Official UW support thread

[Coug1990]

Originally posted by Observer11:

Originally posted by Coug1990:

Originally posted by Observer11:

Originally posted by Coug1990:

Originally posted by spongebob11:
You do realize they mopped us our home field, right?

If they suck, what does that say about us?

Anyhow, would have loved to have seem a spin move from the big fella for the icing on the cake

Absolutely nothing. Transitive property does not work in sports.

I don't think you quite understand the transitive property.

Then explain it to me.

The transitive property is comparing three unrelated entities or events.

A > B > C, therefore A > C. Or Oklahoma State > UW > WSU. Your position is the transitive property isn't applicable in athletic events that have not transpired. Debaable but given there are other variables factoring in, that's possible.

It's already established that UW 2014 > WSU 2014. That is known. There is no debating that fact. It happened. Therefore if one is to establish UW 2014 = Suck, then by definition WSU 2014 has to at least be slightly Suckier than Suck.

Likely the use of the associative property would more accurately define Coug 2014 suckiness relative to UW 2014 suck if one were to write out the algebraic equation.




This post was edited on 1/3 11:57 AM by Observer11

Well, I guess that I understood the principle just fine and used it correctly. I am still saying what I originally said, It says nothing about WSU. It seldom applies to sports. There are infinite examples where transitive property does not work. In fact, if it did, then when two teams played each other in the same season, one team would win both games.

 

[Coug1990]

Originally posted by cr8zyncalif:
The Apple Cup is a legitimate point, regardless of whether you have argued with Sponge in the past.

I'll give you a viewpoint, FWIW.

I think Peterson is a good evaluator of talent. I also think he is ruthless about running off kids who aren't going to make it. I doubt that he ever had a year when he didn't sign the full 25 kids. Very focused on that aspect of building and maintaining the program. As an X's and O's coach, I consider him well above average. That is partially due to his being able to scheme his way to several bowl wins over complacent opponents that should have drilled him. So much for his good points.

I have always questioned how good he was in a recruit's living room. And more germane to the Apple Cup and yesterday's bowl discussion, I don't think he handles adversity well. We lost the AC because we made too many mistakes. And Peterson is more than capable of capitalizing on the other team's failures in execution or mental breakdowns. But when the same problems strike his teams, he doesn't do well. There is a reason that most of his wins this year were against teams that finished with poor W/L records. It is not just because he had more/better athletes, though that was part of the story. Just as important in the UW wins was that the teams that they beat made more mistakes. On the flip side, there is also a reason why he lost most of the games they played against more fundamentally competent teams, even if the other team did not have quite as good athletes as UW. UW simply could not overcome the adversity. Think about that. With all the projected future NFL athletes, they could not overcome being hit in the mouth a few times. Is that on the players or the coaches? I think both, but way more than 50% on the coaching staff.

The key to beating UW this year was to get on them early. The key to losing to UW this year was to dig yourself into a hole. IMO that is the long and short version of the Apple Cup this year.

Next year they lose a lot of guys who many people think are very good. It is unlikely that they have athletically equivalent replacements for all those people. Even if they do, they will be inexperienced relative to the guys they are replacing.

And Miles was part of the reason that they did not do better this year. He simply is not very good by PAC QB standards. Unless he becomes a substantially better QB, UW fans should hope that they have somebody who can beat him out this spring. I doubt that will happen, and Miles + lots of new bodies = a retrograde season.

I do agree with much of what you say. Still, I think a large part of his success in bowl games against better teams was the other team took them lightly and they had several trick plays that worked. When you have a month to prepare, trick plays can work. In the grind of a season, they are not as consistently successful and are more of a random success.

Plus, we know that not having to play a good team every week like you have to do in a Big 5 conference helps to keep players healthy and fresh.

Now, I do not think he will be the disaster that Hawkins was, but I do not think he will have near the success that he was at BSU.

 

[YakiCoug]

Ah, the irony of Cougar fans trashing their team in a thread set up to trash huskies. Absolutely incredible.

 

[longtimecoug]

Originally posted by chinookpirate:
Hey dipshit, SpongeBob has been a WSU Cougar Booster and Alumni longer than you've been alive.

Originally posted by CrimsonDisciple:

Originally posted by spongebob11:
You do realize they mopped us our home field, right?

If they suck, what does that say about us?

Anyhow, would have loved to have seem a spin move from the big fella for the icing on the cake

If we had your UW huskies schedule, we'd be in a low tier bowl game as well. We weren't very good this year. We lost our star QB in the middle of the season. On the other hand, you had 3 consensus all Americans on defense..... good luck next year when you lose pretty much your whole defense.

... and no, I didn't even bother to watch the game. Unlike you, I couldn't care less.

how do you know how old Yaki is

 

[spongebob11]

Do you not get the fact that when someone says a team that thrashed us went to a bowl game because they have a cup cake schedule, that is not exactly a glowing endorsement about us?

Its actually very telling about the state of our program that all we have to look forward to is the Huskies losing.

That's pretty bad.

 

[Coug1990]

I always look forward to the uw losing. It is called a rivalry. Even if the Cougars were 13-0, I would look forward to the uw losing. Now, don't get me wrong, I infinitely enjoy the Cougars winning more than I enjoy the uw losing. But, I can and do enjoy both very easily.

 

[YakiCoug]

Originally posted by Coug1990:
I always look forward to the uw losing. It is called a rivalry. Even if the Cougars were 13-0, I would look forward to the uw losing. Now, don't get me wrong, I infinitely enjoy the Cougars winning more than I enjoy the uw losing. But, I can and do enjoy both very easily.

But it's so much more fun to live in an either-or/Taliban kind of world.

 

[longtimecoug]

Originally posted by spongebob11:
Do you not get the fact that when someone says a team that thrashed us went to a bowl game because they have a cup cake schedule, that is not exactly a glowing endorsement about us?

Its actually very telling about the state of our program that all we have to look forward to is the Huskies losing.

That's pretty bad.

is that really all we have to look forward to? I look forward to that no matter how we are doing. The state of our program is just fine, your hero left a team with virtually zero talent, it takes time to dig out of that, the wins will start coming and when they do you will be nowhere to be found

 

[spongebob11]

Nowhere to be found huh?

Kinda like I was nowhere to be found at that 2003 Oregon game? You know..since I don't want the team to win and all that.


And at what point is this Leach's team and the excuses can stop?

Yr 4? Yr 5? Yr 6?

 

[longtimecoug]

Originally posted by spongebob11:
Nowhere to be found huh?

Kinda like I was nowhere to be found at that 2003 Oregon game? You know..since I don't want the team to win and all that.


And at what point is this Leach's team and the excuses can stop?

Yr 4? Yr 5? Yr 6?

what excuses? leach has not made excuses, your hero did ad nauseum

 

[CougEd]

Yeah..I know what you mean...If you supported a previous coach

you can't support the new coach, and vice versa.

 

[spongebob11]

I didn't say Leach did. I was replying to your post about how Wylff left the cupboard bare.

So I'm asking you what yr is it on Leach?

 

[YakiCoug]

Originally posted by spongebob11:
I didn't say Leach did. I was replying to your post about how Wylff left the cupboard bare.

So I'm asking you what yr is it on Leach?

So, do you believe Wulff left enough talent for Leach to win right away, as in 2012? If so, explain.
Beyond that, I don't see any of the posters here who wanted Wulff fired clamoring to keep Leach at all costs. Who has staked his/her personal existence on Leach? Most reasonable fans who accept the reality of the previous regime's recruiting disasters know that 2008-2011 was not a mirror shine of 1998-2000. Anyone who argues otherwise cannot be taken seriously, but many of those predicted dramatic success in years three and four, and they want what they perceive as Leach supporters to do the same.
Most of us want WSU to have a winning season sooner rather than later. But many weren't happy with a bowl game in Leach's second year. If WSU goes 7-5 in 2015, are you going to be happy? What about 8-4? What about 6-6 with a bowl win (7-6)? I'm not sure 9 wins will be enough to win over some fans. Dick Baird found a new home. Maybe some other Cougars should do the same.

 

[spongebob11]

Nobody staked their very existence on the previous regime. Call me crazy..but pretty sure people value their kids, their family etc over arguments about a coach on an anonymous msg board...at least in our world.

Going into the season, I thought we would score...thought the oline would be serviceable...not the disaster they were.

Not sure 2014 was much better than 2012. At least in 2012 we won the apple cup against probably a better husky team..at least offensively.

Yes, I would be happy with 6-6 and a bowl win..especially if we win the Apple Cup.

 

[CougEd]

Well...he went bowling in 2013...and yes, he had enough talent

in 2012 to win if they bought in. They didn't. When I say win, go 6-6 , winning three non conference games and three conference game.

 

[chipdouglas]

Re: The fat adopted Okie rolls and bowls over the mutts

Originally posted by Coug1990:
What is going to be fun is if the Ducks win the National Championship, listening to the uw fans come unglued. They lose their bowl game and Oregon wins the NC. Sportstalk radio will be a fun listen in Seattle.

I honestly can't wait for this. My Husky friends were already trolling the bajeezus out of the "0 national championships" deal as they watched Oregon dismantle the defending champion FSU team which hadn't lost a game since 2012. Methinks there's not much left on their fingernails at this point. But after losing 11 straight times to Oregon, are they starting to waver just a little bit as they cling to that half-a-natty--and a Coaches' Poll natty at that (not the more widely accepted AP)--from 25 years ago? Wouldn't they rather own the rivalry and compete for titles now, rather than blather on about the Bush 41 era when you would literally have up to 4 teams claiming a piece of national titles every year? I think we all know the answer.

To the point of Chris Petersen and BSU brought up elsewhere on this thread, you have to credit BSU for hanging with the big boys. That said, once you've established a presence in a turd conference like the Mountain West, there is a very particular formula for upsets, like they've just achieved again vs. Arizona:
Run the table in your POS conference, or something close to itUse the month off to heal, prepare a Rube Goldberg gameplan for your Power 5 opponent, and convince your players this is the Super Bowl / nobody believes in us / etc.Catch a normally good opponent in your bowl game who narrowly missed a big milestone (title game, bigger bowl), feels they deserve better, and is otherwise looking past you in a big way (also works for early season games with marquee teams acting like you're their typical early season OOC cupcake)Pull out all the stops: Any Given Sunday motivational speech, aggressive play calling, and beaucoup trick playsEnjoy Despite inheriting a roster of NFL defensive talent and a raft of blue chip skill players, Chris Petersen has found this year that #1, #3, #4 and #5 are not possible in the P12 nowadays.

 

[bhamm03]

Re: Well...he went bowling in 2013...and yes, he had enough talent

Are you serious ED, no way in hell that team would have won. They were getting boat raced like crazy. Remember any of those games.

 

[CougEd]

Actually I remember WSU winning four games in 2011

and one inch away from winning five games, and all with back up qbs.

 

[longtimecoug]

Re: Actually I remember WSU winning four games in 2011

Originally posted by CougEd:
and one inch away from winning five games, and all with back up qbs.

and equally as close to winning 2 games

 

[CrimsonDisciple]

Re: The fat adopted Okie rolls and bowls over the mutts

Originally posted by chipdouglas:

Originally posted by Coug1990:
What is going to be fun is if the Ducks win the National Championship, listening to the uw fans come unglued. They lose their bowl game and Oregon wins the NC. Sportstalk radio will be a fun listen in Seattle.

I honestly can't wait for this. My Husky friends were already trolling the bajeezus out of the "0 national championships" deal as they watched Oregon dismantle the defending champion FSU team which hadn't lost a game since 2012. Methinks there's not much left on their fingernails at this point. But after losing 11 straight times to Oregon, are they starting to waver just a little bit as they cling to that half-a-natty--and a Coaches' Poll natty at that (not the more widely accepted AP)--from 25 years ago? Wouldn't they rather own the rivalry and compete for titles now, rather than blather on about the Bush 41 era when you would literally have up to 4 teams claiming a piece of national titles every year? I think we all know the answer.

To the point of Chris Petersen and BSU brought up elsewhere on this thread, you have to credit BSU for hanging with the big boys. That said, once you've established a presence in a turd conference like the Mountain West, there is a very particular formula for upsets, like they've just achieved again vs. Arizona:
Run the table in your POS conference, or something close to itUse the month off to heal, prepare a Rube Goldberg gameplan for your Power 5 opponent, and convince your players this is the Super Bowl / nobody believes in us / etc.Catch a normally good opponent in your bowl game who narrowly missed a big milestone (title game, bigger bowl), feels they deserve better, and is otherwise looking past you in a big way (also works for early season games with marquee teams acting like you're their typical early season OOC cupcake)Pull out all the stops: Any Given Sunday motivational speech, aggressive play calling, and beaucoup trick playsEnjoy Despite inheriting a roster of NFL defensive talent and a raft of blue chip skill players, Chris Petersen has found this year that #1, #3, #4 and #5 are not possible in the P12 nowadays.

If Oregon wins the National Championship, there will be no debate at which program in the NW is the most storied program athletically. Especially considering that UW's era of solid football was before scholarship limits.

 

[CougEd]

And it could be as easily said in 2013 we were just as close to 4-8

The point being they had enough talent to win 6 games in 2012. It didn't happen. But if the worst coach in WSU history can get the team to almost five wins, there was enough talent for Leach to get six. There was two things that happened. One, the kids didn't buy in. Two, it was a small thing but turned out to be a very big thing and that was not having experienced slot receovers, whoch made the QB's look tentative.

 

[CougEd]

So are you saying Wulff did a stellar job with the same team in 2011

and that they over achieved in 2011?

 

[425cougfan]

Agree with virtually all of this ... some very good thoughts here. I fixed a couple things, though. UW had an 0-6 record against FBS teams with a winning record this year. Every single time they played a good team, they lost. They also almost lost to a bad team (Hawaii) and a good but not incredible FCS team (Eastern).

Originally posted by cr8zyncalif:
The Apple Cup is a legitimate point, regardless of whether you have argued with Sponge in the past.

I'll give you a viewpoint, FWIW.

I think Peterson is a good evaluator of talent. I also think he is ruthless about running off kids who aren't going to make it. I doubt that he ever had a year when he didn't sign the full 25 kids. Very focused on that aspect of building and maintaining the program. As an X's and O's coach, I consider him well above average. That is partially due to his being able to scheme his way to several bowl wins over complacent opponents that should have drilled him. So much for his good points.

I have always questioned how good he was in a recruit's living room. And more germane to the Apple Cup and yesterday's bowl discussion, I don't think he handles adversity well. We lost the AC because we made too many mistakes. And Peterson is more than capable of capitalizing on the other team's failures in execution or mental breakdowns. But when the same problems strike his teams, he doesn't do well. There is a reason that all of his wins this year were against teams that finished with poor W/L records. It is not just because he had more/better athletes, though that was part of the story. Just as important in the UW wins was that the teams that they beat made more mistakes. On the flip side, there is also a reason why he lost all of the games they played against more fundamentally competent teams, even if the other team did not have quite as good athletes as UW. UW simply could not overcome the adversity. Think about that. With all the projected future NFL athletes, they could not overcome being hit in the mouth a few times. Is that on the players or the coaches? I think both, but way more than 50% on the coaching staff.

The key to beating UW this year was to get on them early. The key to losing to UW this year was to dig yourself into a hole. IMO that is the long and short version of the Apple Cup this year.

Next year they lose a lot of guys who many people think are very good. It is unlikely that they have athletically equivalent replacements for all those people. Even if they do, they will be inexperienced relative to the guys they are replacing.

And Miles was part of the reason that they did not do better this year. He simply is not very good by PAC QB standards. Unless he becomes a substantially better QB, UW fans should hope that they have somebody who can beat him out this spring. I doubt that will happen, and Miles + lots of new bodies = a retrograde season.

 

[GoldenCoug]

Cr8zy: I agree but that makes our loss in which we were pretty much dominated in Pullman by the Dawgs that much more painful this year.

 

[YakiCoug]

Originally posted by GoldenCoug:
Cr8zy: I agree but that makes our loss in which we were pretty much dominated in Pullman by the Dawgs that much more painful this year.

Well, we didn't have our starting QB in the 2014 AC, if one wishes to go down that road of excuses. It was good enough to explain the AC loss in 2011 and why we didn't get six wins that year.

 

[SCglory]

actually, the events or entities ARE related, else the < or > signs would make no sense whatsoever....you have to phrase it in syllogism form to get at what you're trying to say.....Here is one example, in terms of football team quality

Premise 1. WSU > Utah
Premise 2. Utah > USC

therefore, #3 must follow
Conclusion 3. WSU is greater than USC

That, obviously, is nonsensical since, using the same matrix of measurement (score), WSU is NOT > USC (in 2014) (I.e., they lost to SC)

In a deductive argument like the above, the conclusion MUST be true if both premises are true....and that points to the REAL problem: football success cannot be measured like this using individual games,,,,but I WOULD argue that it can be used when comparing programs....since the larger # of games tends to even out what we might call "fluke" games.....So some kinds of math DO work in measuring football success when the quantities are very large, but the smaller the N factor the less reliable it is....Hence the expression "On any given Saturday",,,,which, I might add, uses the singular word "any" to make that point. But if one compared a THOUSAND Saturdays, transitive trends would emerge that would be both valid AND sound.....For example, play the above argument using lifetime f2f stats.....#2 would be false, thus throwing off the entire argument.....




This post was edited on 1/5 1:09 PM by SCglory

 

[wulffui]

It wasn't a domination...

...until the Mayle fumble- with a capable kicker to have converted a try or two, it would have looked a lot different. We'd looked like the better team, only really getting gashed on their TD, moving the ball between the 30's on O... then Mayle fumbled, our D turtled twice to bracket the half, and it was 21-0. If the Dubs couldn't handle a punch in the mouth, as it were, we curled up as the guy started making a fist.

 

[dgibbons]

Re: Actually I remember WSU winning four games in 2011

Originally posted by CougEd:
and one inch away from winning five games, and all with back up qbs.

The 2011 W-L record was a product of an absurdly easy schedule. And has been discussed ad nasuem, that team was just as close to winning 2 as it was to winning six. The shoulda, coulda game could be played every season. The actal W-L record is what matters. Leach is doing much better than his predecessor, even though he took over about the same level of talent.

 

[dgibbons]

Re: And it could be as easily said in 2013 we were just as close to 4-8

Originally posted by CougEd:
The point being they had enough talent to win 6 games in 2012. It didn't happen. But if the worst coach in WSU history can get the team to almost five wins, there was enough talent for Leach to get six. There was two things that happened. One, the kids didn't buy in. Two, it was a small thing but turned out to be a very big thing and that was not having experienced slot receovers, whoch made the QB's look tentative.

And you wonder why people post on this forum that you don't support the current coach, staked your existence to Wulff, etc. You just can't help yourself from proving it periodically.

 

[dgibbons]

Re: And it could be as easily said in 2013 we were just as close to 4-8

Originally posted by CougEd:
The point being they had enough talent to win 6 games in 2012. It didn't happen. But if the worst coach in WSU history can get the team to almost five wins, there was enough talent for Leach to get six. There was two things that happened. One, the kids didn't buy in. Two, it was a small thing but turned out to be a very big thing and that was not having experienced slot receovers, whoch made the QB's look tentative.

And it wasn't QBs. Tuel is only one person. And he was tentative. He got benched. Not much of a mystery.

 

[wazzubruce]

Re: And it could be as easily said in 2013 we were just as close to 4-8


Back to the thread now....


It's official, the U of W Huskies still suck!

They used the ol' SEC recipe to look like a world beater, while really having beaten nobody.

They beat Hawaii 17-6, then Eastern WU, 59-52, Illinois 44-19 and Georgia STATE ( : ) ) 45-14.

They then beat the bottom 4 of the Pac, - WSU, Oregon State, Cal and Colorado.

There are your 8 wins and a bowl bid.

They also lost to any decent team in the PAC- Oregon, Stanford, ASU, UCLA and Arizona.

They missed Utah (would have been a L and also USC, would also have been a L).

UW will be in down year next year.... they lose a ton of experience and talent this year. : )))))

 

[425cougfan]

Re: And it could be as easily said in 2013 we were just as close to 4-8

They beat Hawaii 17-16. Otherwise, you're absolutely right. They beat precisely nobody this year, and that's with 3 All-Americans and another guy who is either a first-or second-rounder (Peters), not to mention other upperclassmen like Hudson who are going to be gone.

This is a good lesson for scheduling, though ... despite being 8-6 and beating no FBS teams with a .500 record or better, I guarantee that 95% of the public just sees 8 wins and views it as a decent year.

Substitute out two decent teams for any of those four bad OOC opponents and the same squad goes 6-7, doesn't even make a bowl, and pitchforks and torches would already be out for Petersen.

Originally posted by wazzubruce:

Back to the thread now....


It's official, the U of W Huskies still suck!

They used the ol' SEC recipe to look like a world beater, while really having beaten nobody.

They beat Hawaii 17-6, then Eastern WU, 59-52, Illinois 44-19 and Georgia STATE ( : ) ) 45-14.

They then beat the bottom 4 of the Pac, - WSU, Oregon State, Cal and Colorado.

There are your 8 wins and a bowl bid.

They also lost to any decent team in the PAC- Oregon, Stanford, ASU, UCLA and Arizona.

They missed Utah (would have been a L and also USC, would also have been a L).

UW will be in down year next year.... they lose a ton of experience and talent this year. : )))))

 

[YakiCoug]

Re: And it could be as easily said in 2013 we were just as close to 4-8

Originally posted by 425cougfan:
They beat Hawaii 17-16. Otherwise, you're absolutely right. They beat precisely nobody this year, and that's with 3 All-Americans and another guy who is either a first-or second-rounder (Peters), not to mention other upperclassmen like Hudson who are going to be gone.

This is a good lesson for scheduling, though ... despite being 8-6 and beating no FBS teams with a .500 record or better, I guarantee that 95% of the public just sees 8 wins and views it as a decent year.

Substitute out two decent teams for any of those four bad OOC opponents and the same squad goes 6-7, doesn't even make a bowl, and pitchforks and torches would already be out for Petersen.

Originally posted by wazzubruce:

Back to the thread now....


It's official, the U of W Huskies still suck!

They used the ol' SEC recipe to look like a world beater, while really having beaten nobody.

They beat Hawaii 17-6, then Eastern WU, 59-52, Illinois 44-19 and Georgia STATE ( : ) ) 45-14.

They then beat the bottom 4 of the Pac, - WSU, Oregon State, Cal and Colorado.

There are your 8 wins and a bowl bid.

They also lost to any decent team in the PAC- Oregon, Stanford, ASU, UCLA and Arizona.

They missed Utah (would have been a L and also USC, would also have been a L).

UW will be in down year next year.... they lose a ton of experience and talent this year. : )))))

Take away Idaho State and a bad UNLV team playing its second road game in six days, and you get the delusional who thought Leach inherited a great team in 2012.