The Ethical dilemma of blowing up the MWC

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

I'm struggling with the idea of "just blow up the MWC, cherry pick the best teams and leave the rest to wither and die... or whatever", since this is basically what just happened to us.

I also realize that in this current college/ semi-pro football environment, moral and ethical considerations have gone out the window if you want to play football on a nationally relevant stage.

I stated this when the NIL/ Portal implications became obvious, but I'd honestly be ok with football going D1 or going away completely. And by that I mean that I'd be mad as hell that its come to this, and extremely sad that 100+ years of tradition gets completely shit on by corporate greed, but when you look at it objectively you have to ask - how much is too much when it comes to funding a football team to the point of being competitive? Becoming non-compliant with Title IX? Chopping all other mens teams to maintain some compliance? Selling your soul to blow up other leagues, just to get the scraps the barons of industry leave to us?

Of course being relegated to the dregs of college football feels horrible, but is the alternative really any better? Or does it just delay the inevitable?

 

[ttowncoug]

Agreed. Not a good look. The MWC should merge with the AAC. The best of those 2 conferences create a new one.

I think a more planned approach here would be nice. Unfortunately, there are winners and losers, and ultimately some MWC teams are not going to be happy.

 

[95coug]

To put this all another way... shit rolls downhill. The Big 10/SEC blow up the Pac-12, the Pac-12 blows up the MWC, the MWC blows up CUSA, CUSA blows up the SUn Belt, and somewhere along the way a couple of teams end up without a chair.

THere's clearly a move to a greater separation of the teams with resources that generate profits (not for the schools, for the networks), and those who don't. The small market teams with small fanbases are going to be the big losers, eventually. That probably starts in this cycle and gains steam in the next.

In the meantime, I found it interesting that the interview with the MWC commissioner didn't even hint at merger. It was all about WSU & OSU joining the MWC. Merger doesn't even seem to be on her mind.

Also noted that in Schulz' interview yesterday, he seemed to have a similar thought - the existence of the PAC depends on Stanford & Cal. If they go to the ACC, WSU and OSU join the MWC. If they stay in the PAC, they try to grab some other teams and make a go of it.

I don't like pinning our future on another school - especially one as dissimilar to us as Stanford - but maybe that's the reality. In the all-about-the-benjamins world, WSU doesn't bring a lot to the table. Stanford is the current big fish, especially with the knowledge that Cal is basically attached to their hip.

I'm going to say this again, knowing it's a pipe dream (but then again, I thought getting Mike Leach was a pipe dream) - Notre Dame is still out there, and is apparently interested in what happens with Stanford & Cal. If we could engineer an alignment that included them and I don't care who else...the PAC survives, gets a media deal, and keeps their seat at the P5 table. Even if we let them stay independent in football and join up in all other sports (they could afford the ACC exit)...nobody's telling Notre Dame that they don't get a chair.

 

[Cougsocal]

That isn't going to happen. For teams to leave the MWC, it will cost 30 million per, as they have given up their media rights. Our move to the MWC will cost us nothing in 2024 as our grant of media right will have expired.

 

[mikalalas]

It's not as bad as some think.

It takes 9 votes to dissolve the MWC, and 7,8,9 of those yes votes probably goto PAC X, because the 9 best programs vote yes to dissolve MWC.

as for the 2,3,4,5 that get left behind: They can get landing spots with C-USA, Sun Belt, AAC, etc, that is either just as good, or almost as good as the MWC, etc.

And going from the MWC to another group of 5 midmajor, IS NOWHERE EVEN REMOTELY CLOSE TO BEING AS BAD AS GOING FROM PAC 12, P5 to Group of 5 midmajor.

And your giving about 80% of the MWC conference the opportunity to be in a P5, with 1,2 CFP, 1,2 NY6, better media deal, etc.

Also, so WSU is just supposed to go to MWC, to a WORSE situation, instead of merging the majority of MWC, into PAC X, just so that don't break up MWC, and leave 2,3,4 MWC teams behind, just so that they don't have to goto Sun Belt, C-USA, which isn't that bad for them.

 

[dgibbons]

To put this all another way... shit rolls downhill. The Big 10/SEC blow up the Pac-12, the Pac-12 blows up the MWC, the MWC blows up CUSA, CUSA blows up the SUn Belt, and somewhere along the way a couple of teams end up without a chair.

THere's clearly a move to a greater separation of the teams with resources that generate profits (not for the schools, for the networks), and those who don't. The small market teams with small fanbases are going to be the big losers, eventually. That probably starts in this cycle and gains steam in the next.

In the meantime, I found it interesting that the interview with the MWC commissioner didn't even hint at merger. It was all about WSU & OSU joining the MWC. Merger doesn't even seem to be on her mind.

Also noted that in Schulz' interview yesterday, he seemed to have a similar thought - the existence of the PAC depends on Stanford & Cal. If they go to the ACC, WSU and OSU join the MWC. If they stay in the PAC, they try to grab some other teams and make a go of it.

I don't like pinning our future on another school - especially one as dissimilar to us as Stanford - but maybe that's the reality. In the all-about-the-benjamins world, WSU doesn't bring a lot to the table. Stanford is the current big fish, especially with the knowledge that Cal is basically attached to their hip.

I'm going to say this again, knowing it's a pipe dream (but then again, I thought getting Mike Leach was a pipe dream) - Notre Dame is still out there, and is apparently interested in what happens with Stanford & Cal. If we could engineer an alignment that included them and I don't care who else...the PAC survives, gets a media deal, and keeps their seat at the P5 table. Even if we let them stay independent in football and join up in all other sports (they could afford the ACC exit)...nobody's telling Notre Dame that they don't get a chair.

Because there is really isn't anything to merge.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

That isn't going to happen. For teams to leave the MWC, it will cost 30 million per, as they have given up their media rights. Our move to the MWC will cost us nothing in 2024 as our grant of media right will have expired.

I think the biggest issue out there is whether or not the "Pac-12" can retain a Power 5 status through some merger with the Mountain West. Taking ego out of the situation, if the current agreements have the Pac-12 as a Power 5 member and we get enough teams to be still considered a conference, there might be some anti-trust issues with the other leagues blowing up the Pac-12 and then booting us out. The MWC teams may be better served to swallow their pride and blow up their conference to come over to the Pac-12 or Pac-16 or whatever.

A critical piece is whether or not the Pac-12 and MWC can negotiate with CBS and ESPN and whomever else that the MWC is lined up with to keep a linear element so it's not 100% streaming.

 

[Meister_Rebel]

In the meantime, I found it interesting that the interview with the MWC commissioner didn't even hint at merger. It was all about WSU & OSU joining the MWC. Merger doesn't even seem to be on her mind.

She is open to all options.

Pac-12, Mountain West merger is ‘not off the table,’ commissioner says

“It’s not off the table, but we have a lot of questions,” Nevarez said. “It is like buying a house. You wouldn’t buy a house without a complete inspection."

www.sltrib.com

 

[ttowncoug]

Pulling in the MWC and calling the Pac-12 is a disservice to the history and legacy of the conference.

Pulling in 8 schools, deserving to be P5, that bring something the table is the only way this holds any real value.

 

[Watson2Coleman]

To put this all another way... shit rolls downhill. The Big 10/SEC blow up the Pac-12, the Pac-12 blows up the MWC, the MWC blows up CUSA, CUSA blows up the SUn Belt, and somewhere along the way a couple of teams end up without a chair.

THere's clearly a move to a greater separation of the teams with resources that generate profits (not for the schools, for the networks), and those who don't. The small market teams with small fanbases are going to be the big losers, eventually. That probably starts in this cycle and gains steam in the next.

In the meantime, I found it interesting that the interview with the MWC commissioner didn't even hint at merger. It was all about WSU & OSU joining the MWC. Merger doesn't even seem to be on her mind.

Also noted that in Schulz' interview yesterday, he seemed to have a similar thought - the existence of the PAC depends on Stanford & Cal. If they go to the ACC, WSU and OSU join the MWC. If they stay in the PAC, they try to grab some other teams and make a go of it.

I don't like pinning our future on another school - especially one as dissimilar to us as Stanford - but maybe that's the reality. In the all-about-the-benjamins world, WSU doesn't bring a lot to the table. Stanford is the current big fish, especially with the knowledge that Cal is basically attached to their hip.

I'm going to say this again, knowing it's a pipe dream (but then again, I thought getting Mike Leach was a pipe dream) - Notre Dame is still out there, and is apparently interested in what happens with Stanford & Cal. If we could engineer an alignment that included them and I don't care who else...the PAC survives, gets a media deal, and keeps their seat at the P5 table. Even if we let them stay independent in football and join up in all other sports (they could afford the ACC exit)...nobody's telling Notre Dame that they don't get a chair.

How did the SEC blow up the PAC 12?

 

[wazzucougs96]

Pulling in the MWC and calling the Pac-12 is a disservice to the history and legacy of the conference.

At this point, who gives a shit?

 

[BSpike76]

I think the biggest issue out there is whether or not the "Pac-12" can retain a Power 5 status through some merger with the Mountain West. Taking ego out of the situation, if the current agreements have the Pac-12 as a Power 5 member and we get enough teams to be still considered a conference, there might be some anti-trust issues with the other leagues blowing up the Pac-12 and then booting us out. The MWC teams may be better served to swallow their pride and blow up their conference to come over to the Pac-12 or Pac-16 or whatever.

A critical piece is whether or not the Pac-12 and MWC can negotiate with CBS and ESPN and whomever else that the MWC is lined up with to keep a linear element so it's not 100% streaming.

I’m sure we could negotiate with them. We negotiated with them right up until they all walked away on the dead tv deal.

And then the most attractive teams ended up in other conferences somehow.

Coincidence?

 

[Cougsocal]

I think the biggest issue out there is whether or not the "Pac-12" can retain a Power 5 status through some merger with the Mountain West. Taking ego out of the situation, if the current agreements have the Pac-12 as a Power 5 member and we get enough teams to be still considered a conference, there might be some anti-trust issues with the other leagues blowing up the Pac-12 and then booting us out. The MWC teams may be better served to swallow their pride and blow up their conference to come over to the Pac-12 or Pac-16 or whatever.

A critical piece is whether or not the Pac-12 and MWC can negotiate with CBS and ESPN and whomever else that the MWC is lined up with to keep a linear element so it's not 100% streaming.

Weren't Cal and Stanford just begging to join the ACC, each MWC school has to buy out or get an agreed media rights deal recission. They are getting peanut right now, who would be willing to let them go, giving up that great deal (media-wise), only to turn around and renegotiate, potentially getting nothing, when you can force the Pac-4 hands in a take it or leave it situation. What am I missing?

 

[Wasichus]

I'm struggling with the idea of "just blow up the MWC, cherry pick the best teams and leave the rest to wither and die... or whatever", since this is basically what just happened to us.

I also realize that in this current college/ semi-pro football environment, moral and ethical considerations have gone out the window if you want to play football on a nationally relevant stage.

I stated this when the NIL/ Portal implications became obvious, but I'd honestly be ok with football going D1 or going away completely. And by that I mean that I'd be mad as hell that its come to this, and extremely sad that 100+ years of tradition gets completely shit on by corporate greed, but when you look at it objectively you have to ask - how much is too much when it comes to funding a football team to the point of being competitive? Becoming non-compliant with Title IX? Chopping all other mens teams to maintain some compliance? Selling your soul to blow up other leagues, just to get the scraps the barons of industry leave to us?

Of course being relegated to the dregs of college football feels horrible, but is the alternative really any better? Or does it just delay the inevitable?

FFS…….what do the words “moral and ethical“ have to do with this, or sports in general, any more?

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

FFS…….what do the words “moral and ethical“ have to do with this, or sports in general, any more?

It's a public school funded by tax dollars, as are most of the universities. There should at least be a facade of morality and ethics.

 

[dgibbons]

It's a public school funded by tax dollars, as are most of the universities. There should at least be a facade of morality and ethics.

Just mimic uw- it's all about stability....

 

[Wasichus]

It's a public school funded by tax dollars, as are most of the universities. There should at least be a facade of morality and ethics.

Oh my….taxpayer dollars demand ethics and morality considerations? Who knew? Better tell the politicians!

And schools/universities acting with ethics and morality where large sums of $$$$ are concerned? Nice thought. Proven wrong for decades upon decades.

Sorry. Just being realistic.

 

[CougPatrol]

I don't know if it's ethics. There are certain financial criteria that need to be met for league affiliations. IE: you have to bring something to the table. WSU and OSU seem to fit in well with the MWC, but let's face it, we'll need to continue to scheduling UW and Oregon (occasionally) to help beef up our numbers. Our November games vs. Wyoming, Utah St, Hawaii, etc. will be brutal.

5-year attendance averages:

Hawaii 20K
Nevada 18K
New Mexico 18K
San Jose St 14K
UNLV 19K
Utah St 19K
Boise St 33K
Colorado St 28K
Air Force 27K
SDSU 30K
Fresno 31K
Wyoming 21K

WSU 29K
OSU 34K

 

[wazzucougs96]

I don't know if it's ethics. There are certain financial criteria that need to be met for league affiliations. IE: you have to bring something to the table. WSU and OSU seem to fit in well with the MWC, but let's face it, we'll need to continue to scheduling UW and Oregon (occasionally) to help beef up our numbers. Our November games vs. Wyoming, Utah St, Hawaii, etc. will be brutal.

5-year attendance averages:

Hawaii 20K
Nevada 18K
New Mexico 18K
San Jose St 14K
UNLV 19K
Utah St 19K
Boise St 33K
Colorado St 28K
Air Force 27K
SDSU 30K
Fresno 31K
Wyoming 21K

WSU 29K
OSU 34K

LOL UW is never ever ever ever going to play in Pullman again. Oregon might, but **** em both. Just play a road game at UCLA and recruit so cal instead.

 

[95coug]

I think the biggest issue out there is whether or not the "Pac-12" can retain a Power 5 status through some merger with the Mountain West. Taking ego out of the situation, if the current agreements have the Pac-12 as a Power 5 member and we get enough teams to be still considered a conference, there might be some anti-trust issues with the other leagues blowing up the Pac-12 and then booting us out. The MWC teams may be better served to swallow their pride and blow up their conference to come over to the Pac-12 or Pac-16 or whatever.

A critical piece is whether or not the Pac-12 and MWC can negotiate with CBS and ESPN and whomever else that the MWC is lined up with to keep a linear element so it's not 100% streaming.

9 of the 12 MWC teams would have to agree to that...which probably means we'd have to bring over at least 9 teams and guarantee them more money. But, pretty sure the more MWC teams we bring, the less money each will get.

 

[mikalalas]

Weren't Cal and Stanford just begging to join the ACC, each MWC school has to buy out or get an agreed media rights deal recission. They are getting peanut right now, who would be willing to let them go, giving up that great deal (media-wise), only to turn around and renegotiate, potentially getting nothing, when you can force the Pac-4 hands in a take it or leave it situation. What am I missing?

If the top 7,8,9 best MWC programs vote to dissolve MWC, join PAC, and then get SMU, Memphis, USF, Tulane, Gonzaga, they won't be risking peanuts, nothing, as it would be a extremely 95% likelyhood, that they would get 1,2 CFP spots, 1,2 NY6 spots, about a 14 mil to 26 mil per team media deal, P5 status, 2,3 NCAA tourny bids, etc.

IF YOU BUILD, DO THAT, THEY WILL NOT ONLY COME, BUT WILL GET THAT, NOT NOTHING.

If I was a MWC school, I would try to join PAC.

And if I was a ESPN type, and if PAC got the BEST TOP 6,7,8,9 MWC PROGRAMS, and then got SMU, Memphis, USF, Tulane, Gonzaga, then I would give about a 14 mil to 27 mil per team deal for that.

PAC, Stanford, WSU, Ore St, Cal, the top best 678 teams of NWC, SMU, Memphis, USF, Tulane, Gonzaga, have to take a semi leap of faith, and join PAC, knowing that they will probably get 1,2 CFP, 1,2 NY6, P5, 2,3 NCAA bids, 14+ to 27 mil per team.

BUILD IT AND IT WILL PROBABLY HAPPEN.

 

[CougInSpain]

9 of the 12 MWC teams would have to agree to that...which probably means we'd have to bring over at least 9 teams and guarantee them more money. But, pretty sure the more MWC teams we bring, the less money each will get.

Not only that, it only becomes a slightly better version of the MWC. Not sure if that will attract the media rights deal we want. But maintaining P5 status should help boost that potential.

 

[95coug]

Not only that, it only becomes a slightly better version of the MWC. Not sure if that will attract the media rights deal we want. But maintaining P5 status should help boost that potential.

I wouldn’t count on keeping P5 rights. The other P5 conferences get to decide on that, I’d be shocked if they let us keep it.