New recruit

[CougPatrol]

Leyton Smithson. 3-star kid with only other offers from Idaho & Idaho State. Plays QB, but we’re recruiting him as a safety. 6’2 / 190lbs.

Looks like he’s bounced around from Bellingham to Meridian, ID. Runs great. State high school sprinter. Another interesting find. Film looks great. A glider. Can he become a P12 safety? Dickert seems to have a good eye for these types of kids.

https://www.maxpreps.com/athlete/le...?videoid=146e9339-3cf9-4902-9c33-d866a849cc4f

 

[BiggsCoug]

Any idea what his track times were?

Found em… His 100m pr is 10.79… He is likely a 4.4 kid. He does what 4.4 speed should do in Idaho HS football.

 

[chugspig]

PWO?

 

[Observer11]

Was he approved by Tracy Ford before the coaches offered?

 

[kougkurt]

21.95 200m

 

[CougPatrol]

PWO?

No, he’s a full ride offer.

 

[CougPatrol]

21.95 200m

That’s a legit time. He looks like an athlete, but can he hit?

 

[ShockandAweWSU]

Eastern hasn't offered yet.

 

[mikalalas]

Eastern hasn't offered yet.

If his only offers are Idaho, Idaho St, then he is not a 3 star. Rivals, Brand X, SB Nation, scout, ESPN probably does NOT have him as a 3 star.

Now Verbal Commits or some Podunk not mainstream ranker may have him as a 3 star.

2,3,4,5 recent recruits of this ilk.

Is this what WSU, Dickert, etc, reduced to, recruiting at a level never seen before, and recruiting against FCS, Div 2 like Paul Wulf. Oh Yes, lets fill out the rest of the 4 to 8 to 12 spots with this kind of recruiting, yahoo!

 

[BiggsCoug]

How fast does he run?
How well does he change direction?
How quick are his feet?
The taller the better.

That’s evaluation 101 for athletes.

 

[BiggsCoug]

If his only offers are Idaho, Idaho St, then he is not a 3 star. Rivals, Brand X, SB Nation, scout, ESPN probably does NOT have him as a 3 star.

Now Verbal Commits or some Podunk not mainstream ranker may have him as a 3 star.

2,3,4,5 recent recruits of this ilk.

Is this what WSU, Dickert, etc, reduced to, recruiting at a level never seen before, and recruiting against FCS, Div 2 like Paul Wulf. Oh Yes, lets fill out the rest of the 4 to 8 to 12 spots with this kind of recruiting, yahoo!

At some point you have to land kids that have multiple P5 offers. Beating Mtn West and Big Sky teams for kids will get you fired inside 4 seasons. The classes will wash out and you will constantly be playing young guys.

 

[mikalalas]

At some point you have to land kids that have multiple P5 offers. Beating Mtn West and Big Sky teams for kids will get you fired inside 4 seasons. The classes will wash out and you will constantly be playing young guys.

Mountain West, BSU, Airforce, Wyoming, fresno state, SDSU, North Dakotah State, Appalachian, FCS National Champions, 2.5 stars, etc, with high upside, correctly evaluated would be ok.

Idaho, Ewu, Idaho St, Div 2, Whitworth College, CWU, is NOT ok.

Its not ok, because evaluation, and development have to be practically perfect, almost all the time.

Also finding, Developing WILL DERTINGS is EXTREMELY ULTIMATE HARD.

There just isnt a lot of Under thw Radar, Diamond in Rough, Will Dertings because

1. Idaho, Rural E WA doesnt usually produce Dertings

2. The Dertings are now more well known.

3. Coaches are more thorough in both their evaluation, searching.

WSU, Dickert, Rolo, whoever is WSU HC, needs to stop taking this ilk on a regular basis, in order to recruit WA, E WA, Idaho, etc, more better, to makecthe Tracy Fords, etc, happy.

Instead WSU, Dickert, Whoever WSU HC is, needs to recruit Norcal(sacramento, metro), Southern Cal, Bay Area, Orange County, LA, Oakland, Fresno, SDSU area, Texas, FL, Chicago, Hawai, Samoa, etc.

Plenty of 2.5 star to 3 star, to 3.5 stars that will goto WSU that are better then this ilk in WA, E WA, Idaho

 

[mikalalas]

Mountain West, BSU, Airforce, Wyoming, fresno state, SDSU, North Dakotah State, Appalachian, FCS National Champions, 2.5 stars, etc, with high upside, correctly evaluated would be ok.

Idaho, Ewu, Idaho St, Div 2, Whitworth College, CWU, is NOT ok.

Its not ok, because evaluation, and development have to be practically perfect, almost all the time.

Also finding, Developing WILL DERTINGS is EXTREMELY ULTIMATE HARD.

There just isnt a lot of Under thw Radar, Diamond in Rough, Will Dertings because

1. Idaho, Rural E WA doesnt usually produce Dertings

2. The Dertings are now more well known.

3. Coaches are more thorough in both their evaluation, searching.

WSU, Dickert, Rolo, whoever is WSU HC, needs to stop taking this ilk on a regular basis, in order to recruit WA, E WA, Idaho, etc, more better, to makecthe Tracy Fords, etc, happy.

Instead WSU, Dickert, Whoever WSU HC is, needs to recruit Norcal(sacramento, metro), Southern Cal, Bay Area, Orange County, LA, Oakland, Fresno, SDSU area, Texas, FL, Chicago, Hawai, Samoa, etc.

Plenty of 2.5 star to 3 star, to 3.5 stars that will goto WSU that are better then this ilk in WA, E WA, Idaho

And Dickert is a good enough recruiter to get the 2.5 stars, 3 stars, 3.5 stars in So Cal, Texas, FL, Chicago, etc, because of his Youth, personality, knowledge, X's and O's, how well he relates to these kids, and their parents, and their coaches, and because of his passion, energy, charm, charisma, etc.

No reason to waste his time on this ilk.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Mountain West, BSU, Airforce, Wyoming, fresno state, SDSU, North Dakotah State, Appalachian, FCS National Champions, 2.5 stars, etc, with high upside, correctly evaluated would be ok.

Idaho, Ewu, Idaho St, Div 2, Whitworth College, CWU, is NOT ok.

Its not ok, because evaluation, and development have to be practically perfect, almost all the time.

Also finding, Developing WILL DERTINGS is EXTREMELY ULTIMATE HARD.

There just isnt a lot of Under thw Radar, Diamond in Rough, Will Dertings because

1. Idaho, Rural E WA doesnt usually produce Dertings

2. The Dertings are now more well known.

3. Coaches are more thorough in both their evaluation, searching.

WSU, Dickert, Rolo, whoever is WSU HC, needs to stop taking this ilk on a regular basis, in order to recruit WA, E WA, Idaho, etc, more better, to makecthe Tracy Fords, etc, happy.

Instead WSU, Dickert, Whoever WSU HC is, needs to recruit Norcal(sacramento, metro), Southern Cal, Bay Area, Orange County, LA, Oakland, Fresno, SDSU area, Texas, FL, Chicago, Hawai, Samoa, etc.

Plenty of 2.5 star to 3 star, to 3.5 stars that will goto WSU that are better then this ilk in WA, E WA, Idaho

I saw film of Derting in HS. His talent was apparent right away. And we had 2 LBs with P5 offers on our team.

The talent base is in SoCal. To hell with everywhere else. It’s SoCal. Going anywhere else, unless a kid shows enormous interest, is wasting your time.

Also, think of NW kids like this…. If you took the best 10 players in WA and magically dropped them in SoCal, how do they do? Do they perform better? Do they perform worse? The same??? If the answer is “worse” or “I don’t know,” pass.

 

[mikalalas]

I saw film of Derting in HS. His talent was apparent right away. And we had 2 LBs with P5 offers on our team.

The talent base is in SoCal. To hell with everywhere else. It’s SoCal. Going anywhere else, unless a kid shows enormous interest, is wasting your time.

Also, think of NW kids like this…. If you took the best 10 players in WA and magically dropped them in SoCal, how do they do? Do they perform better? Do they perform worse? The same??? If the answer is “worse” or “I don’t know,” pass.

A 2 star, in So Cal is a 3 star in WA, E WA. A 3 star in So Cal is a 4 star in WA, E WA, and 4 star in So Cal would be a 5 star in WA, E WA. Its like that about 69% to 73% of the time.

 

[longtimecoug]

At some point you have to land kids that have multiple P5 offers. Beating Mtn West and Big Sky teams for kids will get you fired inside 4 seasons. The classes will wash out and you will constantly be playing young guys.

beating big sky teams for players get you a big sky roster

 

[triscuit one]

I think Smithson and the other recent HS commits fit a pattern. Find players that have size and or speed and coach them up. Not sure what else Dickert can do at this point as his status is in limbo and half his staff was brought in mid-season. I'm guessing this class will be transfer heavy sprinkled with HS kids with potential. His biggest recruiting win will probably be with retaining players currently on the roster.

 

[mikalalas]

I think Smithson and the other recent HS commits fit a pattern. Find players that have size and or speed and coach them up. Not sure what else Dickert can do at this point as his status is in limbo and half his staff was brought in mid-season. I'm guessing this class will be transfer heavy sprinkled with HS kids with potential. His biggest recruiting win will probably be with retaining players currently on the roster.

Dickert can go to So Cal, get So Cal 2 stars that nobody else wants thats better then this FCS, Div 2, Whitworth College, CWU, etc stuff he is getting out of E WA, Idaho.

These So Cal 2 stars that nobody else wants, they typically have some issue, like not weighing enough, grades, behavior, lack of best speed, late bloomer, etc, but are athletic, raw, have UPSIDE, can be coached up better then the FCS, D2 stuff in E WA, Idaho.

These So Cal 2 stars goto places like Fresno St, Long Beach St, BSU, Airforce, Wyoming, SDSU, etc, where said places make a living off these players and Dominate the Mountain West, and sometimes beat Pac 12 teams.

WSU can also field a good team made up of these players.

These 2 star So Cal players are the equivalent of 3 star, 3.5 star players in WA.

Mike Price, Mike Leach, Dennis Erickson, etc, feasted off these players.

These players will, would goto WSU, despite Dickert, coaching staff status, etc.

If you were a 2 star So Cal player, where would you go? WSU a PAC 12 college thats going to a bowl game, or Long Beach St, etc.

Its obvious that these So Cal 2 stars would goto WSU in a heartbeat.

Dickert is not recruiting these 2 star So Cal kids. He should.

He should recruit these 2 star So Cal kids over the FCS, Div 2, Big Sky, Ewu, Idaho, Idaho State, NIC(North Idaho College), Whitworth, CWU, stuff.

He is doing that, not because its the only chance option( It isnt as he could easily recruit 2 star So Cal kids)

He is doing it because he said publically that he is going to focus on WA, E WA, Idaho, etc.

And he also did that under Rolo. Its why he, Rolo recruited 2.5 star Kershaw, from Ford.

Its a losing strategy.

A winning strategy would be to recruit( and can easily get) So Cal 2 stars, 2.5 stars, 2.75 star.

But no Rolo, and Now Dickert want to focus on the losing strategy of not only focusing on WA, E WA, Idaho, but on getting FCS, Div 2, Big Sky, EWU, Idaho, Idaho State, NIC, Whitworth College, LCST, CWU, etc, kids from WA, E WA, Idaho.

Its a losing strategy.

And its the strategy that Paul Wulf did. And it leads to 9-40.

Which is where his focus, strategy will gradually lead to once all of Leach's left overs are gone, and the team is full of WA, E WA, Idaho, FCS, Div 2 kids.

Instead focus on getting 2 stars, 2.5 stars, 2.75 stars from So Cal.

Thats a winning strategy.

 

[BiggsCoug]

A 2 star, in So Cal is a 3 star in WA, E WA. A 3 star in So Cal is a 4 star in WA, E WA, and 4 star in So Cal would be a 5 star in WA, E WA. Its like that about 69% to 73% of the time.

Your percentage evaluation is ridiculous. It is 101% to 132.5% dumb, 222% of the time.

Your star system is not accurate at all.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Dickert can go to So Cal, get So Cal 2 stars that nobody else wants thats better then this FCS, Div 2, Whitworth College, CWU, etc stuff he is getting out of E WA, Idaho.

These So Cal 2 stars that nobody else wants, they typically have some issue, like not weighing enough, grades, behavior, lack of best speed, late bloomer, etc, but are athletic, raw, have UPSIDE, can be coached up better then the FCS, D2 stuff in E WA, Idaho.

These So Cal 2 stars goto places like Fresno St, Long Beach St, BSU, Airforce, Wyoming, SDSU, etc, where said places make a living off these players and Dominate the Mountain West, and sometimes beat Pac 12 teams.

WSU can also field a good team made up of these players.

These 2 star So Cal players are the equivalent of 3 star, 3.5 star players in WA.

Mike Price, Mike Leach, Dennis Erickson, etc, feasted off these players.

These players will, would goto WSU, despite Dickert, coaching staff status, etc.

If you were a 2 star So Cal player, where would you go? WSU a PAC 12 college thats going to a bowl game, or Long Beach St, etc.

Its obvious that these So Cal 2 stars would goto WSU in a heartbeat.

Dickert is not recruiting these 2 star So Cal kids. He should.

He should recruit these 2 star So Cal kids over the FCS, Div 2, Big Sky, Ewu, Idaho, Idaho State, NIC(North Idaho College), Whitworth, CWU, stuff.

He is doing that, not because its the only chance option( It isnt as he could easily recruit 2 star So Cal kids)

He is doing it because he said publically that he is going to focus on WA, E WA, Idaho, etc.

And he also did that under Rolo. Its why he, Rolo recruited 2.5 star Kershaw, from Ford.

Its a losing strategy.

A winning strategy would be to recruit( and can easily get) So Cal 2 stars, 2.5 stars, 2.75 star.

But no Rolo, and Now Dickert want to focus on the losing strategy of not only focusing on WA, E WA, Idaho, but on getting FCS, Div 2, Big Sky, EWU, Idaho, Idaho State, NIC, Whitworth College, LCST, CWU, etc, kids from WA, E WA, Idaho.

Its a losing strategy.

And its the strategy that Paul Wulf did. And it leads to 9-40.

Which is where his focus, strategy will gradually lead to once all of Leach's left overs are gone, and the team is full of WA, E WA, Idaho, FCS, Div 2 kids.

Instead focus on getting 2 stars, 2.5 stars, 2.75 stars from So Cal.

Thats a winning strategy.

Long Beach State doesn’t have a football team.

Your star system is made up. There are no 2.25, 2.5, 2.75, etc rankings.

Dickert will be fired in 4 seasons, maybe sooner, if this is his recruiting focus. It is cowardice to focus on the PNW and not go to SoCal. You have to compete. You have to walk into a school and win recruits. Hiding out in the PNW, taking Big Sky kids because you’re afraid of losing in SoCal doesn’t help your team.

Again, I’d pass on hiring Dickert. There are things he just doesn’t know about being a West Coast coach. There are things he just doesn’t know about talent evaluation and where to go to find kids. He needs to learn and the P5 is nowhere to start. Learn on someone else’s time and dime, just like Bohl told him to do.

You cannot spend your time in the PNW and build a competitive roster. You prob couldnt even find 10 kids per class that are talented enough. The talent is in SoCal. You either go or you lose.

 

[triscuit one]

Long Beach State doesn’t have a football team.

Your star system is made up. There are no 2.25, 2.5, 2.75, etc rankings.

Dickert will be fired in 4 seasons, maybe sooner, if this is his recruiting focus. It is cowardice to focus on the PNW and not go to SoCal. You have to compete. You have to walk into a school and win recruits. Hiding out in the PNW, taking Big Sky kids because you’re afraid of losing in SoCal doesn’t help your team.

Again, I’d pass on hiring Dickert. There are things he just doesn’t know about being a West Coast coach. There are things he just doesn’t know about talent evaluation and where to go to find kids. He needs to learn and the P5 is nowhere to start. Learn on someone else’s time and dime, just like Bohl told him to do.

You cannot spend your time in the PNW and build a competitive roster. You prob couldnt even find 10 kids per class that are talented enough. The talent is in SoCal. You either go or you lose.

I agree about not hiding in the PNW and So Cal recruiting and some what agree on Dickert. That being said prior to Smithson the last two recruits were from Texas and Florida.

Sorry if your hiding out in the PNW comment was directed to Mik. I have a hard time reading past the first sentance or two of his post. Maybe if they were shorter.

 

[CougInSpain]

Long Beach State doesn’t have a football team.

Your star system is made up. There are no 2.25, 2.5, 2.75, etc rankings.

Dickert will be fired in 4 seasons, maybe sooner, if this is his recruiting focus. It is cowardice to focus on the PNW and not go to SoCal. You have to compete. You have to walk into a school and win recruits. Hiding out in the PNW, taking Big Sky kids because you’re afraid of losing in SoCal doesn’t help your team.

Again, I’d pass on hiring Dickert. There are things he just doesn’t know about being a West Coast coach. There are things he just doesn’t know about talent evaluation and where to go to find kids. He needs to learn and the P5 is nowhere to start. Learn on someone else’s time and dime, just like Bohl told him to do.

You cannot spend your time in the PNW and build a competitive roster. You prob couldnt even find 10 kids per class that are talented enough. The talent is in SoCal. You either go or you lose.

We got to remember, he isn't even the permanent coach yet nor does he have a full staff in place to even cover this ground correctly. But agree with the fact that even when those things happen and he is still recruiting these types of players, he won't have a job much longer.

 

[BiggsCoug]

I agree about not hiding in the PNW and So Cal recruiting and some what agree on Dickert. That being said prior to Smithson the last two recruits were from Texas and Florida.

Sorry if your hiding out in the PNW comment was directed to Mik. I have a hard time reading past the first sentance or two of his post. Maybe if they were shorter.

If you need to go to Texas or Florida for a specific position, cool. If you are going there because you got smoked in SoCal, you have the wrong staff.

If you are the WSU AD interviewing coaching candidates, recruiting is going to come up. If the coach talks about a heavy investment in the PNW, he isnt the guy.

 

[CougPatrol]

I think we should put down the pitchforks and torches on Dickert's recruiting for the time being. If he builds his classes around local Big Sky talent only, of course be out of a job quickly, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with taking a few of these types of kids in every class.

In this particular case, he's a local kid, 6'2 / 190lbs who runs a sub 22 second 200M. If he checks the boxes with regard to character and work ethic, then he's absolutely worth the scholarship. I'll go so far as to argue that this is how we should be recruiting. With 25 scholarships and the transfer portal, I wish we could land 3-5 Joey Hobert types in every class.

As far the 2* California kid equaling a 3* Washington kid rating scale, that's ridiculous. Regardless of who we sign on to coach our program, I'd like to think that they'll have their own evaluation criteria. Dickert coached at Wyoming, one of the few programs that's more difficult to recruit to than Pullman. If he saw something in this kid that warranted the scholarship, I'll trust his judgement until I don't trust his judgement.

West coast high school football is poorly evaluated and has been for years. It's one of the reasons why we see more and more examples of Montana winning at UW. Utah State winning at WSU. Nevada winning at Cal. Northern AZ winning at Arizona.

 

[CougPatrol]

If you need to go to Texas or Florida for a specific position, cool. If you are going there because you got smoked in SoCal, you have the wrong staff.

If you are the WSU AD interviewing coaching candidates, recruiting is going to come up. If the coach talks about a heavy investment in the PNW, he isnt the guy.

Agree with this 100%. We need a coaching staff that not only knows how to recruit (sell), but more importantly, a staff that knows how to eyeball talent and find kids who fit the system. I watch plenty of programs like Arizona State and UCLA throw together rosters of "highly rated" kids from all over the Nation who never pan out. Conversely, I see programs like Boise State, Utah State, Wyoming, San Jose State, etc. find talent and field teams that beat and compete with P12 programs every season.

 

[Fab5Coug]

If his only offers are Idaho, Idaho St, then he is not a 3 star. Rivals, Brand X, SB Nation, scout, ESPN probably does NOT have him as a 3 star.

Now Verbal Commits or some Podunk not mainstream ranker may have him as a 3 star.

2,3,4,5 recent recruits of this ilk.

Is this what WSU, Dickert, etc, reduced to, recruiting at a level never seen before, and recruiting against FCS, Div 2 like Paul Wulf. Oh Yes, lets fill out the rest of the 4 to 8 to 12 spots with this kind of recruiting, yahoo!

He's a 3 star on 247.

And I'm not sure what you would expect Dickert to do. He's an interim coach. Most recruits aren't going to commit when they don't know who the coach is going to be.

I guess it's either this, or just don't offer anyone right now and hope the new guy can fill up a class fast.

 

[Fab5Coug]

And Dickert is a good enough recruiter to get the 2.5 stars, 3 stars, 3.5 stars in So Cal, Texas, FL, Chicago, etc, because of his Youth, personality, knowledge, X's and O's, how well he relates to these kids, and their parents, and their coaches, and because of his passion, energy, charm, charisma, etc.

No reason to waste his time on this ilk.

He's not good enough to do that with an "interim" tag.

 

[Cougsocal]

At some point you have to land kids that have multiple P5 offers. Beating Mtn West and Big Sky teams for kids will get you fired inside 4 seasons. The classes will wash out and you will constantly be playing young guys.

No doubt we need a head coach signed before the bowl game, like this Saturday, a.m.

Well, before the the vax crap hits, Rolo was strangely struggling in terms of the portal, commit numbers and quality, it hasn't improved since. The good new is, this is a brand new "wild west" era in terms to recruiting with the portal, additional transfer replacements and standard HS recruiting. There will be winners and losers in this process. We need a coach who loves recruiting and has a plan to take full advantage of this once in a lifetime opportunity and make us a big winner.

Utah State, facing them same circumstance as us in terms of coaching flight, went from predicted last place MWC team due to talent depletion, to beating us at home, to 8-3 and leading the MWC, Mountain, by skillful use of the portal. We need Blake Anderson, or someone with the similar mindset and vision.

I don't blame Dickert, you can't recruit with an interim coach and staff, but he does have a recruiting track record as an assistant. If it isn't that good, this isn't the time for him at WSU, regardless of a Apple Cup win. If his recruiting has been a bright spot on resume in the past, he might be the one for us because he does check the box in many other areas.

 

[Fab5Coug]

Dickert can go to So Cal, get So Cal 2 stars that nobody else wants thats better then this FCS, Div 2, Whitworth College, CWU, etc stuff he is getting out of E WA, Idaho.

These So Cal 2 stars that nobody else wants, they typically have some issue, like not weighing enough, grades, behavior, lack of best speed, late bloomer, etc, but are athletic, raw, have UPSIDE, can be coached up better then the FCS, D2 stuff in E WA, Idaho.

These So Cal 2 stars goto places like Fresno St, Long Beach St, BSU, Airforce, Wyoming, SDSU, etc, where said places make a living off these players and Dominate the Mountain West, and sometimes beat Pac 12 teams.

WSU can also field a good team made up of these players.

These 2 star So Cal players are the equivalent of 3 star, 3.5 star players in WA.

Mike Price, Mike Leach, Dennis Erickson, etc, feasted off these players.

These players will, would goto WSU, despite Dickert, coaching staff status, etc.

If you were a 2 star So Cal player, where would you go? WSU a PAC 12 college thats going to a bowl game, or Long Beach St, etc.

Its obvious that these So Cal 2 stars would goto WSU in a heartbeat.

Dickert is not recruiting these 2 star So Cal kids. He should.

He should recruit these 2 star So Cal kids over the FCS, Div 2, Big Sky, Ewu, Idaho, Idaho State, NIC(North Idaho College), Whitworth, CWU, stuff.

He is doing that, not because its the only chance option( It isnt as he could easily recruit 2 star So Cal kids)

He is doing it because he said publically that he is going to focus on WA, E WA, Idaho, etc.

And he also did that under Rolo. Its why he, Rolo recruited 2.5 star Kershaw, from Ford.

Its a losing strategy.

A winning strategy would be to recruit( and can easily get) So Cal 2 stars, 2.5 stars, 2.75 star.

But no Rolo, and Now Dickert want to focus on the losing strategy of not only focusing on WA, E WA, Idaho, but on getting FCS, Div 2, Big Sky, EWU, Idaho, Idaho State, NIC, Whitworth College, LCST, CWU, etc, kids from WA, E WA, Idaho.

Its a losing strategy.

And its the strategy that Paul Wulf did. And it leads to 9-40.

Which is where his focus, strategy will gradually lead to once all of Leach's left overs are gone, and the team is full of WA, E WA, Idaho, FCS, Div 2 kids.

Instead focus on getting 2 stars, 2.5 stars, 2.75 stars from So Cal.

Thats a winning strategy.

I don't know what you're going on about. Dickert has landed 3 recruits since Rolo was fired. One from WA, one from TX & one from FL.

 

[Fab5Coug]

Long Beach State doesn’t have a football team.

Your star system is made up. There are no 2.25, 2.5, 2.75, etc rankings.

Dickert will be fired in 4 seasons, maybe sooner, if this is his recruiting focus. It is cowardice to focus on the PNW and not go to SoCal. You have to compete. You have to walk into a school and win recruits. Hiding out in the PNW, taking Big Sky kids because you’re afraid of losing in SoCal doesn’t help your team.

Again, I’d pass on hiring Dickert. There are things he just doesn’t know about being a West Coast coach. There are things he just doesn’t know about talent evaluation and where to go to find kids. He needs to learn and the P5 is nowhere to start. Learn on someone else’s time and dime, just like Bohl told him to do.

You cannot spend your time in the PNW and build a competitive roster. You prob couldnt even find 10 kids per class that are talented enough. The talent is in SoCal. You either go or you lose.

I agree with your premise, but again, 3 commits, WA, TX, FL. Truth is, he's not going to land anyone of value while he's an interim coach, regardless of where they are from.

 

[chugspig]

The film passes the eye test. Seems like a guy who could pick up late offers from some competitive schools. Still don’t like the trend overall though.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

Interesting thread. Some quality discussion, little or no name calling. Glad we may be somewhat back to that level of discourse.

I've lived in SoCal for over 30 years now, and whether I know anything or not, I'm like everybody else and have a few opinions. I'll share some here, since they seem to fit.

First, as many of you know, California breaks state championships into various levels that include leagues based on both school size and past competitive history with other leagues. They also split the state up. There are simply too many teams and too many leagues to do otherwise. Now and then a league will have sustained success and move up a classification, or the reverse will happen.

The top two segments in SoCal are as good of high school ball as I've seen, and I lived most of my 20's in Texas and Oklahoma. Those two classifications have teams that can play with anyone, anywhere.

As you drop classifications, the competitive level of course drops with it. As does the frequency of P5 athletes. That does not mean that even the smallest classification doesn't occasionally have a P5 kid, but you could probably rely on the 80/20 rule to apply to maybe the top 3 SoCal classifications and the rest would perhaps have the remaining 20% of the kids at that DNA level.

As Biggs is prone to say, coaching matters, and while virtually every team in the top 2 classifications has a good staff, the coaching also becomes more spotty as you drop classes from there. I'd go so far as to say that when a team has a couple of years of success and bumps up a classification, it is almost always related to a good coaching staff.

The private schools compensate everybody...players, parents, older relatives, you name it, in their effort to corral the top players. The intense cultural differences between the OC/LA county privates and the top Inland Empire public league (which includes Norco and the Corona schools) lets those public schools concentrate talent at a similar level to the privates, and makes for a very interesting dynamic each year. The combination of both of those groups all by themselves might have half of the SoCal P5 kids in a given year.

San Diego and Sacramento are their own worlds. You hamstring yourself by trying to cover either one along with some portion of the adjoining large areas. If you are serious about California, you dedicate one person to Sacramento and the San Joaquin valley (if you wanted to have a toe in the Reno/north Nevada market you could combine that with Sacramento) and another to San Diego county (and if you could not justify a recruiter for San Diego alone, throw in Vegas...but the San Diego/OC combination...while it looks attractive on a map...is not the ideal combination that it appears to be for a lot of reasons). Then you need at least 4 for the LA basin. Plus, depending upon any existing relationships, you have to have at least one and maybe 2 for the rest of the state, including the bay area.

All that adds up to 8 recruiters for California and Nevada (in some respects Vegas is a LA suburb, and Reno has enough in common with Sacto that you could almost say the same thing) if you really want to maximize that area. There have been years when we barely seemed to have 4 that were serious about greater California, and with that kind of "spread thin" approach, you don't develop the relationships in the HS coaching ranks that provide the intel and foot in the door that you need as a recruiter.

Unless you have an assistant with an existing connection network in TX, FL, Chicagoland or someplace similar, the best use of resources would seem to me to be two guys for the entire PNW and 8 for greater California. Put your best 2 SoCal recruiters on the parochial, 2 best Inland Empire, and best northwest San Fernando valley leagues. 1 SoCal guy for the OC, though it is not the best use of resources to have your best guy there. Greater Sacto probably has a few more P5 kids than San Diego, but neither has a P5 "home team". The bay area is weaker than one might think for recruits, but the good news is that Stanford can't admit most of them and Cal has both relatively high admittance requirements and too many hands tied behind its back to recruit effectively, so over half of those bay area P5 kids are homeless from a "home school" perspective. Oregon's effectiveness in California has been helped by the SC and UCLA futility, though if SC hires someone worthwhile that may change and the Chipster is slowly making headway against the UCLA "waste all talent" football culture. One of the things that I expect to see is that SC's new coach will be from either the south or the midwest, and he will bring assistants & recruiting connections from those areas. Probably enough of that to assure that 1/3-1/2 of the SC classes will come from those areas, and that means more good SoCal kids being available for the rest of us. Chip is having success against SC in their coaching vacuum, and will probably be filling 80% of his class locally, though he is quite willing to go outside of SoCal. For some reason, there is not a lot of history of SC and UCLA going to NorCal. Draw your own conclusions there.

Long story short, we need 7-8 assistants assigned to greater California if we want to get full results. And I think 2 is plenty for the entire PNW.

 

[dgibbons]

Interesting thread. Some quality discussion, little or no name calling. Glad we may be somewhat back to that level of discourse.

I've lived in SoCal for over 30 years now, and whether I know anything or not, I'm like everybody else and have a few opinions. I'll share some here, since they seem to fit.

First, as many of you know, California breaks state championships into various levels that include leagues based on both school size and past competitive history with other leagues. They also split the state up. There are simply too many teams and too many leagues to do otherwise. Now and then a league will have sustained success and move up a classification, or the reverse will happen.

The top two segments in SoCal are as good of high school ball as I've seen, and I lived most of my 20's in Texas and Oklahoma. Those two classifications have teams that can play with anyone, anywhere.

As you drop classifications, the competitive level of course drops with it. As does the frequency of P5 athletes. That does not mean that even the smallest classification doesn't occasionally have a P5 kid, but you could probably rely on the 80/20 rule to apply to maybe the top 3 SoCal classifications and the rest would perhaps have the remaining 20% of the kids at that DNA level.

As Biggs is prone to say, coaching matters, and while virtually every team in the top 2 classifications has a good staff, the coaching also becomes more spotty as you drop classes from there. I'd go so far as to say that when a team has a couple of years of success and bumps up a classification, it is almost always related to a good coaching staff.

The private schools compensate everybody...players, parents, older relatives, you name it, in their effort to corral the top players. The intense cultural differences between the OC/LA county privates and the top Inland Empire public league (which includes Norco and the Corona schools) lets those public schools concentrate talent at a similar level to the privates, and makes for a very interesting dynamic each year. The combination of both of those groups all by themselves might have half of the SoCal P5 kids in a given year.

San Diego and Sacramento are their own worlds. You hamstring yourself by trying to cover either one along with some portion of the adjoining large areas. If you are serious about California, you dedicate one person to Sacramento and the San Joaquin valley (if you wanted to have a toe in the Reno/north Nevada market you could combine that with Sacramento) and another to San Diego county (and if you could not justify a recruiter for San Diego alone, throw in Vegas...but the San Diego/OC combination...while it looks attractive on a map...is not the ideal combination that it appears to be for a lot of reasons). Then you need at least 4 for the LA basin. Plus, depending upon any existing relationships, you have to have at least one and maybe 2 for the rest of the state, including the bay area.

All that adds up to 8 recruiters for California and Nevada (in some respects Vegas is a LA suburb, and Reno has enough in common with Sacto that you could almost say the same thing) if you really want to maximize that area. There have been years when we barely seemed to have 4 that were serious about greater California, and with that kind of "spread thin" approach, you don't develop the relationships in the HS coaching ranks that provide the intel and foot in the door that you need as a recruiter.

Unless you have an assistant with an existing connection network in TX, FL, Chicagoland or someplace similar, the best use of resources would seem to me to be two guys for the entire PNW and 8 for greater California. Put your best 2 SoCal recruiters on the parochial, 2 best Inland Empire, and best northwest San Fernando valley leagues. 1 SoCal guy for the OC, though it is not the best use of resources to have your best guy there. Greater Sacto probably has a few more P5 kids than San Diego, but neither has a P5 "home team". The bay area is weaker than one might think for recruits, but the good news is that Stanford can't admit most of them and Cal has both relatively high admittance requirements and too many hands tied behind its back to recruit effectively, so over half of those bay area P5 kids are homeless from a "home school" perspective. Oregon's effectiveness in California has been helped by the SC and UCLA futility, though if SC hires someone worthwhile that may change and the Chipster is slowly making headway against the UCLA "waste all talent" football culture. One of the things that I expect to see is that SC's new coach will be from either the south or the midwest, and he will bring assistants & recruiting connections from those areas. Probably enough of that to assure that 1/3-1/2 of the SC classes will come from those areas, and that means more good SoCal kids being available for the rest of us. Chip is having success against SC in their coaching vacuum, and will probably be filling 80% of his class locally, though he is quite willing to go outside of SoCal. For some reason, there is not a lot of history of SC and UCLA going to NorCal. Draw your own conclusions there.

Long story short, we need 7-8 assistants assigned to greater California if we want to get full results. And I think 2 is plenty for the entire PNW.

I'm curious about what happens with Hawaii and Samoa. That's the last of the "undiscovered" regions IMO. There are guys there that can play that cannot afford to go the mainland for the camps, clinics, etc. A personal connection between the recruiter and the local HS coaches appears to be paramount in Hawaii and Samoa. I don't think there is anyone left on staff with connections.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Agree with this 100%. We need a coaching staff that not only knows how to recruit (sell), but more importantly, a staff that knows how to eyeball talent and find kids who fit the system. I watch plenty of programs like Arizona State and UCLA throw together rosters of "highly rated" kids from all over the Nation who never pan out. Conversely, I see programs like Boise State, Utah State, Wyoming, San Jose State, etc. find talent and field teams that beat and compete with P12 programs every season.

You will not be a contender in Pac 12 play taking Mtn West kids. A few here and there? Sure.

The biggest issues with the Pac 12 are:
1) Poor talent pool in the West.
2) Their own poor coaching.

Last time I counted the entire West had 229 kids that were 3,4,5 star kids.

Texas had 225.

The South had 690.

 

[BiggsCoug]

I agree with your premise, but again, 3 commits, WA, TX, FL. Truth is, he's not going to land anyone of value while he's an interim coach, regardless of where they are from.

100% agree. And he is so far out of the conversation for kids and families right now hiring him does no good.

Kids stopped listening to WSU when Turd refused to comply. Then he got fired. Now there’s an interim HC. No idea who the HC will be or when that will be announced.

It is top to bottom disaster for recruiting.

It will be interesting to see what happens to the last 2 classes Turd signed. The entire roster actually.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Interesting thread. Some quality discussion, little or no name calling. Glad we may be somewhat back to that level of discourse.

I've lived in SoCal for over 30 years now, and whether I know anything or not, I'm like everybody else and have a few opinions. I'll share some here, since they seem to fit.

First, as many of you know, California breaks state championships into various levels that include leagues based on both school size and past competitive history with other leagues. They also split the state up. There are simply too many teams and too many leagues to do otherwise. Now and then a league will have sustained success and move up a classification, or the reverse will happen.

The top two segments in SoCal are as good of high school ball as I've seen, and I lived most of my 20's in Texas and Oklahoma. Those two classifications have teams that can play with anyone, anywhere.

As you drop classifications, the competitive level of course drops with it. As does the frequency of P5 athletes. That does not mean that even the smallest classification doesn't occasionally have a P5 kid, but you could probably rely on the 80/20 rule to apply to maybe the top 3 SoCal classifications and the rest would perhaps have the remaining 20% of the kids at that DNA level.

As Biggs is prone to say, coaching matters, and while virtually every team in the top 2 classifications has a good staff, the coaching also becomes more spotty as you drop classes from there. I'd go so far as to say that when a team has a couple of years of success and bumps up a classification, it is almost always related to a good coaching staff.

The private schools compensate everybody...players, parents, older relatives, you name it, in their effort to corral the top players. The intense cultural differences between the OC/LA county privates and the top Inland Empire public league (which includes Norco and the Corona schools) lets those public schools concentrate talent at a similar level to the privates, and makes for a very interesting dynamic each year. The combination of both of those groups all by themselves might have half of the SoCal P5 kids in a given year.

San Diego and Sacramento are their own worlds. You hamstring yourself by trying to cover either one along with some portion of the adjoining large areas. If you are serious about California, you dedicate one person to Sacramento and the San Joaquin valley (if you wanted to have a toe in the Reno/north Nevada market you could combine that with Sacramento) and another to San Diego county (and if you could not justify a recruiter for San Diego alone, throw in Vegas...but the San Diego/OC combination...while it looks attractive on a map...is not the ideal combination that it appears to be for a lot of reasons). Then you need at least 4 for the LA basin. Plus, depending upon any existing relationships, you have to have at least one and maybe 2 for the rest of the state, including the bay area.

All that adds up to 8 recruiters for California and Nevada (in some respects Vegas is a LA suburb, and Reno has enough in common with Sacto that you could almost say the same thing) if you really want to maximize that area. There have been years when we barely seemed to have 4 that were serious about greater California, and with that kind of "spread thin" approach, you don't develop the relationships in the HS coaching ranks that provide the intel and foot in the door that you need as a recruiter.

Unless you have an assistant with an existing connection network in TX, FL, Chicagoland or someplace similar, the best use of resources would seem to me to be two guys for the entire PNW and 8 for greater California. Put your best 2 SoCal recruiters on the parochial, 2 best Inland Empire, and best northwest San Fernando valley leagues. 1 SoCal guy for the OC, though it is not the best use of resources to have your best guy there. Greater Sacto probably has a few more P5 kids than San Diego, but neither has a P5 "home team". The bay area is weaker than one might think for recruits, but the good news is that Stanford can't admit most of them and Cal has both relatively high admittance requirements and too many hands tied behind its back to recruit effectively, so over half of those bay area P5 kids are homeless from a "home school" perspective. Oregon's effectiveness in California has been helped by the SC and UCLA futility, though if SC hires someone worthwhile that may change and the Chipster is slowly making headway against the UCLA "waste all talent" football culture. One of the things that I expect to see is that SC's new coach will be from either the south or the midwest, and he will bring assistants & recruiting connections from those areas. Probably enough of that to assure that 1/3-1/2 of the SC classes will come from those areas, and that means more good SoCal kids being available for the rest of us. Chip is having success against SC in their coaching vacuum, and will probably be filling 80% of his class locally, though he is quite willing to go outside of SoCal. For some reason, there is not a lot of history of SC and UCLA going to NorCal. Draw your own conclusions there.

Long story short, we need 7-8 assistants assigned to greater California if we want to get full results. And I think 2 is plenty for the entire PNW.

Wrong.

2 assistants for the PNW is too many. lol

8 assistants in SoCal is not enough. lol

Also, the way staffs have recruited is ridiculous. As a coach, you need to meet HS coaches for your own professional development. The idea that a guy is gonna be sent to a low talent producing area and help his career isn’t going to happen.

Imo, you don’t hand out territories. You take the entire staff to an area and get it done all at once.

10 coaches show up in LA. Everyone goes to 4 schools per day, 5 days per week. Rent a mansion on the beach, fly wives and families down for the weekend. Start all over the next week. 200 schools per week. You need to cover as much ground and as many schools as possible in the shortest time possible. Sending guys in every direction lacks focus. Also, when everyone gets back from their schools you can talk shop, compare notes, watch film as a staff. You don’t have 10 guys in 10 different cities sitting around not maximizing their time.

 

[CougPatrol]

Here are some additional measurables on this kid.

4.47 40
10.79 100M
39.7” Vertical
6'2 / 190lbs

I'm not ready to anoint this kid as the steal of the class, but these aren't Wulff measurables either.

 

[CougInSpain]

Here are some additional measurables on this kid.

4.47 40
10.79 100M
39.7” Vertical
6'2 / 190lbs

I'm not ready to anoint this kid as the steal of the class, but these aren't Wulff measurables either.

Nothing like recruiting a 2 star 240lb OT and then starting him later in the season. My goodness I am so happy he is not our coach.

 

[CougPatrol]

Here are some additional measurables on this kid.

4.47 40
10.79 100M
39.7” Vertical
6'2 / 190lbs

I'm not ready to anoint this kid as the steal of the class, but these aren't Wulff measurables either.

Now, for a CougED comparison:

Blair Bomber
5'8 / 165lbs
10.9 100M

😁

 

[roses04]

I'm curious about what happens with Hawaii and Samoa. That's the last of the "undiscovered" regions IMO. There are guys there that can play that cannot afford to go the mainland for the camps, clinics, etc. A personal connection between the recruiter and the local HS coaches appears to be paramount in Hawaii and Samoa. I don't think there is anyone left on staff with connections.

Well currently between Smith, McKnight and Morrison there is about 30 years of coaching and playing experience in Hawaii, Morrison coached Timmy Chang and Colt Brennan. Smith played and coached there. The question is what does this staff look like after we announce the new head coach?

Recruiting isn't rocket science, but it isn't easy and it's more complex than it appears, it's primarily about two things relationships and evaluation, developing relationships takes time, and a sincere sales pitch to HS coaches and players and parents about developing and caring for the kids, unless you have history and star quality and magic tricks like Leach, who could just show up, time to develop is the key here. Evaluation is the key thing, especially at WSU, can you turn that 3 star into a 2-3 years starter? Can you take the tall 240 kid and turn him into 300+ pound Offensive or Defensive lineman. A lot of that is knowing family history, and other athletic history. You not only have to sell the kid on yourself, but the school and his position coach, is he a teacher that can develop you. Dickert is short on relationships, as a whole new set of doors to schools that probably wouldn't give him the time of day in the past, have now opened. So that's one hurdle, and he has evaluated defensive talent at Wyoming for a few years, but he is going to have to up his standards in the pac 12. Needless to say these are both areas of weakness right now, to bridge that gap you have to find assistants that have the relationships and evaluation skills. That's why if he is smart he signs for a less than market but asks for assistant salaries above market. Steal some back from Oregon, I think their coach is gone if Florida or Miami come calling. USC will have coaches available, as will the UW, heck there is talk of Kyle Whittingham leaving UTAH. Just like Dickert happened to be in the right place at the right time with Rolo getting booted, he looks behind now, but he may get a head start on several programs that aren't looking for a coach now, but their coach might be gone in a week.

There is something intangible about Dickert that intrigues me, maybe he's been sprinkled with magic dust. Things seem to be falling his way right now, I guess we will find out on Friday and Saturday night.