The “great” negotiator
- Thread starter Flatlandcoug
- Start date
Why are you and 90 cheering it on?
Are Ukrainians ready for ceasefire and concessions? Here’s what the polls say
More Ukrainians are willing to negotiate for peace now than in the early stages of the conflict − but clear red lines remain for the public.theconversation.com
I'm not "cheering it on". I'd love to see Russia pull out and go home. I absolutely support a ceasefire that stops the killing. I think Ukraine should keep fighting if the only way that Russia will stop is if Ukraine gives up their future as a sovereign nation. And if the side effect in supporting Ukraine is weakening Russia so that they can't pull this bullsh!t on others....it's a good thing for the world.
I oppose the notion of our Cheeto-in-Chief using Russia's attack as leverage for us to pressure Ukraine into giving up a half trillion dollars in natural resources in order for us to help them achieve peace. I don't believe that supporting democracy should be a transactional relationship where you are only interested if you come out ahead financially. Your dear leader's actions are creating a world where China is the sane, logical choice as an ally.....and it's fuggin' unbelievable that those words can be typed and be true.
Because the oligarchs in power won’t fight for themselves so they kidnap weaker Ukrainians to fight for them
Why did you start a thread mocking efforts to end the war?
That’s not an answer.
Answer the god damned question.
And wipe that Russian dressing off your chin while you’re at it.
I was making fun of your dear leader throwing a tantrum because he doesn't have the patience (or the skill) to deal with someone like Putin. Trump is getting played like a chump right now and he has the attention span of a squirrel. He's got a world's economy to ruin and he doesn't have time to negotiate seriously.
This like debating “play calling” watching a football game on TV without having the first clue what’s going on in the coaches box, sideline or huddle.
It’s a great skill you possess.
It’s a great skill you possess.
I don't even know what Willie's question is/was - every post from you children is a question of some sort.
That said Gibby, your Post 76 doesn't say shit. I quote:
"Every war is more than any superpower can do, especially without Flatland and other chickenhawks standing on the sideline. Not hard to understand. Why do you want to throw more Ukrainians into the meat grinder?"
You sure as shit didn't even try to answer my very clear and pointed question - what is YOUR plan to end the war? Give up the 4 invaded regions? Ban Ukraine from NATO? Have little if any security assurances? Give up on getting Crimea back? Those are basically Putin's terms. What do YOU suggest? Pretty clear question, counselor.
As I've said, I'd forget about Crimea. The rest I call BS on unless UKRAINE and ONLY UKRAINE agrees to swallow the conditions to stop further bloodshed. Which as the world know has been worse for the Russians (and now North Koreans) than Ukraine. Russia just has more cannon fodder. Another possibility, if a legitimate vote is even possible - maybe under UN supervision, is to have the occupied regions vote on their status. Join Russia or remain Ukrainian.
So let's hear it. Or, just post about Ukrainians dying another 10 times.
False. I said use the magnifying glass and look it up. Post 76 in this thread if would have bothered.
Abandoning allies
So, Putin’s plan was not invade Ukraine during Trump’s first term but let US made weapons Trump authorized to arrive with his asset in the WH, wait for Trump to lose 2020, then launch a hastily planned invasion in 2022 with insufficient manpower and logistics, incur 800,000 casualties, wait for...
washingtonstate.forums.rivals.com
Why are you a Putin apologist?Why are you and 90 cheering it on?
Are Ukrainians ready for ceasefire and concessions? Here’s what the polls say
More Ukrainians are willing to negotiate for peace now than in the early stages of the conflict − but clear red lines remain for the public.
He never does and he never will. Cute quips are in your future Willy, just enjoy it.
You were and are mocking efforts to end a war.
If you want the USA to fight for freedom wherever there is trouble, you watched too many episodes of GI Joe as a kid. The US is under no obligation to do so and has never done so, and even it is, the money is going to have to come from somewhere. Ukraine made the offer on the minerals. You may have heard that Congo made a mineral offer too. Why? So the US would go bomb the rebels opposing the government.
Oh, your 2-month-old post #76 in a completely different thread. Not THIS thread. Gotcha. Don't necessarily think your solution is a great one, but hey you laid it out there. You could have just re-posted it and made it easy.False. I said use the magnifying glass and look it up. Post 76 in this thread if would have bothered.
Abandoning allies
So, Putin’s plan was not invade Ukraine during Trump’s first term but let US made weapons Trump authorized to arrive with his asset in the WH, wait for Trump to lose 2020, then launch a hastily planned invasion in 2022 with insufficient manpower and logistics, incur 800,000 casualties, wait for...
But, question asked and answered. See how easy that was? I'm happy now.
Why are you lying? And weakening Russia is so darn cheap, unless you're a Ukrainian.
I'm fine with the US stepping back from being the world's police. Too often, we've been at the forefront when no one else would step up. That is not the case in Ukraine. Many of our allies were stepping and providing weapons, munitions and money to help Ukraine. Were we doing the most? Sure. Would it be appropriate for us to scale back some? Probably.
As far as Ukraine making the offer.....as usual....you and your MAGA brethren are full of crap and attempting to rewrite history. Below is an excerpt that I found on the topic:
The bilateral agreement is markedly different from the original minerals deal proposed by the Trump administration. The initial deal called for Ukraine to use its mineral resources to repay the United States $500 billion for military aid previously provided. The agreed upon framework does not designate the rights of $500 billion worth of minerals revenues to the United States nor does it include a security guarantee for Ukraine. Rather, the agreement establishes a reconstruction investment fund with joint U.S. and Ukraine ownership. Ukraine will contribute 50 percent of all revenues earned from the future monetization of all Ukrainian government-owned natural resource assets into the fund. This includes minerals deposits, oil, natural gas, and other relevant infrastructure, but, notably, it does not include resources that are already serving as a revenue source to Ukraine, such as the operations of Naftogaz and Ukrnafta, Ukraine’s largest oil and gas producers. This means, the profitability of the fund is entirely dependent on the success of new investments in Ukraine’s resources.
"Yuri Sak, adviser to Ukraine's ministry of strategic industries, told the BBC Radio 4's Today program on Wednesday that a minerals deal was initially Ukraine's idea which had been presented to Washington and other allies in 2024."
US-Ukraine rare earths deal: everything we know
A deal to jointly explore resources could improve relations with the Trump administration.
www.newsweek.com
How am I lying. You are telling us you are. And cost is always relative, you’re certainly fine pissing away $3T on a senseless trade war.
You're equating money to an entire generation (or maybe more) of Ukrainians. Not so cheap.
And you haven't answered why you're lying.
"Yuri Sak, adviser to Ukraine's ministry of strategic industries, told the BBC Radio 4's Today program on Wednesday that a minerals deal was initially Ukraine's idea which had been presented to Washington and other allies in 2024."
US-Ukraine rare earths deal: everything we know
A deal to jointly explore resources could improve relations with the Trump administration.
Consider me wrong if that's accurate. Everything that I've seen has been that it was the United States that started the conversation....but apparently it was the US bringing it back to the table after a hiatus. I have no doubt that the US offer was significantly different though.
You can bet that Ukraine's offer in 2024 wasn't, "Hey, we'll give you a half billion dollars of our natural resources because you've been nice in the past. Don't worry about the future of Ukraine though...we're just happy that the US will make a profit as Russia subjugates us".
"As far as Ukraine making the offer.....as usual....you and your MAGA brethren are full of crap and attempting to rewrite history."
-Flatlandcoug
I have answered. I’m not. Your issue isn’t about dead Ukrainians it’s about the cost of supporting them. Why are you a Putin apologist?
Incorrect. Unlike you, I do actually care about Ukrainian lives.
And I'm not. As you know.
You’re wrong. When in doubt, ask grok or ChatGPT
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy first proposed a minerals deal with the United States in the fall of 2024, as part of his "Victory Plan" to strengthen Ukraine’s position in peace negotiations with Russia by leveraging its natural resources.[](https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-economic-agreement-us-72ee2cfa720f6a42455c5425007060e6)[](https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c337461n3xlo)
Great point. Are you in doubt that Trump is a Russian asset? You should probably ask Grok 👌🏼
Sure. But I care about Ukrainians, certainly more than you do. It’s not a binary choice.
Every once in a while....I am wrong.
It doesn't change that it went from Ukraine saying, "we are willing to offer this in exchange for your future support" to Trump saying, "You owe us for everything that we've done, you now have to sign away 20% of your country immediately and accept concessions that will lead to the fall of your country as soon as we've extracted the resources we want".
Zelenskyy presented the Ukraine Victory Plan to the Ukrainian Parliament on October 16, 2024, which included:
STRATEGIC ECONOMIC POTENTIAL
Zelenskiy proposed that Ukraine sign an agreement with the U.S., EU and other unnamed allies that would allow for joint investments and use of Ukraine's natural resources, which Zelenskiy said were worth trillions of dollars. "These include, in particular, uranium, titanium, lithium, graphite and other strategically valuable resources that will strengthen either Russia and its allies or Ukraine and the democratic world in global competition," he said.You care about Ukrainians about as much as Trump cares about Christianity. You’re just standing there with an upside down bible.
Well, any amount is more than you do. That cheap weakening of Russia is not so cheap for Ukraine.
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