Smith news conference

[mikalalas]

A lot of it is just moving without the ball, maintaining spacing, and using passing more than dribble drive to move the ball.

You, others make it sound like dribble drive is a bad thing. It can be if it is done 100% of the time. If it is 1 on 2,3,4. If it is wild out of control. If the dribble driver is not a good ball handler. If the dribble driver is cant prevent, stop ball from getting stolen. If dribble driver cant either find, pass to the open man, an or score, finish at the rim effectively. If the dribble driver is not athletic, fast enough. If the dribble driver can't beat guy off dribble. If dribble driver does can't avoid charging fouls. If the dribble driver cant shoot free throws effectively, as dribble drivers can get fouled a lot.

If a dribble driver cant do the things they should and dont do thr things they shouldnt, dribble drivers will either stand around doing nothing. Or they will do something bad.

And the teammates cant just stand around watching the dribble driver go 1 on 1.

They have to: 1. Create space, iso the dribble driver, preferable on a good mismatch. 2. They need to move, to get open. 3. If dribble driver collasped, need to be open, ready to shoot, if dribble driver drives dishes to them. 4. Need to help box out, seal the lane, help prevent super athletic shot blockers from flying in out of nowhere and blocking the shot of the dribble driver, trying to finish at rim. 5. Ready to rebound, crash the board. 6. Ready to get back on defense.

If all the good things cant be done, and bad things avoided, then dribble driving can be a bad thing, if done too much.

Dribble Driving, and passing into either the post inside, or to a open slasher, cutter, that is open, going to the basket without ball, is basically either the same thing, or achieves the same thing.

And that is not only scoring, but moving the ball in, out, for spacing purposes of scoring easier.

Cant just stand around passing it around on the outside and making shots.

Why? Because if pass around, make open outside shots. And then when defense closes on outside, cant continue to try to pass around, make outside shots. Those outside shots would either get blocked, or missed. Eventually have to punch the ball inside to either a big man posted up inside, or to a cutter, or have to dribble drive, in order to open the outside.

Even if defense is packing it in a little bit, not respecting outside shot, going to have to punch it inside, in addition to making outside shots.

Any good offense is a inside/outside, outside/inside offensive game. Outside only, or inside only offense are usually not good.

And dribble drive can be a good way to punch inside.

In fact a good offense needs to be able to dribble drive inside effectively because a good offfense needs to be able to post up inside, pass to open cutters inside, and be able to dribble drive inside, needs to do all 3 of those 3 things effectively.

If dont, good defenses will be able to stop 1,2 of those 3 things.

But it is extremely difficult for a defense to stop all 3 of posting up, passing to open inside cutters to basket, dribble driving.

Smith of course recognizes these things.

Smith doesnt deemphasize dribble driving. Instead Smith teaches how to dribble drive correctly. When to do it.

And as part of his offense he teaches take what the defense gives you, or if nothing given, beat the defense where you can.

That means if you have a big man posted up inside on a mismatch, and that big man is good at scoring inside on such a mismatch, and if there isnt a better opportunity elsewhere, then pass, get the ball to the post.

If either the post, or dribble driver has the ball and a open cutter is going to the rim, and said open cutter is good at finishing at rim, and if post, or driver is stopped, and if no better opportunity elsewhere then pass ball to open cutter going to rim.

If post has ball, and if dribble drive player is 1 on 1 mismatch on outside, and if no better opportunities elsewhere, then clear out, create space, move, pass to dribble driver, set pick, screen, dribble driver trys to beat his man, seal the lane, dribble driver either scores at rim, misses at rim, or dishes to either open post, open cutter, open outside shooter.

So you dont NOT do dribble driving. Just like you dont NOT do big man post ups, just like you dont NOT do passing to open cutters going to rim, just like you dont NOT take outside shots.

There is a place for all of those things. Just like there is a place for Dribble Driving.

And Smith knows that.

So you, others can stop saying that Smith doesnt like dribble driving. Or that dribble driving isnt good.

 

[Tx64]

I'm a video guy. Through and through. Without knowing specifics and what EXACTLY he wants/needs, I'll evaluate this via generic. There is no way that it will cost this much. I'd wager the continuing "maintenance", being a server of some sort, continuing storage space for video, will be the continual cost. Maybe another hire specifically for this? But overhead costs, strictly equipment, for some sort of system (assuming slow mo style stuff, as well) will not cost $200K. I think it would be less than $100K, personally. They don't need an Arri Alexa or Sony F55 4k or anything.

My understanding is this amounts to several cameras mounted throughout the gym to capture small movements. I would guess a company uses computers to evaluate the data and break it down for the coaches, therefore the service. I do not think it will require more personnel. A few years ago the NBA installed the system in all their gyms for $100,000 per team. He would want this in his game and practice gyms if different. Same for the ladies team (Title 9). Hiring Smith without the tools that made him successful is crazy. It would be a non-starter for me.

 

[Coug95man2]

My understanding is this amounts to several cameras mounted throughout the gym to capture small movements. I would guess a company uses computers to evaluate the data and break it down for the coaches, therefore the service. I do not think it will require more personnel. A few years ago the NBA installed the system in all their gyms for $100,000 per team. He would want this in his game and practice gyms if different. Same for the ladies team (Title 9). Hiring Smith without the tools that made him successful is crazy. It would be a non-starter for me.

"A few years ago" means prices have gone down. So if the NBA did it for that price, it's probably come down a scoosh. And I'd wager the quality doesn't need to be the same as the NBA so bring it down even more.
Makes sense, though. The funny thing, there will probably be more camera's under his direction and disposal, than what the PAC 12 has on a given broadcast pointed at the action, wide angle, usable for him! lol.
Without knowing true cost and making some serious assumptions, I'm with you. Get a few wrinky-dink cameras, Blackmagic I/O's, a little cable and a computer with external hard drives. Whoopty skip.

 

[avabob1]

Nothing wrong with dribble drive except you too often end up in a 2 man game with 3 guys standing and watching .

 

[mikalalas]

Nothing wrong with dribble drive except you too often end up in a 2 man game with 3 guys standing and watching .

Yep your right about there is nothing wrong, with it, except when that happens.

But that is a problem with that stuff happening, not the concept, purpose of dribble drive.

And you could say the same thing about a big man posting up, trying to score inside.

If everybody stands around while either the big man posting up, or the dribble driver tries to score inside, that is hardly the fault of a big man posting up, or a dribble driver, dribble driving.

You dont abandon big men posting up, an or the dribble drive, just because teammates stand, watch, gawk, do nothing, etc.

Instead you TEACH, TRAIN, UNTIL teammates STOP standing, watching, gawking, doing NOTHING, until they DO WHAT THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO, in order for big man posting up, and dribble driving to work.

Thats what a good coach does. A good coach doesnt abandon big men posting up, dribble driving.

A bad coach on the other hand either wrongly abandons, or is unable to teach, train properly, or is unaware, or ignores, and continues to do big men posting up, dribble driving, while failing to stop other team members from standing around watching, gawking, doing NOTHING.

And thats part of why Kent was a bad coach.

Smith will train, teach his team how to post up big men, dribble drive properly as part of overally offensive system, doing each to take what defense gives, beating defense where can.

He will teach his team not to stand around watching, gawking, doing NOTHING.

He will teach them to MOVE, clear out, create space, get open, set picks, screens, seal lane, etc, when big men post up, when dribble driver dribble drives.

 

[Observer11]

You guys are confusing the high-ball screen stuff/dive to the corners that a lot of NBA teams run with the Dribble Drive. Dribble Drive has motion all over the place - it's a read and react offense.

Guy named Vance Walberg has some nice stuff on it. Calipari does too.

 

[mikalalas]

You guys are confusing the high-ball screen stuff/dive to the corners that a lot of NBA teams run with the Dribble Drive. Dribble Drive has motion all over the place - it's a read and react offense.

Guy named Vance Walberg has some nice stuff on it. Calipari does too.

Your right, except about the part where your seeming to say that I am supposedly confusing dribble driving with high ball screen stuff.

Your right that dribble drive is a motion, read and react offense. Your also right that High ball screen stuff, dives to corners, pick and rolls, post ups are, can be part of the offense.

The greatest offenses, offense is the motion, mover, blocker, pick, screen, roll, read, react, seal the lane, inside, outside, outside, inside, big men post ups, open cutters to rim, dives to corners, dribble drivers, etc, offense.

That type of offense is the basketball equivalent to footballs Air Raid, 1 back spread, 3 WR's, 1 RB, 1 TE spread, Air Raid, spread variants.

The goal of such a basketball offense is to use the whole halfcourt, and every square inch of the halfcourt, create space, create misdirection, create scoring opportunities inside, outside, over every OPEN, spaced out, less defended, square inch of the halfcourt.

The goal of such an offense is to read, react, either take whatever the defense gives, or if defense gives nothing, beat defense where can.

In such a offense, there is dribble driving. And in such a offense there is NOT standing around watching, gawking, doing nothing.

That is NOT part of the offense. But is rather part of what untaught, untrained, players semi naturally do when they either see a big man post up, or a dribble driver dribble drive.

They often stand watch, do nothing, because they think the big man posting up, or the dribble driver will score like superman, and that they are awestruck, or think that they dont have to do anything but stand there watch their teammate score.

The same type of thing happens when players take long NBA type, style 3 point shots.

But like I said before, the way to deal with that is to teach, train to fix that.

If do that this, that type of offense works just fine.

And Smith teach, trains, uses that offense just fine, and therefore doesnt have unfixed problems of standing around, watching, doing nothing, while big men post up, while dribble drives happen, while cutters cut to the rim, while dives to the corners happen, while outside shots happen, while anything happens.

Smith teaches his teams, offense to move, etc, just fine.

And so thats why your right.

 

[mikalalas]

Oh, and the first place, time I saw such a offense was when I walked on to the BBCC community college mens B Ball team, under coach Mark Poth, and played pick up ball with coach Poth, coaches Dan Fortier, Kelly Graves, before that.

We would talk about basketball strategy, offense, defense.

Both the mens, womens teams, under both Poth(Mens), Kelly Graves(Assistant/Head Coach/Womens), the offenses used, did what I described, COMBINED with Run/Gun.

It started with Defense/steals/rebounds/quick outlet to run/gun, cherry pick, easy score UNDER CONTROL, NOT TURNING OVER BALL, if opportunity was there, and slowing it up, transitioning into the Halfcourt Offense I described above, if the opportunity to run/gun/score, UNDER CONTROL, NO TURNOVERS, was not there.

Because of that, both the Mens, Women's teams went to the NWAAJC playoffs, championship, beat EWU, CWU, Whitworth, etc.

Also didnt hurt that 1,2,3,4 of the players were good enough to transfer, play for EWU, Gonzaga, University of Idaho, Oregon State, etc, type colleges back then.

Also because of that, that is why Kelly Graves became Gonzaga's Women's B Ball Head Coach, and did well during his tenure.

So the offense is not new, has been proven effective, works, and Smith will do just fine with that kind of offense. And Smith's Analytics will only make the offense better.

 

[Observer11]

I'm a coaches' kid. I coached. Let me translate:

Move the ball, move the man.

Defend, rebound, share the ball.

It's really simple.

 

[avabob1]

Agree observer. Its not rocket science

 

[jourdand]

Most teams can play defense for one or two passes but anymore three plus passes and somebody will be out of position. After that it’s just a matter of identifying and attacking the week link.

 

[avabob1]

That's exactly what Dick Bennett use to tell his kids when working on his half court offense . He said he wanted to see at least 3 passes in the offense because it took that many to get a good look against a decent D.

 

[Observer11]

That's exactly what Dick Bennett use to tell his kids when working on his half court offense . He said he wanted to see at least 3 passes in the offense because it took that many to get a good look against a decent D.

When I was coaching, I actually implemented a standard called the "Player Name Rule" (redacted to protect the trigger-happy. Players were free to shoot it on zero or 1 touches -but if they missed, they were immediately taken out of the game.

It took about 5 minutes and 5 substitutions for ball movement to improve and then that became a normal expectation in the program. Again, not rocket science.

 

[Tx64]

When I was coaching, I actually implemented a standard called the "Player Name Rule" (redacted to protect the trigger-happy. Players were free to shoot it on zero or 1 touches -but if they missed, they were immediately taken out of the game.

It took about 5 minutes and 5 substitutions for ball movement to improve and then that became a normal expectation in the program. Again, not rocket science.

What is "nerd-ball" without a motion tracking system? Get Smith his system WSU.

 

[CecilYounger]

What is "nerd-ball" without a motion tracking system? Get Smith his system WSU.

I suspect that it is pretty much what it is with the motion tracking system. If this is important to Smith I am sure that it came up in their interview; and that Smith and the AD agree on the priority of this.

 

[mikalalas]

When I was coaching, I actually implemented a standard called the "Player Name Rule" (redacted to protect the trigger-happy. Players were free to shoot it on zero or 1 touches -but if they missed, they were immediately taken out of the game.

It took about 5 minutes and 5 substitutions for ball movement to improve and then that became a normal expectation in the program. Again, not rocket science.

I would modify that slightly. I agree IF players are not OPEN, if no easy lay up, outside shot, scoring opportunity, then pass it. And if take bad shot, miss, and if not 2,3,4 passes, before bad shot, your benched, after 1,2,3 times doing that.


But IF have a good, open shot, and dont pass it, and take shot, miss it. Then even if ball not passed 1,2,3,4 times before that, that player should not be benched, unless he is a bad shooter, doing that a lot.

But a good shooter doing that a lot, should not be benched.

Team, players should be OPPORTUNIST, if the OPPORTUNITY is there, before any passes, they should take it, if they are a good shooter.

Your way potentially punishes team, player for trying to take advantage of a good opportunity, before passes happen.

If I am coaching Klay, and Klay is wide open before any passes, not going to tell Klay to not take the shot.

 

[Observer11]

I would modify that slightly. I agree IF players are not OPEN, if no easy lay up, outside shot, scoring opportunity, then pass it. And if take bad shot, miss, and if not 2,3,4 passes, before bad shot, your benched, after 1,2,3 times doing that.


But IF have a good, open shot, and dont pass it, and take shot, miss it. Then even if ball not passed 1,2,3,4 times before that, that player should not be benched, unless he is a bad shooter, doing that a lot.

But a good shooter doing that a lot, should not be benched.

Team, players should be OPPORTUNIST, if the OPPORTUNITY is there, before any passes, they should take it, if they are a good shooter.

Your way potentially punishes team, player for trying to take advantage of a good opportunity, before passes happen.

If I am coaching Klay, and Klay is wide open before any passes, not going to tell Klay to not take the shot.

I'm pretty ok with my approach. Garage full of trophies, conference titles for the school team, state tournament berths and a bunch of kids still playing college ball....

 

[mikalalas]

It does not matter who says a TRUTH. The inherent, intrinsic value of a TRUTH does not change based on who says it.

Same with a UNtruth, UNtrue principle.

Just so you know, my father was a Head Coach, teacher of Girls Basketball.

I played, ate, slept, etc, basketball my whole under 23 life, including collegeball team that walked onto, under great coaches, except for highschool, because of stupid political, last place in big 9 head coach, who only allowed certain players like 6 foot 3 Mike Walker, who couldnt play anything renotely resembling basketball if his life depended on it, and ignored better players that were forced to play pick up playground ball, because coach too stupid to let them play on team.

And I played under, for, with, pick up ball, talked with Kelly Graves, Poth, etc.

I havent coached B Ball, but I have officiated it, played it, etc, know what I am talking about.

But thats not what makes me right

This is what makes me right:

If you would bench Klay Thompson, or any other equally good shooter, whether kid, highschool player, college player, NBA player, etc, because they took a wide open shot, and missed, before, without any passes, that is wrong to do PERIOD, no ands, ifs, buts about it.

And thats true. Doesnt matter how many coaching credentials, etc you have.

That would be a pretty dumb, stupid thing of you to do if you did that.

But that said, sometimes coaches do stupid things like that, and still win, etc.

Now like I said, if a player, whether highschool, college, NBA, etc, is a bad shooter, is not wide open, and takes a stupid, bad shot, and then misses, before, without passes, then you bench that player after 1,2 times doing that.

Or

If a player whether highschool, college, NBA is a bad shooter, takes a wide open shot, misses it, before, without any passes, 1,2 times then bench that player.

BUT

If a player is a good shooter, is wide open, misses the shot, before without any passes, then you dont bench a player like that, as that stupid.

And I dont care that you dont care, wont listen, disagree, etc.

My LOGIC IS UNASSAILABLE on, about this.

Your logic is either flawed, or as Spock would say, your illogical.

Doesnt matter that if you still won DESPITE stupidly benching a good awesome good shooting wide open player that missed a wide open shot, before, without passing, IF IF IF YOU DID THAT.

IN FACT IF IF IF YOU STUPIDLY DID THAT, you probably lost a couple, few, some of those games, because you stupidly did that, IF IF IF you did that.

The truth is the truth.

Go take your dick measuring elsewhere, and instead focus on why your right, others are wrong, instead of starting to dick measure.

 

[Observer11]

Klay Thompson is the exception, not the rule.

Building a program hoping to have Klay Thompson walk through the door is what got Ernie fired.

HTH

 

[mikalalas]

Klay Thompson is the exception, not the rule.

Building a program hoping to have Klay Thompson walk through the door is what got Ernie fired.

HTH

Even if you have a bunch of players, that are not Klay Thompson like, whether highschool, college, NBA, 1 of them probably might probably be at least a GOOD SHOOTER.

I am not saying to wait for a Klay Thompson exception to walk thru the door.

Say you have 15 NORMAL NON KLAY THOMSPON LIKE players.

Say at least 1,2 of them are good, great, awesome shooters that that make their shots with high percentage.

Now lets say 1 of them is 56% from 3 point line.

Now lets say your team is in halfcourt with your 56% 3 point shooting point guard at the top of the key, standing behind the 3 point line.

Now lets say for some strange reason, there is not a defensive player within, under 8, 9 yards away, and that he is WIDE OPEN.

So he takes the wide open 3 point shot that he makes 56% of the time, and misses, before, without the ball being passed even 1 time in the halfcourt.

According to your rules, you would have to bench that player immediatly.

Now in the above example, the player is not as good as Klay Thompson. You didnt wait for your 56% 3 point shooting point guard to walk through the door.

In fact your 56% 3 point shooting PG is 5 foot 6, UNATHLETIC, etc, and the only reason the player is playing on the varsity team, and is not playing on the C team BELOW the JV team, is because well he shoots 56% from 3 point range, passes well, doesnt turn over ball, good ball dribbler handler, etc.

So your going to bench that player because he took a wide open shot as a good shooter that missed one, before, without passes.

If you did that, that would be totally stupid.

I get the overrall principle your trying to do.

But there has got to be EXCEPTIONS.

IF not then thats stupid.

 

[Tx64]

I suspect that it is pretty much what it is with the motion tracking system. If this is important to Smith I am sure that it came up in their interview; and that Smith and the AD agree on the priority of this.

I hope you are right. It is relativity inexpensive and needed like yesterday. IPF for Leach has been promised for a while. Leach is still waiting.

 

[avabob1]

Its really about getting a shot in the flow of. the offense. That can be one pass or 5. The problem is if your offense doesn't have any flow or off the ball movement. Then even a great shooter like Klay ends up taking lower percentage shots. In Fact Klay is a good example. He is the best shooter I have ever seen in Pullman. Yet Fontaine, Kelati. And Hill had better 3 point shooting percentages. Klay only exceeded 40% his first year under Tony.