OT: Bad PR move by Harbaugh

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Just watched a recent Real Sports w/ Bryant Gumbel, and there's a piece on there about (another) pedophile/ rapist that spent a career at UM, telling athletes that they needed prostate exams and/ or needed to give semen samples that he personally had to collect. This was back in the 70s and 80s. It worth watching if you have HBO.

A couple of things:
UM refuses to acknowledge the issue, at all. In fact, they pulled the scholly and removed from the team one athlete that wrote a letter to the president with his allegations.
Bo Schembeckler was coach for most of the time and has been absolved of any and all knowledge, despite the Dr being known as "Dr Ben Dover"
Harbaugh has publicly backed Schembeckler and absolves him from any and all wrongdoing or knowledge of such.
I find it interesting that in this time of "me too", these male athletes are getting "fck you", more than likely because of the ol' adage that "men can't be raped."

I'll see if there is a link to the piece that is free and add it if so.

Article 1

There's a ton out there, but (not) surprisingly its not getting a ton of national traction. Just google "UM Robert Anderson." It appears UM is heading towards a settlement with the victims at this point.

 

[chipdouglas]

Just watched a recent Real Sports w/ Bryant Gumbel, and there's a piece on there about (another) pedophile/ rapist that spent a career at UM, telling athletes that they needed prostate exams and/ or needed to give semen samples that he personally had to collect. This was back in the 70s and 80s. It worth watching if you have HBO.

A couple of things:
UM refuses to acknowledge the issue, at all. In fact, they pulled the scholly and removed from the team one athlete that wrote a letter to the president with his allegations.
Bo Schembeckler was coach for most of the time and has been absolved of any and all knowledge, despite the Dr being known as "Dr Ben Dover"
Harbaugh has publicly backed Schembeckler and absolves him from any and all wrongdoing or knowledge of such.
I find it interesting that in this time of "me too", these male athletes are getting "fck you", more than likely because of the ol' adage that "men can't be raped."

I'll see if there is a link to the piece that is free and add it if so.

Article 1

There's a ton out there, but (not) surprisingly its not getting a ton of national traction. Just google "UM Robert Anderson." It appears UM is heading towards a settlement with the victims at this point.

We can all imagine our own self-serving examples in current events, but I think there is a strategy emerging to counter scandals, which is to just (a) deny it ever happened and/or (b) deny it's a big deal. Consistent with an increasingly low-honor culture. If you think about it, it's not as risky as it sounds: you take some early arrows, dig your heels in, and if it goes away, great. If not, and the pressure crescendos, you just say, "wow, I never thought about it that way, now I'll take action." An inadequately squeaky wheel gets ignored, while a more powerful squeaky wheel will likely accept the initial hesitation as long as it gets what it wants in the end. There is only power now.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

We can all imagine our own self-serving examples in current events, but I think there is a strategy emerging to counter scandals, which is to just (a) deny it ever happened and/or (b) deny it's a big deal. Consistent with an increasingly low-honor culture. If you think about it, it's not as risky as it sounds: you take some early arrows, dig your heels in, and if it goes away, great. If not, and the pressure crescendos, you just say, "wow, I never thought about it that way, now I'll take action." An inadequately squeaky wheel gets ignored, while a more powerful squeaky wheel will likely accept the initial hesitation as long as it gets what it wants in the end. There is only power now.

I'm still just baffled at the amount of look-the-other-way that goes on at high level athletics. The USA gymnastics Dr was digitally penetrating those girls with the mom in the room sometimes - HOW THE FCK DOES THAT NOT REGISTER?

I could list a thousand questions about why these circumstances were allowed to continue at all, let alone for so long, but I wouldn't be covering any new ground. I just don't understand it - there is zero risk or shame in outing a sex offender, and there never has been, so why not just do it?

 

[Flatlandcoug]

I'm still just baffled at the amount of look-the-other-way that goes on at high level athletics. The USA gymnastics Dr was digitally penetrating those girls with the mom in the room sometimes - HOW THE FCK DOES THAT NOT REGISTER?

I could list a thousand questions about why these circumstances were allowed to continue at all, let alone for so long, but I wouldn't be covering any new ground. I just don't understand it - there is zero risk or shame in outing a sex offender, and there never has been, so why not just do it?

You are wrong about zero risk or shame in the past. Things have changed a lot in the past 10 years but there used to be a lot of risk in coming out to report a high profile sex offender. The canned response in the 80's and 90's was, "Well, if you weren't such a whore, you wouldn't have been raped. Shame on you for entrapping that poor man!".

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

You are wrong about zero risk or shame in the past. Things have changed a lot in the past 10 years but there used to be a lot of risk in coming out to report a high profile sex offender. The canned response in the 80's and 90's was, "Well, if you weren't such a whore, you wouldn't have been raped. Shame on you for entrapping that poor man!".

I'm taking about administrators reporting, not the victims.

 

[95coug]

You are wrong about zero risk or shame in the past. Things have changed a lot in the past 10 years but there used to be a lot of risk in coming out to report a high profile sex offender. The canned response in the 80's and 90's was, "Well, if you weren't such a whore, you wouldn't have been raped. Shame on you for entrapping that poor man!".

I think on an individual level, the only thing that has really changed is that "she was asking for it" has turned into "can she prove it"? The second one doesn't necessarily blame the victim, but it still diminishes the accusation.

What we're seeing more of now is the serial offenders being exposed. None of the individuals can necessarily prove anything, but when there are 20 victims independently telling very similar stories, it becomes more compelling.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

I'm taking about administrators reporting, not the victims.

Fair enough......but the discourse over the past 10 years has been mostly about how the powers that be have always sided with the men in the case and assumed that the women should be ignored. The downside for administrations was that they knew that rape and sexual misconduct was rampant and they didn't want to be the ones that were going to be admitting that there was a problem. It was far easier to pretend that it didn't exist because they didn't want to be on an island.

If you think about it, Penn State hid Sandusky from the world because they were worried about being crushed by the media....which happened once it came out. After they were finally forced to face the heat, it's now becoming clear that a lot of universities had at least one sex offender on their payroll. Penn State would have undoubtedly been better off outing Sandusky right away, but we all know that there is never a "good" time to admit that you've had a sexual deviant person working in your firm/college.

The changes that have happened in the past 10 years should have happened decades ago, but it's hard to change from a culture where it used to be ok to slap a woman on the ass to one where you respect boundaries...moreso because there is no right answer. At a company gathering last night, a female employee from another one of our offices was hugging people (men & women) before she left and saying, "see you guys in the near future!". When was the last time that a man went around handing out hugs to all the dudes in the office before he left? It happens...but it's rare. There wasn't anything wrong with what she did, but with as messed up as people are, it's way too easy for someone with issues to take things the wrong way.

 

[95coug]

Fair enough......but the discourse over the past 10 years has been mostly about how the powers that be have always sided with the men in the case and assumed that the women should be ignored. The downside for administrations was that they knew that rape and sexual misconduct was rampant and they didn't want to be the ones that were going to be admitting that there was a problem. It was far easier to pretend that it didn't exist because they didn't want to be on an island.

If you think about it, Penn State hid Sandusky from the world because they were worried about being crushed by the media....which happened once it came out. After they were finally forced to face the heat, it's now becoming clear that a lot of universities had at least one sex offender on their payroll. Penn State would have undoubtedly been better off outing Sandusky right away, but we all know that there is never a "good" time to admit that you've had a sexual deviant person working in your firm/college.

The changes that have happened in the past 10 years should have happened decades ago, but it's hard to change from a culture where it used to be ok to slap a woman on the ass to one where you respect boundaries...moreso because there is no right answer. At a company gathering last night, a female employee from another one of our offices was hugging people (men & women) before she left and saying, "see you guys in the near future!". When was the last time that a man went around handing out hugs to all the dudes in the office before he left? It happens...but it's rare. There wasn't anything wrong with what she did, but with as messed up as people are, it's way too easy for someone with issues to take things the wrong way.

In today's working world, it's best not to hand out any hugs. You're either going to offend someone who received an unwanted hug or you're going to offend someone who wanted a hug and didn't get one. Or you're going to discriminate by hugging 5 women and only 2 men. Or only straight people. Or only white people. Or no trans people. Or only people under 50. Or only people with brown hair. Etc., etc.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

In today's working world, it's best not to hand out any hugs. You're either going to offend someone who received an unwanted hug or you're going to offend someone who wanted a hug and didn't get one. Or you're going to discriminate by hugging 5 women and only 2 men. Or only straight people. Or only white people. Or no trans people. Or only people under 50. Or only people with brown hair. Etc., etc.

I make sure to full body hug only the hot chicks under 30.

 

[chipdouglas]

Fair enough......but the discourse over the past 10 years has been mostly about how the powers that be have always sided with the men in the case and assumed that the women should be ignored. The downside for administrations was that they knew that rape and sexual misconduct was rampant and they didn't want to be the ones that were going to be admitting that there was a problem. It was far easier to pretend that it didn't exist because they didn't want to be on an island.

If you think about it, Penn State hid Sandusky from the world because they were worried about being crushed by the media....which happened once it came out. After they were finally forced to face the heat, it's now becoming clear that a lot of universities had at least one sex offender on their payroll. Penn State would have undoubtedly been better off outing Sandusky right away, but we all know that there is never a "good" time to admit that you've had a sexual deviant person working in your firm/college.

The changes that have happened in the past 10 years should have happened decades ago, but it's hard to change from a culture where it used to be ok to slap a woman on the ass to one where you respect boundaries...moreso because there is no right answer. At a company gathering last night, a female employee from another one of our offices was hugging people (men & women) before she left and saying, "see you guys in the near future!". When was the last time that a man went around handing out hugs to all the dudes in the office before he left? It happens...but it's rare. There wasn't anything wrong with what she did, but with as messed up as people are, it's way too easy for someone with issues to take things the wrong way.

I ended my post with "there is only power now." When you consider that they circled the wagons around Sandusky, this UM creep, USA gymnastics etc., the common thread is power. Here are powerful figures being protected by powerful institutions for their own self-interested reasons.

By contrast, young men in college - who are not powerful, and not material to institutional survival - are now completely at the mercy of morning-after-regret testimonies for the same encounters that have been occurring in college for decades. There is scarcely due process when accused of rape (which has a completely different definition on campus now than before) or thought crimes, personified most notably by Brian Banks, Duke Lacrosse etc.

I'm open to data, but I do not believe the cartoon world you seem to describe ever meaningfully existed, where rape/molestation was generally written off as "she was asking for it." In fact, it sounds like the intro to a Women's Studies 100-level course. I know of a number of cases among extended family/friends, and the rationale for keeping it under wraps was always avoiding public embarrassment or punishment for the perpetrator (which was evil), but never Conan the Barbarian victim-blaming.

 

[chipdouglas]

I ended my post with "there is only power now." When you consider that they circled the wagons around Sandusky, this UM creep, USA gymnastics etc., the common thread is power. Here are powerful figures being protected by powerful institutions for their own self-interested reasons.

By contrast, young men in college - who are not powerful, and not material to institutional survival - are now completely at the mercy of morning-after-regret testimonies for the same encounters that have been occurring in college for decades. There is scarcely due process when accused of rape (which has a completely different definition on campus now than before) or thought crimes, personified most notably by Brian Banks, Duke Lacrosse etc.

I'm open to data, but I do not believe the cartoon world you seem to describe ever meaningfully existed, where rape/molestation was generally written off as "she was asking for it." In fact, it sounds like the intro to a Women's Studies 100-level course. I know of a number of cases among extended family/friends, and the rationale for keeping it under wraps was always avoiding public embarrassment or punishment for the perpetrator (which was evil), but never Conan the Barbarian victim-blaming.

I should caveat my own rule about power by providing for cases where a powerful individual is targeted by other powerful people. Jon Gruden comes to mind.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

I should caveat my own rule about power by providing for cases where a powerful individual is targeted by other powerful people. Jon Gruden comes to mind.

What a railroad job that was, right? People go fishing for MORE impropriety within the WFT organization and Gruden become the sacrificial lamb, while Snyder and Co silently slip into the shadows. How many photos of Goddell with underage male hookers does Snyder have?

 

[cr8zyncalif]

I think one thing that has changed over the past 3-4 decades is the concept of one's personal legacy. While wrong doing can be shunted aside, at least temporarily, by institutions, the same does not not apply to the same extent to individuals. And a surprising number of folks who were pretty wishy-washy about the morality of their decisions seem to be more concerned about their legacy. Me Too has had some success in that respect. Anybody with a clue about PR should have gotten the message by now that individuals can't avoid the mud splatter as well as institutions. Utterly different strategy to try to minimize impact on the two. As for individuals, the legacy deterioration impacts how they are viewed at the alum events, the country club, on the golf course, at the bridge club, etc. And that is a real consequence. It might seem trivial to you or me, but for those who crave power and the ability to misuse it, loss of status and legacy are significant. And to some extent, that seems to be modifying behavior. It's not perfect, but you can see the progress over time. For what that is worth....

 

[Coug90]

I ended my post with "there is only power now." When you consider that they circled the wagons around Sandusky, this UM creep, USA gymnastics etc., the common thread is power. Here are powerful figures being protected by powerful institutions for their own self-interested reasons.

By contrast, young men in college - who are not powerful, and not material to institutional survival - are now completely at the mercy of morning-after-regret testimonies for the same encounters that have been occurring in college for decades. There is scarcely due process when accused of rape (which has a completely different definition on campus now than before) or thought crimes, personified most notably by Brian Banks, Duke Lacrosse etc.

I'm open to data, but I do not believe the cartoon world you seem to describe ever meaningfully existed, where rape/molestation was generally written off as "she was asking for it." In fact, it sounds like the intro to a Women's Studies 100-level course. I know of a number of cases among extended family/friends, and the rationale for keeping it under wraps was always avoiding public embarrassment or punishment for the perpetrator (which was evil), but never Conan the Barbarian victim-blaming.

Nailed it chip. I think gender is largely irrelevant, it’s all about power and fear of losing power. One of the biggest issues is lack of accountability for those who knew and did nothing. Yeah Sandusky is rotting as he should be but plenty of others who knew something wasn’t right and let it go went unpunished. Another one was OSU and we have a lawmaker that’s been in office what, 15 years, who knew and turned a blind eye. This part of it is absurd.