OT: Russel Wilson gone to Broncos, will Minshew get a look here...?
- Thread starter ttowncoug
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minshew does seem like a guy that would be a great fit with PC, but for all the reasons discussed previously on this board, GM doesn't get a sniff.
Anyway, the Hawks get Drew Lock - all their problems are solved!
Anyway, the Hawks get Drew Lock - all their problems are solved!
The Seahawks simply don't usually make A-grade decisions. Occasionally they luck out; I think of Pete Carroll as a decision they made where they lucked out. However, they make lots of really bad decisions. Repetitively poor judgement. I give them AT BEST 25-30% odds of getting the next QB decision right. And the same for the next one. But 3 choices in a row at 25-30% is likely to get them one guy who works out...over maybe a 5-6 year period. Then, that QB will last for 5-8 years, so that will be a good period for the Seahawks offense. Meanwhile, they will make other bad decisions that will hamper their progress.
They should really spend the money to hire a manager with a competent track record and let him make the decisions.
They should really spend the money to hire a manager with a competent track record and let him make the decisions.
ESPN is saying the Seahawks get quarterback Drew Lock, tight end Noah Fant, defensive lineman Shelby Harris, two first-round picks, two second-round picks and a fifth-round pick to the Seahawks for Wilson and a fourth-round pick.
Not impressed with anything Lock has done so far. There might be some upside with coaching, but he hasn't showed much in his first 3 years and he looks to me like a reasonable backup. He's only under contract for 2022.
Noah Fant is a nice get. Young, seems to have some good hands and might fit well. Looks like he's on the hook for 2 years.
Shelby Harris is OK, but that's about it. And he's almost 31, so probably getting close to the end. He's contracted for 2022 with an option for 2023, which I would expect the Hawks will decline unless he has a monster '22.
They'll clear some money from the roster over the next 2 seasons, which may be what they're really looking for. They didn't come anywhere near a value trade with the players they picked up.
The picks could make this a great trade in the long run, if they can manage them right. I haven't seen it detailed when the picks are, but it had better include Denver's #9 this year. Most projections had Denver taking a QB, obviously that's not where they're looking now. Assuming Seattle is now at #9, they're probably looking QB too. Malik Willis and Matt Corral are both projected to be available, I don't know much about either. Personally, I think there's a ceiling for any Seattle QB until they improve their OL...but the best OL will be gone before then, and the rest are probably a reach at 9. I think they could also safely go DL or DB, but there's limited selections there too. I guess if they saw something they liked at QB in the combine, they could take it at 9, with the understanding that they'll be limited in their first couple years.
Now, what I'd do - because I know you're dying to find out. Teams generally suffer with rookie QBs, because they're rookie QBs. You're not going to put the pieces together for at least 2-3 years, and that's if you've got a solid team around them. If you've got a below average OL and a questionable running game, forget it. You're not going to put it together during the rookie QB's rookie contract...which probably means you're not going to do it with that QB. So address the other needs. You have #9. Trade it and get more picks. Philadelphia has #15, #16, and #19. Offer them #9 in exchange for #15, their 3rd rounder, and Minshew (and be willing to accept their 4th rounder instead). That addresses the short-term QB issue. If they go for it, there are a couple of DL options at #15, and if he's available I'd take Jordan Davis there.
Not impressed with anything Lock has done so far. There might be some upside with coaching, but he hasn't showed much in his first 3 years and he looks to me like a reasonable backup. He's only under contract for 2022.
Noah Fant is a nice get. Young, seems to have some good hands and might fit well. Looks like he's on the hook for 2 years.
Shelby Harris is OK, but that's about it. And he's almost 31, so probably getting close to the end. He's contracted for 2022 with an option for 2023, which I would expect the Hawks will decline unless he has a monster '22.
They'll clear some money from the roster over the next 2 seasons, which may be what they're really looking for. They didn't come anywhere near a value trade with the players they picked up.
The picks could make this a great trade in the long run, if they can manage them right. I haven't seen it detailed when the picks are, but it had better include Denver's #9 this year. Most projections had Denver taking a QB, obviously that's not where they're looking now. Assuming Seattle is now at #9, they're probably looking QB too. Malik Willis and Matt Corral are both projected to be available, I don't know much about either. Personally, I think there's a ceiling for any Seattle QB until they improve their OL...but the best OL will be gone before then, and the rest are probably a reach at 9. I think they could also safely go DL or DB, but there's limited selections there too. I guess if they saw something they liked at QB in the combine, they could take it at 9, with the understanding that they'll be limited in their first couple years.
Now, what I'd do - because I know you're dying to find out. Teams generally suffer with rookie QBs, because they're rookie QBs. You're not going to put the pieces together for at least 2-3 years, and that's if you've got a solid team around them. If you've got a below average OL and a questionable running game, forget it. You're not going to put it together during the rookie QB's rookie contract...which probably means you're not going to do it with that QB. So address the other needs. You have #9. Trade it and get more picks. Philadelphia has #15, #16, and #19. Offer them #9 in exchange for #15, their 3rd rounder, and Minshew (and be willing to accept their 4th rounder instead). That addresses the short-term QB issue. If they go for it, there are a couple of DL options at #15, and if he's available I'd take Jordan Davis there.
You don't build around a rookie qb without at least a middling run game. I know the Hawks/ Penny improved last year, but given the nature of their OL and Penny being injured, I wouldn't hang my hat on them having a 1000 yard rusher with any of the personnel they currently possess.
Getting a HOF qb has proven to be the ticket to winning a SB, so trading one away is mind boggling to say the least. The only other way to build a team is to be extremely adept at evaluating talent, and though they seemed to excel in the first few years, the JS/ PC duo has done nothing but whiff in the draft for the past 5 or 6 years, at least. Their FA acquisitions leave a lot to be desired as well. I don't feel like the current situation in Seattle is condusive to winning another SB.
That being said, the salary cap is going to have to be raised. Every QB in the top 10 is going to want $40MM now, and teams just can't afford to have a 40-50MM QB and pay any other star on their roster. The current model is unsustainable, so either the cap has to get raised or all the cash grabbing qbs can go to crappy teams who can afford them and lose a bunch of games.
Pick up Minshew. Use enough of the picks to have a good OL. RB's are easy to find today. With that in place you can re-eval your QB situation in 2 years.
Agreed on overpaying QBs. For that cash, they have to be very, very good and to be able to carry the team.
Rodgers has the abilty to be that good. Russell, without wanting to run, isn't the leagues most dangerous passer.
My bet is Carroll loads up the defense.
I also agree Carroll and John got extremely lucky in the Hawks last run. Sherman in the middle round. Wagner in the 2nd. Wilson in the 3rd. Wagner and Wilson might be HOF guys that were overlooked.
Rodgers has the abilty to be that good. Russell, without wanting to run, isn't the leagues most dangerous passer.
My bet is Carroll loads up the defense.
I also agree Carroll and John got extremely lucky in the Hawks last run. Sherman in the middle round. Wagner in the 2nd. Wilson in the 3rd. Wagner and Wilson might be HOF guys that were overlooked.
With the release of Wagner now hitting the news too, I’m doubling down on my earlier statement. Trade #9 to Philly and get Minshew, their 15-16 pick, and a 3rd-4th rounder. Draft a good DL or LB at 15 (and there should be some options). There will be OL and RB options in the 2nd & 3rd rounds, and they may also be able to get some help in free agency.
Minshew may not be an all-pro, but he threw for 3,000 yard behind a Jacksonville line that was worse than seattle’s, and has a career TD:INT ratio of around 3.4:1. He’s good enough to keep the wheels from coming off, and there no reason to waste a 1st round QB on this team.
Minshew may not be an all-pro, but he threw for 3,000 yard behind a Jacksonville line that was worse than seattle’s, and has a career TD:INT ratio of around 3.4:1. He’s good enough to keep the wheels from coming off, and there no reason to waste a 1st round QB on this team.
I think we agree; the rest of the team (O line in particular) needs attention before spending your top pick on a QB. Minshew (or perhaps someone similar) would seem to be the interim step, and if Minshew or other QB can make it permanent, more power to him. Jim Zorn was not heralded but did well, and he was not the only Seahawk to do that.
I swear to Christ if Kayvon "maybe I'll try, maybe I wont" Thibodaux ends up a Seahawk to "replace" BWags.... well, I don't know, but I won't be happy.
I’d like to see what he can do with talent around him and a front office not hellbent on playing their shiny new 1st round qb regardless of talent.
Give the man a fair chance.
Me too, but I don’t think a team with talent on it is going to pursue him. I think his best shot is taking an average team on a playoff run.
I've heard a lot of pundits talk about teams having cooled on him due to his attitude. Guess we'll see.
4.58 40, 27 reps.
Didn't do anything else.
Kayvon Thibodeaux withdraws early from NFL Combine | FOX Sports
Oregon pass rusher Kayvon Thibodeaux, a potential top-five draft pick, has withdrawn early from 2022 NFL Scouting Combine.
www.google.com
In 1990s baseball terms, Russ thinks he is Randy Johnson but really is Mark Langston.
But in trading Langston this time they probably got John Halama back.
Yes. He is going to have to prove that he can do more with less. Which is total bullshit. He has to walk hot coals juggling flaming chainsaws and even when he succeeds he gets 0 credit and has nay sayers.
Im wondering if he has some interest this off season when all the “franchise” qbs are off the board and teams looking at their cap space still need a starter.
Fingers crossed.
Problem is that there aren't that many slots available from year to year, and the number is going to get smaller. There are a couple teams with franchise-type QBs. Several more with entrenched and capable starters, who aren't in the market. At the bottom there are a handful who need a QB, and will probably pick one in the draft. Somewhere between 3-5 teams will probably take one in the first round. Any QB taken in the top half of the 1st is starting that season. Bottom half, they might sit for a while if they're playing behind a proven, capable starter. We saw that in Jacksonville - they said it was a competition, but there was no doubt that the #1 pick was going to start over the 6th rounder. Nobody takes a first round QB, pays them millions, and sits them on the bench. The only exception I can think of is the Packers taking Rogers at 22. But he was playing behind Favre. The Minshew-Lawrence battle was never going to end another way, and when it was over Minshew had to be traded just to avoid any sort of controversy.
Time is also working against him. He's about to be 26, a 4th year player in the last year of a contract, with an 8-14 record as a starter and not many snaps in the last 18 months. Another year and he's probably pigeonholed permanently as a clipboard holder.
I think strategically, Minshew would make sense for the Seahawks as a caretaker while they improve in other positions - particularly OL. There's enough talent on the team that I think GM could prove himself there, and could get Seattle back to the playoffs IF they upgrade the blocking.
From Minshew's perspective, I think I'd be ecstatic to land in Indianapolis. The Carson Wentz experiment probably collapses this year, and the Colts don't have anyone behind him who's shown anything on the field. They're not a bad team overall, but last season the team made Wentz look better than he was. Minshew does the opposite.
Atlanta might be another decent landing spot. The team isn't as good overall, but Matt Ryan might not last another year as a starter.
Really, Philly has little reason to move GM. They're comfortable with him as a backup and spot starter. They have 3 first round picks, so they could solidify other spots and improve their general situation, and keep their fingers crossed that their moves improve the situation for Hurts. In their position, I'm probably OK playing hardball with the Seahawks and trying to keep GM...unless someone that I really like falls to #9.
A big wild card here - and one that probably drops in the next week - is San Francisco. Rumor is they want to dump Jimmy Garoppolo and go to Trey Lance. JG might be very interesting to the Seahawks, Steelers, Bucs, and Falcons (among others). And the Seahawks now have a lot of room under the cap to go get him...although they don't have much draft capital to make it happen. They might be able to afford him, they just might not be able to put together a package that was worth it.
Good points. Most significant for me personally is the question: "why would the Eagles trade Minshew?". They have no overpowering reason to do so this year, so unless somebody really offers them something/someone valuable, why make a change? A lot of teams do not have a back-up with whom they are as comfortable as Philly is with Minshew, so I think somebody has to make a sweet offer in order to get him. Otherwise, I don't see Philly drafting a QB this year.
3 reasons why CouGreat Gardner Minshew should be Seattle Seahawks’ next QB
WITH RUSSELL WILSON traded by the Seattle Seahawks to the Denver Broncos on Tuesday, the Seahawks' Pete Carroll and GM John Schneider can find salvation in The Mustache. Indeed, from all sides, Gardner Minshew as the next QB for the Seahawks makes a ton of sense.
247sports.com
After this Minshew trade falls to materialize; Brand X will recycle and update it by inserting "sign Cougar legend Jeff Tuel"3 reasons why CouGreat Gardner Minshew should be Seattle Seahawks’ next QB
WITH RUSSELL WILSON traded by the Seattle Seahawks to the Denver Broncos on Tuesday, the Seahawks' Pete Carroll and GM John Schneider can find salvation in The Mustache. Indeed, from all sides, Gardner Minshew as the next QB for the Seahawks makes a ton of sense.
Even if they trade GM, I don't think Philly drafts a QB. With their raft of picks (3 in the 1st, 3 in the 5th, 1 each in the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 6th) they should be able to make some improvements on both sides of the ball and try to support Hurts - who they've clearly favored as their apparent QB of the future.
If I'm Philly, that's my approach to the draft. If I really want to go all in on Hurts, I also consider pursuing either Ryan Fitzpatrick or Joe Flacco in free agency. Flacco is probably cheaper, but either one of them should be able to help Hurts with his decision making, and should be able to at least keep the ship afloat if Hurts goes down. Minshew obviously gives more of a long-term upside (and is cheaper) than either of them do, but Minshew is competition, not veteran guidance. If I can get a veteran on a 1-year deal, I'm more willing to part with Minshew in exchange for a 4th rounder, or for the opportunity to move up in round 1.
Also: News is now coming out that the Colts are shipping Carson Wentz to Washington. That does 2 things - creates an available starting job in Indy, and also likely makes Fitzpatrick expendable to Washington. The Colts don't have a lot of draft capital - only 7 picks, and no 1st rounder. They'd no doubt love to get into the Garoppolo conversation, but they probably can't offer San Francisco enough value to get him. If I'm Indy, I'm calling Philly and offering my 5th rounder, but I'm willing to give them my 4th for Minshew. With their 2nd rounder and 2 3rd rounders, they could then take the best available WR/TE/OL. They've also got quite a bit of cap room, so they make some moves in free agency as well.
Im telling you, qb is the worst coached and evaluated position in all of football. I have never seen so many guys asked to do specifically what they are bad at and then cut. Like, wtf are these coaches doing?
Chip Kelly said it best when asked how he chooses what offense to run. “I figure out what my qb does best, then do that.”
GM has been fuc&ed by NFL coaches.
Well…everybody knows that good QBs don’t get drafted past the 3rd round.
