Thoughts on visiting KU vs WSU

[wazzucougs96]

I'm seeing a lot more articles about student debt and awareness is higher than it's ever been.

Whole 'nother topic, but my belief is that injecting more money into the system via gov involvement only creates a bigger pool of cash for bad actors to get in on the grift, like we've seen with administrative bloat, crazy tenure and pension arrangements and more. EconTalk podcast has talked a lot recently about how this has happened in health care. But again, completely separate topic.

Unfortunately one of the byproducts of cost cutting at universities is employment for professors. No one entering the field is offered actual FTE anymore, they are just contractors. No pension, no retirement plans, no health plans, etc.

I expect you'll see a brain drain in academia as a result over the next 20 years.

As for pumping money, at least with federal or state tax dollars used to help fund the schools you can mandate what it is used for. By simply guaranteeing unlimited student loans that are given out with little to no application or credit review process, the money can be freely used on whatever the school wants. They can then raise the costs and students simply borrow more money.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

I got an $84k 6 Series two years ago that was a few years old for $34k. It's continuing to depreciate, but thankfully the rate has slowed down a bit and I haven't had any major issues with it. German cars are beautiful and a blast to drive, IMO, but nobody wants to hold them off warranty.

Color me jealous. I was shopping a year and a half before that and the 6 series was too much. I paid about $5k more for my car than the equivalent one year newer car a year later. The current infatuation with SUV's and crossovers has gutted the value of sedans when compared to 2016. The 2014 640i xDrive Gran Coupe's that were close to $50k when I was looking are available for around $25k now. The above comments about the financial stupidity of buying cars is absolutely relevant when it comes to BMW's, but I'm still glad that I did it though. Agree on the warranty. My extended warranty ends next October....

 

[chipdouglas]

Who pays 9%? But I digress.

Yes, I agree. My truck was a rental with 10k miles, $40k truck for $29k.

Lots of people

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

The financial implications there are staggering. Since missing a payment or being late 1 payment (from what I hear) can mean a 100 pt hit...

 

[Stretch 74]

I took my daughter to visit the University of Kansas on "Rock Chalk Day" yesterday. Not that anyone cares, but had a few observations.

1) The WSU campus had a lot better vibe in January than KU had. More students out doing student things. The sprawling nature of the KU campus means that students just kind of stay in their spots. The student union building is 1.2 miles from the main dorm area.

2) All this crap you hear about "college towns" is just that. Lawrence is a nice enough town, but with a population of 100,000, you can't even tell that the University of Kansas is in the same city once you get about 1/2 mile away from the campus. It is not a "college town". Manhattan, Kansas is a lot more like Pullman, but in my mind, Pullman is the definitive "college town".

3) We are losing the facility war in engineering in a big way. My daughter is looking at chemical engineering and that department is now housed in an old Vet Med "hand me down" building halfway across campus from the rest of the engineering buildings. KU has built a huge new complex of interconnected buildings that houses all of the disciplines.

4) WSU needs to do a better job on the housing front. KU has rooms set aside at 4-5 dorms for visitors to view. When I went to WSU last month with my daughter, we were told that WSU doesn't have even a single room in Streit-Perham for prospective students to visit. That was a minor differentiator for my daughter that may drive her to KU.

5) I haven't been to a lot of campuses, but we are very lucky to have the campus we have. Notre Dame is the only university that I've been to where I was truly amazed with the campus in comparison to WSU Pullman. Other campuses have their good points, but bias or not, I really love the Pullman campus. My daughter will not be saying the same about KU. They have a stretch of pretty cool buildings on one road...and great engineering facilities, but the feel of the campus is pretty much, "meh". If it was just about the campus....she'd be a Coug.

At this moment in time, facilities and in-state tuition have her leaning towards KU. Between college savings and scholarships, she won't have to borrow a penny to pay for her college tuition if she stays in-state. Even at $44,000 off with a WUE scholarship and our savings, she'll have to borrow $30k to attend WSU. I'm a little bummed....but gas to go visit here will be cheaper if she doesn't change her mind.

*****************

I assume that your $30,000 figure is what she will need for four years, to augment scholarships, summer and part time jobs, etc. If she comes out like that with an engineering degree, she will be in decent shape, IMO. I was lucky enough to come out in 1975 after five years only owing ~$700, most of which was due to purchasing stereo equipment the last two years. And I DID own a car for the last four years. I did that by working odd jobs as a kid, working in the fields in summer, summer job at a refinery in college, and different part time jobs during school in Pullman. Plus I had a scholarship for my undergrad years. My parents paid only $400 during freshman year and then bought me a $1,000 car that summer and said I was now on my own. I was able to make it work.

Make sure your daughter understands that it is much more important what goes on in the building than how the building looks. Don't be like the HS athletes that get wowed by all the bling in the Oregon locker rooms. The education and the college experience will be more valuable to her in the long run.

In my career in Facilities at Boeing, I had the opportunity to work with a LOT of engineers (electrical, mechanical, structural, civil, and architects) and the WSU engineers took a back seat to nobody. They were all good people and good engineers. Best engineer I dealt with was a Coug (electrical, with his PE). They had a good reputation and made good money. Dumbest engineering question I ever had was from a husky. I had submitted a technical scope of work for installation of 500 ton press, which included utilities and a foundation. Now the 500 ton press clearly refers to the amount of pressure the equipment is capable of applying, but this husky came over and asked me if it really weighed 500 tons! It would be funny if he hadn't been so dumb.

Not sure what WSU is offering legacy kids today, but a college roommate's daughter got a huge discount in tuition as the daughter of an alumni. Not sure if it was allowing instate rates for a Montana resident or what exactly, but it was VERY substantial. You probably know about those things already, but if not you need to look into it.

Comment on Chip's chart posted elsewhere about the right in personal debt related to student loans-interesting how the amount started to shoot up right about the time the government took over the entire student loan program.

Couple other thoughts on student debt.......I remember all the really cheap stuff we ate to save money while going to school. Tuna casserole, macaroni and ketchup, drink syrup from Warehouse foods mixed 5 or 6 to 1 instead of 3 to 1, powdered milk, PB&J sandwiches, and so on. Compare that to a uw law student that was in a Times story years ago complaining about student debt. In the story it turned out that she had an expensive car and got two drinks a day at Starbucks. How stupid is that to do and then complain about your big debt?

Finally, the Spokesman did a story a year or so back about increasing costs for college. IIRC, they discussed WSU, Eastern, maybe Gonzaga and uw, not sure about Central. Anyway, what was astonishing was the tremendous increase in administration costs and personnel over a relatively short period of time, 10, 15, maybe 20 years. It seemed like the numbers of students may have increased by 10% while the admin costs about doubled! I was shocked, to say the least. It was pointed out that a significant factor was the starting of the WSU medical school, but that certainly does not excuse all of it.

BTW, we are VERY proud of our niece who is a charter member of the Elson Floyd Medical School! She is in her third year, first year on site at the Tri Cities Facility.

Go Cougs, and best of luck to your daughter!

 

[kayak15]

All this financial planning.

Just marry rich.

Problems solved.

Old warning: Marry for money and then expect to work hard earning it.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

*****************

I assume that your $30,000 figure is what she will need for four years, to augment scholarships, summer and part time jobs, etc. If she comes out like that with an engineering degree, she will be in decent shape, IMO. I was lucky enough to come out in 1975 after five years only owing ~$700, most of which was due to purchasing stereo equipment the last two years. And I DID own a car for the last four years. I did that by working odd jobs as a kid, working in the fields in summer, summer job at a refinery in college, and different part time jobs during school in Pullman. Plus I had a scholarship for my undergrad years. My parents paid only $400 during freshman year and then bought me a $1,000 car that summer and said I was now on my own. I was able to make it work.

Make sure your daughter understands that it is much more important what goes on in the building than how the building looks. Don't be like the HS athletes that get wowed by all the bling in the Oregon locker rooms. The education and the college experience will be more valuable to her in the long run.

In my career in Facilities at Boeing, I had the opportunity to work with a LOT of engineers (electrical, mechanical, structural, civil, and architects) and the WSU engineers took a back seat to nobody. They were all good people and good engineers. Best engineer I dealt with was a Coug (electrical, with his PE). They had a good reputation and made good money. Dumbest engineering question I ever had was from a husky. I had submitted a technical scope of work for installation of 500 ton press, which included utilities and a foundation. Now the 500 ton press clearly refers to the amount of pressure the equipment is capable of applying, but this husky came over and asked me if it really weighed 500 tons! It would be funny if he hadn't been so dumb.

Not sure what WSU is offering legacy kids today, but a college roommate's daughter got a huge discount in tuition as the daughter of an alumni. Not sure if it was allowing instate rates for a Montana resident or what exactly, but it was VERY substantial. You probably know about those things already, but if not you need to look into it.

Comment on Chip's chart posted elsewhere about the right in personal debt related to student loans-interesting how the amount started to shoot up right about the time the government took over the entire student loan program.

Couple other thoughts on student debt.......I remember all the really cheap stuff we ate to save money while going to school. Tuna casserole, macaroni and ketchup, drink syrup from Warehouse foods mixed 5 or 6 to 1 instead of 3 to 1, powdered milk, PB&J sandwiches, and so on. Compare that to a uw law student that was in a Times story years ago complaining about student debt. In the story it turned out that she had an expensive car and got two drinks a day at Starbucks. How stupid is that to do and then complain about your big debt?

Finally, the Spokesman did a story a year or so back about increasing costs for college. IIRC, they discussed WSU, Eastern, maybe Gonzaga and uw, not sure about Central. Anyway, what was astonishing was the tremendous increase in administration costs and personnel over a relatively short period of time, 10, 15, maybe 20 years. It seemed like the numbers of students may have increased by 10% while the admin costs about doubled! I was shocked, to say the least. It was pointed out that a significant factor was the starting of the WSU medical school, but that certainly does not excuse all of it.

BTW, we are VERY proud of our niece who is a charter member of the Elson Floyd Medical School! She is in her third year, first year on site at the Tri Cities Facility.

Go Cougs, and best of luck to your daughter!

The alumni association has a $5000 legacy scholarship for freshmen. The WUE scholarship is $11,000 for up to four years for out of state students. The big deal will be if my daughter can get her Math ACT score a little higher. She's already qualified for the 2nd tier scholarship at KU based on her ACT as a sophomore but if she can get it a couple points higher it doubles the scholarship. That scholarship can be as high as $5,000 per year and it's an automatic award with the right score. When we met with the WSU financial aid people last month, they told us that they don't have any scholarships like that but that she would be automatically entered into all of the scholarships that are available to see what happens. I agree 100% that a lot of the current student debt problem is self created. I know of people that bought motorcycles with their student loan money.......

 

[Observer11]

The alumni association has a $5000 legacy scholarship for freshmen. The WUE scholarship is $11,000 for up to four years for out of state students. The big deal will be if my daughter can get her Math ACT score a little higher. She's already qualified for the 2nd tier scholarship at KU based on her ACT as a sophomore but if she can get it a couple points higher it doubles the scholarship. That scholarship can be as high as $5,000 per year and it's an automatic award with the right score. When we met with the WSU financial aid people last month, they told us that they don't have any scholarships like that but that she would be automatically entered into all of the scholarships that are available to see what happens. I agree 100% that a lot of the current student debt problem is self created. I know of people that bought motorcycles with their student loan money.......

Motorcycles are pretty cool.