Roberts and Flowers kill this team
- Thread starter CougEd
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I feel that a lot of Williams issues this year is lack of strong guard play, defenses had to respect CJ and Bonton, because they could shoot create and penetrate, unfortunately Flowers and Robert’s don’t scare anyone, so Williams draws all the defense. Yes Bonton drove me nuts at times with the TOs, but Flowers and Robert’s have a limited offense. Williams has had a rough year, and he needs to step it up, but Smith needs to find a upgrade at guard next year, or it won’t get better.
How would one know. They spend 20 seconds dribbling between their legs and trying to create their own shot . I have never seen two guards that are worse passers and don’t look to pass . They have two bigs that run the court extremely well and they walk the ball up .
i almost crapped myself when I saw them get an easy two in transition
That's a (lack of) coaching. There is no offensive system. None. It is appalling to watch. One would think after a while they 'might' get some off ball movement. It's progressively gotten worse.
High school teams run better stuff than what is being rolled out on offense. Hell, fifth grade AAU teams running flex have better flow.
To be honest, I think Flowers is a good player, although he's struggled the last 3 games with his shooting. Who on this team hasn't? A look at the stats shows Flowers with a significantly higher shooting % than Bonton had last year, both in 3-point % and overall FG %. Ike scored more but took about 6 more shots per game. Bonton had more assists but also a lot more turnovers. What Flowers hasn't been able to do is hit some big shots in a close game to pull out a victory, something Bonton did a few times in his career. Nonetheless, I won't lump Flowers with Tyrell Roberts. That's the guy who needs to see his playing time reduced. If he isn't going to shoot well, how does he help this team? His defense is poor and he can't create for other guys. Could Ryan Rapp do worse?
I thought the effort last night was really good. This team just can't shoot. Keep in mind the Cougars were picked to finish 8th this season. They still have a good chance to top that although that doesn't seem to be a very satisfying goal.
Glad Cougar
I thought the effort last night was really good. This team just can't shoot. Keep in mind the Cougars were picked to finish 8th this season. They still have a good chance to top that although that doesn't seem to be a very satisfying goal.
Glad Cougar
You've made it abundantly clear that you don't care for Smith. Fair enough. But from my perspective, he's light years ahead of Bone & Kent in both recruiting and coaching.
Glad Cougar
Flowers is a really good player. He's stuck in a system that does nothing to free him up - either off the dribble or off ball.
Pissed off right now. When George Raveling's offense looks genius compared to the one dribble/four stand around crap that is being passed off as Kyle Smith's 'system', there's a problem.
Pissed off right now. When George Raveling's offense looks genius compared to the one dribble/four stand around crap that is being passed off as Kyle Smith's 'system', there's a problem.
Recruiting yes.
Coaching, no. Especially on offense Bone was light years ahead.
Ernie is an awful comparison. He was horrible. Better than Ernie is hardly an accomplishment.
Glad...the problem with both Roberts and Flowers is the level which they came from. They can play in the Pac 12, but at their previous level they had to create, they had to take a team 1 on 5. They have athletic bigs. They have others who are willing to take it to the rack, but they act live they are Curly Neal of Harlem Globetrotters of the pass and have to dribble around. They make the offense stagnant
If you solely focus on the offensive end between Flowers and Bonton in full games and the season, Flowers wins in a landslide. Flowers is a much more efficient player, decision maker, shooter, and overall scorer. We miss Bonton's defense and in late game situations where we needed someone to make a play. Bonton had a knack for making a contested 3 or a difficult shot or pass off of penetration. Last night there were a couple open 3s we really needed Flowers to knock down and he missed both.
It's a difficult comparison because they are almost the antithesis of each other. Bonton over Roberts? I think overall that would be a good swap. I didn't see a lot of USF games when they had Frankie Ferrari, but it doesn't seem like Smith has found that type of guard that can really make it all go quite yet.
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This is what I don’t get as well. They play solid defense. Get a rebound and get TF out in transition! A half dozen more fast breaks would do wonders for their offensive efficiency, and if they looked to run more it would create challenges for the defense in the half court having to quickly regroup. When I watch this team, this is the most glaring coaching issue I see.
I don't complain much about our hoops team, because it is way ahead of where it has been since the Bennetts. I also enjoy watching a team that works hard, plays defense and blocks out for rebounds.
The perimeter D is significantly improved over last year. Most of the defensive side is better. Our turnovers are less. Our FT shooting is off and on, but overall I suspect it is a bit better. I'm not going to pick on the shooting %, because obviously they would all like to be shooting better.
My one gripe is that the guards don't follow their shot for at least 2 or 3 steps, or until they know where the ball is going. Sure, that lets them get back quicker to stop the other team's fast break. And that has value. But I quit counting during the last game at 5 easy rebounds from a carom that came right back to the shooter and bounced on the floor because there was no one (O or D) near it when it landed. That was almost half way through the second half; so at that point we had given up 5 possessions because we didn't follow our outside shot. Not sure what the trade off would have been for those 5 possessions against getting back on D to stop a potential fast break, but the old school basketball player in me hates to see so few people following their shot. I'm probably a fossil when it comes to modern basketball, so maybe I am completely wrong, but that is how it feels.
The perimeter D is significantly improved over last year. Most of the defensive side is better. Our turnovers are less. Our FT shooting is off and on, but overall I suspect it is a bit better. I'm not going to pick on the shooting %, because obviously they would all like to be shooting better.
My one gripe is that the guards don't follow their shot for at least 2 or 3 steps, or until they know where the ball is going. Sure, that lets them get back quicker to stop the other team's fast break. And that has value. But I quit counting during the last game at 5 easy rebounds from a carom that came right back to the shooter and bounced on the floor because there was no one (O or D) near it when it landed. That was almost half way through the second half; so at that point we had given up 5 possessions because we didn't follow our outside shot. Not sure what the trade off would have been for those 5 possessions against getting back on D to stop a potential fast break, but the old school basketball player in me hates to see so few people following their shot. I'm probably a fossil when it comes to modern basketball, so maybe I am completely wrong, but that is how it feels.
Actually like the guy.
But the hype of fans and especially the SBNation writers is almost as bad it is for Jerry Dipoto. (And unlike Dipoto who is an egomaniac behind the scenes, Smith seems to be a nice guy)
Throw some tech jargon out there for the poorly paid unappreciated SBNation writers, be accessible to media and deflect when failure comes your way.
Flowers and Roberts are like Dipoto's acquisition of Dee Gordon. Great back story (Flowers and Gordon) but skill set and ability not really suited for the team they joined.
The team seems to lack discipline which goes back to coaching.
Here is a sample of my curiosities:
1. On a fast break, when you have the "numbers" do you a) take it to the glass, or b) try a pull up 3?
I would think its always A. But with this team, I think they want to go with B.
Smart?
2. When you get an offensive rebound, do you a) try and put it up for a 2, or b) kick it out for a 3 point attempt?
I think we go for B.
Overall, I think Smith's system requires you to score a lot of points. They don't seem to be interested in chewing up clock (IE Bennett Ball), but they do seem interested in run and gun. If it works (IE Colorado), they can bury teams. If it doesn't, they can lose games they should win (IE ASU).
Here is a sample of my curiosities:
1. On a fast break, when you have the "numbers" do you a) take it to the glass, or b) try a pull up 3?
I would think its always A. But with this team, I think they want to go with B.
Smart?
2. When you get an offensive rebound, do you a) try and put it up for a 2, or b) kick it out for a 3 point attempt?
I think we go for B.
Overall, I think Smith's system requires you to score a lot of points. They don't seem to be interested in chewing up clock (IE Bennett Ball), but they do seem interested in run and gun. If it works (IE Colorado), they can bury teams. If it doesn't, they can lose games they should win (IE ASU).
Basketball is really simple - rebound, defend, share the ball.
They only do two of the three.
Cougs will be really good once the coaches put in some semblance of an offensive system that values passing the ball.
Yes, I would certainly welcome more passing and less dribbling. It always seems to make the other team have to work harder and the ball gets to an open man much quicker. That was a huge part of Bennett Ball success.
Glad Cougar
Not when you finish like this squad does. Only Efe should go for the glass.
Actually I disagree here. This guys nearly always try (and rarely make (a). I would actually add (c) kick it out to restart the set.
You have to be kidding me. Rav's offense was IMHO ahead of anyone who has coached at WSU since to include both Bennett's.
The “wheel”? He had Ehlo Williams and he slowed them down. Look at mark Radford ,Ray Bloom etc at Oregon state. The best fast break team I think I may have ever seen . Ball didn’t hit the ground . WSU would be wise to look at that and look at Arizona this year .
It would seem to be such a waste to have to guys as athletic as efe and Gaye abs not to run them . What a shame
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