offer sheets

[longtimecoug]

the commit list so far is a collection of kids without many offers from schools on the pac 12 level. weber state etc.. show up alot.
this could change but could also be a sign that we are losing the battle on recruits

 

[mikalalas]

the commit list so far is a collection of kids without many offers from schools on the pac 12 level. weber state etc.. show up alot.
this could change but could also be a sign that we are losing the battle on recruits

That's only a concern if it's 2 stars, 2.5 stars, NR's.

But that's not what Dickert has been getting. Oh sure there has been the occasional one of those, once in a while, but the Majority has NOT been those type of recruits.

Most of the recruits have been semi highly sought after JC transfers, Grad Transfers, Transfer Portal Transfers to plug holes in the LB corp, O Line, etc, players, recruits like Ahmad Devin Richardson, etc.

The few, some HS recruits, have typically been 3 star, 3.5 star, that even though they are semi highly ranked, have semi high star rankings, are either late bloomers, under the radar, etc, so that other programs are missing out on 3 stars, 3.5 stars.

The other thing that happens, is that a lot of programs, are getting their plan A & B options from transfer portal, leaving many semi highly ranked players with less offers, and less semi big time offers.

Dickert can build for the future around these type of players and the transfer, plug holes type of players.

Star rankings, and semi high star rankings are more important then the number of PAC 10/12, P5, etc, offers, especially in the NIL, Transfer Portal age, where programs are taking less HS players, because they don't want to develop them and have them transfer out.

WSU can and is capitalizing on that situation, and is scooping up those kids, players, recruits.

And that is why WSU is getting HS players, recruits with semi high, 3, 3.5 star rankings, that don't have a lot of P5, PAC 10/12 offers.

There are a number of good HS recruits in this class, like 3.5 star O lineman, 3.5 Star WR, 3.5 star RB, 3.5 star CB, 3.5 star LB.

The only really questionable recruit, that I have seen is that 2 star, 2.5 star, NR, etc, recruit out of COURDALENE and 1 other 2 star, 2.5 star, NR, etc. Those 2 recruits, should have been preferred Walk Ons instead of 2 star, 2.5 star, NR scholly recruits.

But those type of recruits are in the minority, as most have been a lot better then that.

But even if there were to be more lower recruits like that. Dickert is semi showing that he is semi doing a decent, ok job, EVALUATING AND DEVELOPING those lower, lesser recruits.

So because of that I'm ok with a occasional reach.

Your overreacting, and your wrong.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

the commit list so far is a collection of kids without many offers from schools on the pac 12 level. weber state etc.. show up alot.
this could change but could also be a sign that we are losing the battle on recruits

Our commits and their offers from other Power 5 programs (Group of 5 in parentheses):

Doss - Arizona, ASU
Lino - BC, Cal
Chuba - none (offers from Arkansas State, Bowling Green & East Carolina)
Joyner - Arizona, BC, Colorado
Weaver - Arizona, Georgia Tech, Wisconsin, Mississippi State, Vandy
DeGraw - none (offer from Boise State)
Cusano - none (offers from Air Force, Army, SDSU and Utah State)
Cobbs - none (offers from Memphis and Middle Tennessee)
Osmus - none (offer from Colorado State)
Moors - none (offer from Hawaii)
Cowgill -none (offers from Air Force & Wyoming)

While we have a number of guys without Power 5 offers, it's not like they are a bunch of guys with only FCS offers like Weber State. Every player has at least one FBS offer outside of WSU. I'd like a more robust offer list of course.

 

[COUGinNCW]

Semi typical. Maybe a few less other P5 offers than normal but not too far off. Unfortunately in the past you could develop the undervalued kids and win like that, now they’ll transfer once they show promise.

 

[mikalalas]

Our commits and their offers from other Power 5 programs (Group of 5 in parentheses):

Doss - Arizona, ASU
Lino - BC, Cal
Chuba - none (offers from Arkansas State, Bowling Green & East Carolina)
Joyner - Arizona, BC, Colorado
Weaver - Arizona, Georgia Tech, Wisconsin, Mississippi State, Vandy
DeGraw - none (offer from Boise State)
Cusano - none (offers from Air Force, Army, SDSU and Utah State)
Cobbs - none (offers from Memphis and Middle Tennessee)
Osmus - none (offer from Colorado State)
Moors - none (offer from Hawaii)
Cowgill -none (offers from Air Force & Wyoming)

While we have a number of guys without Power 5 offers, it's not like they are a bunch of guys with only FCS offers like Weber State. Every player has at least one FBS offer outside of WSU. I'd like a more robust offer list of course.

And how many of those are low end 2 stars, high end 2 stars(2.5 stars), low end 3 stars(2.5 stars), 3 stars, high end 3 stars(3.5 stars, lowest ended 4 stars(3.5 stars)?

Most of those are mid to semi high end 3 stars(3.5 stars), so 3 stars, and 3.5 stars.

Cobbs is a 3.5 star SPEED DEMON WR. He should have lots of P5, PAC 10/12 offers, and the reason why he doesn't is because he was a late bloomer, a little bit under the radar, and P5/PAC colleges don't want to only have Cobbs for 1,2 years, and then have him transfer out.

Doss, Lino, Joyner, Weaver, Cobbs, are ABSOLUTE STUDS.

And at least 5,6,7 out of the 11 players are or should be, or seem to be STUDS, ON PAPER, STAR RANKINGS WISE, ETC, WITH OR WITHOUT BIG TIME OFFERS, P5 OFFERS, PAC OFFERS.

Again there is overreaction, and if people think this class sucks, should suck, instead of this class should being good, they are probably, and should be wrong.

 

[mikalalas]

Semi typical. Maybe a few less other P5 offers than normal but not too far off. Unfortunately in the past you could develop the undervalued kids and win like that, now they’ll transfer once they show promise.

True, but it's not like Dickert, WSU is only getting these HS recruits.

WSU, Dickert is primarily getting TRANSFERS(JC transfers, Grad Transfers, Transfer Portal, etc, for to PLUG HOLES), and then getting a couple, few, some HS recruits to fill around the transfers.

WSU, Dickert is building for 2,3 year cycles, and going to have to reload, rebuild, PLUG HOLES, every about 1,2,3 years.

The idea of getting a lot of HS recruits, and then developing them, and then having them be a starter, or key bench player during, in years 4,5, IS DEAD.

Dickert has PLUGGED THE HOLES, from all the departures from TRANSFERS, and he is filling around that with a few, some, HS recruits, and if those HS recruits either don't pan out, or transfer out, leave, etc, he Dickert, will replace them with more TRANSFERS(JC Transfers, Grad Transfers, Transfer Portal Transfers, etc).

 

[BiggsCoug]

the commit list so far is a collection of kids without many offers from schools on the pac 12 level. weber state etc.. show up alot.
this could change but could also be a sign that we are losing the battle on recruits

Some of the kids aren’t bad prospects at all. And who knows how the market has changed with NIL. The higher rated kids may be waiting out their best $$$ offers until later.

Dickert is a nobody. He has no brand name. He hasn’t won shit. He has jack squat for West Coast coaching and recruiting experience. His staff is still a new staff building relationships AND he had coaches leave so they took whatever relationships they had with them.

We are gonna find out real quick if he can make good on his claims of WSU being a development school. If the kids won’t stay more than 2 years and your classes fall apart one by one, time to be all portal all the time.

I will give him credit for finding some kids that are under evaluated that showed that they can play ball.

Otherwise, he was a shitty hire. He walks into schools and Power 5 recruits have no idea who he is. Kiss of death for a Power 5 coach.

Neon Deon and Dick walk into a school. The recruit can only speak to 1 of them. Who does he choose?

You can look at the list of offers and see who he beats….

 

[Coug90]

Semi typical. Maybe a few less other P5 offers than normal but not too far off. Unfortunately in the past you could develop the undervalued kids and win like that, now they’ll transfer once they show promise.

This is the problem. In the past you were fine bringing in overlooked guys, letting them develop, then having them be solid players their Jr and Sr years. They just needed to be guys who wanted to finish school and compete. Leach was a master at this.

Now, to your point as soon as they start making plays they are looking to upgrade or make a buck.

That run we went on with Bennett in hoops NEVER would have happened with todays rules.

 

[kougkurt]

This is the problem. In the past you were fine bringing in overlooked guys, letting them develop, then having them be solid players their Jr and Sr years. They just needed to be guys who wanted to finish school and compete. Leach was a master at this.

Now, to your point as soon as they start making plays they are looking to upgrade or make a buck.

That run we went on with Bennett in hoops NEVER would have happened with todays rules.

It’s easier to stay competitive replacing your starting PG every year vs QB

I feel it is still possible in basketball based on sheer numbers alone.

 

[mikalalas]

This is the problem. In the past you were fine bringing in overlooked guys, letting them develop, then having them be solid players their Jr and Sr years. They just needed to be guys who wanted to finish school and compete. Leach was a master at this.

Now, to your point as soon as they start making plays they are looking to upgrade or make a buck.

That run we went on with Bennett in hoops NEVER would have happened with todays rules.

The Solution, and Dickert is doing it the solution is:

1. Plug holes, and build for 1,2,3 years thru, via transfers(JC, Grad Transfers, Transfer Portal)

2. Get 3 star, 3.5 star, 4 star HS recruits, that other P5/PAC teams aren't offering because late bloomers, under radar, an or teams being afraid that that player would transfer early, etc.

3. Occasionally once in while, beat out a semi quasi blue blood for a 4 star recruit, HS an or Transfer.

4. Get the occasional WA, Idaho, Montana 3 star recruit, that really wants to play at WSU, because really likes, loves WSU, so probably won't transfer out.

5. When the HS recruits transfer out, replace them, plug holes with Transfers(JC, Grad, Transfer Portal)

This is a minor league farm system model, where can still be successful year in an out, it's just that once in a while, some years, WSU is only going to win 4,5,6 wins in a rebuild year, and other years, WSU will win 7,8,9,10 wins, with 7,8,7.5 wins on average being the average norm, and the 9,10 win seasons, being just as rare, or more rare then 4,5,6 win seasons.

As long as WSU wins 7,8 some to semi most years, WSU will, would be able to make this model work.

Both Dickert, and Kyle Smith both seem to be making this type of model to work.

 

[mikalalas]

This is the problem. In the past you were fine bringing in overlooked guys, letting them develop, then having them be solid players their Jr and Sr years. They just needed to be guys who wanted to finish school and compete. Leach was a master at this.

Now, to your point as soon as they start making plays they are looking to upgrade or make a buck.

That run we went on with Bennett in hoops NEVER would have happened with todays rules.

Yes and no to what you said about Bennet, Hoops, etc.

The reason why Kyle Smith is a better recruiter, is that he gets in early on recruits, recruits internationally, works his ass off, offers everyone, is a great Salesman, AND RUNS A MORE ENTERTAINING, BETTER(Not results wise, so far, but better as far as better suited to attract recruits), TYPE OF BASKETBALL.

And Dick Bennet's recruit rankings were even worse then Tony Bennet's, because of his 17 point games, pass it 1000 times, use every last second of shot clock, don't rebound, and get back on defense type of bball so that you can recruit 1 star, 2 star, 3 star, 2.5 star, NR , semi Whitworth college players, that you can develop into players that can run, flourish win in, with such a system.

In today's college bball world Kyle Smith can has both a system, recruiting, roster management, etc, that is better suited geared, for NIL, Transfer Portal then both of the Bennet coaches.

So because of that, your right that Bennet's run would probably never happen in NIL + Transfer Portal.

But just because that's true of Bennet Ball at WSU, that does NOT mean that Kyle Smith can't have a run where he goes 23-7 in regular season, 13-7, 14-6, 15-5 in conference, 2,3 in conference, win 3 in PAC tourny, get a 4,5,6,7 seed in NCAA tourny, 2nd round, Sweet 16, Elite 8, 24,25,26,27,28 total wins after the end of tournaments, season, in back to back, 2 seasons.

And don't be surprised if Smith does that in the future at WSU, as Smith is a HELL of a recruiter, as is a HELL of a Roster Manager, and does a HELL of a awesome job, replacing players, plugging holes, handling NIL + Transfer Portal well, from year to year.

 

[Coug90]

The Solution, and Dickert is doing it the solution is:

1. Plug holes, and build for 1,2,3 years thru, via transfers(JC, Grad Transfers, Transfer Portal)

2. Get 3 star, 3.5 star, 4 star HS recruits, that other P5/PAC teams aren't offering because late bloomers, under radar, an or teams being afraid that that player would transfer early, etc.

3. Occasionally once in while, beat out a semi quasi blue blood for a 4 star recruit, HS an or Transfer.

4. Get the occasional WA, Idaho, Montana 3 star recruit, that really wants to play at WSU, because really likes, loves WSU, so probably won't transfer out.

5. When the HS recruits transfer out, replace them, plug holes with Transfers(JC, Grad, Transfer Portal)

This is a minor league farm system model, where can still be successful year in an out, it's just that once in a while, some years, WSU is only going to win 4,5,6 wins in a rebuild year, and other years, WSU will win 7,8,9,10 wins, with 7,8,7.5 wins on average being the average norm, and the 9,10 win seasons, being just as rare, or more rare then 4,5,6 win seasons.

As long as WSU wins 7,8 some to semi most years, WSU will, would be able to make this model work.

Both Dickert, and Kyle Smith both seem to be making this type of model to work.

I think Dickert and Smith are both doing the best they can and are exceptional hires for our programs. I just think the blueprint of success for small market programs like ours has been neutered with NIL+TP. To the OPs point, a lot of these kids sniff success and want to market themselves and make $ if you look back historically at WSUs championship caliber teams they were all pretty much loaded with JRs and SRs who’d been in the program. It’s really hard to keep a majority of those guys at WSU now that contribute to those types of teams.

 

[Coug90]

Yes and no to what you said about Bennet, Hoops, etc.

The reason why Kyle Smith is a better recruiter, is that he gets in early on recruits, recruits internationally, works his ass off, offers everyone, is a great Salesman, AND RUNS A MORE ENTERTAINING, BETTER(Not results wise, so far, but better as far as better suited to attract recruits), TYPE OF BASKETBALL.

And Dick Bennet's recruit rankings were even worse then Tony Bennet's, because of his 17 point games, pass it 1000 times, use every last second of shot clock, don't rebound, and get back on defense type of bball so that you can recruit 1 star, 2 star, 3 star, 2.5 star, NR , semi Whitworth college players, that you can develop into players that can run, flourish win in, with such a system.

In today's college bball world Kyle Smith can has both a system, recruiting, roster management, etc, that is better suited geared, for NIL, Transfer Portal then both of the Bennet coaches.

So because of that, your right that Bennet's run would probably never happen in NIL + Transfer Portal.

But just because that's true of Bennet Ball at WSU, that does NOT mean that Kyle Smith can't have a run where he goes 23-7 in regular season, 13-7, 14-6, 15-5 in conference, 2,3 in conference, win 3 in PAC tourny, get a 4,5,6,7 seed in NCAA tourny, 2nd round, Sweet 16, Elite 8, 24,25,26,27,28 total wins after the end of tournaments, season, in back to back, 2 seasons.

And don't be surprised if Smith does that in the future at WSU, as Smith is a HELL of a recruiter, as is a HELL of a Roster Manager, and does a HELL of a awesome job, replacing players, plugging holes, handling NIL + Transfer Portal well, from year to year.

I agree with everything you say about smith. He’s managing the environment and plugging holes the best he can. Still doesn’t change the fact that the portal+NIL is making it extremely difficult to build the momentum to where you have those seasons like we had with Weaver, Lowe, etc…where they are together for a few years and all gel and have a special run. He may have plugged holes, but we are not better with Bamba and Rodman leaving. This is the equivalent of losing Casto+Weaver back in the Bennett days. That sweet 16 doesn’t happen, and I think it’s going to be a monumental task to get WSU to an NCAA in this environment unfortunately. Before the 23-7 you have a 16-14 then an 19-11 and everyone came back. That’s what leads to the 23-7 in a program like ours. Getting everyone back is impossible nowadays. So as much as I like smith, I don’t share your optimism. I think our ceiling is likely top 1/3 of conference w NIT best case. I hope I’m wrong.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

I agree with everything you say about smith. He’s managing the environment and plugging holes the best he can. Still doesn’t change the fact that the portal+NIL is making it extremely difficult to build the momentum to where you have those seasons like we had with Weaver, Lowe, etc…where they are together for a few years and all gel and have a special run. He may have plugged holes, but we are not better with Bamba and Rodman leaving. This is the equivalent of losing Casto+Weaver back in the Bennett days. That sweet 16 doesn’t happen, and I think it’s going to be a monumental task to get WSU to an NCAA in this environment unfortunately. Before the 23-7 you have a 16-14 then an 19-11 and everyone came back. That’s what leads to the 23-7 in a program like ours. Getting everyone back is impossible nowadays. So as much as I like smith, I don’t share your optimism. I think our ceiling is likely top 1/3 of conference w NIT best case. I hope I’m wrong.

Ahh, the good old days. I was a student during the Raveling years, met him once, what a great guy. Was there when we beat UCLA and Pollard(?) shattered the backboard. Had season tickets during the Bennett years, met Dick once after Tony took over. Such a great guy. That's what being a Coug is all about. Met Walden too, up at Harrison on CDA lake. Some don't like him, but a nice gregarious guy. Oh and met Sherrie Murrell (womens BB) when she was there. What a cutie, didn't know then that she was a lesbian. Ran across Wulff at a BB game, Geezus his wife was decked out like she was headed to the prom.

So many stories to tell or re-tell.

I've got stories about Sam Smith and Elson Floyd but will save those for another thread.

 

[chugspig]

We say this every year. And every year those guys get offers from other schools down the stretch. You know how bad Arizona, ASU, Cal, UCLA etc has been at converting talent to results for most of the last decade. They shoot high and then offer the lower level 3 stars when they strike out. Immediately upon their commit to a bigger school or the offer, they get a ranking bump and suddenly they are worthy of our recruit. Not to mention transfers change it all. There’s about 30 things more important than their current offer sheet.

 

[roses04]

They get 20-25 guys every year, you will miss on some, hit on others, the key is to hit on 10-15 each year. I guess we will start finding out how good evaluations and recruiting are with this staff this year, with the start of the season. How many Freshmen from last year's class contribute this year? If they truly earn time that's a plus, if they are playing due to lack of depth, not so much. I do believe this is a pivotal season for WSU football, most people expect 6-7 wins, anything less and things start to go south. However, if they get to 8 wins or more, it sets a positive tone, not only for the program, but for fans and $. Offense should be better, hopefully we see improved line play, which results in a better QB and running back performance. Defense wasn't great last year, and losing 3 solid LBs won't help. Does the new DC make a difference?

 

[cr8zyncalif]

What I don't fully grasp yet is the impact of portal + NIL on the rest of the recruiting strategy. We tend to focus on the bad aspect for WSU...that kids who do really well will run off the next year to become mercenaries somewhere. What we sometimes miss is that a lot of kids who did not get PT at top programs will get cut off from their NIL money and get run off to make room on the roster...and as a result be looking elsewhere, especially if they want to see the field. Will the losses and gains add up to rough equivalency for WSU? And how does that impact HS...if our direct competition is mostly focused on buying mercenaries, that ought to mean that more/better HS kids are available...at least I'd think it would work out that way. The portal+NIL shift has been sudden and abrupt. There are still probably a lot of HS kids & parents who think Johnny will get a scholie from a better school, but it does not materialize due to the "better school" having signed a bunch of portal kids but did not manage to run off an equivalent number of people from the roster. I'm not sure this has fully evolved. My personal bet is that when the music stops in the HS musical chairs game this year, there will still be some pretty good kids standing around because they waited too long to commit somewhere, and as a result they will be at a "lower" program or even FCS. It probably also enables schools to be a bit more picky about grades.

 

[BiggsCoug]

They get 20-25 guys every year, you will miss on some, hit on others, the key is to hit on 10-15 each year. I guess we will start finding out how good evaluations and recruiting are with this staff this year, with the start of the season. How many Freshmen from last year's class contribute this year? If they truly earn time that's a plus, if they are playing due to lack of depth, not so much. I do believe this is a pivotal season for WSU football, most people expect 6-7 wins, anything less and things start to go south. However, if they get to 8 wins or more, it sets a positive tone, not only for the program, but for fans and $. Offense should be better, hopefully we see improved line play, which results in a better QB and running back performance. Defense wasn't great last year, and losing 3 solid LBs won't help. Does the new DC make a difference?

How does the offense get better?
The OL needs to make serious strides forward. Can they?
The WR all left. New WRs came in. Are they difference makers?
The TEs were a no call.
The RBs were prob the best position group on offense.
The qb’s 30+ career starts going into his junior season, an unheard of amount of playing time for a qb this early in his career, need to start to pay dividends.
The new OC has to be more creative, better using his RB play maker, has to understand how to get his scheme blocked up with the OL he has… he just has his work cut out for him.

The defense got smoked against the uw and while missing players against Fresno State, it showed who they had coming back.
Can the 6th year all conference ends get a pass rush this year?
Who is the DT?
Who are the linebackers?
Will the defensive backs know the scheme this year? Or will they get caught out of position again?
The new DC has to replace a big timer at LB and the middle of his DL.

There are a lot of struggling teams in the Pac 10. Stanford, Arizona, Arizona State, Cal, Colorado… all have new coaches are fairly new coaches. Some had enormous turnover on their rosters.

If WSU can run the table against those 5 teams or however many of them are on the sked, they have a shot at a bowl season. If they can’t beat these teams, well, not good.

 

[BiggsCoug]

What I don't fully grasp yet is the impact of portal + NIL on the rest of the recruiting strategy. We tend to focus on the bad aspect for WSU...that kids who do really well will run off the next year to become mercenaries somewhere. What we sometimes miss is that a lot of kids who did not get PT at top programs will get cut off from their NIL money and get run off to make room on the roster...and as a result be looking elsewhere, especially if they want to see the field. Will the losses and gains add up to rough equivalency for WSU? And how does that impact HS...if our direct competition is mostly focused on buying mercenaries, that ought to mean that more/better HS kids are available...at least I'd think it would work out that way. The portal+NIL shift has been sudden and abrupt. There are still probably a lot of HS kids & parents who think Johnny will get a scholie from a better school, but it does not materialize due to the "better school" having signed a bunch of portal kids but did not manage to run off an equivalent number of people from the roster. I'm not sure this has fully evolved. My personal bet is that when the music stops in the HS musical chairs game this year, there will still be some pretty good kids standing around because they waited too long to commit somewhere, and as a result they will be at a "lower" program or even FCS. It probably also enables schools to be a bit more picky about grades.

How many more covid kids with a 6th year are still out there?

Someone is gonna get left out. HS or jucos are my guess.

Taking a portal kid from another P5 program is prob a safer bet. Those kids, assuming they have done the work and weren’t in the doghouse, know what “it” looks like. Or they should at least walk in having an idea of what they are transitioning into.

The portal and NIL has created a way for the best players to find their way onto the best teams. There will also be kids moving off those rosters to make room. Also, you will see kids moving up from lower divisions. Okie State took the AA WR from George Fox this year.

The days of scouting HS and jucos solely are prob over. It wouldn’t be the worst idea for P5 schools to have a staff that evaluated lower division school’s talent too. Similar to the NFL scouting other teams rosters and keeping track of their players.

It is a new era for sure.

 

[roses04]

How does the offense get better?
The OL needs to make serious strides forward. Can they?
The WR all left. New WRs came in. Are they difference makers?
The TEs were a no call.
The RBs were prob the best position group on offense.
The qb’s 30+ career starts going into his junior season, an unheard of amount of playing time for a qb this early in his career, need to start to pay dividends.
The new OC has to be more creative, better using his RB play maker, has to understand how to get his scheme blocked up with the OL he has… he just has his work cut out for him.

The defense got smoked against the uw and while missing players against Fresno State, it showed who they had coming back.
Can the 6th year all conference ends get a pass rush this year?
Who is the DT?
Who are the linebackers?
Will the defensive backs know the scheme this year? Or will they get caught out of position again?
The new DC has to replace a big timer at LB and the middle of his DL.

There are a lot of struggling teams in the Pac 10. Stanford, Arizona, Arizona State, Cal, Colorado… all have new coaches are fairly new coaches. Some had enormous turnover on their rosters.

If WSU can run the table against those 5 teams or however many of them are on the sked, they have a shot at a bowl season. If they can’t beat these teams, well, not good.

Biggs, I get where you are coming from, I know you don't like Dickert, but, in spite of covid, finances and the fact that Dickert filled the gap fairly well while the whole Rolo mess was going on, WSU didn't have a lot of options. How are they going to get better this year? Damn good question, and I am not saying they will, there were a lot of holes to fill, the defense and offense were terrible at times, and more holes were created with some linebackers and an O lineman, opting for the portal, and coaching turnover. And I still have doubts, to put it mildly about our Oline and Oline coach. What I am trying to say is if the Cougs get to 6 or 7 wins, because of the other struggling teams you mentioned, they meet expectations, which isn't saying much. So my question to you is, how many wins will it take next year for you to give Dickert just a little credit? My bar is 8, during the regular season, and the better win the bowl game this time.

 

[LeachPack]

Why on earth are you two discussing football on this board?!

 

[BiggsCoug]

Biggs, I get where you are coming from, I know you don't like Dickert, but, in spite of covid, finances and the fact that Dickert filled the gap fairly well while the whole Rolo mess was going on, WSU didn't have a lot of options. How are they going to get better this year? Damn good question, and I am not saying they will, there were a lot of holes to fill, the defense and offense were terrible at times, and more holes were created with some linebackers and an O lineman, opting for the portal, and coaching turnover. And I still have doubts, to put it mildly about our Oline and Oline coach. What I am trying to say is if the Cougs get to 6 or 7 wins, because of the other struggling teams you mentioned, they meet expectations, which isn't saying much. So my question to you is, how many wins will it take next year for you to give Dickert just a little credit? My bar is 8.

We dont know if WSU had other options or not. WSU is one of the top 100 football jobs in the nation and pays millions of dollars for a head coach. The idea that they didnt have better options just doesnt hold a lot of water for me. Now, could he have been a guy with some attributes they liked? Sure. But remember, not much for P5 experience, never been a head coach before, still a young coach, and Im to believe there werent better candidates? Sorry man. I dont.

My standard isnt wins or losses.
1) Well coached and prepared.
2) Well called on game day.
3) In shape and strong kids.
4) Ultimate effort.
5) All day tough.

Show me those things and I can deal with bad beats (Bobby Wade) or being out talented or having some injuries or having young players.

Show me kids that dont know where to line up, blow assignments, lazy, weak, quit and coaches that have zero answers to what the other side is doing and I have 0 tolerance for that. Especially for coaches creating generational wealth.

 

[CougSinceBirth]

We dont know if WSU had other options or not. WSU is one of the top 100 football jobs in the nation and pays millions of dollars for a head coach. The idea that they didnt have better options just doesnt hold a lot of water for me. Now, could he have been a guy with some attributes they liked? Sure. But remember, not much for P5 experience, never been a head coach before, still a young coach, and Im to believe there werent better candidates? Sorry man. I dont.

My standard isnt wins or losses.
1) Well coached and prepared.
2) Well called on game day.
3) In shape and strong kids.
4) Ultimate effort.
5) All day tough.

Show me those things and I can deal with bad beats (Bobby Wade) or being out talented or having some injuries or having young players.

Show me kids that dont know where to line up, blow assignments, lazy, weak, quit and coaches that have zero answers to what the other side is doing and I have 0 tolerance for that. Especially for coaches creating generational wealth.

That freaking Bobby Wade catch would've never happened in 2023 (well...maybe with P12 officials, but yeah). Still haunts us to this day.

 

[BiggsCoug]

That freaking Bobby Wade catch would've never happened in 2023 (well...maybe with P12 officials, but yeah). Still haunts us to this day.

Lemme tell you sumtin…

The fix is in, and has been in, on WSU games for a longggg time.

Vegas makes $ off WSU games.

 

[95coug]

How does the offense get better?
The OL needs to make serious strides forward. Can they?
The WR all left. New WRs came in. Are they difference makers?
The TEs were a no call.
The RBs were prob the best position group on offense.
The qb’s 30+ career starts going into his junior season, an unheard of amount of playing time for a qb this early in his career, need to start to pay dividends.
The new OC has to be more creative, better using his RB play maker, has to understand how to get his scheme blocked up with the OL he has… he just has his work cut out for him.

The defense got smoked against the uw and while missing players against Fresno State, it showed who they had coming back.
Can the 6th year all conference ends get a pass rush this year?
Who is the DT?
Who are the linebackers?
Will the defensive backs know the scheme this year? Or will they get caught out of position again?
The new DC has to replace a big timer at LB and the middle of his DL.

There are a lot of struggling teams in the Pac 10. Stanford, Arizona, Arizona State, Cal, Colorado… all have new coaches are fairly new coaches. Some had enormous turnover on their rosters.

If WSU can run the table against those 5 teams or however many of them are on the sked, they have a shot at a bowl season. If they can’t beat these teams, well, not good.

Well, yeah. But other than that, things look pretty good.

I do like some of the schemes the new OC has run. Seems tailor-made for a weak OL…as long as the QB can make the quick read and get the ball out. That’s not something Ward was good at last year. He looked better in spring, but it’s easy to look good when you know you’re not getting hit…and when the guys most likely to hit you are doing sideline interviews.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Well, yeah. But other than that, things look pretty good.

I do like some of the schemes the new OC has run. Seems tailor-made for a weak OL…as long as the QB can make the quick read and get the ball out. That’s not something Ward was good at last year. He looked better in spring, but it’s easy to look good when you know you’re not getting hit…and when the guys most likely to hit you are doing sideline interviews.

You cant catch the snap and throw ASAP and expect anything past 15 yards to develop vertically or anything over the middle. Too easy for the defense.

That isn’t coaching. If these guys were making $48,000 per year, fine. But they are making 10 times that. Better get creative and find a way to win the game, not just show up and run some plays.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

You cant catch the snap and throw ASAP and expect anything past 15 yards to develop vertically or anything over the middle. Too easy for the defense.

That isn’t coaching. If these guys were making $48,000 per year, fine. But they are making 10 times that. Better get creative and find a way to win the game, not just show up and run some plays.

It's almost like you don't know that we hired a new offensive coordinator in the off-season.

 

[mikalalas]

It's almost like you don't know that we hired a(THE)(BEST) new offensive coordinator in the (NATION), (OF THE BEST OFFENSE IN NATION, LAST SEASON)(IN THE) off-season.

(FIXED), FIXED.

 

[BiggsCoug]

It's almost like you don't know that we hired a new offensive coordinator in the off-season.

You dont know anything at all.

 

[BiggsCoug]

(FIXED), FIXED.

You’re a moron. There is no bottom to your ignorance.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

You dont know anything at all.

You're the dumba$$ whining about offensive playcalling from last year when we have a new coordinator who is well known for his explosive offensive playcalling. Your senility is showing.

I know, I know....I'm moving off your damned lawn.

 

[BiggsCoug]

You're the dumba$$ whining about offensive playcalling from last year when we have a new coordinator who is well known for his explosive offensive playcalling. Your senility is showing.

I know, I know....I'm moving off your damned lawn.

You are so f’ing stupid. New coach, same players. Hell even some guys that transferred in with zero stats under their belt. The new coach better be a magician.

We will see what he can do. Explosive new play caller! Where are the explosive players? Are they gonna let Jenkins off the bench?

Sit down and shut up.

 

[Coug90]

Be prepared for some shootouts. Offense will be much better…defense will take a step back with the LBs who departed. I would anticipate a very aggressive defense…even more so than we are used to- feast or famine. And we’ll need to be towards the top of the conference in turnovers again to have a shot at 8+ wins.

 

[Coug90]

You are so f’ing stupid. New coach, same players. Hell even some guys that transferred in with zero stats under their belt. The new coach better be a magician.

We will see what he can do. Explosive new play caller! Where are the explosive players? Are they gonna let Jenkins off the bench?

Sit down and shut up.

So…considering you didn’t like Morris (for good reason) and you thought JJ was underutilized as the best player on the offense (I agree) how come you aren’t more optimistic about how Arbuckle might use him and change the dynamic of the offense? Cam was inconsistent last year but there was a couple of really poorly called games. OSU looked like we didn’t have a gameplan at all. All else equal, I think arbuckle has the potential to be a huge upgrade from Morris. And IMO Cam is going to make a big leap from what I have seen.

 

[CougPatrol]

I've been following the Cougs closely since the late 70's and have been season ticket holder for what? 35+ years now?

Throughout that timeline, with some very isolated exceptions, WSU has always recruited at a high Mountain West Conference level with the exception of the QB position.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

You are so f’ing stupid. New coach, same players. Hell even some guys that transferred in with zero stats under their belt. The new coach better be a magician.

We will see what he can do. Explosive new play caller! Where are the explosive players? Are they gonna let Jenkins off the bench?

Sit down and shut up.

What's really hilarious about your hard-on for Dickert is how petty and subjective it is. Someone says, "How many wins do you need to see to accept that Dickert might be a good coach?" You ignore the wins question and say that they don't matter and you start up with empty fuggin' platitudes and catch phrases because that way you can keep on being a dick about the whole thing.

Contrary to what your senile, never coached anything important a$$ thinks.....wins are the only thing that matter in the long run when it comes to coaching. You can have the strongest, hardworking kids with the best goddamned character on the planet and if you don't win games....your ass is going to get fired.

And despite all of your whining, Dickert's teams are 10-0 against teams with 8 or fewer wins. Undisciplined, weak, poorly coached teams lose to bad teams. We know, because we all saw Leach's teams go 3-9 and 4-8 in 2012 and 2014 with some losses to bad teams. For all of your sh!t talking about Dickert, Leach managed to lose to seven teams with losing records in his tenure at WSU, including a what turned out to be a humiliating loss to eventual 5-7 USC in our 2018 season that featured 11 wins overall. Leach was able to pull off some true upsets and big wins, which Dickert hasn't been able to do, but when it comes to your platitudes, Leach failed to meet them more often than Dickert has. And FWIW, Leach is remembered fondly for the wins and upsets he had....not whether his teams came out and played well every game.

So when it comes to sitting down and shutting up.....you may want to heed your own advice there, big boy.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

What's really hilarious about your hard-on for Dickert is how petty and subjective it is. Someone says, "How many wins do you need to see to accept that Dickert might be a good coach?" You ignore the wins question and say that they don't matter and you start up with empty fuggin' platitudes and catch phrases because that way you can keep on being a dick about the whole thing.

Contrary to what your senile, never coached anything important a$$ thinks.....wins are the only thing that matter in the long run when it comes to coaching. You can have the strongest, hardworking kids with the best goddamned character on the planet and if you don't win games....your ass is going to get fired.

And despite all of your whining, Dickert's teams are 10-0 against teams with 8 or fewer wins. Undisciplined, weak, poorly coached teams lose to bad teams. We know, because we all saw Leach's teams go 3-9 and 4-8 in 2012 and 2014 with some losses to bad teams. For all of your sh!t talking about Dickert, Leach managed to lose to seven teams with losing records in his tenure at WSU, including a what turned out to be a humiliating loss to eventual 5-7 USC in our 2018 season that featured 11 wins overall. Leach was able to pull off some true upsets and big wins, which Dickert hasn't been able to do, but when it comes to your platitudes, Leach failed to meet them more often than Dickert has. And FWIW, Leach is remembered fondly for the wins and upsets he had....not whether his teams came out and played well every game.

So when it comes to sitting down and shutting up.....you may want to heed your own advice there, big boy.

Well said buddy.....

 

[triscuit one]

Well said buddy.....

 

[Loyal Coug1]

What's really hilarious about your hard-on for Dickert is how petty and subjective it is. Someone says, "How many wins do you need to see to accept that Dickert might be a good coach?" You ignore the wins question and say that they don't matter and you start up with empty fuggin' platitudes and catch phrases because that way you can keep on being a dick about the whole thing.

Contrary to what your senile, never coached anything important a$$ thinks.....wins are the only thing that matter in the long run when it comes to coaching. You can have the strongest, hardworking kids with the best goddamned character on the planet and if you don't win games....your ass is going to get fired.

And despite all of your whining, Dickert's teams are 10-0 against teams with 8 or fewer wins. Undisciplined, weak, poorly coached teams lose to bad teams. We know, because we all saw Leach's teams go 3-9 and 4-8 in 2012 and 2014 with some losses to bad teams. For all of your sh!t talking about Dickert, Leach managed to lose to seven teams with losing records in his tenure at WSU, including a what turned out to be a humiliating loss to eventual 5-7 USC in our 2018 season that featured 11 wins overall. Leach was able to pull off some true upsets and big wins, which Dickert hasn't been able to do, but when it comes to your platitudes, Leach failed to meet them more often than Dickert has. And FWIW, Leach is remembered fondly for the wins and upsets he had....not whether his teams came out and played well every game.

So when it comes to sitting down and shutting up.....you may want to heed your own advice there, big boy.

Yeah and after a few beers I'll say some more. Biggs, you talk a lot of shit, constantly. and expound on your supposedly vast coaching experience. Care to share that with the board? Where ? And your illustrious career as a Football player? We have met, and as I recall you were a big fat - I'll stop at that. So how about you just STFU. Talk about Coug Football, give Dickert a chance to be successful at WSU.

Oh and if you want to come to Pullman to take me on I'll just bring my 9mm.

 

[Coug90]

And despite all of your whining, Dickert's teams are 10-0 against teams with 8 or fewer wins. Undisciplined, weak, poorly coached teams lose to bad teams.

Yeah I pointed this out during one of the Dickfore rants a while back about beating teams you should beat. Crickets.

The better thing about that record is most of those games were double digit wins - they take care of business convincingly. Oh yeah, then they go beat Wisconsin on the road, and compete their asses off against the Oregons, USCs, and Utahs of the conference too.

Verdict still out? Fine. There’s simply zero argument for Dickert being a bust as a coach at this point.

Recruiting is what it is. Maybe he can build the program to a point where every guy coming in has double digit P5 offers, but that has literally happened zero times in the history of the program, so not sure how that’s expected for a coach who’s been here a year and a half.

Looking forward to this season. Think it will tell us a lot about where the program is headed under CJD.