i did not call any one a racist. If anyone wants to self identify then they are welcome.to try the shoe on.There are some people who call trump a racist ,he thinks of himself as a great uniter of people.One recognizes that there are a great diversity of opinions and who knows what exists in the heart of hearts? People here called Ali a racist and is not that a serious indictment of the man?
OT: Muhammad Ali, "The Greatest," stings and floats no more...
- Thread starter YakiCoug
- Start date
For much of his public life he espoused racist views. I do have a problem with that, and racism in general. He was for the lynching of both white and black people who were in "mixed" relationships. For killing them. This was something he stated publicly. How does that mesh with what we heard all week about him? I am not saying he went to his grave with these beliefs. I also would have issues with a Klan guy who later came out against them...particularly if those previous transgressions were washed away and they tried to make him into a figure of social justice. I do not see any difference between the two. I really have no dog in the fight over the Vietnam war as it was before my time. In general I prefer the all volunteer force of today, but understand it is a different time. Yes I served, if that matters. I just get tired of limited understandings being perpetuated into some cult hero status. If you really liked him, great. I have always been mistrustful of folks who have that big of a stake in racist ideals at any point in their life.
In theory, IQ tests aren't dependent on education. In practice, there is a correlation between the two. but not enough to explain an IQ that low. Ali couldn't read or write, which is a requirement for most IQ tests. That might have been a factor, malingering may have also -- his test were administered in association with his military induction.
Conversely, Forrest and Chauncey never fell under the spell of a cult leader. Ali did not "dodge" the war, he refused induction in person, was arrested, was prosecuted and sentenced. Dodging is what Trump, Bush, Clinton and tens of thousand of other rich and middle class white kids did. That is why we are talking about him. Sometimes, Ed you amaze me on the "not getting it" front.
Poor choice of words, as other "dodge" the war. He dodged bullets and he dodged killing people he had zero beef with by refusing to go.
You don’t see any difference between the ‘Klan guy’ and Ali?
Given the conditions during the 60s was Ali's viewpoint a logical extension of his life experience to date?
Is there any evidence that Ali ever carried out any of the things he espoused to?
No I do not. Racist is racist. conditions during the 60's? Who outside of Klan groups was advocating the things he did? Lynching, etc. The fact that he agreed with the Klan on things should be enough to at least put them on the same plane. How is his viewpoint logical to his life experience? I get that folks want to feel bad for the guy, I just don't get why they make stuff up and shove other things under the rug to make him into someone he was not.
Can you then define the word 'racist'?
EDIT: You didn't answer the third question from my post. I agree a "racist is a racist". No such think as "reverse racism", etc. in my mind.
I would say Ali was "notable." "Complex." "Formidable."
On the one hand, incredible achievements in the ring, and a philanthropist with a chartable series of apparent moral highs.
On the other, he punched people in the face for a living. He also ripped through four wives, 9 kids (2 out of wedlock), he chronically stepped out on the old lady, he was a deadbeat dad, a draft-dodger, a racist and more.
The maudlin reaction to his death is as bizarre as it is predictable: none of us talked about the guy but for a casual conversation every 18 months, and suddenly we're sobbing and tearing our clothes, wondering how we can possibly soldier on without him.
I don't need anyone else to feel the way I do. Maybe you latch more onto the one hand above, or the other. I don't feel he was quite as noble or important as I'm suddenly hearing, but I suppose that is predictable when one of the sporting greats' candles burns out.
On the one hand, incredible achievements in the ring, and a philanthropist with a chartable series of apparent moral highs.
On the other, he punched people in the face for a living. He also ripped through four wives, 9 kids (2 out of wedlock), he chronically stepped out on the old lady, he was a deadbeat dad, a draft-dodger, a racist and more.
The maudlin reaction to his death is as bizarre as it is predictable: none of us talked about the guy but for a casual conversation every 18 months, and suddenly we're sobbing and tearing our clothes, wondering how we can possibly soldier on without him.
I don't need anyone else to feel the way I do. Maybe you latch more onto the one hand above, or the other. I don't feel he was quite as noble or important as I'm suddenly hearing, but I suppose that is predictable when one of the sporting greats' candles burns out.
