New WR coach hired

[Glad Cougar]

No surprise that Andre Allen has been hired by Rolo to be WSU's new WR coach. He held the same job at Hawaii. Long time assistant coach at CCSF and was OC for Anthony Gordon, Easop Winston, and Robert Valencia. I'm not sure if that fills the coaching positions or if there's room for anyone else.

Glad Cougar

 

[kougkurt]

No surprise that Andre Allen has been hired by Rolo to be WSU's new WR coach. He held the same job at Hawaii. Long time assistant coach at CCSF and was OC for Anthony Gordon, Easop Winston, and Robert Valencia. I'm not sure if that fills the coaching positions or if there's room for anyone else.

Glad Cougar

They are all filled

 

[dgibbons]

They are all filled

I think there is one still open. Ten assistants are allowed now.

 

[kougkurt]

I think there is one still open. Ten assistants are allowed now.

https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2020/jan/27/former-hawaii-wr-coach-longtime-ccsf-assistant-and/

 

[BiggsCoug]

I dont think Ive ever seen a WSU staff with so much jc history. Should be interesting to see how they recruit.

 

[Glad Cougar]

I dont think Ive ever seen a WSU staff with so much jc history. Should be interesting to see how they recruit.

I'm generally not a fan of relying on JCs for any more than specific and limited needs. With a few exceptions, the JCs, like 4-year players, need at least a season to really help. By that time, you only have them for a season. (Unless you redshirt them like Easop). I'm hoping the emphasis will remain on HS kids despite the apparent connections the new staff has to junior colleges.

Glad Cougar

 

[BiggsCoug]

I'm generally not a fan of relying on JCs for any more than specific and limited needs. With a few exceptions, the JCs, like 4-year players, need at least a season to really help. By that time, you only have them for a season. (Unless you redshirt them like Easop). I'm hoping the emphasis will remain on HS kids despite the apparent connections the new staff has to junior colleges.

Glad Cougar

Typically what we have seen at WSU is exactly what you describe. Two years to play, one year of really being a contributor.

I think that has more to do with the level of talent or fit in the scheme. There are a lot of jc guys that do well for two seasons. They just havent gone to WSU.

The use of transfers, both juco and portal, will be an interesting development in college football.

 

[Brent H.]

From the offers they’ve given out as of right now it doesn’t look like any are JCers. Allen was there when the installed the Run and Shoot and had 3 receivers that had over 1000 yards so the hire makes sense. My hope from him being a JC coach that he’s able to cast a wide net. Find some hidden players in California that are looked over because of location, size of school or school’s on field performance is crap so they don’t get a lot of attention. Allen being at CCSF probably knows a lot of schools throughout California.

 

[BiggsCoug]

From the offers they’ve given out as of right now it doesn’t look like any are JCers. Allen was there when the installed the Run and Shoot and had 3 receivers that had over 1000 yards so the hire makes sense. My hope from him being a JC coach that he’s able to cast a wide net. Find some hidden players in California that are looked over because of location, size of school or school’s on field performance is crap so they don’t get a lot of attention. Allen being at CCSF probably knows a lot of schools throughout California.

Cal and Stanford aren't taking kids without grades. UCLA and SC don't really need to leave SoCal to fill their rosters.

Im not surprised SDSU has had a good run. Fresno State had success under Hill. SJSU has even had a good team here and there. Could probably throw UNR in there too.

The amount of kids in CA that go unnoticed, unrecruited or missed altogether because of the lack of in state P5 programs is a big number.

The first PAC 12 staff that actually does a great job handling the entire state, and I don't think it's actually been done yet, is gonna do well. There are tons of kids there that can play ball but find themselves jammed up somehow. No exposure, good player on a bad team, good player in the wrong scheme or position, multiple coaches changes throughout their career and never get going, late bloomers, etc.

The population is so big that there is no shortage of capable kids. Only shortage of coaches with the resources or talent to find them.

I have not been impressed with the SoCal recruiting at WSU for almost 15 years.

 

[froropmkr72]

I'm generally not a fan of relying on JCs for any more than specific and limited needs. With a few exceptions, the JCs, like 4-year players, need at least a season to really help. By that time, you only have them for a season. (Unless you redshirt them like Easop). I'm hoping the emphasis will remain on HS kids despite the apparent connections the new staff has to junior colleges.

Glad Cougar

If they land the HS guys that they've been looking at (large dlinemen) they won't have to go the JC route. They focus on retention and that'll pay off in a a year or so. Stack the line with large linemen then recuit the linebackers and db's they want for their defense.

 

[CougEd]

Typically what we have seen at WSU is exactly what you describe. Two years to play, one year of really being a contributor.

I think that has more to do with the level of talent or fit in the scheme. There are a lot of jc guys that do well for two seasons. They just havent gone to WSU.

The use of transfers, both juco and portal, will be an interesting development in college football.

The fact the guy coached at one of the best JC's around, it gives him some really good connections in Cali.

Maybe all smoke and mirrors, but sounds like this staff is like Kyle Smith and staff in that they are relentless recruiters. Doba and staff either got burnt out, lost urgency, or didn't sell wsu well. Wulff had the right attitude in that recruiting was 24/7, but didn't have the cred, Leach started out well in 12/13, and then struggled. Maybe staff turnover, maybe warn out, who knows.

 

[dgibbons]

The fact the guy coached at one of the best JC's around, it gives him some really good connections in Cali.

Maybe all smoke and mirrors, but sounds like this staff is like Kyle Smith and staff in that they are relentless recruiters. Doba and staff either got burnt out, lost urgency, or didn't sell wsu well. Wulff had the right attitude in that recruiting was 24/7, but didn't have the cred, Leach started out well in 12/13, and then struggled. Maybe staff turnover, maybe warn out, who knows.

Is this intentional lies, or willful ignorance? Wulff's lack of cred was the reason that Dahl chose Montana over a late offer from WSU?

 

[CougEd]

Is this intentional lies, or willful ignorance? Wulff's lack of cred was the reason that Dahl chose Montana over a late offer from WSU?

If I may go back to the 80's and quote Ronald Reagan...there you go again. What were the lies?

 

[CougEd]

Is this intentional lies, or willful ignorance? Wulff's lack of cred was the reason that Dahl chose Montana over a late offer from WSU?

But there is a point I wonder about...are you saying dahl would have stayed at Montana if Wulff would have been retained, or did he already make up his mind that he made a mistake and wanted to play for WSU, regardless of the coach.

 

[Brent H.]

Is this intentional lies, or willful ignorance? Wulff's lack of cred was the reason that Dahl chose Montana over a late offer from WSU?

Implying Leach stopped recruiting in 2013 was an interesting take. And lumping it with turnover as well. The turnover didn’t start until after the 2014 season with Simmons. It really took a hit after the 2016 season.

 

[chipdouglas]

Cal and Stanford aren't taking kids without grades. UCLA and SC don't really need to leave SoCal to fill their rosters.

Im not surprised SDSU has had a good run. Fresno State had success under Hill. SJSU has even had a good team here and there. Could probably throw UNR in there too.

The amount of kids in CA that go unnoticed, unrecruited or missed altogether because of the lack of in state P5 programs is a big number.

The first PAC 12 staff that actually does a great job handling the entire state, and I don't think it's actually been done yet, is gonna do well. There are tons of kids there that can play ball but find themselves jammed up somehow. No exposure, good player on a bad team, good player in the wrong scheme or position, multiple coaches changes throughout their career and never get going, late bloomers, etc.

The population is so big that there is no shortage of capable kids. Only shortage of coaches with the resources or talent to find them.

I have not been impressed with the SoCal recruiting at WSU for almost 15 years.

Since you brought it up, I looked at how SC has done in 247 class talent rankings over the last 20+ years. Only 1 class outside the Top 10 from 2002-2019, and it was #13. Needless to say, they are (were) at the top of the PAC pretty much every single year.

On the one hand, we're seeing how far the mighty have fallen; on the other, we're seeing how long a school and a market like SC can sustain recruiting success with LONG stretches of making zero noise on the football field.

 

[Observer11]

But there is a point I wonder about...are you saying dahl would have stayed at Montana if Wulff would have been retained, or did he already make up his mind that he made a mistake and wanted to play for WSU, regardless of the coach.

Dahl committed relatively early to Montana and stuck with it. He did get played a bit when Sark rolled into town with one offer and visited Sankey, then later that night watched Dahl in a basketball game (with many TV cameras present)

Joe fouled out in about 6 minutes being really aggressive.

 

[dgibbons]

If I may go back to the 80's and quote Ronald Reagan...there you go again. What were the lies?

Leach struggled after 2013. You said it. Prove it.

 

[dgibbons]

Implying Leach stopped recruiting in 2013 was an interesting take. And lumping it with turnover as well. The turnover didn’t start until after the 2014 season with Simmons. It really took a hit after the 2016 season.

Losing Manning and Mastro after the 2017 season, especially since they were recruiting California, really hurt.

 

[dgibbons]

But there is a point I wonder about...are you saying dahl would have stayed at Montana if Wulff would have been retained, or did he already make up his mind that he made a mistake and wanted to play for WSU, regardless of the coach.

Once more with feeling. Wulff's lack of cred is the reason that Dahl chose Montana over WSU?

Or maybe the recruiting technique of taking a dump at someone's house wasn't the best move.

 

[chipdouglas]

Leach struggled after 2013. You said it. Prove it.

Yeah nothing backs this up. Per 247, average 2012-13 class was #54. Through 2019 it was #51, with individual year "highs" of #42, #44 and #46.

If you want to talk about a dropoff, see 2018 beyond. From mid-40s to multiple years in the 60s.

 

[CougEd]

Implying Leach stopped recruiting in 2013 was an interesting take. And lumping it with turnover as well. The turnover didn’t start until after the 2014 season with Simmons. It really took a hit after the 2016 season.

I didn't imply Leach "stopped recruiting". I am SAYING his best classes were his first two, huge hit in 2014, and I am not sure there has been a class that had the dlineman the first two had. Yes,Herc was special but I don't see Barber or Destiny or Eukale on the line to continue to move things forward.

Why read stuff into something I never said.

 

[CougEd]

Once more with feeling. Wulff's lack of cred is the reason that Dahl chose Montana over WSU?

Or maybe the recruiting technique of taking a dump at someone's house wasn't the best move.

Oh I thought he committed to Montana and when WSU came in October he stayed committed to Montana. You didn't answer the question but I get it.

 

[CougEd]

Yeah nothing backs this up. Per 247, average 2012-13 class was #54. Through 2019 it was #51, with individual year "highs" of #42, #44 and #46.

If you want to talk about a dropoff, see 2018 beyond. From mid-40s to multiple years in the 60s.

Are we talking rankings or production?

 

[etowncoug]

Are we talking rankings or production?

Both once Leach's recruits are done.

 

[CougEd]

Leach struggled after 2013. You said it. Prove it.

My bad...when you brought up Wulff and talked about him I should have somehow understood what you were saying. My bad.

You are correct, recruiting maintained, the 3-6 record with a bad defense meant he couldn't coach?

What is it you would like me to prove? we are short in numbers and quality along the dline, why? We are short in the secondary, why?

Are you saying you want me to compare 12 and 13 against classes 14-17?

 

[CougEd]

Both once Leach's recruits are done.

You can talk about the players in 14 who never played, 15, 16 and 17. Too early to evaluate 18 and 19. Are you really saying 14-17 produced the same level of players and the quantity and quality? 14 should have been the better of the first three classes. They got I believe 3 starters and full time players out of that class. So are we in agreement 14 was near 12 and 13?

 

[etowncoug]

My bad...when you brought up Wulff and talked about him I should have somehow understood what you were saying. My bad.

You are correct, recruiting maintained, the 3-6 record with a bad defense meant he couldn't coach?

What is it you would like me to prove? we are short in numbers and quality along the dline, why? We are short in the secondary, why?

Are you saying you want me to compare 12 and 13 against classes 14-17?

You do realize the best record in school history is held by a team made up entirely (minus Pelluer) of players recruited from 2014-2018?

 

[CougEd]

Yeah nothing backs this up. Per 247, average 2012-13 class was #54. Through 2019 it was #51, with individual year "highs" of #42, #44 and #46.

If you want to talk about a dropoff, see 2018 beyond. From mid-40s to multiple years in the 60s.

We have a coach who says rankings don't mean squat. For classes ranked in the 54 position they sure were more productive than the ones in the 40's.

 

[CougEd]

You do realize the best record in school history is held by a team made up entirely (minus Pelluer) of players recruited from 2014-2018?

You do realize the best record in school history is held by a team made up entirely (minus Pelluer) of players recruited from 2014-2018?

No mention of the 3-6 record? That is to be factored in as well.

 

[etowncoug]

We have a coach who says rankings don't mean squat. For classes ranked in the 54 position they sure were more productive than the ones in the 40's.

2012 and 2013 only got a ton of early PT because they had Wulffs Big Sky bums in front of them.

 

[CougEd]

2012 and 2013 only got a ton of early PT because they had Wulffs Big Sky bums in front of them.

Not sure of your point. Is it Wulff sucked? Or are we talking about recruiting production taking a hot after the first two years for whatever reason? Maybe we are talking both.

 

[etowncoug]

No mention of the 3-6 record? That is to be factored in as well.

The best record for the 2012-2013 classes was 9-4. The best record for 2014-2018 was 11-2.

The worst record for 2012-2013 was 3-9 and the group lost two home games to FCS schools. Worst record for 2015-2019 was 6-7.

 

[dgibbons]

We have a coach who says rankings don't mean squat. For classes ranked in the 54 position they sure were more productive than the ones in the 40's.

And we have you who just spews forth nonsense.

 

[dgibbons]

My bad...when you brought up Wulff and talked about him I should have somehow understood what you were saying. My bad.

You are correct, recruiting maintained, the 3-6 record with a bad defense meant he couldn't coach?

What is it you would like me to prove? we are short in numbers and quality along the dline, why? We are short in the secondary, why?

Are you saying you want me to compare 12 and 13 against classes 14-17?

I'm saying you're full of $hit. You can't prove what you stated. Of course you won't admit it.

 

[CougEd]

I'm saying you're full of $hit. You can't prove what you stated. Of course you won't admit it.

Oh I have no problem admitting when I am wrong. So you will concede 2013 was better than 14, correct? Let's start small and work our way up.

 

[dgibbons]

Oh I have no problem admitting when I am wrong. So you will concede 2013 was better than 14, correct? Let's start small and work our way up.

I have nothing to concede, unless you can prove you're not full of $hit.

 

[chipdouglas]

We have a coach who says rankings don't mean squat. For classes ranked in the 54 position they sure were more productive than the ones in the 40's.

So you're saying the classes were rated better by independent, professional sources, but they don't pass the CougEd eye test? Game, set, match?

 

[CougEd]

So you're saying the classes were rated better by independent, professional sources, but they don't pass the CougEd eye test? Game, set, match?

I don’t know what to tell you . I am talking about production as we have the sample . Now if you are to argue 18 and 19 classes were rated higher I am not going to touch that one . I am talking about what we have seen from a production standpoint .

 

[CougEd]

I have nothing to concede, unless you can prove you're not full of $hit.[/QUOTE



so you are saying a class with three full time starters is a better class than 12 or 3, got it .[