RIP Gene Hackman

[95coug]

Found dead at his home, along with his wife and dog. No foul play suspected.

I’ve occasionally had to check IMDB to see if he was still alive, since he stopped making movies 20 years ago, but he made some good ones. French Connection, Unforgiven, and of course Hoosiers - which is in almost everyone’s top 3 sports movies ever.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Found dead at his home, along with his wife and dog. No foul play suspected.

I’ve occasionally had to check IMDB to see if he was still alive, since he stopped making movies 20 years ago, but he made some good ones. French Connection, Unforgiven, and of course Hoosiers - which is in almost everyone’s top 3 sports movies ever.

My wife was asking me what movies he was in and it was kind of funny (sad?) that the only four that I could think of at the time was French Connection, Superman, Hoosiers and Unforgiven. Once I pulled up his filmography, it's amazing to see all the movies that I had forgotten he was in.

 

[ttowncoug]

Found dead at his home, along with his wife and dog. No foul play suspected.

I’ve occasionally had to check IMDB to see if he was still alive, since he stopped making movies 20 years ago, but he made some good ones. French Connection, Unforgiven, and of course Hoosiers - which is in almost everyone’s top 3 sports movies ever.

Suspect carbon monoxide poisoning is the word. Hard to believe he was 95. Hoosiers was a great movie!

 

[CougInSpain]

He was great in the Replacements as well. Pretty much any movie he was in made the movie that much better because of his "it" factor. The guy was just a natural.

 

[CougInSpain]

Suspect carbon monoxide poisoning is the word. Hard to believe he was 95. Hoosiers was a great movie!

Hmmmmmm, his wife and dog both died as well. I am having a hard time believing this was an accident but stranger things have happened.

 

[SaveFerris]

Hackman was great as the "really good guy" (Hoosiers) and he was great as the "not so good guy" (Unforgiven, Absolute Power). I was "flipping around" my stream and watched "The Conversation" about 3 weeks ago. Hackman was one of the best. RIP

 

[froropmkr72]

I even enjoyed him in The Quick and the Dead.

 

[kougkurt]

Epstein files released

 

[KRUSTYtheCOUG]

Suspect carbon monoxide poisoning is the word. Hard to believe he was 95. Hoosiers was a great movie!

Yus, but the soundtrack sucked. Mandatory one star deduction. 80s riffs for a movie set in the 50s is almost unforgivable. That's all I have to say about that

 

[95coug]

Hmmmmmm, his wife and dog both died as well. I am having a hard time believing this was an accident but stranger things have happened.

But they were reportedly in different parts of the house, and both appeared to have fallen suddenly, with no signs of trauma. Seems like a CO leak would fit, and would be pretty easily confirmed by the ME. Strangest part is that apparently the front door was partially open.

Authorities have called it unusual and are still investigating.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

CO poisoning comes essentially without symptoms. If a furnace with a leaking heat exchanger is running, or a flue vent in an attic is leaking in a place where it can be drawn into the return side of the furnace, you are going to spread CO pretty uniformly throughout the house. That is why even just a single working CO sensor in a house will provide a good level of coverage...especially if it is near the main return grille to the furnace...unlike smoke detectors, which tend to be needed in more than one location to get good coverage. Of course, if you have several smoke detectors that also detect CO, you've got it covered.

The death of the dog makes it pretty clear that it was not drugs/alcohol/etc. I'd give good odds on CO.

 

[Lollapalousa]

“Australia”

 

[95coug]

CO poisoning comes essentially without symptoms. If a furnace with a leaking heat exchanger is running, or a flue vent in an attic is leaking in a place where it can be drawn into the return side of the furnace, you are going to spread CO pretty uniformly throughout the house. That is why even just a single working CO sensor in a house will provide a good level of coverage...especially if it is near the main return grille to the furnace...unlike smoke detectors, which tend to be needed in more than one location to get good coverage. Of course, if you have several smoke detectors that also detect CO, you've got it covered.

The death of the dog makes it pretty clear that it was not drugs/alcohol/etc. I'd give good odds on CO.

CO can also cause unconsciousness/death very quickly - in just a few breaths, if the concentration is high enough. It's plausible that it could cause victims to suddenly fall down. Effects would presumably be worse on the elderly.

Gas company has already said they haven't seen indications of a leak, but if it was a faulty furnace, the gas company might not find it. They're only going to look up to the meter, or maybe to the furnace intake. If the furnace itself is malfunctioning, the issue will only appear when it's operating (obviously) and will be worse when it's under load. Depending on the level of malfunction...that could easily be the culprit.

Not sure if the dog is really an indicator, apparently there were 2 other dogs that were alive. I'm wondering if maybe the dead one ate some of the medication that the wife dropped?

The open door is still a puzzle too.

Edit: Just read a new article that said the dead dog was in a crate. Seems like that makes the CO theory a little more plausible. The other two dogs had access to a doggy door. And, this article said that while the initial reports said no foul play was suspected, authorities have walked that back a bit. They're now saying there are no obvious signs, but they can't rule anything out.

Incidentally, regarding CO detectors - a lot of people use them wrong, with encouragement from the industry. There are lots of plug-in detectors that you can mount in a standard outlet. Problem with those is that the typical outlet is about 18" off the ground. CO is lighter than air, so will tend to collect near the ceiling. Pretty much everyone breathes more than 18" above the floor, including when they're sleeping. So, you're going to be breathing the cloud before it touches the plug-in detectors.

 

[M-I-Coug]

Found dead at his home, along with his wife and dog. No foul play suspected.

I’ve occasionally had to check IMDB to see if he was still alive, since he stopped making movies 20 years ago, but he made some good ones. French Connection, Unforgiven, and of course Hoosiers - which is in almost everyone’s top 3 sports movies ever.

Let's not forget about "The Poseiden Adventure", which was a huge, gigantic blockbuster hit in 1972.

Interesting to know how many regulars on this board actually saw the movie in the theaters, back in the day?

 

[95coug]

Let's not forget about "The Poseiden Adventure", which was a huge, gigantic blockbuster hit in 1972.

Interesting to know who many regulars on this board actually saw the movie in the theaters, back in the day?

Didn't see that one in the theater. Wasn't one of my favorites, but I gained more appreciation for it after the awful Kurt Russell remake.

 

[KRUSTYtheCOUG]

He definitely is one of the best actors of all time. For me DeNiro is tops, but he's probs in the top 3. Could be good guy, could be a bad guy. Could do comedy. Pacino can't do all that.

Also, sign me up for CO poisoning. My current plan is fentynol. But if I don't have a good source..........

CO

 

[Suudy]

He definitely is one of the best actors of all time. For me DeNiro is tops, but he's probs in the top 3. Could be good guy, could be a bad guy. Could do comedy. Pacino can't do all that.

He’s up there, especially of that era. But way behind Michael Caine and Robert Duvall. Duvall, IMO, is the best of that age group. More range and has a more “natural” feel to his acting. Hackman always felt too formal to me. Better for serious roles.

 

[95coug]

He definitely is one of the best actors of all time. For me DeNiro is tops, but he's probs in the top 3. Could be good guy, could be a bad guy. Could do comedy. Pacino can't do all that.

Also, sign me up for CO poisoning. My current plan is fentynol. But if I don't have a good source..........

CO

Fentanyl may invalidate your life insurance. CO can be accidental pretty easily. Gotta do your research though.

Car exhaust will work, but it’s slower and will look suspicious. Plus, there’s too much other crap in exhaust gas so it might just make you sick. if your car has a catalytic converter, don’t even bother. A leaky furnace or fireplace is probably a better bet.

I’m a big fan of the idea to use CO for executions. It’s quick, it’s cheap, it’s pretty readily available, and you don’t have to decon the chamber like they used to with cyanides. And for all the “cruel and unusual” advocates, clean CO is painless. Pump 10-20,000 ppm into a space, and your subject goes nighty-night. Leave him there for 10-12 minutes, and call it a night.

 

[dgibbons]

He’s up there, especially of that era. But way behind Michael Caine and Robert Duvall. Duvall, IMO, is the best of that age group. More range and has a more “natural” feel to his acting. Hackman always felt too formal to me. Better for serious roles.

Duvall is 94 and still kicking.

 

[95coug]

He’s up there, especially of that era. But way behind Michael Caine and Robert Duvall. Duvall, IMO, is the best of that age group. More range and has a more “natural” feel to his acting. Hackman always felt too formal to me. Better for serious roles.

Duvall may be the best ever at the aging cowboy.

Hackman played inner turmoil as well as anyone. His characters always had an edge, and were usually somehow conflicted. And, he barely aged. He looked 50 in 1970, and only looked 60 by 2000.

 

[ATACFD]

Let's not forget about "The Poseiden Adventure", which was a huge, gigantic blockbuster hit in 1972.

Interesting to know who many regulars on this board actually saw the movie in the theaters, back in the day?

I saw it in the theater when it came out. I was 11. yep im old.
Its kind of eerie that just 2 nights ago (tues night) my wife and I rewatched Unforgiven. She asked if Gene was still alive and I said “ yep hes in his mid 90s”. We looked him up snd chatted about all the characters he played in various movies. Now it has come out that its possible that he actually wasn't alive afterall when we were talking about him….

 

[M-I-Coug]

I saw it in the theater when it came out. I was 11. yep im old.
Its kind of eerie that just 2 nights ago (tues night) my wife and I rewatched Unforgiven. She asked if Gene was still alive and I said “ yep hes in his mid 90s”. We looked him up snd chatted about all the characters he played in various movies. Now it has come out that its possible that he actually wasn't alive afterall when we were talking about him….

Yes, I saw it in the theaters. It was a pretty huge movie, back in the day. Sounds like I'm one year older than you. Wow has time flown by. Feel like I'm 45, look like I'm 55....but we are only temporary here. A vapor. Life on earth just flies by. And, yeah, when you're 22, it's a whole different outlook.

 

[95coug]

Did a little research last night, and found that, while there are a lot of variables, mummification can begin within about 3 days of death. Warm and dry conditions cause it more quickly, and apparently it’s not unusual to see it in deaths of unattended elderly people who keep their houses warmer than average.

Piecing things together a bit…94 year old man and a 60+ woman, odds are they kept the house pretty warm. Also know that there was a space heater in the bathroom, which likely confirms the preference for higher heat and also suggests an HVAC system that wasn’t up to the task. At least part of the house was 1950s, remodeled in the early 90s…so the HVAC probably wasn’t new.

Weather in Santa Fe recently has had daytime highs in the 60s to near 70, nighttime lows around freezing.

My speculation is that something in the heating system went bad, and it was pumping out CO. Sometime early to mid last week, as the temperature dropped the system ramped up, trying to keep the house at 78 or 80 degrees and filled the house with CO. Further speculation, since he had his cane, they had gone somewhere and just returned…maybe they’d walked the dogs. That may explain the open door. They walked in and were overwhelmed within a few minutes. The heating shuts down during the day when it warms up, the CO ventilates, and there’s no evidence of an issue in daylight. Heat ramps up again at night and gives the warm, dry conditions for mummification.

Of course, it’s doubtful whether any of this will be officially confirmed…but it’s what’s in my head now.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

He’s up there, especially of that era. But way behind Michael Caine and Robert Duvall. Duvall, IMO, is the best of that age group. More range and has a more “natural” feel to his acting. Hackman always felt too formal to me. Better for serious roles.

One of the articles said that he was known for his ability to portray someone that was "Not a Good Guy". A lot of his characters were a definite shade of grey. A little bit of hero....a fair amount of "not a good guy". Little Bill will always be my favorite role that he played. The perfect blend of righteousness and ego to highlight how humanity really acts on a daily basis.

 

[95coug]

One of the articles said that he was known for his ability to portray someone that was "Not a Good Guy". A lot of his characters were a definite shade of grey. A little bit of hero....a fair amount of "not a good guy". Little Bill will always be my favorite role that he played. The perfect blend of righteousness and ego to highlight how humanity really acts on a daily basis.

Little Bill was a great character, and Unforgiven was a really good movie. I think it’s gotten better as I’ve gotten older and understand the grey areas more.

Hard to believe it’s over 30 years old

 

[Stretch 74]

Duvall may be the best ever at the aging cowboy.

Hackman played inner turmoil as well as anyone. His characters always had an edge, and were usually somehow conflicted. And, he barely aged. He looked 50 in 1970, and only looked 60 by 2000.

I love the smell of napalm in the morning!

Can't believe nobody has mentioned "The Firm" here. (Unless I missed it) It is one of those movies that I try to watch every time I see it in the guide. Hackman was a very nasty guy, but finally did something good at the end.

 

[SaveFerris]

I love the smell of napalm in the morning!

Can't believe nobody has mentioned "The Firm" here. (Unless I missed it) It is one of those movies that I try to watch every time I see it in the guide. Hackman was a very nasty guy, but finally did something good at the end.

Yeah, thought of The Firm as well. I also thought he was really good as a much much worse guy in "Under Suspicion".

As more of the "flawed good guy", of course Hoosier's but thought he was also really good in "Class Action".

 

[95coug]

Yeah, thought of The Firm as well. I also thought he was really good as a much much worse guy in "Under Suspicion".

As more of the "flawed good guy", of course Hoosier's but thought he was also really good in "Class Action".

Crimson Tide
Mississippi Burning
BAT 21
And how about his attempt to be a Polish general in A Bridge Too Far?

 

[95coug]

Apparently both of them were negative for CO. Not sure what the fallback theory would be.

He had a pacemaker, and the last event recorded on it was Feb 17…so it’s now believed that’s when he died.

 

[UberCougars]

bad news source?

X reported “No CO2” first

 

[LeachPack]

He definitely is one of the best actors of all time. For me DeNiro is tops, but he's probs in the top 3. Could be good guy, could be a bad guy. Could do comedy. Pacino can't do all that.

Also, sign me up for CO poisoning. My current plan is fentynol. But if I don't have a good source..........

CO

DeNiro is incredible in the new Netflix show “Zero Hour”

 

[froropmkr72]

He definitely is one of the best actors of all time. For me DeNiro is tops, but he's probs in the top 3. Could be good guy, could be a bad guy. Could do comedy. Pacino can't do all that.

Also, sign me up for CO poisoning. My current plan is fentynol. But if I don't have a good source..........

CO

I remember watching Taxi Driver on HBO and telling my dad that the guy (DeNiro) really scares me and my dad reacted 'that is called really good acting'. All ethe great ones could do that. DeNiro is The Focker movies was funnier than hell.

 

[froropmkr72]

bad news source?

X reported “No CO2” first

So, how did his wife and dog die at the same time?? Thankyou X.

 

[Dave_86]

Apparently both of them were negative for CO. Not sure what the fallback theory would be.

He had a pacemaker, and the last event recorded on it was Feb 17…so it’s now believed that’s when he died.

Sorry, too busy today to post a bunch of links, and stuff, but knowing the reports say little or no CO found in Hackman's blood is totally bogus, IMHO. Those of you who know this stuff better than me, please set me straight.

In the never ending "World According to Dave '86", carbon monoxide (CO) poisoning occurs because a high enough percentage of the hemoglobin sites in the blood are taken over by CO. Normally it is hemoglobin that takes oxygen from the lungs and distributes it around our bodies. Well, the problem with CO is that it binds stronger to the hemoglobin than oxygen does. Like 200 times stronger. So, it takes CO a long time to disconnect from hemoglobin.

So, we die from CO poisoning because what little CO is in the air attaches itself to our hemoglobin, keeping those hemoglobin sites from distributing oxygen to our bodies. Over time the percentage of hemoglobin bound to CO keeps going up, so people (and animals like dogs) essentially suffocate and die from insufficient oxygen.

If you believe that, then... Hackman and his wife were laying around dead for about 9 days before they were discovered. How much time does the hemoglobin need to release all the carbon monoxide to their body's tissue? The half-life is something like 30 minutes to 2 hours. Just because they're dead doesn't mean the CO will now stay stuck to the hemoglobin indefinitely. I'm no expert on this, but I have to think that in a couple of days after they died all the carbon monoxide had separated itself from the hemoglobin and was absorbed by the tissue of their bodies.

So, there was no carbon monoxide in Hackman and his wife blood when they were discovered.

I believe they dies from carbon monoxide poisoning.

 

[Dave_86]

Incidentally, regarding CO detectors - a lot of people use them wrong, with encouragement from the industry. There are lots of plug-in detectors that you can mount in a standard outlet. Problem with those is that the typical outlet is about 18" off the ground. CO is lighter than air, so will tend to collect near the ceiling. Pretty much everyone breathes more than 18" above the floor, including when they're sleeping. So, you're going to be breathing the cloud before it touches the plug-in detectors.

Great info about CO tending to rise towards the ceiling. Explains why a couple of dogs would survive while Hackman and his wife passed away.

 

[KRUSTYtheCOUG]

I remember watching Taxi Driver on HBO and telling my dad that the guy (DeNiro) really scares me and my dad reacted 'that is called really good acting'. All ethe great ones could do that. DeNiro is The Focker movies was funnier than hell.

Yups, that the thing about DeNiro: he can be pretty scary at times, he can be funny, he can be a good guy and a bad guy. Meryl Streep is the Bob DeNiro of actresses. Taihtsat

 

[95coug]

Sorry, too busy today to post a bunch of links, and stuff, but knowing the reports say little or no CO found in Hackman's blood is totally bogus, IMHO. Those of you who know this stuff better than me, please set me straight.

In the never ending "World According to Dave '86", carbon monoxide (CO) poisoning occurs because a high enough percentage of the hemoglobin sites in the blood are taken over by CO. Normally it is hemoglobin that takes oxygen from the lungs and distributes it around our bodies. Well, the problem with CO is that it binds stronger to the hemoglobin than oxygen does. Like 200 times stronger. So, it takes CO a long time to disconnect from hemoglobin.

So, we die from CO poisoning because what little CO is in the air attaches itself to our hemoglobin, keeping those hemoglobin sites from distributing oxygen to our bodies. Over time the percentage of hemoglobin bound to CO keeps going up, so people (and animals like dogs) essentially suffocate and die from insufficient oxygen.

If you believe that, then... Hackman and his wife were laying around dead for about 9 days before they were discovered. How much time does the hemoglobin need to release all the carbon monoxide to their body's tissue? The half-life is something like 30 minutes to 2 hours. Just because they're dead doesn't mean the CO will now stay stuck to the hemoglobin indefinitely. I'm no expert on this, but I have to think that in a couple of days after they died all the carbon monoxide had separated itself from the hemoglobin and was absorbed by the tissue of their bodies.

So, there was no carbon monoxide in Hackman and his wife blood when they were discovered.

I believe they dies from carbon monoxide poisoning.

True that CO binds to hemoglobin much more tightly than oxygen does. In fresh air at normal respiration, a healthy body will purge half of it in 5-6 hours. In 100% oxygen or in hyperbaric treatments, it’ll get out faster.

Problem is that the body doesn’t use it, so the only way it gets out is through respiration. If the victim dies, the CO stays in the body. Depending on how much was taken in, it turns tissues bright red. It becomes visible in the lips and nail beds, and other places where skin is thin. It’s also apparently quite visible in tissues on autopsy.

The whole situation seems to suggest an asphyxiant that worked quickly, so CO seemed like a good candidate, but if the ME is saying there’s no sign of it…then that’s probably not it. Although…maybe we’ll learn something new from this about CO poisoning.

Great info about CO tending to rise towards the ceiling. Explains why a couple of dogs would survive while Hackman and his wife passed away.

I think it’s simpler than that. The dead dog was crated, the other two had a dog door. They went outside, or were already outside.

Raises an interesting point though - the dog in a crate was low to the ground, so maybe the actual culprit was a gas that sinks. Carbon dioxide sinks. It’s also produced by combustion. It’s a risk in places like breweries and wineries who have a lot of fermentation going on, and you can get significant amounts from dry ice. takes much higher levels to be rapidly fatal though. It turns tissues more of a blue, similar to what happens when respiration stops, so wouldn’t be immediately visible. Hydrogen sulfide is also a sinker and asphyxiant. It smells of rotten eggs, but if it was a concentration high enough to cause physical symptoms, it would fatigue your nose in seconds and you’d no longer smell it.

 

[UberCougars]

So, how did his wife and dog die at the same time?? Thankyou X.

I’m not sure but the press conference hosted by 6-8 police officers said no CO2 poisoning in either human. I’d suggest starting with that press conference.