The San Diego Union-Tribune: San Diego State, 4 others formally leave Mountain West

[Dave_86]

Click for free article

Edit: If the San Diego Union-Tribune won't let you read the article for free, then here's MSN with the same article for really free:
MSN: San Diego State, 4 others formally leave Mountain West

 

[PeteTheChop]

 

[Dave_86]

Fresno Bee is now reporting that Fresno State has notified the Mountain West at the end of 2025-26...

Fresno State notifies Mountain West it is departing the league, will join Pac-12

 

[mikalalas]

Well Teresa still FCKED it up, made it harder then it had to be, as it shouldn't have had to goto the last hour, minute, second to give official notice before the June 1st deadline.

Teresa ALMOST Killed the PAC 12. Still could KILL the PAC 12 if she doesn't get 8th football member by July 1st, 2025 deadline, when exit fees to leave a conference and Join PAC 12, would double, which would make getting a 8th football member by July 1st 2026 a extremely less likely, if don't get 8th football member by July 1st, 2025.

My guess on what happened, is that either Teresa Gould hasn't told the MWC 5 about a 8th football member in back pocket, an or media deal in back pocket, or both in back pocket, if 1 or the other or both in back pocket locked up, or they are close to getting a 2026 media deal, an 8th football member, but don't have them in place yet this close to the July 1st 2025 deadline, and that scared the MWC 5 into waiting til the last hour, minute, second to give official notice before June 1st deadline.

And that, those things probably is what scared Scott Barnes into approaching Big 12, ACC and asking them again, recently if Ore St could join one of either Big 12, ACC, which got told no.

And that also probably scared the MWC 5 into waiting til the last.

Now that the MWC 5 gave official notice to MWC, A reverse merger is probably off table, unless Teresa, PAC 12 fail to get a 8th football member, and 2026 media deal by July 1st 2026, which is the next deadline to be worried about.

I suspect tho, that the PAC 12 has at least Texas St, New Mexico St, semi locked up in back pocket, and the same for a 2026 media deal, and that Teresa, PAC 12, MWC 5, everybody, etc, will wait until the last day, hour, minute, second, before the deadline again, that's on July 1st 2025.

It looks like the Monty You Tube show, and the 2 articles I read, were both semi partially wrong and semi partially right about some of the things that happened.

Its clear that Scott Barnes did ask Big 12, ACC again because he is worried, scared, etc.

And its clear that SDSU AD Wicker was getting extremely frustrated, worried, concerned, scared, etc, over how long its taking.

And its clear that the MWC 5 were frustrated, concerned, worried, scared, etc, and that's why they waited til the last, then gave official notice.

But Monty and the 2 articles were wrong about the MWC 5 not giving notice by June 1st deadline, and wrong about MWC 5 going back to MWC, and wrong about the PAC 12 dying by, on June 1st deadline, and probably wrong about the PAC 12 supposedly probably not having 8th football member, Texas St, New Mexico St, 2026 media deal semi locked up in back pocket.

 

[PeteTheChop]

My guess on what happened, is that either Teresa Gould hasn't told the MWC 5 about a 8th football member in back pocket, an or media deal in back pocket, or both in back pocket, if 1 or the other or both in back pocket locked up, or they are close to getting a 2026 media deal, an 8th football member, but don't have them in place yet this close to the July 1st 2025 deadline, and that scared the MWC 5 into waiting til the last hour, minute, second to give official notice before June 1st deadline.

And that, those things probably is what scared Scott Barnes into approaching Big 12, ACC and asking them again, recently if Ore St could join one of either Big 12, ACC, which got told no.

Mik, would you rather see WSU in the Big 12 or a rebuilt Pac 12 -- no matter who is the 8th football member?

Would you be upset if Ann McCoy was using her connections and pulling some strings in an effort to get WSU a spot in the Big 12?

 

[Dave_86]

 

[mikalalas]

Mik, would you rather see WSU in the Big 12 or a rebuilt Pac 12 -- no matter who is the 8th football member?

Would you be upset if Ann McCoy was using her connections and pulling some strings in an effort to get WSU a spot in the Big 12?

WSU/Ore St/PAC 2 ALREADY TRIED TO JOIN THE BIG 12, ACC.


They were told NO, NO, NO, NO, NO by BOTH of the Big 12/ACC EACH TIME.


So NO REASON TO ASK AGAIN UNLESS:


1. SOMETHING CHANGED.

1A. NOTHING HAS CHANGED, AND NOT ENOUGH TIME HAS PASSED

2. PANIC, DESPERATION, YOUR SCARED, WORRIED, CONCERNED that either your going to end up in a BAD situation in PAC 12, OR that the PAC 12 MIGHT NOT GET 8TH FOOTBALL MEMBER, MEDIA DEAL in time, and that the PAC 12 might die because of that, and you DONT WANT TO BE CAUGHT HOLDING THE BAG AGAIN, HOMELESS, ETC.


Now of course I would want Anne McCoy to do the same as Scott Barnes for the same reasons as Scott Barnes, in order to not be the only one left holding the bag, homeless, if, if, if the PAC 12 were to die, not get media deal, not get 8th football member.


But IF EVERYTHING IS FINE. There is no need, reason to go ask Big 12, ACC again, because WILL BE TOLD NO NO NO AGAIN in the SHORT TERM, SHORT TERM, UNLESS, UNTIL something important changes, and until 3,4,5,6 years pass, when, if THE PAC 12 IS, HAS DONE, DOING AWESOME(PAC 12 CHAMP WENT TO CFP(WSU OR ORE ST), and if WSU's and Ore St's, viewing numbers go THRU THE ROOF, and if the ACC has Clemson, North Carolina, FSU, Miami leave and starts to fall apart.

If things like that happen, THEN YOU GO ASK BIG 12, ACC again.

You don't ask so soon again like Scott Barnes did, unless you don't think everything is fine, unless your concerned, etc.

That said, I would want Anne McCoy to do the same, and am disappointed, don't get why Anne McCoy didnt follow Scott Barnes example and also ask Big 12, ACC again.

If 1 of them ask Big 12, ACC again, both should ask again, even if they are just going to be told no again upon asking so soon after the other times that asked.

 

[mikalalas]

View embedded media

This is the sort of advertising, marketing, tooting your own horn, that the PAC 12 should have been doing AD NAUSEUM in people's faces NONSTOP.

Glad its being done now, but its a little late.

If PAC 12 had done this earlier, a lot, etc, they might have gotten a better 2026 media deal, etc, and other things, etc.

 

[PeteTheChop]

WSU/Ore St/PAC 2 ALREADY TRIED TO JOIN THE BIG 12, ACC.


They were told NO, NO, NO, NO, NO by BOTH of the Big 12 EACH TIME.


So NO REASON TO ASK AGAIN UNLESS:


1. SOMETHING CHANGED.

1A. NOTHING HAS CHANGED, AND NOT ENOUGH TIME HAS PASSED

2. PANIC, DESPERATION, YOUR SCARED, WORRIED, CONCERNED that either your going to end up in a BAD situation in PAC 12, OR that the PAC 12 MIGHT NOT GET 8TH FOOTBALL MEMBER, MEDIA DEAL in time, and that the PAC 12 might die because of that, and you DONT WANT TO BE CAUGHT HOLDING THE BAG AGAIN, HOMELESS, ETC.


Now of course I would want Anne McCoy to do the same as Scott Barnes for the same reasons as Scott Barnes, in order to not be the only one left holding the bag, homeless, if, if, if the PAC 12 were to die, not get media deal, not get 8th football member.


But IF EVERYTHING IS FINE. There is no need, reason to go ask Big 12, ACC again, because WILL BE TOLD NO NO NO AGAIN in the SHORT TERM, SHORT TERM, UNLESS, UNTIL something important changes, and until 3,4,5,6 years pass, when, if THE PAC 12 IS, HAS DONE, DOING AWESOME(PAC 12 CHAMP WENT TO CFP(WSU OR ORE ST), and if WSU's and Ore St's, viewing numbers go THRU THE ROOF, and if the ACC has Clemson, North Carolina, FSU, Miami leave and starts to fall apart.

If things like that happen, THEN YOU GO ASK BIG 12, ACC again.

You don't ask so soon again like Scott Barnes did, unless you don't think everything is fine, unless your concerned, etc.

That said, I would want Anne McCoy to do the same, and am disappointed, don't get why Anne McCoy didnt follow Scott Barnes example and also ask Big 12, ACC again.

If 1 of them ask Big 12, ACC again, both should ask again, even if they are just going to be told no again upon asking so soon after the other times that asked.

If the SEC and Big Ten expanded to roughly 24 teams via an implosion of the ACC, the Big 12 could follow and WSU, OSU, Boise State, San Diego State and UNLV my well be on the list of candidates

 

[PeteTheChop]

If PAC 12 had done this earlier, a lot, etc, they might have gotten a better 2026 media deal, etc, and other things, etc.

Mik, what's your educated guess for the AAV from the new media deal Theresa is negotiating?

The Big XII's agreement is about $31.7M annually might be a good measuring stick for the new commissoner

 

[mikalalas]

Mik, what's your educated guess for the AAV from the new media deal Theresa is negotiating?

The Big XII's agreement is about $31.7M annually might be a good measuring stick for the new commissoner

Worst case predictions are about 8 mil per team, per year(NOT BLOODY DAMN LIKELY, since ESPN, CW, etc, did the 2025 deal at about(expected by all the experts), 7.5 mil each for WSU, Ore St.)

Average predictions are about 9.5/10 mil per team per year.

Best case predictions is about 11.5/12/12.5 mil per team per year.

Since just WSU, Ore St likely got about 7.5 mil each for 2025, then its likely the PAC 12 will get a lot better then that.

If the PAC 12 had been tooting its horn like in Dave's post, earlier, a lot, etc, then the PAC 12 either would have either gotten about 13/13.5 mil per team per year, or might have gotten Memphis, Tulane, USF, and then gotten about 13.5/14/14.5/15 mil per team per year.

So Teresa's failure to Toot PAC 12's horn earlier like in Dave's post, might have cost the PAC 12 a bigger, better 2026 media deal.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Mik, would you rather see WSU in the Big 12 or a rebuilt Pac 12 -- no matter who is the 8th football member?

Would you be upset if Ann McCoy was using her connections and pulling some strings in an effort to get WSU a spot in the Big 12?

Mik, what's your educated guess for the AAV from the new media deal Theresa is negotiating?

The Big XII's agreement is about $31.7M annually might be a good measuring stick for the new commissoner

I spit my coffee out when I read this. Anne McCoy has no connections and no strings to pull. I doubt the Big-12 folks would even pick up the phone if she called.

And what are you saying about the Big-12's contract? That the Pac-? should be shooting for that kind of money? C'mon buddy.

Finally, there is no "h" in Teresa. And who is "the new commissioner"? Her?

 

[425cougfan]

I really don't know what to expect this year. 6-6 with a berth in the Whatever Bowl seems reasonable.

Long-term, my expectation, fear, whatever, is that WSU will basically return to form in the new Pac. Poorly supported and funded, because that's WSU has always been, and honestly there is no reason to think otherwise. We're far enough away from the FOB and stadium remodel that other schools are catching up (CSU has a pretty neat stadium, BSU is at least trying, sans the awful turf SDSU seems to have a good facility, OSU is ahead of us). We'll have ups and downs, and hopefully the ups will be memorable.

Worst case predictions are about 8 mil per team, per year(NOT BLOODY DAMN LIKELY, since ESPN, CW, etc, did the 2025 deal at about(expected by all the experts), 7.5 mil each for WSU, Ore St.)

Average predictions are about 9.5/10 mil per team per year.

Best case predictions is about 11.5/12/12.5 mil per team per year.

Since just WSU, Ore St likely got about 7.5 mil each for 2025, then its likely the PAC 12 will get a lot better then that.

If the PAC 12 had been tooting its horn like in Dave's post, earlier, a lot, etc, then the PAC 12 either would have either gotten about 13/13.5 mil per team per year, or might have gotten Memphis, Tulane, USF, and then gotten about 13.5/14/14.5/15 mil per team per year.

So Teresa's failure to Toot PAC 12's horn earlier like in Dave's post, might have cost the PAC 12 a bigger, better 2026 media deal.

Why do you think Mountain West schools being added would make the per-team amount larger? It's the other way around. Doesn't mean they won't get more, but WSU and Oregon State were, in theory, the former P5 big dogs. Utah State and Colorado State certainly were not. Boise got about half the money in its former deal. SDSU, Colorado State, and Utah State got substantially less.

 

[longtimecoug]

Mik, what's your educated guess for the AAV from the new media deal Theresa is negotiating?

The Big XII's agreement is about $31.7M annually might be a good measuring stick for the new commissoner

It wont be close to that

 

[CougSinceBirth]

It wont be close to that

If they get the swap of the two numbers in 31m ($13.7m), I would be surprised.

 

[Dave_86]

Gloria Nevarez is not having a good day.

According to everyone's favorite swimsuit magazine, Boise State has officially given notice of their intentions.

Boise State gives formal notice to leave Mountain West for Pac-12

Note: I have not been able to find any official press releases from any of these schools' website about their leaving the MWC for the PAC-12. But three different media outlets have now published articles about 3 different schools leaving the MWC for the PAC-12.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Gloria Nevarez is not having a good day.

According to everyone's favorite swimsuit magazine, Boise State has officially given notice of their intentions.

Boise State gives formal notice to leave Mountain West for Pac-12

Note: I have not been able to find any official press releases from any of these schools' website about their leaving the MWC for the PAC-12. But three different media outlets have now published articles about 3 different schools leaving the MWC for the PAC-12.

Wait - are you eating shrooms today there Dave? You started this thread 27 hours ago with exactly the same information. I know this board can lead to mental issues, but I don't blame it for my dementia.

And every day of Gloria's life would improve if she hired me as her gardener/house/pool keeper etc.

 

[Stretch 74]

Wait - are you eating shrooms today there Dave? You started this thread 27 hours ago with exactly the same information. I know this board can lead to mental issues, but I don't blame it for my dementia.

And every day of Gloria's life would improve if she hired me as her gardener/house/pool keeper etc.

I think she would hire you as "The Gimp". You would be good in that capacity.

(Pulp Fiction and Breakfast Club obscure references)

 

[Dave_86]

Was hoping to find articles from a Logan, Utah (Utah State) and Fort Collins (Colorado State) newspaper on those two schools giving official notice to leave the MWC, but nothing was published. Here's a small bit from Jon Wilner:

Jon Wilner on the 5 schools giving notice

I've copied the portion of the Wilner article that covers the 5 schools giving notice below:

5. New Pac-12 schools give departure notice to the Mountain West

Nitty gritty: Boise State, Colorado State, Fresno State, San Diego State and Utah State on Saturday informed the Mountain West of their planned exit on July 1, 2026.

Why it matters: While a formality in many regards, the official notice, as reported by the San Diego Union-Tribune, is worth noting for the public record.

The quintet moved on May 31 in order to beat the June 1 deadline that would have marked a doubling of the exit fees, from $18 million to $36 million, based on Mountain West policy.

For all the scuttlebutt on social media that the schools might be pondering a merger between the new Pac-12 and the new Mountain West, the development helps underscore a point overlooked by many fans: The five schools are leaving, in large part, to disassociate themselves competitively from the bottom of the conference.

Strength-of-schedule matters immensely in the era of the expanded CFP, which features an automatic bid for the best team outside the Power Four conferences.

In most years, the champion of the rebuilt Pac-12 should have an excellent chance to reach the playoff. That would not necessarily be the case if the bottom half of the Mountain West were part of the conference.

The same strategy holds for NCAA Tournament at-large bids.

It’s not just about more media revenue. It’s about creating a higher standard of competition to widen the path into the CFP and March Madness.

 

[Coug90]

Mik, would you rather see WSU in the Big 12 or a rebuilt Pac 12 -- no matter who is the 8th football member?

Would you be upset if Ann McCoy was using her connections and pulling some strings in an effort to get WSU a spot in the Big 12?

Are we still hanging on to this hope? I was one of the ones who was but I’ve resigned to the fact that the P12 is basically the new MWC.

 

[mikalalas]

Are we still hanging on to this hope? I was one of the ones who was but I’ve resigned to the fact that the P12 is basically the new MWC.

PAC 12 is, will be, is the 5th best football conference in America once it gets its 8th football team.

MWC was NEVER the 5th best football conference in America.

The AAC was the 5th best football conference in America

So the PAC 12 is NOT a MWC 2.0.

The PAC 12 is a AAC 2.0, semi hybrid G5, P5, 5th best conference behind SEC, Big 10, Big 12, ACC, and Dave's post about PAC 12 FACTS above PROVES IT.

That said, your right that PAC 12 is probably NOT going to merge, join with either of ACC/Big 12, unless one of those 2 get raided, and need to backfill, and even then it might not happen, etc.

 

[Coug90]

PAC 12 is, will be, is the 5th best football conference in America once it gets its 8th football team.

MWC was NEVER the 5th best football conference in America.

The AAC was the 5th best football conference in America

So the PAC 12 is NOT a MWC 2.0.

The PAC 12 is a AAC 2.0, semi hybrid G5, P5, 5th best conference behind SEC, Big 10, Big 12, ACC, and Dave's post about PAC 12 FACTS above PROVES IT.

That said, your right that PAC 12 is probably NOT going to merge, join with either of ACC/Big 12, unless one of those 2 get raided, and need to backfill, and even then it might not happen, etc.

Survive till 2030. Everything is going to change again at that point.

 

[95coug]

Are we still hanging on to this hope? I was one of the ones who was but I’ve resigned to the fact that the P12 is basically the new MWC.

This is, and always has been, a pipe dream. It should have been abundantly and immediately clear that the Big 12 wants nothing to do with OSU and WSU, when they had the opportunity to pick us up along with UA, ASU, and Utah but chose not to.

The Big 12 has their current deal because they have a footprint in some significant markets (Denver, Phoenix, Dallas, Houston, plus Utah and Houston give them the Mormon market). It's not because they have any particularly significant programs. That conference will stagnate through the next round of realignment and media deal - they're not going to get anything better unless they snatch up more markets. And, their only chance of that is if the ACC implodes (which looks less likely in the near future) or if the Big 10 and SEC release teams (which isn't happening until the next contract cycle). Either way, WSU and OSU don't bring market to the table, and aren't going to be an attractive option, unless they're needed to even out the schedule and will do it at a discount.

 

[Coug90]

This is, and always has been, a pipe dream. It should have been abundantly and immediately clear that the Big 12 wants nothing to do with OSU and WSU, when they had the opportunity to pick us up along with UA, ASU, and Utah but chose not to.

The Big 12 has their current deal because they have a footprint in some significant markets (Denver, Phoenix, Dallas, Houston, plus Utah and Houston give them the Mormon market). It's not because they have any particularly significant programs. That conference will stagnate through the next round of realignment and media deal - they're not going to get anything better unless they snatch up more markets. And, their only chance of that is if the ACC implodes (which looks less likely in the near future) or if the Big 10 and SEC release teams (which isn't happening until the next contract cycle). Either way, WSU and OSU don't bring market to the table, and aren't going to be an attractive option, unless they're needed to even out the schedule and will do it at a discount.

We absolutely do. To the tune of a better market than most of the current B12 including several (maybe every?) school they brought in. The Seattle market is WSUs as well and the numbers don’t lie, WSU has been drawing eyeballs to TV sets for years.

It wasn’t a pipe dream at all. It should have been a no brainer. We just had the worst F’n salesman on the planet (thank you again Kirk) representing WSU when (and before) shit started hitting the fan.

 

[95coug]

We absolutely do. To the tune of a better market than most of the current B12 including several (maybe every?) school they brought in. The Seattle market is WSUs as well and the numbers don’t lie, WSU has been drawing eyeballs to TV sets for years.

It wasn’t a pipe dream at all. It should have been a no brainer. We just had the worst F’n salesman on the planet (thank you again Kirk) representing WSU when (and before) shit started hitting the fan.

That's the view through the crimson colored glasses. Looking at it the way the network, media, and advertising people do, our market (the Spokane market) is insignificant, and there's no model that shows reliably what we pull outside of that. They see that we were above the middle in the Pac-12 for viewership, and they explain that by saying our draw was our opponents, or it was Mike Leach, or it was some other thing that fits their model. And unfortunately, last year's viewership numbers provide confirmation of that bias. In 2023, as a full Pac-12 school, we were #43 in viewership - 7th in the Pac-12 - at 1.08M per game (which was down from previous years), right alongside Navy, West Virginia, and Kentucky. In 2024, we plummeted to 70th, with 389K per game, comparable to Marshall, Maryland, and South Florida.

Oregon State went from #20, with 1.74M, to #52 with 609K.

I know that part of the viewership issue in 2024 was the crap network deal we had, but that doesn't matter to the execs. They look at the numbers, they see mediocre viewership, and they assume that's what the team draws. The fact that we both dropped roughly the same percentage of our audience (~64%) is further confirmation of the bias. They proved that's what they think by not picking us up again in 2025.

It's not an accident that the only two Pac-12 games on ESPN are both Beaver games. They had higher numbers, they're closer to the Portland market. Those are the things that go into the calculation. We don't fit their model for media value. They don't know how to quantify what our value is, so they assume it's low. And, there's really no way to convince them otherwise, because no significant network is going to pick us up until the proof is in hand.

 

[PeteTheChop]

It's not an accident that the only two Pac-12 games on ESPN are both Beaver games. They had higher numbers, they're closer to the Portland market. Those are the things that go into the calculation. We don't fit their model for media value. They don't know how to quantify what our value is, so they assume it's low. And, there's really no way to convince them otherwise, because no significant network is going to pick us up until the proof is in hand.

Interesting perspective, thanks 95.

Is it fair to say OSU's ratings benefited from games against CFP teams Oregon and Boise State (both on FOX), an ex-Pac-12 team in Cal (ESPN2) plus Purdue from the Big Ten.

Meanwhile, WSU got a Big Ten bottom feeder in UW and middling Texas Tech on FOX with the Boise State broadcast relegated to FS1 and no other power conference opponents?

How are those TV ratings if you flip WSU'S and OSU's schedules and broadcast partners for the key games?

 

[PeteTheChop]

We absolutely do. To the tune of a better market than most of the current B12 including several (maybe every?) school they brought in. The Seattle market is WSUs as well and the numbers don’t lie, WSU has been drawing eyeballs to TV sets for years.

It wasn’t a pipe dream at all. It should have been a no brainer. We just had the worst F’n salesman on the planet (thank you again Kirk) representing WSU when (and before) shit started hitting the fan.

Good points 90. I agree the WSU to the Big 12 is not DOA

One question for you: Could you see the Big 12 taking WSU and Gonzaga or would it be either/or?

There's been speculation in the past that the Big 12 commissioner (Yormart) is eyeing a hybrid model where he would bring in some non-football schools to add to his conference's strength/prestige in basketball. The Big East schools would be obvious targets in that scenario, but there were reports Yormart met to Gonzaga a few months back.

 

[95coug]

Interesting perspective, thanks 95.

Is it fair to say OSU's ratings benefited from games against CFP teams Oregon and Boise State (both on FOX), an ex-Pac-12 team in Cal (ESPN2) plus Purdue from the Big Ten.

Meanwhile, WSU got a Big Ten bottom feeder in UW and middling Texas Tech on FOX with the Boise State broadcast relegated to FS1 and no other power conference opponents?

How are those TV ratings if you flip WSU'S and OSU's schedules and broadcast partners for the key games?

Fox was no doubt a better and more accessible partner, and Oregon was likely a bigger draw. Boise State probably didn't make much difference as an opponent, especially early in the season...but facing them on Fox beats facing them on FS1.

Boise State isn't the draw that they want to believe, and that some people give them credit for. In 2023, they drew an average viewership of 338K. In their magical CFP season, their viewership swelled to...422K. They went from #74 to #66, and still lagged behind Colorado State (482K) and Northern Illinois (441K).

Realistically, OSU probably does get a bit of a bump from being near Portland, and they did have a more interesting schedule. In 2023, they benefited from playing 2 games that drew more than 4M viewers (against Oregon and UW). We had 1 - UW. In 2024, neither of us had any. With better matchups and higher profile networks, we certainly close the gap in viewership, I'm not sure if we flip the numbers.


Now, for the real glass-is-half-empty view about WSU viewership:
Our fan base sucks. For decades, attendance and viewing decisions have been made not based on when we play, but on who we play. People don't come to Pullman to see the Cougs play, they come to see the Cougs play Oregon. Or UW. Or USC. Look at the attendance numbers for the last 20 or 30 years. The sellouts and near-sellouts are almost entirely against those 3 teams. Not against Cal, not against ASU, and certainly not against Fresno State or Montana.

In 1997, we were 2 weeks from clinching the Rose Bowl, in the middle of what was undoubtedly our best season ever at that point, and the ticket office had to give away tickets for free to get a "sellout" against Stanford (the anonymous donor was just a story - there was no donor). If the tickets weren't free, people weren't coming to watch Stanford in November.

In 2018, again we were 2 weeks away from a possible Rose Bowl berth, we had played on Gameday, and we were 9-1, in what was undoubtedly our best season since 1997. 22,400 people showed up for the Arizona game (which was a hell of a game to watch, by the way - 55 points in the first half)

1992 was a pretty good season. 25,000 people showed up to watch Oregon. And then a week later, only 15,000 came out for ASU

Actually...decisions are made about when we play. People don't come in November, or on back to back weekends, or on Labor Day. Especially if it's not an interesting opponent.

As for the idea that we get the Seattle market too...sure we do. I know there are a lot of alumni there, but they're such rabid and dedicated fans that we couldn't even get them to fill the stadium when we played in Seattle. Even when we moved conference games there, they didn't show up unless we were playing Oregon (and then, how many of those were actually Oregon fans?).

We went to the Rose Bowl in 2003, and nobody showed up. Tickets were selling at 2 for the price of 1 outside the stadium.

The real reason our market value is hard to figure is because our fans will find any possible excuse not to go. They'll probably also find excuses not to turn on the TV.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Fox was no doubt a better and more accessible partner, and Oregon was likely a bigger draw. Boise State probably didn't make much difference as an opponent, especially early in the season...but facing them on Fox beats facing them on FS1.

Boise State isn't the draw that they want to believe, and that some people give them credit for. In 2023, they drew an average viewership of 338K. In their magical CFP season, their viewership swelled to...422K. They went from #74 to #66, and still lagged behind Colorado State (482K) and Northern Illinois (441K).

Realistically, OSU probably does get a bit of a bump from being near Portland, and they did have a more interesting schedule. In 2023, they benefited from playing 2 games that drew more than 4M viewers (against Oregon and UW). We had 1 - UW. In 2024, neither of us had any. With better matchups and higher profile networks, we certainly close the gap in viewership, I'm not sure if we flip the numbers.


Now, for the real glass-is-half-empty view about WSU viewership:
Our fan base sucks. For decades, attendance and viewing decisions have been made not based on when we play, but on who we play. People don't come to Pullman to see the Cougs play, they come to see the Cougs play Oregon. Or UW. Or USC. Look at the attendance numbers for the last 20 or 30 years. The sellouts and near-sellouts are almost entirely against those 3 teams. Not against Cal, not against ASU, and certainly not against Fresno State or Montana.

In 1997, we were 2 weeks from clinching the Rose Bowl, in the middle of what was undoubtedly our best season ever at that point, and the ticket office had to give away tickets for free to get a "sellout" against Stanford (the anonymous donor was just a story - there was no donor). If the tickets weren't free, people weren't coming to watch Stanford in November.

In 2018, again we were 2 weeks away from a possible Rose Bowl berth, we had played on Gameday, and we were 9-1, in what was undoubtedly our best season since 1997. 22,400 people showed up for the Arizona game (which was a hell of a game to watch, by the way - 55 points in the first half)

1992 was a pretty good season. 25,000 people showed up to watch Oregon. And then a week later, only 15,000 came out for ASU

Actually...decisions are made about when we play. People don't come in November, or on back to back weekends, or on Labor Day. Especially if it's not an interesting opponent.

As for the idea that we get the Seattle market too...sure we do. I know there are a lot of alumni there, but they're such rabid and dedicated fans that we couldn't even get them to fill the stadium when we played in Seattle. Even when we moved conference games there, they didn't show up unless we were playing Oregon (and then, how many of those were actually Oregon fans?).

We went to the Rose Bowl in 2003, and nobody showed up. Tickets were selling at 2 for the price of 1 outside the stadium.

The real reason our market value is hard to figure is because our fans will find any possible excuse not to go. They'll probably also find excuses not to turn on the TV.

Well aren't you the Negative Nancy today, 95? That said, everything you say is spot on. And funny that you know/remember the 1997 Stanford ticket giveaway correctly. That was kind of sad.

Hey I'm no better. Attended games as a student, had FB season tickets for 20 years, BB season tickets for 5-6. Gave to the Cougar Club (CAF), to the IPF, last year to the BB NIL fund (hah!). But I haven't been to a game since Gameday even though I'm 3 1/2 hours away. Other than the NIL donation, I haven't given a dime for a lot of years. What's the reason? What's the answer? I dunno either.

 

[COUGinNCW]

Fox was no doubt a better and more accessible partner, and Oregon was likely a bigger draw. Boise State probably didn't make much difference as an opponent, especially early in the season...but facing them on Fox beats facing them on FS1.

Boise State isn't the draw that they want to believe, and that some people give them credit for. In 2023, they drew an average viewership of 338K. In their magical CFP season, their viewership swelled to...422K. They went from #74 to #66, and still lagged behind Colorado State (482K) and Northern Illinois (441K).

Realistically, OSU probably does get a bit of a bump from being near Portland, and they did have a more interesting schedule. In 2023, they benefited from playing 2 games that drew more than 4M viewers (against Oregon and UW). We had 1 - UW. In 2024, neither of us had any. With better matchups and higher profile networks, we certainly close the gap in viewership, I'm not sure if we flip the numbers.


Now, for the real glass-is-half-empty view about WSU viewership:
Our fan base sucks. For decades, attendance and viewing decisions have been made not based on when we play, but on who we play. People don't come to Pullman to see the Cougs play, they come to see the Cougs play Oregon. Or UW. Or USC. Look at the attendance numbers for the last 20 or 30 years. The sellouts and near-sellouts are almost entirely against those 3 teams. Not against Cal, not against ASU, and certainly not against Fresno State or Montana.

In 1997, we were 2 weeks from clinching the Rose Bowl, in the middle of what was undoubtedly our best season ever at that point, and the ticket office had to give away tickets for free to get a "sellout" against Stanford (the anonymous donor was just a story - there was no donor). If the tickets weren't free, people weren't coming to watch Stanford in November.

In 2018, again we were 2 weeks away from a possible Rose Bowl berth, we had played on Gameday, and we were 9-1, in what was undoubtedly our best season since 1997. 22,400 people showed up for the Arizona game (which was a hell of a game to watch, by the way - 55 points in the first half)

1992 was a pretty good season. 25,000 people showed up to watch Oregon. And then a week later, only 15,000 came out for ASU

Actually...decisions are made about when we play. People don't come in November, or on back to back weekends, or on Labor Day. Especially if it's not an interesting opponent.

As for the idea that we get the Seattle market too...sure we do. I know there are a lot of alumni there, but they're such rabid and dedicated fans that we couldn't even get them to fill the stadium when we played in Seattle. Even when we moved conference games there, they didn't show up unless we were playing Oregon (and then, how many of those were actually Oregon fans?).

We went to the Rose Bowl in 2003, and nobody showed up. Tickets were selling at 2 for the price of 1 outside the stadium.

The real reason our market value is hard to figure is because our fans will find any possible excuse not to go. They'll probably also find excuses not to turn on the TV.

I think part of the reason the Seattle market tuned in was because we were in the same conference as uw, not because of a massive number of WSU fans.

 

[Coug90]

Good points 90. I agree the WSU to the Big 12 is not DOA

One question for you: Could you see the Big 12 taking WSU and Gonzaga or would it be either/or?

There's been speculation in the past that the Big 12 commissioner (Yormart) is eyeing a hybrid model where he would bring in some non-football schools to add to his conference's strength/prestige in basketball. The Big East schools would be obvious targets in that scenario, but there were reports Yormart met to Gonzaga a few months back.

In my opinion either/or certainly don’t think there’s any package deal. The B12 is gonna pluck who they see fit. Yeah I understand Yormark likes BBall, so I can see Gonzaga being attractive to them.

I still say it’s alive as long as we have someone in place who’s not a complete pile of shit selling WSU. In hindsight I can’t imagine a worse option than Schultz, he might as well have been trying to bury the university.

And yes, we are the other Seattle market team. Spokane is not the market. It shouldn’t have taken all that much convincing to have the B12 scoop us up the first time.

 

[Coug90]

I think part of the reason the Seattle market tuned in was because we were in the same conference as uw, not because of a massive number of WSU fans.

Most Cougs come from Seattle and most Coug grads end up back in Seattle. While UW does have a chunk of fans because they live there and have no ties to the university. Probably to a much lesser extent same with Spokane and the Cougs.