Sgt Schultz making it a legal case

[dgibbons]

Give me a break. None of the guys arrested this year were in a situation where they were being attacked. Luani was jawing with some punk in a bandanna and there was no threat of violence until he threw a punch. The vast majority of evidence from the party suggests that the football players were the instigators. Tago and some dudes stole beer from someone after beating them up. They all could have walked away but they chose to prove their manhood. Hell, I understand that they aren't alone in that, but it doesn't make it right.

It's bizarre that all of the sudden, there's a problem. Barber threatens a cop last year and we don't even hear anything about it but those same cops and prosectors are now racist a-holes with an agenda? It's total crap to suggest that every time a football player walks into a party, he gets attacked by frat guys. If that wasn't anything but made up bull crap, we would have heard about it long before you guys made it up as an excuse.

I get the frustration with the SCB, but again, dumbass players acting like fools and hitting people when they didn't need to is what got us here. They didn't need to get into any of those fights. Stupid assholes that act like that fall in line with the fool from Oklahoma that wanted me to meet him at a local convenience store after I made an insulting comment about the Sooners. In your narrow minded world, I should have went down and kicked his ass because he disrespected me and threatened me.

And again, even Robert Barber knows he screwed up, he just wanted to delay the suspension so he could play football. He didn't initially ask for the suspension to be waived, he just wanted it to be delayed until spring. WSU circumvented his desire to get back on the field by giving him his degree. Was it shitty? Sure, but it was done to prove that people like the folks on this board are really only concerned about football.

The evidence indicates that when the chaos started, they were the biggest and strongest guys there.

And a simple reminder for you. Barber was arrested because he popped off to a cop. He was never charged with any crime. Sounds familiar.

Delaying the suspension was the last request in the appeals process he could make short of going to court. That's why he did it.

 

[MRICoug]

Give me a break. None of the guys arrested this year were in a situation where they were being attacked. Luani was jawing with some punk in a bandanna and there was no threat of violence until he threw a punch. The vast majority of evidence from the party suggests that the football players were the instigators. Tago and some dudes stole beer from someone after beating them up. They all could have walked away but they chose to prove their manhood. Hell, I understand that they aren't alone in that, but it doesn't make it right.

It's bizarre that all of the sudden, there's a problem. Barber threatens a cop last year and we don't even hear anything about it but those same cops and prosectors are now racist a-holes with an agenda? It's total crap to suggest that every time a football player walks into a party, he gets attacked by frat guys. If that wasn't anything but made up bull crap, we would have heard about it long before you guys made it up as an excuse.

I get the frustration with the SCB, but again, dumbass players acting like fools and hitting people when they didn't need to is what got us here. They didn't need to get into any of those fights. Stupid assholes that act like that fall in line with the fool from Oklahoma that wanted me to meet him at a local convenience store after I made an insulting comment about the Sooners. In your narrow minded world, I should have went down and kicked his ass because he disrespected me and threatened me.

And again, even Robert Barber knows he screwed up, he just wanted to delay the suspension so he could play football. He didn't initially ask for the suspension to be waived, he just wanted it to be delayed until spring. WSU circumvented his desire to get back on the field by giving him his degree. Was it shitty? Sure, but it was done to prove that people like the folks on this board are really only concerned about football.

Much of this is simply not true. If you really do not understand the perspective that Marks brought to the table (and it seems like you do not), it may be somewhat outside of what your daily life would be. I can tell you that these situations happen often. Whether it is an athlete on campus, or the biggest guy in the bar...you are a target. I have been out playing pool and ended up in fights because some guys simply want to pick a fight with a bigger guy to prove themselves in their clique. This is not really new, but seems to be more prevalent now. You add on top of that the knowledge that the guys whole career (scholarship) is at risk and yours is not....it exacerbates the situation greatly.

 

[CPtheCoug]

Much of this is simply not true. If you really do not understand the perspective that Marks brought to the table (and it seems like you do not), it may be somewhat outside of what your daily life would be. I can tell you that these situations happen often. Whether it is an athlete on campus, or the biggest guy in the bar...you are a target. I have been out playing pool and ended up in fights because some guys simply want to pick a fight with a bigger guy to prove themselves in their clique. This is not really new, but seems to be more prevalent now. You add on top of that the knowledge that the guys whole career (scholarship) is at risk and yours is not....it exacerbates the situation greatly.

Agreed.

Happens alot. Happens on this board too... digitally...

People just don't know when to shut up OR people are just looking for a fight.

 

[SCglory]

Give the man a cigar. If Robert Barber had not been a football player but only another nerdish kid in the engineering department, we would have never heard of this. Maybe Robert's travails will be the silver lining in this cloud by directing attention on our troublesome SCB.

But...but...most of the other schools do it this way. Do they? If so, shame on them too. Sounds like me when I was a kid. "But, Mom, Gary's mother lets him do it and so does Larry's!!" Didn't work. A childish and silly whine by me and no better when applied to more important issues by adults.

It is impossible to gather information about this affair. About time I think I have it figured out, another alleged fact contradicts what I thought I knew. One thing I do know it that no one on this board or on brand x has posted that it sucks for Barber but at least he got a fair hearing and justice was administered. No one.

"It is consistent with other SCBs" doesn't cut it for me. Nor does the argument that this is what the regulations dictate. That is the only argument in support of the current SCB and it is a flimsy one at best. Change the damn regulations.

The current SCB is poorly constituted and that needs to be addressed by the BOR. Fairness should be applied to all regardless of their status as an athlete or an Ag student or otherwise.

Well....If Barber had been a "nerdish kid in the engineering department" he wouldn't have hit the guy and wouldn't have given him a concussion either. You can't have it both ways....giving Barber another identity then--presto--putting him into a convenient position to make your story come out the way you want it to. Like it or not, football players are more aggressive than engineering students, and we as a society have encouraged that since they first strapped on the gear. They are also stronger and larger than the average. It can be a bad combination.

N.B. I am not commenting on the merits of WSU's board or procedures

 

[SCglory]

Much of this is simply not true. If you really do not understand the perspective that Marks brought to the table (and it seems like you do not), it may be somewhat outside of what your daily life would be. I can tell you that these situations happen often. Whether it is an athlete on campus, or the biggest guy in the bar...you are a target. I have been out playing pool and ended up in fights because some guys simply want to pick a fight with a bigger guy to prove themselves in their clique. This is not really new, but seems to be more prevalent now. You add on top of that the knowledge that the guys whole career (scholarship) is at risk and yours is not....it exacerbates the situation greatly.

?? Well, it's clear that people here apparently believe that all big guys are Hoss Cartwright....the larger they are the gentler. At the end of the day, it may end up that these cases will simply be referred right out of the students' hands to the faculty's.

 

[WASH ST A&M FAN]

As I said earlier on this board in August (maybe?).

This Flatland is New to sports. Gung-Ho for sure, but lacks personal experience & longtime knowledge & objectivity.

Also, I noticed that Good Ol CougEd is back when times are rough. He was M.I.A. for much of the last 6 game stretch.

Go Cougs
Gig'em Aggies

 

[Flatlandcoug]

As I said earlier on this board in August (maybe?).

This Flatland is New to sports. Gung-Ho for sure, but lacks personal experience & longtime knowledge & objectivity.

Also, I noticed that Good Ol CougEd is back when times are rough. He was M.I.A. for much of the last 6 game stretch.

Go Cougs
Gig'em Aggies

New to sports? Whatever. I was roommates with one of the guys from the basketball team at one point in time when I was in school and one of the running backs was my next door neighbor when I was a freshman in the dorm so I lived around those guys when I was in college. By the way, that was around 25 years ago so I have a lifetime of seeing insecure dickheads insist that they have something to prove and see most of them grow out of it at some point in time.

Back to the players, there was never any problems with them getting messed with. Maybe times have changed, but in general, I'm betting that they haven't changed that much. Torey Hunter used to hang out at one of the bars I used to frequent back in the day. If you ever wanted to meet a cocky a-hole that would have gotten into fights if people were looking, he was the guy. Fun to hang around but dude never stopped talking smack. Other players were there and I don't remember ever seeing a fight.

I love the fact that you guys are willing to make up crap about everyone else but when video evidence shows a player doing something wrong.....it's still someone else's fault. I feel bad for Barber and I'm sure that he's not a terrible person but people make mistakes all the time and they have to pay the penalty.

 

[Coug1990]

Well....If Barber had been a "nerdish kid in the engineering department" he wouldn't have hit the guy and wouldn't have given him a concussion either. You can't have it both ways....giving Barber another identity then--presto--putting him into a convenient position to make your story come out the way you want it to. Like it or not, football players are more aggressive than engineering students, and we as a society have encouraged that since they first strapped on the gear. They are also stronger and larger than the average. It can be a bad combination.

N.B. I am not commenting on the merits of WSU's board or procedures

This post is nonsense. Where are you finding your statistics?

 

[Coug1990]

Or Robert Barber is an ill-tempered bully, cheap shot artist, who is running WSU's name unfairly through the mud, selfishly. 100 years of integrity at the highest level, the school that spearheaded Title IX reforms or WSU is essentially George Wallace's University of Alabama and we all should be embarrassed to have matriculated from there. You make the call.


I'm not buy we are 1960's Alabama. First, this is the first time I've ever heard of alleged problems with WSU's disciplinary system. Over the last 40 years we have had a ton of blacks, polys, foreigners, men, women, athletes, bookworms, partiers, stoners, gays, you name it, attend WSU. Now, suddenly, it is, and has been, a kangaroo court, an anti-men, anti-polys, anti-athlete institution. Honestly? Second, our system mirrors 11 of 12 Pac-12 schools. (Trigger WARNING) Jesus, Cal students don't even have a problem with the system for crying out loud. Stanford students aren't claiming they are oppressed too. No student body is jumping on board or supporting this crusade for “justice.” Despite that, we are supposed to believe the disciplinary system deprives student athletes of "due process."


No, we have a kid who wants to play football, and appears willing to play any and every card in the card deck. It is one thing to put football, first, but don't throw reality out the window. Attorneys are charged with zealously representing their client's interests. Interest groups are biased by definition. They aren’t in the business of getting to or representing the truth. They are in the business of getting their way.

Yes, it has been a problem. Just because you did not personally hear about it did not mean that it did not exist before. Dr. Floyd had planned to do something about this before he fell sick.

 

[Coug1990]

Graham Spanier, Kenneth Starr and I had a good laugh at this post.

But seriously, I never have sympathy for anyone who makes half a million or more a year. They get paid to be decisive leaders, and Schulz ain't showing much on this one. The 54 page response to the legal filing is BS. WSU should have said nothing - let the court be the good or bad guy. They say no? They are the bad guy. They suspend the suspension? Barber plays, graduates in a month and the whole problem kind of goes away. But no, let's throw a can on gas on this thing, Schulz. Good move.

Now that the parents of players (the two most visible are moms of white players, if it means anything) are rallying behind Barber, I have even more empathy for him. And Jack Thompson would not put his name and reputation on the line for some thug. I signed the CougFam petition online, hope others here did as well.

I signed it as well.

 

[Coug1990]

Give me a break. None of the guys arrested this year were in a situation where they were being attacked. Luani was jawing with some punk in a bandanna and there was no threat of violence until he threw a punch. The vast majority of evidence from the party suggests that the football players were the instigators. Tago and some dudes stole beer from someone after beating them up. They all could have walked away but they chose to prove their manhood. Hell, I understand that they aren't alone in that, but it doesn't make it right.

It's bizarre that all of the sudden, there's a problem. Barber threatens a cop last year and we don't even hear anything about it but those same cops and prosectors are now racist a-holes with an agenda? It's total crap to suggest that every time a football player walks into a party, he gets attacked by frat guys. If that wasn't anything but made up bull crap, we would have heard about it long before you guys made it up as an excuse.

I get the frustration with the SCB, but again, dumbass players acting like fools and hitting people when they didn't need to is what got us here. They didn't need to get into any of those fights. Stupid assholes that act like that fall in line with the fool from Oklahoma that wanted me to meet him at a local convenience store after I made an insulting comment about the Sooners. In your narrow minded world, I should have went down and kicked his ass because he disrespected me and threatened me.

And again, even Robert Barber knows he screwed up, he just wanted to delay the suspension so he could play football. He didn't initially ask for the suspension to be waived, he just wanted it to be delayed until spring. WSU circumvented his desire to get back on the field by giving him his degree. Was it shitty? Sure, but it was done to prove that people like the folks on this board are really only concerned about football.

Where do you get your information? The vast majority of evidence does not suggest that football players were the instigators. This is one of the reason why you are continually wrong on your take on things.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Where do you get your information? The vast majority of evidence does not suggest that football players were the instigators. This is one of the reason why you are continually wrong on your take on things.

There have been a number of articles on the fight from many different perspectives. Here's one with the guy who had his jaw broken: LINK

I have a friend on Facebook that's a current student. In the days after the fight, there was a conversation on there about the fight. One of the people who commented on the thread said, "There were over 100 people there, we all saw who was lighting off the fireworks and many of us chose to leave because we could see how things would escalate." The overall gist of the thread was that they expected the football players to get away without punishment, despite there being dozens of witnesses, because there wasn't going to be any way to prove that the players were involved.

Not long after that, the video of the fight (LINK) showed Barber blasting someone with a huge haymaker, which is undoubtedly one of the reasons that he was singled out. You act like I'm just making stuff up on the fly, but the reality is that most of you are contriving conspiracies in some Quixotic attempt to get Robert Barber back on the field. There is absolutely zero doubt that Barber violated the student code of conduct with his involvement in the fight. The only real issue is the appropriate punishment with a side complaint about not enough other people getting punished.

I believe that it is going to be hard for a judge to say that Barber shouldn't be suspended because the university didn't feel that they had enough evidence to suspend other people. In the Facebook thread that I mentioned in the paragraph above, the sentiment was that football players had immunity in the community, as opposed to the umbrella of terror that you guys believe exists. As mentioned elsewhere, part of the reason for this thinking was that Barber had previously gone unpunished after threatening a police officer. In other parts of the country, a man of color insulting a cop often ends up dead. In Pullman, he gets a stern lecture, yet you guys continue to insist that the system is rigged against guys like Barber and they can't get a fair shake.

The Student Conduct Board obviously needs to be reviewed and overhauled but it's going to be hard for Barber to prove that he was a victim that got treated poorly by the university and should be cleared to play immediately.

 

[MRICoug]

There have been a number of articles on the fight from many different perspectives. Here's one with the guy who had his jaw broken: LINK

I have a friend on Facebook that's a current student. In the days after the fight, there was a conversation on there about the fight. One of the people who commented on the thread said, "There were over 100 people there, we all saw who was lighting off the fireworks and many of us chose to leave because we could see how things would escalate." The overall gist of the thread was that they expected the football players to get away without punishment, despite there being dozens of witnesses, because there wasn't going to be any way to prove that the players were involved.

Not long after that, the video of the fight (LINK) showed Barber blasting someone with a huge haymaker, which is undoubtedly one of the reasons that he was singled out. You act like I'm just making stuff up on the fly, but the reality is that most of you are contriving conspiracies in some Quixotic attempt to get Robert Barber back on the field. There is absolutely zero doubt that Barber violated the student code of conduct with his involvement in the fight. The only real issue is the appropriate punishment with a side complaint about not enough other people getting punished.

I believe that it is going to be hard for a judge to say that Barber shouldn't be suspended because the university didn't feel that they had enough evidence to suspend other people. In the Facebook thread that I mentioned in the paragraph above, the sentiment was that football players had immunity in the community, as opposed to the umbrella of terror that you guys believe exists. As mentioned elsewhere, part of the reason for this thinking was that Barber had previously gone unpunished after threatening a police officer. In other parts of the country, a man of color insulting a cop often ends up dead. In Pullman, he gets a stern lecture, yet you guys continue to insist that the system is rigged against guys like Barber and they can't get a fair shake.

The Student Conduct Board obviously needs to be reviewed and overhauled but it's going to be hard for Barber to prove that he was a victim that got treated poorly by the university and should be cleared to play immediately.

It seems like you are only picking initial impressions, and have yet to look at anything that has been reported about other factors. This is the same issue I have with the video. It seems pretty damning at face value, but there is no context there. We have zero clue what happened leading up to that, and many conflicting stories as to who was throwing what as well as the guy snorting white powder (A victim of the incident reportedly) instigating issues with players and others at the party. You evidence is a Facebook thread and an overblown initial reaction story. I would say that a judge could indeed interpret that the SCB having destroyed the testimony used to sen RB packing, as well as not allowing him or his representative the opportunity to question others added to the lack of gaining any potential positive witness accounts can be determined to have been overstepping. I am not advocating that FB players or other athletes should not be held accountable, but in this situation the whole thing stinks. Similar to the Luani situation. He was tried and convicted with limited information, but then it was found to be a self defense issue in the end. You still believe Luani was in the wrong in that too though correct?

 

[YakiCoug]

It is reactionary. They are doing something to alleviate criticisms of harming the young man's future when it comes to his degree. As far as a student getting into a fight at a Halloween party......whatever. This stupid, macho bullcrap where you guys think that you have the right to punch anyone who disrespects you is the exact frickin' reason that Barber is in trouble. Either him or the idiot hosts of that party felt that they had something to prove and things got out of control. If you punch someone at a Halloween party, you deserve whatever happens to you. When you figure that out, it will prove that you are a grown up.

By the way, it is so stupid to assume that Schulz is the only person involved in this. Do you really think that the board of regents would sit up there with him if they weren't involved? Talk about opening your eyes.

I would have preferred that the SCB and the university had decided that a 2-3 game suspension was appropriate punishment for Barber and that he be allowed to play for the finish of his career. I don't have a problem with them sticking to their guns. Don't get in fights and you don't get in trouble. It's really that easy.

As I said earlier on this board in August (maybe?).

This Flatland is New to sports. Gung-Ho for sure, but lacks personal experience & longtime knowledge & objectivity.

Also, I noticed that Good Ol CougEd is back when times are rough. He was M.I.A. for much of the last 6 game stretch.

Go Cougs
Gig'em Aggies

Exactly. El Presidente of the Little Dick Baird Club is having quite a Ball over this.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

It seems like you are only picking initial impressions, and have yet to look at anything that has been reported about other factors. This is the same issue I have with the video. It seems pretty damning at face value, but there is no context there. We have zero clue what happened leading up to that, and many conflicting stories as to who was throwing what as well as the guy snorting white powder (A victim of the incident reportedly) instigating issues with players and others at the party. You evidence is a Facebook thread and an overblown initial reaction story. I would say that a judge could indeed interpret that the SCB having destroyed the testimony used to sen RB packing, as well as not allowing him or his representative the opportunity to question others added to the lack of gaining any potential positive witness accounts can be determined to have been overstepping. I am not advocating that FB players or other athletes should not be held accountable, but in this situation the whole thing stinks. Similar to the Luani situation. He was tried and convicted with limited information, but then it was found to be a self defense issue in the end. You still believe Luani was in the wrong in that too though correct?

FWIW, I still think that Luani was 100% in the wrong for hitting bandanna boy. In his case, there were several mitigating factors when it comes to charging him with a crime. 1) There was video evidence of bandanna boy and others grabbing onto him prior to him doing anything. Barber doesn't have the benefit of that. 2) Even though he sucker punched bandanna boy, it wasn't the same level of attack that Barber laid onto his opponent. If Luani had given bandanna boy a right hook and then punched him on the ground, I believe that he would have been charged. He didn't do that. 3) Luani got his ass kicked by four guys afterwards and at least could argue that he was a victim to some degree. 4) Luani missed a game, even if Leach regretted it after the fact. All of those make it pretty easy to agree with no further punishment for Luani.

As for Barber, if it comes up that he can produce evidence that gets his situation changed, good for him. As it is, there's no proof that the powder was anything but caffeine pills. Maybe stupid to snort, but not illegal. There are differing eyewitness accounts of how the fight started. The evidence after the fight is some injured guys and a video of Barber doing it. Regardless of all the bullcrap macho talk here, Barber wasn't obligated to hit the guy. Until the university changes its stance, I'm choosing to support my university over some guy who couldn't control his emotions on a hot July night.

Our football players talk about being treated differently and struggling with it. I can tell you that based on working for four years with a guy who walked on at Iowa State before earning a scholarship, the vast majority of football players don't respect the opportunity that they have and walk through life expecting special treatment. If you ask him, most of the guys on the team are a bunch of fools that are lucky to avoid trouble. He was immersed in it for four years and came away with zero respect for his fellow scholarship athletes. I think his viewpoint is harsh, but it's another viewpoint. As I mentioned in another post that I lived next door to a football player and used to drink at the bar that Torey Hunter used to drink at. The football player in the dorm was actually a cool guy but ended up dropping off the team after his sophomore year because he knew he wasn't going to ever be a starter. He's an example of a player who didn't cause trouble. Torey Hunter was an example of a guy who invited trouble constantly and talked crap all the time. The thing is, he was tough enough to whip most people but small enough that a bigger guy would have been viewed as an asshole for fighting him. One night, a super hot blonde chick came over and started to talk to me. I thought, "That's right, flatland has got it going on!". Turned out, Anthony McClanahan had been hitting on her so she came to hang out with me because I didn't look like a troll but also looked fairly harmless. Ego crushed. Mr. McClanahan came over while I was talking to her and made it clear to me that it would be in my best interest to get the frack out of the way so he could talk to the lady. I was some insignificant bug in between him and a piece of ass. To his credit, when I let him know that I was fine with staying, he just moved on to the next chick. He's proof that football players can be arrogant assholes but not necessarily physically abusive arrogant assholes. So when you talk about lack of perspective on my part, it reflects your ignorance of my perspective.

There is another thread that talks about how Shulz is dead to our fans because he has made a bad first impression, but then you criticize me for judging a video based on first impressions. At the end of the day, you ignore anything I type because you've got your mind made up. Truth is, until the university changes it's position, I have mine made up as well.

 

[MRICoug]

FWIW, I still think that Luani was 100% in the wrong for hitting bandanna boy. In his case, there were several mitigating factors when it comes to charging him with a crime. 1) There was video evidence of bandanna boy and others grabbing onto him prior to him doing anything. Barber doesn't have the benefit of that. 2) Even though he sucker punched bandanna boy, it wasn't the same level of attack that Barber laid onto his opponent. If Luani had given bandanna boy a right hook and then punched him on the ground, I believe that he would have been charged. He didn't do that. 3) Luani got his ass kicked by four guys afterwards and at least could argue that he was a victim to some degree. 4) Luani missed a game, even if Leach regretted it after the fact. All of those make it pretty easy to agree with no further punishment for Luani.

As for Barber, if it comes up that he can produce evidence that gets his situation changed, good for him. As it is, there's no proof that the powder was anything but caffeine pills. Maybe stupid to snort, but not illegal. There are differing eyewitness accounts of how the fight started. The evidence after the fight is some injured guys and a video of Barber doing it. Regardless of all the bullcrap macho talk here, Barber wasn't obligated to hit the guy. Until the university changes its stance, I'm choosing to support my university over some guy who couldn't control his emotions on a hot July night.

Our football players talk about being treated differently and struggling with it. I can tell you that based on working for four years with a guy who walked on at Iowa State before earning a scholarship, the vast majority of football players don't respect the opportunity that they have and walk through life expecting special treatment. If you ask him, most of the guys on the team are a bunch of fools that are lucky to avoid trouble. He was immersed in it for four years and came away with zero respect for his fellow scholarship athletes. I think his viewpoint is harsh, but it's another viewpoint. As I mentioned in another post that I lived next door to a football player and used to drink at the bar that Torey Hunter used to drink at. The football player in the dorm was actually a cool guy but ended up dropping off the team after his sophomore year because he knew he wasn't going to ever be a starter. He's an example of a player who didn't cause trouble. Torey Hunter was an example of a guy who invited trouble constantly and talked crap all the time. The thing is, he was tough enough to whip most people but small enough that a bigger guy would have been viewed as an asshole for fighting him. One night, a super hot blonde chick came over and started to talk to me. I thought, "That's right, flatland has got it going on!". Turned out, Anthony McClanahan had been hitting on her so she came to hang out with me because I didn't look like a troll but also looked fairly harmless. Ego crushed. Mr. McClanahan came over while I was talking to her and made it clear to me that it would be in my best interest to get the frack out of the way so he could talk to the lady. I was some insignificant bug in between him and a piece of ass. To his credit, when I let him know that I was fine with staying, he just moved on to the next chick. He's proof that football players can be arrogant assholes but not necessarily physically abusive arrogant assholes. So when you talk about lack of perspective on my part, it reflects your ignorance of my perspective.

There is another thread that talks about how Shulz is dead to our fans because he has made a bad first impression, but then you criticize me for judging a video based on first impressions. At the end of the day, you ignore anything I type because you've got your mind made up. Truth is, until the university changes it's position, I have mine made up as well.

Cool story. I guess I can see why you still hold a grudge against athletes....or whatever it is your point is.

 

[Coug1990]

It seems like you are only picking initial impressions, and have yet to look at anything that has been reported about other factors. This is the same issue I have with the video. It seems pretty damning at face value, but there is no context there. We have zero clue what happened leading up to that, and many conflicting stories as to who was throwing what as well as the guy snorting white powder (A victim of the incident reportedly) instigating issues with players and others at the party. You evidence is a Facebook thread and an overblown initial reaction story. I would say that a judge could indeed interpret that the SCB having destroyed the testimony used to sen RB packing, as well as not allowing him or his representative the opportunity to question others added to the lack of gaining any potential positive witness accounts can be determined to have been overstepping. I am not advocating that FB players or other athletes should not be held accountable, but in this situation the whole thing stinks. Similar to the Luani situation. He was tried and convicted with limited information, but then it was found to be a self defense issue in the end. You still believe Luani was in the wrong in that too though correct?

Yes, this. There has been a lot of conflicting information. First impression means a lot and unfortunately, the first stories out there were only about football players.

The initial stories were about football players shooting off fireworks and causing trouble. There have also been multiple accounts that have come out that the football players did not have the fireworks.

You mention the person who admitted to snorting a white powder that he says is "crushed up caffeine." It may be true, but he also has a reason to lie.

I also agree with you about the video. It is not nothing, but it does not mean much either. If it had shown that situation from beginning to end, sure. But, it picks up late and we do not know what happened before.

It reminds me of the Leach/Adam James situation. There are many people that still think that Coach Leach locked Adam James up in a closet. Most of us here know that the story was greatly exaggerated and never happened that way. But, again. First impressions mean a lot.

I am not willing to convict or accuse anyone on the "evidence" that we have read second hand.

 

[Coug1990]

FWIW, I still think that Luani was 100% in the wrong for hitting bandanna boy. In his case, there were several mitigating factors when it comes to charging him with a crime. 1) There was video evidence of bandanna boy and others grabbing onto him prior to him doing anything. Barber doesn't have the benefit of that. 2) Even though he sucker punched bandanna boy, it wasn't the same level of attack that Barber laid onto his opponent. If Luani had given bandanna boy a right hook and then punched him on the ground, I believe that he would have been charged. He didn't do that. 3) Luani got his ass kicked by four guys afterwards and at least could argue that he was a victim to some degree. 4) Luani missed a game, even if Leach regretted it after the fact. All of those make it pretty easy to agree with no further punishment for Luani.

As for Barber, if it comes up that he can produce evidence that gets his situation changed, good for him. As it is, there's no proof that the powder was anything but caffeine pills. Maybe stupid to snort, but not illegal. There are differing eyewitness accounts of how the fight started. The evidence after the fight is some injured guys and a video of Barber doing it. Regardless of all the bullcrap macho talk here, Barber wasn't obligated to hit the guy. Until the university changes its stance, I'm choosing to support my university over some guy who couldn't control his emotions on a hot July night.

Our football players talk about being treated differently and struggling with it. I can tell you that based on working for four years with a guy who walked on at Iowa State before earning a scholarship, the vast majority of football players don't respect the opportunity that they have and walk through life expecting special treatment. If you ask him, most of the guys on the team are a bunch of fools that are lucky to avoid trouble. He was immersed in it for four years and came away with zero respect for his fellow scholarship athletes. I think his viewpoint is harsh, but it's another viewpoint. As I mentioned in another post that I lived next door to a football player and used to drink at the bar that Torey Hunter used to drink at. The football player in the dorm was actually a cool guy but ended up dropping off the team after his sophomore year because he knew he wasn't going to ever be a starter. He's an example of a player who didn't cause trouble. Torey Hunter was an example of a guy who invited trouble constantly and talked crap all the time. The thing is, he was tough enough to whip most people but small enough that a bigger guy would have been viewed as an asshole for fighting him. One night, a super hot blonde chick came over and started to talk to me. I thought, "That's right, flatland has got it going on!". Turned out, Anthony McClanahan had been hitting on her so she came to hang out with me because I didn't look like a troll but also looked fairly harmless. Ego crushed. Mr. McClanahan came over while I was talking to her and made it clear to me that it would be in my best interest to get the frack out of the way so he could talk to the lady. I was some insignificant bug in between him and a piece of ass. To his credit, when I let him know that I was fine with staying, he just moved on to the next chick. He's proof that football players can be arrogant assholes but not necessarily physically abusive arrogant assholes. So when you talk about lack of perspective on my part, it reflects your ignorance of my perspective.

There is another thread that talks about how Shulz is dead to our fans because he has made a bad first impression, but then you criticize me for judging a video based on first impressions. At the end of the day, you ignore anything I type because you've got your mind made up. Truth is, until the university changes it's position, I have mine made up as well.

What is a punch to you? Also, anecdotal evidence is weak evidence. I knew many players that were great people, including a roommate that was a walkon football player. I knew people that were not athletes that were complete jerks.

 

[Coug1990]

Cool story. I guess I can see why you still hold a grudge against athletes....or whatever it is your point is.

Flat certainly has an agenda and his view of players is through a distorted lens.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Jesus Christ people. Why don't you just enjoy Cougar football and move along? Of course, if you want to bitch about Barber all week, have at it.

 

[Coug1990]

Jesus Christ people. Why don't you just enjoy Cougar football and move along? Of course, if you want to bitch about Barber all week, have at it.

We will. Thanks for your support. We will enjoy Cougar football like we have all season. We will discuss the Barber situation as well, because it is relevant.

 

[dgibbons]

Jesus Christ people. Why don't you just enjoy Cougar football and move along? Of course, if you want to bitch about Barber all week, have at it.

You first.

 

[YakiCoug]

Cool story. I guess I can see why you still hold a grudge against athletes....or whatever it is your point is.

Years of therapy have failed to erase the memory of Anthony McClanahan's glare from Flat's head. PTSD at its finest.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Years of therapy have failed to erase the memory of Anthony McClanahan's glare from Flat's head. PTSD at its finest.

 

[SCglory]

This post is nonsense. Where are you finding your statistics?

Seriously??? You question whether football players get in more fights or are more aggressive than engineering types? Wow. Do you need a link to support the idea of gravity? Get real. By the time football players enter a D1 campus they have had their aggression nourished and honed for over a decade, right through their most formative years. I am NOT saying that football players are all thugs or anything like that. I played at YVC and I can say with honesty I knew of no thugs or bad kids on the team. But make no mistake: we were more aggressive than the science majors. Why in the world would you doubt that?? You need to look at what I'm saying and what I am not saying. I specifically said that I am NOT commenting on the merits (or lack thereof) of this particular case, just commenting that it was weird that so many people defaulted to a position in which football players were not aggressive. And that is pure nonsense.

 

[Coug1990]

Seriously??? You question whether football players get in more fights or are more aggressive than engineering types? Wow. Do you need a link to support the idea of gravity? Get real. By the time football players enter a D1 campus they have had their aggression nourished and honed for over a decade, right through their most formative years. I am NOT saying that football players are all thugs or anything like that. I played at YVC and I can say with honesty I knew of no thugs or bad kids on the team. But make no mistake: we were more aggressive than the science majors. Why in the world would you doubt that?? You need to look at what I'm saying and what I am not saying. I specifically said that I am NOT commenting on the merits (or lack thereof) of this particular case, just commenting that it was weird that so many people defaulted to a position in which football players were not aggressive. And that is pure nonsense.

Because I do. The real world is full of things that seems like a reasonable conclusion, but when research is done, proves otherwise.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Much of this is simply not true. If you really do not understand the perspective that Marks brought to the table (and it seems like you do not), it may be somewhat outside of what your daily life would be. I can tell you that these situations happen often. Whether it is an athlete on campus, or the biggest guy in the bar...you are a target. I have been out playing pool and ended up in fights because some guys simply want to pick a fight with a bigger guy to prove themselves in their clique. This is not really new, but seems to be more prevalent now. You add on top of that the knowledge that the guys whole career (scholarship) is at risk and yours is not....it exacerbates the situation greatly.

Since this thread refuses to die, let me address your comment about people picking fights with big people. When I was a freshman, my next door neighbor in the dorm was about 6'2" around 215 lbs with shoulders that would have looked good on a lumberjack. Dude loved hitting the gym. When we'd go party on greek row, people were always getting into fights with him and most of the time, it was some 5'10", 190 lb dude trying to see if he could take the title. The thing is, my friend LOVED to fight. Most guys like that say, "people just pick fights with me because I'm big" but secretly, they thrive on that sh!t. He didn't need to respond when those guys messed with him but boy, did he ever respond. If nobody messed with him, he would do shit that would let people know that he was ready to rumble.

There are certainly the big guys that are teddy bears who don't want to fight, but many of the guys that I saw in college that were bigger were always eager to show how badass they truly were. FWIW, the football player that I mentioned previously, was actually a little more muscular, and weirdly enough, he never got in a fight the whole time I knew him.

 

[YakiCoug]

Since this thread refuses to die, let me address your comment about people picking fights with big people. When I was a freshman, my next door neighbor in the dorm was about 6'2" around 215 lbs with shoulders that would have looked good on a lumberjack. Dude loved hitting the gym. When we'd go party on greek row, people were always getting into fights with him and most of the time, it was some 5'10", 190 lb dude trying to see if he could take the title. The thing is, my friend LOVED to fight. Most guys like that say, "people just pick fights with me because I'm big" but secretly, they thrive on that sh!t. He didn't need to respond when those guys messed with him but boy, did he ever respond. If nobody messed with him, he would do shit that would let people know that he was ready to rumble.

There are certainly the big guys that are teddy bears who don't want to fight, but many of the guys that I saw in college that were bigger were always eager to show how badass they truly were. FWIW, the football player that I mentioned previously, was actually a little more muscular, and weirdly enough, he never got in a fight the whole time I knew him.

So much for moving on, flat earth.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

So much for moving on, flat earth.

I promise to not add any additional posts to this thread if people let it die as well.

 

[dgibbons]

I promise to not add any additional posts to this thread if people let it die as well.

In other word you're a hypocrite.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

In other word you're a hypocrite.

In other words, if you keep posting crap like this....the thread keeps rolling. I was happy to see the thread finally die off before the game. Unfortunately, MRICoug decided to use his medical skills to bring the thing back from the dead on Saturday night because god forbid we enjoy watching the Cougs win 69-7. You keep trying to read my mind and project agendas onto me and fail to understand that my viewpoint on Barber is very simple:

1) Don't get in fights unless you are willing to suffer the consequences.
2) The university is more important to me than one player who couldn't keep his cool on a hot summer night.
3) If he gets to play again, I'm fine with it because missing a few games is punishment enough in my mind.
4) If everyone at the party was punished, it would be fine by me. That doesn't mean Barber gets off in the meantime.

There are no traumas in my past that shape my feelings, there are no hidden agendas against football players or other athletes, no racism or any other bullsh!t that you are trying to project on to me. I expect accountability and don't feel sorry for guys that make stupid mistakes and then try and blame other people and don't feel that they should be punished. Whether you think I'm wrong or not is up to you, but don't be pushing all of your own insecurities and issues on to me.

 

[dgibbons]

In other words, if you keep posting crap like this....the thread keeps rolling. I was happy to see the thread finally die off before the game. Unfortunately, MRICoug decided to use his medical skills to bring the thing back from the dead on Saturday night because god forbid we enjoy watching the Cougs win 69-7. You keep trying to read my mind and project agendas onto me and fail to understand that my viewpoint on Barber is very simple:

1) Don't get in fights unless you are willing to suffer the consequences.
2) The university is more important to me than one player who couldn't keep his cool on a hot summer night.
3) If he gets to play again, I'm fine with it because missing a few games is punishment enough in my mind.
4) If everyone at the party was punished, it would be fine by me. That doesn't mean Barber gets off in the meantime.

There are no traumas in my past that shape my feelings, there are no hidden agendas against football players or other athletes, no racism or any other bullsh!t that you are trying to project on to me. I expect accountability and don't feel sorry for guys that make stupid mistakes and then try and blame other people and don't feel that they should be punished. Whether you think I'm wrong or not is up to you, but don't be pushing all of your own insecurities and issues on to me.

Why do you need or deserve to get the last word in? I understand your view point just fine. I happen to think we can discuss Robert Barber and the student conduct board and enjoy football at the same time.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Since this thread refuses to die, let me address your comment about people picking fights with big people. When I was a freshman, my next door neighbor in the dorm was about 6'2" around 215 lbs with shoulders that would have looked good on a lumberjack. Dude loved hitting the gym. When we'd go party on greek row, people were always getting into fights with him and most of the time, it was some 5'10", 190 lb dude trying to see if he could take the title. The thing is, my friend LOVED to fight. Most guys like that say, "people just pick fights with me because I'm big" but secretly, they thrive on that sh!t. He didn't need to respond when those guys messed with him but boy, did he ever respond. If nobody messed with him, he would do shit that would let people know that he was ready to rumble.

There are certainly the big guys that are teddy bears who don't want to fight, but many of the guys that I saw in college that were bigger were always eager to show how badass they truly were. FWIW, the football player that I mentioned previously, was actually a little more muscular, and weirdly enough, he never got in a fight the whole time I knew him.

There's a reason why anecdotal evidence isn't allowed in court. Or science. Or even a fair debate. it's the same reason that your story, or my story, don't mean shit in the grand scheme of things.

Guess what - I lived with two football players too, and we had a couple of fights involving guys at my house. You know who wasn't involved? The football players. In fact, most times they were off studying or with their gf keeping their heads low and purposely staying out of trouble because they valued the opportunity given to them.

Now, who's story holds more weight?

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Why do you need or deserve to get the last word in? I understand your view point just fine. I happen to think we can discuss Robert Barber and the student conduct board and enjoy football at the same time.

I don't feel that I necessarily need to get the last word in. If someone has a relevant point and I don't have anything new to add.....I may keep quiet. When you look at the thread on Saturday, MRI comes in with "Cool Story Bro, nice grudge" and Coug1990 says, "He has an agenda". I say, "Why don't we just move on", Yaki has to puke out a personal attack. There isn't anything new or meaningful, it's just assholes on the internet taking potshots because that's what people do on the internet. I should probably take the high ground and not respond to stupidity, but it's always tempting to say something back, particularly when people are projecting their own insecurities and emotions on to you.

In hindsight, I should have let SC and 1990 have the last word and for that, I apologize.

 

[SCglory]

Because I do. The real world is full of things that seems like a reasonable conclusion, but when research is done, proves otherwise.

well, needless to say, the burden of proof is always on the most implausible claim....so that's yours. Give me some good links to some juried articles that support the notion of engineering nerds who roam campuses seeking and taking their revenge on the world and I'll read it.

My larger point has to do with us--the larger society--and our role in fueling these guys up for so long, then gasping and wringing our hands because they actually used their aggression outside the field.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Give me some good links to some juried articles that support the notion of engineering nerds who roam campuses seeking and taking their revenge on the world and I'll read it.

Evidence 1

Evidence 2

 

[Coug1990]

well, needless to say, the burden of proof is always on the most implausible claim....so that's yours. Give me some good links to some juried articles that support the notion of engineering nerds who roam campuses seeking and taking their revenge on the world and I'll read it.

My larger point has to do with us--the larger society--and our role in fueling these guys up for so long, then gasping and wringing our hands because they actually used their aggression outside the field.

This is also wrong. The burden of proof is always on the person that is making the supposition. But, whatever.

 

[SCglory]

This is also wrong. The burden of proof is always on the person that is making the supposition. But, whatever.

We are both making claims. Mine is intuitive and meshes with common sense observations, yours goes against that. You're the one with the burden of proof, and your burden is greater.....but maybe--as another suggested--the revenge of the nerds is a case of art imitating life.....

 

[SCglory]

Evidence 1

Evidence 2

I wondered if anyone was going to use one of those clips. Good one

 

[Coug1990]

No, that is simply not true. I am making an intuitive and common sense claim, it is you that are making a counter-supposition (thus we are both making claims). Mine is intuitive and meshes with common sense observations, yours goes against that. You're the one with the burden of proof, and your burden is greater. So man up: are you or are you not claiming that nerds are equal to or greater than football players in aggression? Yes or no?

I am saying there is no evidence either way. Yours is just you believing something. That is not evidence anymore than when scientists once thought that meat turned into flies.