National news story os a RB who committed to OSU not knowing that the coach who recruited him was leaving. His HS coach is upset saying they lied to the kid and did not tell him. Evidently the kid did not commit to other schools because of the coaching changes. End of story, OSU got the kid. Urban Myer now says" they have to move on" Different ending in that episode.
Ohio State coaching change and recruiting
- Thread starter ElComanche
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Same thing happened at Texas today.
Link: http://www.burntorangenation.com/2015/2/6/7992927/texas-longhorns-chris-rumph-duvonta-lampkin-charles-omenihu-charlie-strong
There are probably similar stories at UCLA where the defensive coordinator left right after signing day. It seems like the teams who lie keep the good players. I guess that Leach took the high road and lost on this one. The problem lies with Simmons who kept his intergrity as a recruiter but cost the cougs dearly. He stabbed Leach in the back but got what he wanted. He could have told OLK to wait until the recruiting season was over before he interviewed. They,Simmons included, knew the possible ramifications at him interviewing so close to NSD. They would have waited as they wanted his connections in Cal. They may have badly wanted Dahu Green and he was thrown in as a bonus. How many years did Leach coach with this guy ?,13 years or something like that.Simmons,in my book,did not repay Leach's loyalty to him with the same on kind.Yes ,Simmons is happy but it cost him some close friends ,if that means anything to him.Karma is a bitch and i believe it will come back to bite him in the arse.
I think it is likely that Leach is furious, what Simmons did is inexcusable, he should have waited and kept his mouth shut.
this is on a par with price dumping on the Cougs prior to the Rose Bowl
In todays world of instant communication,one does not have to open one's mouth to spread the word. Everyone knew about it right after he interviewed. Sometimes what is not said is as good as saying it. His comment of "no comment' said it all when questioned about it. If a recruit heard these articles about him interviewing for the job and wanted reassurance ,what do you think Simmons said? Do you think a "no comment" would be reassuring to a recruit and his family? They had built up a years worth of trust and promises. You compare football to a business. What do you think would happen in a competitive business if an employer heard a employee was talking to a competitor who was trying to steal an idea , secure a big contract ,formula or patent.? Most likely he /she would be fired on the spot. No,Simmons got his "dream job" but at the expense of WSU's football program. I do not think that there will be a goodby party in Pullman where they toast each other and promise to get together and trade football stories. The NSD was not a celebratory day which it usually is. Meastro's "no comment" said it all also. You assume too much if you think that any of the coaching staff is really happy with Simmons. Most of their hard work paid off and they were mutually counting on Simmons to do his share. Leach has just made a comment " that his present coaching staff was the best he had ever had." Simmon's actions will hurt the cougs on the football field next year and into next year's recruiting
Guys, until CML himself, or one of the other senior assistants, or Simmons addresses this specifically, we won't really know what was said by whom, or when.
A couple of things are clear and not subject to a lot of debate:
- Simmons leaving hurt our recruiting class this year.
- Simmons told CML that he was being approached. The boss knew that another protege was after Simmons.
- CML in general supports the idea that his assistants should avail themselves of career growth opportunities.
We really don't know the rest of the details. Did Lincoln speak directly with Mike at some point? Did CML ask Simmons to keep it under wraps? Did Simmons make a commitment to CML that he failed to keep? Was the leak a function of talk at the OU end, at the WSU end, or due to random fans seeing somebody at an airport or on a campus? We don't know and it is pretty much a waste of digital breath until/unless one of the participants chooses to address the issue.
A couple of things are clear and not subject to a lot of debate:
- Simmons leaving hurt our recruiting class this year.
- Simmons told CML that he was being approached. The boss knew that another protege was after Simmons.
- CML in general supports the idea that his assistants should avail themselves of career growth opportunities.
We really don't know the rest of the details. Did Lincoln speak directly with Mike at some point? Did CML ask Simmons to keep it under wraps? Did Simmons make a commitment to CML that he failed to keep? Was the leak a function of talk at the OU end, at the WSU end, or due to random fans seeing somebody at an airport or on a campus? We don't know and it is pretty much a waste of digital breath until/unless one of the participants chooses to address the issue.
Ok, first you said that he should have kept his mouth shut. Which he did, because he didn't say anything. Now you are saying that he did nothing to address the rumors. Now you are saying he should have opened his mouth. What was he going to say if he addressed the rumors? Yes, I am leaving to Oklahoma. Yes, I could see how that could have helped. I am sure that he did what Leach asked of him once he knew he was leaving. You know what did happen? Simmons went dark. He didn't recruit to Oklahoma, nor did he recruit for WSU. That is the best that anyone could ask for in this situation. There was no good time to leave. Frankly, this was handled much better than the Ohio State or Texas situations where the recruits were lied to. All coaches are independent contractors. At one time or another, they all leave.
Are you still at your first job? People change jobs. Mike Leach left his long time pal, Hal Mumme, at Kentucky to go to Oklahoma. How do you know that Mike Leach didn't tell him to say "No Comment." The leak did not come from WSU. Heck, it has been reported for a week or two that WSU has already hired a new WR coach, yet we do not know for sure who that is. The leak was reported on the Oklahoma side, as it was in one of their blogs.
For all we know, Simmons did tell the recruits to honor their verbal to WSU. Should Alex Grinch have not taken the WSU job? Should he have waited until after signing day? Coaches come. Coaches go. This is the business of coaching.
You and I are on the same side here. People act like they have never left a job for a better situation for themselves. Heck, when Leach hired Simmons, it was right in an important part of recruiting season at ECU. Plus, Leach also took Clay McGuire and Antonio Huffman from ECU. Should Leach have waited until after recruiting season in order to not hurt ECU? Or, did he do the right thing for WSU at that time?
Well i have said all i want to this subject in posts. However, one last thing i have to say is that i have more respect now for Leach and less for Simmons.
LTC...First, Simmons did nothing wrong...he was happy in Pullman
and Oklahoma contacted him. Then Oklahoma offered him a job late in recruiting. They gave him time, like probably 10 days to give them an answer.
His final answer to Leach did not come until one day before signing. Leach had tried to persuade him to stay. He went back and forth with the decision. I am sure it came down to several things.
One, he is closer to his wife's family. Happy wife makes a happy life. He has worked side by side with Mike for 15 years. HE was never going to be a coordinator for Leach. He has gone as far with Leach as possible.
You are whining about four or five replaceable parts. The linebacker while considered fours stars I said from the moment I saw his film he doesn't have Pac 12 burst. The bigger "loss" is the kid from Steilacom.
The second loss is a kid from Oklahoma and got an offer late in the game and left.
The third loss is Mason who flipped once and went to SJSU.
And Burnett. The moment he said he was going to Michigan for a visit he was gone. Meant something wasnt right with WSU.
Let me ask you...do you really want kids this unsure of where they want to be? Do you want kids who flip their commitments, in some cases for more fame and glory, short term fame and glory.
In two of the cases you are looking at Ark Hall and Shelton Danzy.
If you want a complaint, the more valid complaint (and I don't think it is valid) would be evaluating these kids.
and Oklahoma contacted him. Then Oklahoma offered him a job late in recruiting. They gave him time, like probably 10 days to give them an answer.
His final answer to Leach did not come until one day before signing. Leach had tried to persuade him to stay. He went back and forth with the decision. I am sure it came down to several things.
One, he is closer to his wife's family. Happy wife makes a happy life. He has worked side by side with Mike for 15 years. HE was never going to be a coordinator for Leach. He has gone as far with Leach as possible.
You are whining about four or five replaceable parts. The linebacker while considered fours stars I said from the moment I saw his film he doesn't have Pac 12 burst. The bigger "loss" is the kid from Steilacom.
The second loss is a kid from Oklahoma and got an offer late in the game and left.
The third loss is Mason who flipped once and went to SJSU.
And Burnett. The moment he said he was going to Michigan for a visit he was gone. Meant something wasnt right with WSU.
Let me ask you...do you really want kids this unsure of where they want to be? Do you want kids who flip their commitments, in some cases for more fame and glory, short term fame and glory.
In two of the cases you are looking at Ark Hall and Shelton Danzy.
If you want a complaint, the more valid complaint (and I don't think it is valid) would be evaluating these kids.
Simmons did a good job while he was at WSU and I wish he stuck around but I don't understand questioning his integrity. Seems like a lot of whining. I am sure Leach wanted him to stay and is disappointed he left for Oklahoma. Angry? Feeling like he stabbed him in the back? Come on, isn't that incredibly naïve? They had 10+ years together.
Re: LTC...First, Simmons did nothing wrong...he was happy in Pullman
who's whining? I am stating my opinion. this should have been kept quiet until after signing day and it wasn't
Re: LTC...First, Simmons did nothing wrong...he was happy in Pullman
So, you're mad at Simmon's because someone at Oklahoma spilled the beans? Frankly, the way it happened is the best way for it to happen. Much better than coaches lying to players like what occurred at Texas, OSU, etc.
Agree. Disappointed is the right word. Angry? Not even close. Every assistant football coach is an independent contractor on one year contracts. Simmons did what is right for his family. Not sure why this is even an issue with some people.
Re: LTC...First, Simmons did nothing wrong...he was happy in Pullman
So, you're mad at Simmon's because someone at Oklahoma spilled the beans? Frankly, the way it happened is the best way for it to happen. Much better than coaches lying to players like what occurred at Texas, OSU, etc. [/QUOTE]
Re: LTC...First, Simmons did nothing wrong...he was happy in Pullman
It's only going to take a couple of plays before the legend of Foto Leiato wears off. He's not going to have these opportunities in the Pac12 and there's some really good special teams coaches making sure it won't happen as well as some good head coaches willing to fire them if it does.
It's only going to take a couple of plays before the legend of Foto Leiato wears off. He's not going to have these opportunities in the Pac12 and there's some really good special teams coaches making sure it won't happen as well as some good head coaches willing to fire them if it does.
Re: Fro...not talking about special teams...it is about what he will do in the
Oh, sure, because there's no difference between what a 6-0,190-pounder does against 2a competition and what he might do against Pac12 competition. Not saying he isn't your next Louis Bland, but you probably should wait for him to get on the duck campus before you choke on superlatives.
But since you've declared Leiatu better than Tezino, perhaps you should consider the level of competition each played against. Keep in mind what Thomas Toki recently said about the competition he faced his senior year at St. Francis and what he faced in the KingCo.
Just wanted to help you calm down a bit.
This post was edited on 2/8 4:13 PM by YakiCoug
"It is about what he WILL do in the backfield"?
Oh, sure, because there's no difference between what a 6-0,190-pounder does against 2a competition and what he might do against Pac12 competition. Not saying he isn't your next Louis Bland, but you probably should wait for him to get on the duck campus before you choke on superlatives.
But since you've declared Leiatu better than Tezino, perhaps you should consider the level of competition each played against. Keep in mind what Thomas Toki recently said about the competition he faced his senior year at St. Francis and what he faced in the KingCo.
Just wanted to help you calm down a bit.
This post was edited on 2/8 4:13 PM by YakiCoug
Trust me, 2a is lower level competition. Played in it for 4 years including against Steilacoom, and any well coached team (Pullman, Prosser, Othello, Tumwater, WF west) would play one quarter against most other teams and win handily. It's all about lines, and most kids out there are your average high schoolers who don't want to hit but want to wear a uniform and look cool. Fotu is aggressive and a bowling ball but he was out there playing against guys who would rather fall over than get hit. I don't think he'll be a bust, but the playing field will be leveled. I think he may be a bit overrated due to his viral video, and will become a good special teams player and solid contributor. Something like cyrus coen.
Re: Sure..but was that really the point of the entire thread, or was it about
how do you know that is what happened?
Because those closest to him outside of football
didn't know, and they live in Pullman. Leach knew he was interviewing for the job, and rumor has it Leach was trying to sell him on the idea of staying in Pullman. While it was pretty much a done deal before signing day, there was a ray of hope he would stay, and rumor has it he told Leach of his final final decision on the day before signing day.
So it did not come out of Simmons mouth he was thinking of leaving, and it certainly wasn't leaked by Leach or staff.
didn't know, and they live in Pullman. Leach knew he was interviewing for the job, and rumor has it Leach was trying to sell him on the idea of staying in Pullman. While it was pretty much a done deal before signing day, there was a ray of hope he would stay, and rumor has it he told Leach of his final final decision on the day before signing day.
So it did not come out of Simmons mouth he was thinking of leaving, and it certainly wasn't leaked by Leach or staff.
Re: Because those closest to him outside of football
Is this rumor tantamount to gas from one of your orifices? Btw, you do know that Simmons was not included on in-home visits in the week or so before signing day? Certainly your gas told you so.
Re: Because those closest to him outside of football
Agreed. The timing sucked but it is, what it is. This move wasn't personal, except for one person. Simmons. Hope he has some incredible success.
Agreed. The timing sucked but it is, what it is. This move wasn't personal, except for one person. Simmons. Hope he has some incredible success.
Well....
First there is LTC's assertion Simmons should have kept his mouth shut. For some reason he thinks he is the source of the leak. It certainly wasn't WSU or Leach. Heck, we have zero idea if player A, B, or C are injured or not. Leach clearly keeps things very close to the vest. Is it any surprise when Grinch is named DC and that hire comes out of left field and no one had an inkling? Why? Cause that is how Leach does business. He has a small inner circle and he does not let information get out.
Second, it was reported by Oklahoma that Simmons was a candidate. How that is Simmons fault or responsibility I have no idea.
Third, those closest to Simmons did not know he was interviewing. They live in the same town as he does. And I will take away the rumor adjective and say flat out Leach knew Simmons was very interested in that job. Leach gave him time to think about it, and tried to come up with a way to keep Simmons in Pullman. While Simmons at the time was pretty sure that was the right time to make a move, leach gave him time to think about it. Simmons did not tell Leach for sure he was taking the job until Feb 3rd.
Because Leach knew of the offer, I am sure he did not want to put a coach who was on the fence in position to where he would have to answer questions about his rumored future, thus he took Simmons off the recruiting trail. That way Simmons didn't have to either confirm or deny such rumors. And Leach and his other staff could honestly say Simmons is out of town or whatever other reasons why he was not in on in home visits etc.
But to blame several recruiting loses on Simmons is not fair or accurate. And as I said before, if the loses were up front there would be more reason for concern. Two of the four are at a position where they are a dime a dozen.
First there is LTC's assertion Simmons should have kept his mouth shut. For some reason he thinks he is the source of the leak. It certainly wasn't WSU or Leach. Heck, we have zero idea if player A, B, or C are injured or not. Leach clearly keeps things very close to the vest. Is it any surprise when Grinch is named DC and that hire comes out of left field and no one had an inkling? Why? Cause that is how Leach does business. He has a small inner circle and he does not let information get out.
Second, it was reported by Oklahoma that Simmons was a candidate. How that is Simmons fault or responsibility I have no idea.
Third, those closest to Simmons did not know he was interviewing. They live in the same town as he does. And I will take away the rumor adjective and say flat out Leach knew Simmons was very interested in that job. Leach gave him time to think about it, and tried to come up with a way to keep Simmons in Pullman. While Simmons at the time was pretty sure that was the right time to make a move, leach gave him time to think about it. Simmons did not tell Leach for sure he was taking the job until Feb 3rd.
Because Leach knew of the offer, I am sure he did not want to put a coach who was on the fence in position to where he would have to answer questions about his rumored future, thus he took Simmons off the recruiting trail. That way Simmons didn't have to either confirm or deny such rumors. And Leach and his other staff could honestly say Simmons is out of town or whatever other reasons why he was not in on in home visits etc.
But to blame several recruiting loses on Simmons is not fair or accurate. And as I said before, if the loses were up front there would be more reason for concern. Two of the four are at a position where they are a dime a dozen.
Re: Well....
It is pretty obvious that the leak came from Oklahoma not Pullman. Maybe someone on the Ok. staff blabbed or maybe someone just noticed Simmons driving the rental car to the U. of O. and put two and two together considering that Riley and Stoops were assembling a new offensive crew. Simmons is certainly not unknown in that area and could have easily been spotted and identified.
Ed hits the nail on the head as far as I am concerned regarding Leach's reaction. Leach and Simmons discuss the offer. Leach reluctantly understands. Simmons interviews with Ok. Leach takes him off the recruiting duty and tries to talk him out of the transfer to no avail. Simmons takes the offer in early Feb. All speculation on my part as all other comments are pure speculation but the process appears pretty straightforward and simple to me.
I wish Simmons well in his new position. He is a good fit for the new offensive policy in Oklahoma and I can well understand why they went after him. He should do a good job for them.
It is pretty obvious that the leak came from Oklahoma not Pullman. Maybe someone on the Ok. staff blabbed or maybe someone just noticed Simmons driving the rental car to the U. of O. and put two and two together considering that Riley and Stoops were assembling a new offensive crew. Simmons is certainly not unknown in that area and could have easily been spotted and identified.
Ed hits the nail on the head as far as I am concerned regarding Leach's reaction. Leach and Simmons discuss the offer. Leach reluctantly understands. Simmons interviews with Ok. Leach takes him off the recruiting duty and tries to talk him out of the transfer to no avail. Simmons takes the offer in early Feb. All speculation on my part as all other comments are pure speculation but the process appears pretty straightforward and simple to me.
I wish Simmons well in his new position. He is a good fit for the new offensive policy in Oklahoma and I can well understand why they went after him. He should do a good job for them.
Sounds about right. Urban is a scumbag and scumbags run scumbag crews. This might be news to people who didn't follow his career until he wound up in the college title game again, but for those who have been watching since his Florida days and before, this is business as usual. Same dude was a mentor to Aaron Hernandez for cripe's sake. That's not Urban's fault entirely but we'd all like to think we could screen out murderers. Urban had 31 arrests at UF. He might be the biggest win-at-all-costs guy in the coaching game right now at any level.
It's also why the whole feelgood tOSU underdog narrative leading up to the title game made me nauseous. You have the scummiest of all bags heading up one of the most star-studded rosters in all of college football at one of the nation's elite football schools, they arguably don't belong in the game in the first place, and Urby is no doubt looking the other way on God knows how many crimes, and we're supposed to be cheering on the "little" engine that could? Please.
It's also why the whole feelgood tOSU underdog narrative leading up to the title game made me nauseous. You have the scummiest of all bags heading up one of the most star-studded rosters in all of college football at one of the nation's elite football schools, they arguably don't belong in the game in the first place, and Urby is no doubt looking the other way on God knows how many crimes, and we're supposed to be cheering on the "little" engine that could? Please.
I said i was through posting on this but as always one last word. Somehow Stoops has seemingly never been the paragon of ethical behavior. Imagine a different scenario. Stoops states" it is down to you and one other candidate". " if we hire you can you deliver for US ?" Interviewee takes a deep breath " yes i can and i can prove it. I know you guys really want recruit X and he will go wherever i go" . Now he has to leak word out, that he may take the Oklahoma job. He knows that recruit X has stated that his word to the cougs is solid. How does he do it without it being traced to the source?. You get the picture . There are so many scenarios and we may never know the real truth.All one is sure of is of the effect it had on coug recruiting. Yes these 4 star recruits have been a dime and dozen to coug football so it does not really matter?. To ascribe noble intentions or greedy intentions is not possible now. It is all conjecture with no real facts to back either position up. I do not wish Simmons bad but i do not wish him a great deal of success..It is all conjecture and poster's thinking that Leach's complete,now old staff,, staff will gather and sing cumbaya(sp) at an going away barbeque party are probably way off. What's done is done and Coug football has to move on.
