TX State sounds like the pick

[mikalalas]

To be fair, the vast majority of Cougar fans suck ass when it comes to supporting the program. I donate peanuts to WSU and its enough to put me in the upper half of donors. We win online voting polls but we suck at ponying up money to support WSU. WSU killed WSU. The leadership of the school has been mediocre for most of the past three decades too...but our fans expend more time making excuses about why it's tough to be a fan than any group I've ever seen. Cyclone fans went over 100 years without a 10 win season but they dragged their asses all over the country at the first hint of success.

It's gotten so bad that I now get great seats to WSU away games ever since Leach left because everyone spends their time bitching instead of supporting the team. We deserve our fate.

Now, to be fair, there is a core group of great fans that are truly devoted and better than any of us....but 95% of Coug fans blow.

While what you said is true about coug fans, what you said about WSU leadership is the most true.

And out of all the leaders, the damnable BOARD OF REGENTS, and WA governors, state congressman are the most to blame because its the BOARD OF REGENTS that CONSISTENTLY HIRE BAD PRESIDENTS, THAT CONSISTENTLY HIRE BAD AD'S AND DONT PAY THEM ENOUGH, THAT CONSISTENTLY HIRE BAD COACHES, AND DO NOT PAY THEM ENOUGH, AND THAT WHEN, IF DO HIRE A GOOD COACH, DONT PAY THEM ENOUGH, SO THAT THEY USE WSU AS A STEPPING STONE(See Erickson, Price, Leach)

And the BOARD OF REGENTS, STATE CONGRESS, WA GOVERNORS GIVE WAY MORE MONEY, TAX DOLLARS TO UW HUSKIES ATHLETIC PROGRAM, THEN TO WSU'S ATHLETIC PROGRAM.

IF THE BOARD OF REGENTS, STATE CONGRESSMEN, WA GOVERNORS DIDNT DO THAT, AND DID THE OPPOSITE AND GAVE MORE, ENOUGH MONEY TO WSU'S ATHLETIC PROGRAM, AT LEAST AS MUCH AS GIVEN TO UW'S ATHLETIC PROGRAM, AND THEN HIRE GOOD PRESIDENTS, and then have the WSU PRESIDENTS HIRE GOOD AD'S AND PAY THEM ENOUGH, and have the AD'S HIRE GOOD COACHES, and PAY THEM ENOUGH, so that they DONT USE WSU AS A STEPPING STONE, and then IF WSU starts having CONSISTENT SUCCESS, WINNING GAMES, BOWLS, CHAMPIONSHIPS, ESPN GAMEDAYS, CFP's, CONSISTENTLY, then the WSU coug fans will goto more games, watch more WSU cougs on TV more, DONATE TO THE WSU CAF MORE, DONATE TO WSU NIL COLLECTIVE MORE, which will help WSU continue to get better AD'S, and better HC's and better recruits, players, teams, that will CONSISTENTLY HAVE EVEN MORE CONSISTENT SUCCESS, which will cause WSU coug fans to goto games more, watch cougs on TV more, DONATE MORE, RINSE, WASH, REPEAT.

IT ALL STARTS AT THE TOP, WITH THE STATE LEADERS, BOARD OF REGENTS, and WORKS ITS WAY DOWN ALL THE WAY TO COUG FANS.

THE STATE LEADERSHIP, BOARD OF REGENTS ARE THE MOST TO BLAME. THE BLAME, BUCK IS AT, ON THE EXTREME, VERY TOP.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

To be fair, the vast majority of Cougar fans suck ass when it comes to supporting the program. I donate peanuts to WSU and its enough to put me in the upper half of donors.

Now, to be fair, there is a core group of great fans that are truly devoted and better than any of us....but 95% of Coug fans blow.

Realistically, it's a descending spiral. Our numbers weren't good enough to land a media deal with a network that has wide viewership. So, we move to channels that people can't find, don't get, and/or aren't part of typical packages. So our viewership falls even more...so we get fewer games with wider exposure, and so on.

If we were entering the golden age of WSU football right now, , and thanks to the portal even our more devoted fans don’t know most of the names on the roster or what they look like on the field. Doesn’t bode well.

Good stuff here. I plead guilty to being among the 95%. Never mind my decades of support, I've sucked for 10+ years. Sorry, but it's not a lifetime commitment. Plus, Coors Light and women take up a lot of my discretionary budget. Gotta prioritize!

As far as the Golden Age, we have entered it! Like how my Dad went into the home in his Golden Age. Came out of it in a bag that I helped the funeral home guy zip up. That was Golden.

 

[Observer11]

On the one hand, adding an 8th member was a have-to-do. No sense waiting around.

On the other, the reason they had to add TX State was because all the more attractive schools were gone. In hindsight the MWC closed ranks faster and got their shit together before the Pac2 did.

UNLV. Air Force, UTEP and UNM all more prestigious and better programs than Texas F’ing State.

Every conference needs a doormat. Welcome to the PAC 12, Doormat State.

Unfortunately five years from now WSU is going to get the same greeting in the next game of musical chairs.

Downward spiral indeed.

 

[UberCougars]

To be fair, the vast majority of Cougar fans suck ass when it comes to supporting the program. I donate peanuts to WSU and its enough to put me in the upper half of donors. We win online voting polls but we suck at ponying up money to support WSU. WSU killed WSU. The leadership of the school has been mediocre for most of the past three decades too...but our fans expend more time making excuses about why it's tough to be a fan than any group I've ever seen. Cyclone fans went over 100 years without a 10 win season but they dragged their asses all over the country at the first hint of success.

It's gotten so bad that I now get great seats to WSU away games ever since Leach left because everyone spends their time bitching instead of supporting the team. We deserve our fate.

Now, to be fair, there is a core group of great fans that are truly devoted and better than any of us....but 95% of Coug fans blow.

Always blame the fans, ALWAYS!

 

[PeteTheChop]

On the one hand, adding an 8th member was a have-to-do. No sense waiting around.

On the other, the reason they had to add TX State was because all the more attractive schools were gone. In hindsight the MWC closed ranks faster and got their shit together before the Pac2 did.

UNLV. Air Force, UTEP and UNM all more prestigious and better programs than Texas F’ing State.

👍

Since UNLV (eyes on the Big XII and an outsized share of the MWC pie) and especially Air Force (Pac-12 not a good fit) were pretty much no-go's from the beginning and the media rights $$$ were never gonna be enough to poach Memphis/USF/Tulane, maybe Theresa Gold could've went in this direction with 9 (ideal) for football and 12 for basketball:

Cougs ✅
Beavs ✅
Boise St ✅
San Diego St ✅
Fresno St ✅
Colorado St ✅
New Mexico
Utah St ✅
Wyoming
Zags (Olympic sports)
St. Mary's (Olympic sports)
Grand Canyon (Olympic sports)

• Tight footprint
• All schools have enjoyed some level of success competing against schools from the top levels of D1
• Media market presence in SEA, POR, SF, SD, PHX, ABQ, Fresno, Boise and Spokane
• Good mix of Pacific and Mountain time zone schools for TV

 

[UberCougars]

👍

Since UNLV (eyes on the Big XII and an outsized share of the MWC pie) and especially Air Force (Pac-12 not a good fit) were pretty much no-go's from the beginning and the media rights $$$ were never gonna be enough to poach Memphis/USF/Tulane, maybe Theresa Gold could've went in this direction with 9 (ideal) for football and 12 for basketball:

Cougs ✅
Beavs ✅
Boise St ✅
San Diego St ✅
Fresno St ✅
Colorado St ✅
New Mexico
Utah St ✅
Wyoming
Zags (Olympic sports)
St. Mary's (Olympic sports)
Grand Canyon (Olympic sports)

• Tight footprint
• All schools have enjoyed some level of success competing against schools from the top levels of D1
• Media market presence in SEA, POR, SF, SD, PHX, ABQ, Fresno, Boise and Spokane
• Good mix of Pacific and Mountain time zone schools for TV

“If the deck chairs had been arranged better, the Titanic wouldn’t have sunk”

 

[PeteTheChop]

“If the deck chairs had been arranged better, the Titanic wouldn’t have sunk”

Just trying to stay afloat until the ACC collapses and the Big XII looks to expand further sometime between now and 2030.

The lifeboat will come for some Pac-12 schools, but not all

 

[PeteTheChop]

From Brand X last month:

For the Cougars, positioning for the next round begins with winning, and lots of it.

WSU president Betsy Cantwell told CougsFirst that WSU must get where it needs to be "pretty fast because the rest of the world is coming for us." She added, "This is a moment where we might have to compete more than we have ever competed before. We have got to compete and we've got to win. You'll hear me say that. It's not the only thing I'm focused on, but it is really true right now."

 

[CougSinceBirth]

Just trying to stay afloat until the ACC collapses and the Big XII looks to expand further sometime between now and 2030.

The lifeboat will come for some Pac-12 schools, but not all

That lifeboat is never coming.

 

[PeteTheChop]

That lifeboat is never coming.

So the BigXII will not add any other schools?

or

The Big XII will not bring in any schools from this next iteration of the Pac-12?

 

[95coug]

On the other, the reason they had to add TX State was because all the more attractive schools were gone. In hindsight the MWC closed ranks faster and got their shit together before the Pac2 did.

WSU president Betsy Cantwell told CougsFirst that WSU must get where it needs to be "pretty fast because the rest of the world is coming for us." She added, "This is a moment where we might have to compete more than we have ever competed before. We have got to compete and we've got to win. You'll hear me say that. It's not the only thing I'm focused on, but it is really true right now."

Problem is that the Pac-12 and WSU have not been known for looking down the road and getting their shit together - at least not since they hired Larry Scott. They let the market come to them too much and too often, and worse, they assumed that the market would continue coming to them. That’s how the pac-12 network flopped, how the Big-12 outmaneuvered them in the initial stages of realignment, it’s how the conference fell apart, and how they were outmaneuvered again by the G5 conferences when they were trying to rebuild.

Cantwell understates the issue. WSU doesn’t need to just compete. They need to be aggressive and get out in front of their circumstances. They need to be 5 moves ahead and angling for position in 2031, and have contingencies to stay ahead. But…I don’t see any indication that either WSU or the Pac-12 has anyone who knows how to do that. Anne McCoy is certainly not the aggressive, forward-thinking, risk taking type - and that’s what they need right now.

 

[mikalalas]

On the one hand, adding an 8th member was a have-to-do. No sense waiting around.

On the other, the reason they had to add TX State was because all the more attractive schools were gone. In hindsight the MWC closed ranks faster and got their shit together before the Pac2 did.

UNLV. Air Force, UTEP and UNM all more prestigious and better programs than Texas F’ing State.

Every conference needs a doormat. Welcome to the PAC 12, Doormat State.

Unfortunately five years from now WSU is going to get the same greeting in the next game of musical chairs.

Downward spiral indeed.

Hawai, Nevada, New Mexico, Wyoming, NIU, UTEP, SJSU, are NOT better then Texas St.

The ONLY MWC that still in MWC, that clearly better then Texas St, is UNLV, Airforce, and a big iffy semi maybe SJSU

 

[UberCougars]

Seems to me Cantwell states the obvious when she says “WSU must compete”. Everyone must compete.

I have not seen her acknowledge why WSU has thus far failed to compete effectively enough to stay even with former peers, nor have I seen a plan to outcompete her current peers to such a degree her former peers notice AND want to accept WSU back into the peer group.

 

[95coug]

So the BigXII will not add any other schools?

or

The Big XII will not bring in any schools from this next iteration of the Pac-12?

If the ACC comes apart, none of the new PAC-12 schools will be in the Big12’s top tier of targets. I think if that happens, the Big 12 will immediately target Duke, SMU, and UVA, and maybe Louisville. That solidifies footprint, gains them Dallas market share, and makes them the undisputed top basketball conference. Second tier is probably led by Cal and Stanford, just to get into the Bay market. If all that fails, maybe they look at Pac schools…but only if the viewership supports it. Sitting here today, none of the new Pac-12 schools have demonstrated enough viewership to justify inclusion - which should be obvious, since none even got a glance in the last 18 months.

 

[Observer11]

Problem is that the Pac-12 and WSU have not been known for looking down the road and getting their shit together - at least not since they hired Larry Scott. They let the market come to them too much and too often, and worse, they assumed that the market would continue coming to them. That’s how the pac-12 network flopped, how the Big-12 outmaneuvered them in the initial stages of realignment, it’s how the conference fell apart, and how they were outmaneuvered again by the G5 conferences when they were trying to rebuild.

Cantwell understates the issue. WSU doesn’t need to just compete. They need to be aggressive and get out in front of their circumstances. They need to be 5 moves ahead and angling for position in 2031, and have contingencies to stay ahead. But…I don’t see any indication that either WSU or the Pac-12 has anyone who knows how to do that. Anne McCoy is certainly not the aggressive, forward-thinking, risk taking type - and that’s what they need right now.

The problem was the Pac 12 Presidents acted like academic snobs instead of business people. Larry Scott should have been out on his ass multiple times - instead those idiots rewarded him with bigger contracts.

Cantwell came from outside academics so perhaps that is WSU's hail mary.

Fonzie McCoy is punching the clock until the pension kicks in. If Cantwell can't see that, she's as big a fool as the Larry Scott butt sniffers. Fonzie is probably a really nice lady but they better get someone in who can talk the talk with private equity or the like. Phil Knight ain't dropping out of the sky any time soon.

 

[mikalalas]

If the ACC comes apart, none of the new PAC-12 schools will be in the Big12’s top tier of targets. I think if that happens, the Big 12 will immediately target Duke, SMU, and UVA, and maybe Louisville. That solidifies footprint, gains them Dallas market share, and makes them the undisputed top basketball conference. Second tier is probably led by Cal and Stanford, just to get into the Bay market. If all that fails, maybe they look at Pac schools…but only if the viewership supports it. Sitting here today, none of the new Pac-12 schools have demonstrated enough viewership to justify inclusion - which should be obvious, since none even got a glance in the last 18 months.

If the ACC fails, loses 3,4,5,6 members, while the Big 12 might get Duke, etc, as you said, but Duke more likely would goto either the Big 10 or SEC.

Stanford, Cal, SMU might goto Big 12 at that point, or they might stay in ACC.

Either way, unless Big 12 is raided HARDCORE, and loses Oklahoma St, KSU, Texas Tech, Kansas, etc, then the Big 12 won't take any PAC 12 teams.

And as you said, if the Big 12, gets ACC teams, they obviously would not take any PAC 12 teams.

But even if the Big 12 didnt get any ACC teams, the Big 12 would not take any PAC 12 teams, and especially not WSU, unless the BIG 12 got HARDCORE raided and lost Oklahoma St, KSU, Texas Tech, Kansas, BYU, etc, their best programs, primarily because Arizona, Colorado, told the Big 12 not to take WSU.

Taking the PAC 12, and WSU, OSU, would be the Big 12"s Ultimate last resort. The Big 12 would take Memphis, Tulane, USF, BSU, over anyone else the PAC 12, if the Big 12 took anyone at all if the ACC either does not fall apart or the ACC left overs choose not to join Big 12.

If some of the ACC choose not to join the Big 12, if the Big 12 invites them, the ACC leftovers would backfill with #1 choice being BSU, #2 being Memphis #3 being Tulane, #4 being USF, #5 being either WSU or Ore St, #6 being either WSU or Ore St, #7 being Fresno St.

If the ACC does lose Duke to Big 10 or SEC, Louisville, Georgia Tech, Syracuse, CAL, SMU, Stanford join Big 12, then the 2,3,4 remaining members of the ACC, would probably either join the BIG LEAST EAST, or Join the PAC 12 under the PAC 12 brand name, or Merge, backfill into ACC, under the ACC name, or Merge, form a new conference called something like ACC PAC 12, and would then add Memphis, Tulane, USF, UNLV to that, and there would be the Big 10, SEC, Big 12, and the ACC PAC 12 as the 4 P4 conferences.

So probably the ACC is probably the most likely semi only hope for the PAC 12, WSU, Ore St, etc, not the Big 12.

 

[UberCougars]

The schools with the biggest revenues want to exclude the smaller schools from sharing in their bounty.

It appears to be a firm trend backed by actions.

Other than those schools who are being left behind, is there ONE source claiming Anyone from the Chosen Children Conference(CCC) want to lend a hand to those they feel are beneath them?

 

[CougSinceBirth]

So the BigXII will not add any other schools?

or

The Big XII will not bring in any schools from this next iteration of the Pac-12?

The Big XII may add more universities, but there's ~0% any of them will come from the new Pac-12. If they wanted to kill the P12 and add OSU and WSU this time around they had the option to. They didn't. WSU and OSU have zero leverage and the viewership numbers are only going to continue to tumble as fans give less of a sh*t. There's some that are content with a "regional" P12 but that's out the window with the addition of Texas State. That ain't regional at all.

WSU should quit pretending on athletics, double down on academics, and build their identity in that route.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

On the one hand, adding an 8th member was a have-to-do. No sense waiting around.

On the other, the reason they had to add TX State was because all the more attractive schools were gone. In hindsight the MWC closed ranks faster and got their shit together before the Pac2 did.

UNLV. Air Force, UTEP and UNM all more prestigious and better programs than Texas F’ing State.

Every conference needs a doormat. Welcome to the PAC 12, Doormat State.

Unfortunately five years from now WSU is going to get the same greeting in the next game of musical chairs.

Downward spiral indeed.

Texas State is a huge letdown and I would have rather have gotten UNLV without a doubt. Air Force would have been great but I think everyone that is objective knew that they aren't going anywhere unless it's into the same league as Navy and Army. We didn't get them for different reasons but we can't cry over spilt milk.

I'm going to call bullsh!t on UTEP and UNM when it comes to prestige. UTEP has been a boil on the nuts of a crustacean at the bottom of the ocean for decades. It's been 37 years since they've won 10 games and they haven't had any consistent success since the 40's and 50's. Nobody gives f#ck all about UTEP and there was no upside to bringing them in.

New Mexico is barely better but Albuequrque is the butt crack of the Southwest and the only good thing that's come out of that place is Breaking Bad and maybe some above average basketball for their weight class. UNM buried Bob Davie's career. It's been nearly 20 years of Wulffian level football at that place with only a two year respite before the wheels fell off on Davie. Since 2008, the Lobos have gone 47-141 outside of the two decent seasons in 2015-16. Even with their "best" two seasons included, they are 63-151 since 2008. WSU, even with the dark Wulff years included, has gone 92-114 in the same timeframe against much more difficult competition. To hell with UNM.

Picking Texas State is a joke and only time will tell if it was as big of a mistake as it looks, but taking either UTEP or UNM would have been worse. Bringing in crap teams that the MWC defectors have abandoned would have been repeating past mistakes. The only upside to UNM is that I could drive there to watch games if I was so inclined. There is absolutely no upside to UTEP.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Texas State is a huge letdown and I would have rather have gotten UNLV without a doubt.

Picking Texas State is a joke and only time will tell if it was as big of a mistake as it looks, .

Spot on.

 

[CougSinceBirth]

Spot on.

Time has told....TXST was a mistake.

 

[PeteTheChop]

WSU should quit pretending on athletics, double down on academics, and build their identity in that route.

How would that work, a transition to a "Public Ivy" like a Michigan, Virginia, Berkeley, UCLA or Miami, O?

Even those schools play D1 sports.

Not saying it couldn't work, just don't remember a major university pivoting to that degree

 

[95coug]

How would that work, a transition to a "Public Ivy" like a Michigan, Virginia, Berkeley, UCLA or Miami, O?

Even those schools play D1 sports.

Not saying it couldn't work, just don't remember a major university pivoting to that degree

Maybe we just need playboy to do a ranking that shows us as an academic powerhouse.