our larger counties and farmers are very protective of their farmland in a lot of the other counties. Evergy is projecting most of their alternate energy growth to be solar.

 

[95coug]

Funny how everyone seems to hate the wind turbines. I think they are cool. Out by Vantage. And between Spokane and Pullman. Driving along, and there they are, like big monsters. surprising data by Flat that wind is 28% of their electric where he is in Kansas.

On other posts:
The electric car stats are interesting, and I did some more looking. China's numbers are even more impressive when you consider that, according to one site I read, they have only a few million more total cars than the US.

The potential lack of raw materials to build all these EV cars is troubling. These things need to be considered by sane minds, not by the tree huggers. Same ones who want all-electric cars but want the dams pulled out too. As they drive their Prius's down to the protests. 95 - who has these limited metals? Is it.....China?

Anyway, I'm a big wind, hydro and solar fan. Solar is getting better and better. But it has its raw material issues as well per article below. And it is scary that so much of the necessary stuff comes from other, mostly 3rd world countries, and.....China.

Mining Raw Materials for Solar Panels: Problems and Solutions

A transition to 100% clean energy is an urgent priority worldwide to mitigate the worst impacts of climate change and preserve a livable planet. Solar power is jetting us towards that goal. By 2010, the US had installed 2.6 gigawatts (GW) of solar power, enough power to provide electricity for o

blog.ucsusa.org

Most of the “green” power sources have practicality issues because they’re not on-demand. They generate when the wind blows or the sun shines, not when they’re needed. Coal and nuclear can essentially get turned up to burn hotter and make more power. Hydro can pass more water. Wind and solar…you get what you get. There are also significant efficiency issues with both, they’re high maintenance for a comparatively short life span, and their “green” status is pretty questionable if you look at the full life cycle. And that doesn’t even address their visual effects.

 

[NMBRCRNCHR]

Most of the “green” power sources have practicality issues because they’re not on-demand. They generate when the wind blows or the sun shines, not when they’re needed. Coal and nuclear can essentially get turned up to burn hotter and make more power. Hydro can pass more water. Wind and solar…you get what you get. There are also significant efficiency issues with both, they’re high maintenance for a comparatively short life span, and their “green” status is pretty questionable if you look at the full life cycle. And that doesn’t even address their visual effects.

Yeah, but who actually has to look at the wind turbines?! Sure as heck isn't the desk jockies in Seattle and Portland that think they are such a great idea. Driving west on I90, one of my favorite stretches used to be right at Elk Heights, looking north west to the Stuart Range. Now the initial view of that is littered with 200 feet tall monstrosities. Yuck.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Most of the “green” power sources have practicality issues because they’re not on-demand. They generate when the wind blows or the sun shines, not when they’re needed. Coal and nuclear can essentially get turned up to burn hotter and make more power. Hydro can pass more water. Wind and solar…you get what you get. There are also significant efficiency issues with both, they’re high maintenance for a comparatively short life span, and their “green” status is pretty questionable if you look at the full life cycle. And that doesn’t even address their visual effects.

Ok, so when the wind is blowing and the sun is out, you turn down/off the coal plant and nuclear facilities and hold back the water. I have no idea how the electric grid works with all these variables.

As a fact-based guy 95 I like to back up my assertions with some reference or data. So not that I don't believe you, but share some background on these efficiency issues, maintenance burdens, and life cycles?

All that said, what is/are your solution(s)?

 

[95coug]

Ok, so when the wind is blowing and the sun is out, you turn down/off the coal plant and nuclear facilities and hold back the water. I have no idea how the electric grid works with all these variables.

As a fact-based guy 95 I like to back up my assertions with some reference or data. So not that I don't believe you, but share some background on these efficiency issues, maintenance burdens, and life cycles?

All that said, what is/are your solution(s)?

I’m sure it’s out there, but I’m not going to dig for it now. I actually did quite a bit of work with the wind industry when I was consulting and learned about its deficiencies. Also learned that nobody would build or operate the things without big government subsidies, because the subsidies are the only way they’re profitable. Thats why developers and utilities get pissed off during spring runoff when the wind turbines need to get shut down.
You can “turn down” hydro for a while, but the river doesn’t stop flowing. At some point you have to let the water go…and now they’re not allowed to spill it all, so it has to go to the generators. When that happens, wind gets shut down.
Our power needs are too high. Wind can’t cover it on demand. We’re going to need hydro, nuclear, and combustion sources until someone can figure out how to make batteries at a megawatt scale.


Edit: ok, it was easy to find. Lots of sources show turbine life at 20-25 years, depending on environmental conditions and if it’s well maintained (minimum PMs every 6 months). I picked this one because it’s pro-wind. I was pretty sure I’d heard the leases on projects I worked on were 20 or 30 years, and that fits.
NREL

It doesn’t get into efficiency, but a turbine’s production rating is based on what it could do under optimum conditions…not what it’s going to do. They don’t generate anything if the wind blows too hard or not enough, or if they’re under maintenance or inspection, or if the grid is at capacity. With all of the variables, the typical turbine is probably feathered out as much as it’s turning.

We may start seeing some of these facilities reaching end of life soon. The PSE farm near Dayton went in right about 20 years ago, the one on Whiskey Dick near Vantage was soon after that. Then came the boom in the Columbia gorge and the ones near Pomeroy, about 2006-2011. I think the ones between Pullman & Spokane were toward the end of that period, but I’m not as certain of those. I think those were FirstWind, and I never managed to land any of their work.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

I’m sure it’s out there, but I’m not going to dig for it now. I actually did quite a bit of work with the wind industry when I was consulting and learned about its deficiencies. Also learned that nobody would build or operate the things without big government subsidies, because the subsidies are the only way they’re profitable. Thats why developers and utilities get pissed off during spring runoff when the wind turbines need to get shut down.
You can “turn down” hydro for a while, but the river doesn’t stop flowing. At some point you have to let the water go…and now they’re not allowed to spill it all, so it has to go to the generators. When that happens, wind gets shut down.
Our power needs are too high. Wind can’t cover it on demand. We’re going to need hydro, nuclear, and combustion sources until someone can figure out how to make batteries at a megawatt scale.


Edit: ok, it was easy to find. Lots of sources show turbine life at 20-25 years, depending on environmental conditions and if it’s well maintained (minimum PMs every 6 months). I picked this one because it’s pro-wind. I was pretty sure I’d heard the leases on projects I worked on were 20 or 30 years, and that fits.
NREL

It doesn’t get into efficiency, but a turbine’s production rating is based on what it could do under optimum conditions…not what it’s going to do. They don’t generate anything if the wind blows too hard or not enough, or if they’re under maintenance or inspection, or if the grid is at capacity. With all of the variables, the typical turbine is probably feathered out as much as it’s turning.

We may start seeing some of these facilities reaching end of life soon. The PSE farm near Dayton went in right about 20 years ago, the one on Whiskey Dick near Vantage was soon after that. Then came the boom in the Columbia gorge and the ones near Pomeroy, about 2006-2011. I think the ones between Pullman & Spokane were toward the end of that period, but I’m not as certain of those. I think those were FirstWind, and I never managed to land any of their work.

Fun Fact....my daughter works as an intern at NREL in Colorado.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Most of the “green” power sources have practicality issues because they’re not on-demand. They generate when the wind blows or the sun shines, not when they’re needed. Coal and nuclear can essentially get turned up to burn hotter and make more power. Hydro can pass more water. Wind and solar…you get what you get. There are also significant efficiency issues with both, they’re high maintenance for a comparatively short life span, and their “green” status is pretty questionable if you look at the full life cycle. And that doesn’t even address their visual effects.

Don't forget that the wind turbine blades are not able to be recycled or otherwise reclaimed, so they get chopped into large chunks and buried, where they'll stay for eternity.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Don't forget that the wind turbine blades are not able to be recycled or otherwise reclaimed, so they get chopped into large chunks and buried, where they'll stay for eternity.

If you read the NREL link in 95coug's later post, it's an article about research being done to recycle the blades.....

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

If you read the NREL link in 95coug's later post, it's an article about research being done to recycle the blades.....

just in time

 

[Stretch 74]

Funny how everyone seems to hate the wind turbines. I think they are cool. Out by Vantage. And between Spokane and Pullman. Driving along, and there they are, like big monsters. surprising data by Flat that wind is 28% of their electric where he is in Kansas.

On other posts:
The electric car stats are interesting, and I did some more looking. China's numbers are even more impressive when you consider that, according to one site I read, they have only a few million more total cars than the US.

The potential lack of raw materials to build all these EV cars is troubling. These things need to be considered by sane minds, not by the tree huggers. Same ones who want all-electric cars but want the dams pulled out too. As they drive their Prius's down to the protests. 95 - who has these limited metals? Is it.....China?

Anyway, I'm a big wind, hydro and solar fan. Solar is getting better and better. But it has its raw material issues as well per article below. And it is scary that so much of the necessary stuff comes from other, mostly 3rd world countries, and.....China.

Mining Raw Materials for Solar Panels: Problems and Solutions

A transition to 100% clean energy is an urgent priority worldwide to mitigate the worst impacts of climate change and preserve a livable planet. Solar power is jetting us towards that goal. By 2010, the US had installed 2.6 gigawatts (GW) of solar power, enough power to provide electricity for o

blog.ucsusa.org

Ahhh, yes-out by Vantage. I drove through there on Wednesday, heading to the PS, and not a single blade was turning. Drove back to Idaho Saturday and about 10-15% of those highly efficient monstrosities were SLOWLY rotating. Slowly being the operative word, and some of them were turning so slowly that you needed to look closely to verify that they really were rotating.

I recall reading articles in the past about how China controls such a large % of the market for the rare materials needed for both solar panels and EV batteries. Seems that there are some large deposits of those rare metals in Africa, and China has made deals with countries there where they invest in ports and other infrastructure in return for control of those mineral deposits. Some of those minerals are also used in cell phones, tablets, PC's etc.

How smart are we as a nation to allow ourselves to be put at the mercy of such an adversary? Not very, IMHO.

 

[Stretch 74]

In general, I’m not a fan of wind power. Its supply side just doesn’t fit the demand curve, and it’s unreliable, and the massive manufacturing and construction costs eat into its supposed carbon reduction.

But, this is interesting:
https://airloomenergy.com/

Seems like with all the great technology available these days that a short video showing the system in actual operation might, just might, be helpful our understanding and their promotion.

 

[Stretch 74]

Yeah, but who actually has to look at the wind turbines?! Sure as heck isn't the desk jockies in Seattle and Portland that think they are such a great idea. Driving west on I90, one of my favorite stretches used to be right at Elk Heights, looking north west to the Stuart Range. Now the initial view of that is littered with 200 feet tall monstrosities. Yuck.

I am SO with you on this!

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Ahhh, yes-out by Vantage. I drove through there on Wednesday, heading to the PS, and not a single blade was turning. Drove back to Idaho Saturday and about 10-15% of those highly efficient monstrosities were SLOWLY rotating. Slowly being the operative word, and some of them were turning so slowly that you needed to look closely to verify that they really were rotating.

I recall reading articles in the past about how China controls such a large % of the market for the rare materials needed for both solar panels and EV batteries. Seems that there are some large deposits of those rare metals in Africa, and China has made deals with countries there where they invest in ports and other infrastructure in return for control of those mineral deposits. Some of those minerals are also used in cell phones, tablets, PC's etc.

How smart are we as a nation to allow ourselves to be put at the mercy of such an adversary? Not very, IMHO.

Well the wind doesn't always blow. The sun isn't always up. Just another reason for hydro. And maybe a rebirth of nuclear. Need a quiver full of contributors.

On China. 110% agree. I posted along the way about their prevalence in the solar materials, and I think in battery components. Yeah we are f-ing ourselves big time. Wonder what would happen if there was a double boycott of all goods both ways? Seems like we would be in shit shape on the energy, agriculture and other fronts, while their economy would crumble. And they might starve to death.

The US really needs to do something significant on the Made in China shit. I was using a product today that I got on Amazon (I don't buy much stuff). Made in China. How about the US require that all products, store and internet, prominently display their country of origin (and not in the fine print on packaging).

If you are looking for a product, would you pay a few more sheckles for the one that says made in America? That is what this country needs to ask itself. Most of us can afford to pay a bit of a premium on certain things.

 

[95coug]

Well the wind doesn't always blow. The sun isn't always up. Just another reason for hydro. And maybe a rebirth of nuclear. Need a quiver full of contributors.

On China. 110% agree. I posted along the way about their prevalence in the solar materials, and I think in battery components. Yeah we are f-ing ourselves big time. Wonder what would happen if there was a double boycott of all goods both ways? Seems like we would be in shit shape on the energy, agriculture and other fronts, while their economy would crumble. And they might starve to death.

The US really needs to do something significant on the Made in China shit. I was using a product today that I got on Amazon (I don't buy much stuff). Made in China. How about the US require that all products, store and internet, prominently display their country of origin (and not in the fine print on packaging).

If you are looking for a product, would you pay a few more sheckles for the one that says made in America? That is what this country needs to ask itself. Most of us can afford to pay a bit of a premium on certain things.

For most Americans, the answer to that question is a resounding NO. Need proof? Walmart makes a shitload of money. If people were interested in "Made in America" Walmart never would have gotten out of downtown Bentonville.

 

[dgibbons]

For most Americans, the answer to that question is a resounding NO. Need proof? Walmart makes a shitload of money. If people were interested in "Made in America" Walmart never would have gotten out of downtown Bentonville.

And then there is the practical issue of are there actually any American competitors for most of the consumer crapola that we buy. I could use some new earbuds. Are there any made in America earbuds? Even if there are, at least some of the components must come from China.

It's surprising to me that shipping stuff (from the raw materials to the finished product) is so cheap that globalization is possible.