Update: Jim Shaw eliminated as next HC....

[CougSinceBirth]

Salaries are negotiable. And if the disintegration of the pac 12 is any indication, university presidents are horrible negotiators.

Whoever they are hiring better be able to bring an entire squad with him. This was tone deaf to the current players.

All of the candidates currently in play aren't going to have enough impact players to make a difference.

The candidates I'm aware of:
Shaw
Riley
Conroy
Logie
Henderson (?)

Outside of going with Shaw, Henderson has the best resume on that list. Logie is similar to shaw with great experience at a much smaller school. Riley? Better hope he isn't the Paul Wulff of basketball at WSU. The AD decided to be cheap. They were willing to pay Smith, but now they aren't willing to pay to get the right candidate...?

The future feels relatively dim.

 

[Glad Cougar]

HOF-er plus he had a son that ended up ok.

Not that Shaw isn't a really good coach, but he hasn't been a D-1 head coach and I doubt he would give the dub students the bird either.

Shaw wouldn't give UW students the bird perhaps because he was a Husky assistant coach for awhile.

Glad Cougar

 

[Loyal Coug1]

He actually does now.

When he hires Shaw and takes our transfers.

Which he probably wouldn’t have done to any degree if Shaw had been hired.

Good points. To birth's post, Anne McCoy was hired as the CFO/Finance whatever 20 years ago. She's an accountant. Nice gal, nothing against her. But is she calling the shots on the search? If so, major F-up. Schulz sucks. Right up there with V. Lane Rawlins.

 

[Glad Cougar]

All of the candidates currently in play aren't going to have enough impact players to make a difference.

The candidates I'm aware of:
Shaw
Riley
Conroy
Logie
Henderson (?)

Outside of going with Shaw, Henderson has the best resume on that list. Logie is similar to shaw with great experience at a much smaller school. Riley? Better hope he isn't the Paul Wulff of basketball at WSU. The AD decided to be cheap. They were willing to pay Smith, but now they aren't willing to pay to get the right candidate...?

The future feels relatively dim.

I didn't realize Henderson was on the list. I live in Jackrabbit Country and haven't heard anything back here about him as a candidate. Henderson was on my personal wish list the minute Smith left. I hope he really is getting some consideration although staying at South Dakota State means he can most years play in the NCAA tournament. He's a disciple of Otzelberger at Iowa State and a good coach. I'll dig around back here and see if anyone knows anything about Henderson & WSU.

Glad Cougar

 

[SaveFerris]

Shaw wouldn't give UW students the bird perhaps because he was a Husky assistant coach for awhile.

Glad Cougar

That's where I was going in a facetious sort of way. I appreciate Shaw's time as an assistant, but hoping we can shoot a bit higher. I did like it when Dick did what he did though. Not "classy" like our classless neighbors to the west like to think they are collectively.

Much worse, we apparently interviewed Will Conroy. No head coaching experience and he's always going to be a mutt.

 

[CougSinceBirth]

I didn't realize Henderson was on the list. I live in Jackrabbit Country and haven't heard anything back here about him as a candidate. Henderson was on my personal wish list the minute Smith left. I hope he really is getting some consideration although staying at South Dakota State means he can most years play in the NCAA tournament. He's a disciple of Otzelberger at Iowa State and a good coach. I'll dig around back here and see if anyone knows anything about Henderson & WSU.

Glad Cougar

I'd read on Brand X that he's a rumored name. Of all the candidates, that's the one I would be most excited for. I guess Logie would be next, but it's not like I'm jumping for joy.

Hoping there's truth to the rumor and you find out some good news on your end!

 

[Observer11]

That's where I was going in a facetious sort of way. I appreciate Shaw's time as an assistant, but hoping we can shoot a bit higher. I did like it when Dick did what he did though. Not "classy" like our classless neighbors to the west like to think they are collectively.

Much worse, we apparently interviewed Will Conroy. No head coaching experience and he's always going to be a mutt.

If WSU hires Will Conroy over Jim Shaw, the entire administration should light themselves on fire.

 

[CougSinceBirth]

Good points. To birth's post, Anne McCoy was hired as the CFO/Finance whatever 20 years ago. She's an accountant. Nice gal, nothing against her. But is she calling the shots on the search? If so, major F-up. Schulz sucks. Right up there with V. Lane Rawlins.

JJ would let Anne McCoy continue to be the head CFO/Finance person, and JJ could focus on righting the ship.

Frankly, I'm not sure who's leading who in the AD. It's pretty much a "Where's Waldo?" vibe. Schulz should be grabbing the bull by the horns and leading the entire thing with his current team.

 

[CougSinceBirth]

If WSU hires Will Conroy over Jim Shaw, the entire administration should light themselves on fire.

I have about as much of a chance as Will Conroy to be the WSU head men's basketball coach.

 

[SaveFerris]

I have about as much of a chance as Will Conroy to be the WSU head men's basketball coach.

Did you interview? I'm wondering who the favor was for because I totally agree with your point. I wouldn't even want him on the staff.

 

[CougSinceBirth]

Did you interview? I'm wondering who the favor was for because I totally agree with your point. I wouldn't even want him on the staff.

You know it. With my experience in coaching a handful of youth basketball games as a volunteer as well as some rec ball, my agent worked out an interview.

Conroy was the "we tried to get someone from the Seattle area" interview.

 

[jourdand]

Why do people think players would stay if Shaw was hired or for that matter if Smith had stayed? Did Bamba stay did DJ stay did Queye, Efe, Powell, Roberts, Kunz stay? It has always been hard for Smith to keep players that has been one of his weak points. Luckily it has always been a strength to rebuild the next year.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Why do people think players would stay if Shaw was hired or for that matter if Smith had stayed? Did Bamba stay did DJ stay did Queye, Efe, Powell, Roberts, Kunz stay? It has always been hard for Smith to keep players that has been one of his weak points. Luckily it has always been a strength to rebuild the next year.

Why do you think they wouldn't stay? I don't see that losing previous players leaving was on Smith. And they, for the most part, didn't get greener grass.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Won't be Shaw:

View embedded media

wtf...

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

I'd take him with all his D-1 asst experience over a 35-year-old EWU coach. Particularly telling is Kyle Smith's disappointment over the non-hire.

Hold the f on...

The alternative is Paul Wulff redux except for basketball?

Gtfo here with that, who the f is making these decisions?

 

[jourdand]

Why do you think they wouldn't stay? I don't see that losing previous players leaving was on Smith. And they, for the most part, didn't get greener grass.

They might have left they might have stayed no way to know, just don’t assume they would have stayed. Other players leaving is as much a part of the environment of college basketball as anything else. Retention is now as important as recruiting. The grass being greener for other players is not relevant they made their decisions. Last years team would have been different if everyone from the previous team stuck around. It’s unfortunate that the state of the game is such that players can move on at will.

 

[mikalalas]

I mean, Smith could have stayed then Shaw would still be here and he wouldn’t be so heartbroken 🤷. This is a weird comment. You left dude you don’t get to decide what happens with our bball program after you leave.

He isn't, wasn't dictating, deciding who replaced him, what happens.

He basically was saying, without technically saying it, that the WSU leadership were IDIOTS for not hiring Shaw.


That's not trying to control what happen.

That's sharing his OPINION.

A EXTREMELY CREDIBLE OPINION, SO CREDIBLE, THAT ITS LOGICAL, REASONABLE, ALMOST FACTUAL.

 

[mikalalas]

They might have left they might have stayed no way to know, just don’t assume they would have stayed. Other players leaving is as much a part of the environment of college basketball as anything else. Retention is now as important as recruiting. The grass being greener for other players is not relevant they made their decisions. Last years team would have been different if everyone from the previous team stuck around. It’s unfortunate that the state of the game is such that players can move on at will.

They still might have left, but it's about having the better, best possible chance that they stay.

If Shaw was made HC, there would be a BETTER chance, that the players stayed.

Also the players went on record as saying, that one of the reasons why they left, was, is because Shaw was not made HC.

Shaw is who the players wanted as HC, which suggest, that they were, might be invested in staying, if he was made HC.

Now a piece of crap assistant coach shouldn't be hired to retain players.

And if the players want a piece of crap assistant coach made HC, then you do not listen to them.

But Shaw was not a piece of crap assistant coach. He was, is a quality HC candidate. Yes he is old, but like others said Dick Bennet was as old as Shaw.

At the very least, could have semi permanently, semi temporarily hired Shaw as a caretaker HC, for 2,3 years to try to retain players, be a decent HC, continue the likely to be successful in WCC, etc, for 2,3 years, until PAC rebuilt, etc, and then have him turn the program over to another HC candidate, that spend 2, 3 years finding, getting, vetting, etc.

That's what the PLAYERS, KYLE SMITH, DONALD WATTS, NBA PROS, EXTREMELY CREDIBLE PEOPLE THOUGHT SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE, etc.

 

[jourdand]

They still might have left, but it's about having the better, best possible chance that they stay.

If Shaw was made HC, there would be a BETTER chance, that the players stayed.

Also the players went on record as saying, that one of the reasons why they left, was, is because Shaw was not made HC.

Shaw is who the players wanted as HC, which suggest, that they were, might be invested in staying, if he was made HC.

Now a piece of crap assistant coach shouldn't be hired to retain players.

And if the players want a piece of crap assistant coach made HC, then you do not listen to them.

But Shaw was not a piece of crap assistant coach. He was, is a quality HC candidate. Yes he is old, but like others said Dick Bennet was as old as Shaw.

At the very least, could have semi permanently, semi temporarily hired Shaw as a caretaker HC, for 2,3 years to try to retain players, be a decent HC, continue the likely to be successful in WCC, etc, for 2,3 years, until PAC rebuilt, etc, and then have him turn the program over to another HC candidate, that spend 2, 3 years finding, getting, vetting, etc.

That's what the PLAYERS, KYLE SMITH, DONALD WATTS, NBA PROS, EXTREMELY CREDIBLE PEOPLE THOUGHT SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE, etc.

I’m all for giving Coach Shaw the job if he’s the best candidate but not in some misguided attempt to retain players who can now leave anytime the wind changes direction.

Also huge difference in resume between an older Dick Bennett and Jim Shaw, plus Dick brought Tony with him.

I thought it might have been a good idea to try Shaw /Riley combo. With Shaw as the head coach and Riley as associate head coach/ coach in waiting. Mainly because I think Riley is a good coach but needs to get his feet wet a little more.

Oh why do we really care what Donald Watts thinks?

 

[longtimecoug]

I'd take him with all his D-1 asst experience over a 35-year-old EWU coach. Particularly telling is Kyle Smith's disappointment over the non-hire.

raveling recomended len stevens

 

[mikalalas]

raveling recomended len stevens

Raveling, despite his great success at WSU, was still a relatively YOUNG coach, that did NOT have a lot of EXPERIENCE evaluating assistant coaching talent.

Smith has a extremely credible HISTORY of evaluating AWESOME assistant coaches, recruiters, coaches that are extremely qualified, etc.

Examples:

Shaw, Phelps, Andrezejek.

So I would have said no to Len Steven's, and not because of hindsight, but because Raveling being a YOUNG, albeit successful head coach at WSU.

I would have no problem with Shaw, Phelps, Andrezejek, being HC, because Smith is older, more experienced, and a better evaluator of coaching talent, then Raveling was.

 

[Glad Cougar]

That's where I was going in a facetious sort of way. I appreciate Shaw's time as an assistant, but hoping we can shoot a bit higher. I did like it when Dick did what he did though. Not "classy" like our classless neighbors to the west like to think they are collectively.

Much worse, we apparently interviewed Will Conroy. No head coaching experience and he's always going to be a mutt.

Not only is he a 100% mutt without HC experience, he was an assistant on a failed staff whose leader got fired for underachieving nearly every year. Given the recent move of turncoat Chun from crimson to purple, I'd rather not consider anyone with UW ties at this time. I guess that now includes Jim Shaw, who was also a Romar assistant at Montlake. That would also rule out a return of Ken Bone, too, (I joke.)

Glad Cougar

 

[mikalalas]

raveling recomended len stevens

Just because Raveling recommending Len Stevens went wrong DOES NOT MEAN THAT ALL FUTURE HC recommendations on who to replace them as HC, will also go wrong.

 

[Glad Cougar]

Raveling, despite his great success at WSU, was still a relatively YOUNG coach, that did NOT have a lot of EXPERIENCE evaluating assistant coaching talent.

Smith has a extremely credible HISTORY of evaluating AWESOME assistant coaches, recruiters, coaches that are extremely qualified, etc.

Examples:

Shaw, Phelps, Andrezejek.

So I would have said no to Len Steven's, and not because of hindsight, but because Raveling being a YOUNG, albeit successful head coach at WSU.

I would have no problem with Shaw, Phelps, Andrezejek, being HC, because Smith is older, more experienced, and a better evaluator of coaching talent, then Raveling was.

Raveling was 46 years old and had 11 years head coaching experience at WSU at the time he recommended Stevens. George did not make a good recommendation but I don't think it was because he was young and without experience or didn't have credibility.

Eddie Sutton, who won more than 800 games and is in the College Basketball Hall of Fame, recommended one of his assistant coaches for the WSU job after Kevin Eastman was fired. His recommendation? Paul Graham.

There is no correlation between head coaching experience and the ability to make a bad recommendation. Even highly successful and experienced coaches try to promote their assistants and help them get a HC position. And just for the record, I think Shaw is a much better recommendation than Stevens & Graham were, no doubt.

Glad Cougar

 

[CougEd]

Did you interview? I'm wondering who the favor was for because I totally agree with your point. I wouldn't even want him on the staff.

Donald and Isaiah Watts

 

[CougEd]

Why do you think they wouldn't stay? I don't see that losing previous players leaving was on Smith. And they, for the most part, didn't get greener grass.

The moment Rice entered the portal made Shaw less enticing because he was the straw that stirred the drink.

It was clear players were going to bolt whether Shaw was hired or not . We wwre starting over anyway .

 

[SaveFerris]

Donald and Isaiah Watts

Definitely want Isaiah Watts to stick, but Will Conroy is not the aswer.

From what's out there, SDSU HC Eric Henderson seems like the current frontrunner. The Jackrabbit's have had a consistently good program.

 

[mikalalas]

Definitely want Isaiah Watts to stick, but Will Conroy is not the aswer.

From what's out there, SDSU HC Eric Henderson seems like the current frontrunner. The Jackrabbit's have had a consistently good program.

IF IF IF IF WSU gets SDSU coach Eric Henderson(Don't see why he would leave SDSU and goto WSU), then getting a Eric Henderson, is the ONLY 1% of the time EXCEPTION, to not hiring Shaw.

IF IF IF IF IF your not going to hire Shaw, then you better damn well be hiring a Eric Henderson, a Coach K, etc, and you better damn have that coach be successful real quick at WSU.

IF IF IF IF you don't hire Shaw, and Instead you make a Paul Wulf, Len Stevens, Graham hire, and then on top of that only win 3 to 6 to 9 to 12, etc games, YOU SHOULD BE FIRED, because you could have made the SAFE, GOOD, etc, hire, by hiring Shaw.

 

[jourdand]

IF IF IF IF WSU gets SDSU coach Eric Henderson(Don't see why he would leave SDSU and goto WSU), then getting a Eric Henderson, is the ONLY 1% of the time EXCEPTION, to not hiring Shaw.

IF IF IF IF IF your not going to hire Shaw, then you better damn well be hiring a Eric Henderson, a Coach K, etc, and you better damn have that coach be successful real quick at WSU.

IF IF IF IF you don't hire Shaw, and Instead you make a Paul Wulf, Len Stevens, Graham hire, and then on top of that only win 3 to 6 to 9 to 12, etc games, YOU SHOULD BE FIRED, because you could have made the SAFE, GOOD, etc, hire, by hiring Shaw.

Four times the money would seem to be a pretty good reason.

 

[triscuit one]

I wouldn't have hated hiring Shaw, but wouldn't have loved it either even though i think he was the brains/player developer behind Smith. Glad they are interviewing a number of candidates and choosing who they think is the best available. Chances are were going to loose players even Smith stayed, much less Shaw.

 

[mikalalas]

Four times the money would seem to be a pretty good reason.

I thought I saw in another post in this thread, that he was getting 2.3 mil per year.

Is that his base? If so WSU can't afford 4 times that(8 mil base)

 

[jourdand]

2021 Total Pay figures take into account pay reductions that were due to financial issues caused by the COVID-19 pandemic. 2022 figures do not.

Year	School	Position	Total Pay	School Pay	Other Pay	Maximum Bonus	Bonuses Paid (2022-23)	School Buyout as of 4/1/2024
2023	South Dakota State	Head	$300,000	$300,000	$0	$490,000	$45,000	$275,000
2022

So $300,000 plus bonuses. I’m thinking he would be at around 1.2 million plus a similar bonus package at WSU

 

[kougkurt]

I thought I saw in another post in this thread, that he was getting 2.3 mil per year.

Is that his base? If so WSU can't afford 4 times that(8 mil base)

Wrong SDSU Mik. Sometimes I get confused too.

 

[Observer11]

Article in the Spokesman today from interviewing Shaw. Obviously he is disappointed given his credentials and fingerprints on the program.

 

[Observer11]

JJ would let Anne McCoy continue to be the head CFO/Finance person, and JJ could focus on righting the ship.

Frankly, I'm not sure who's leading who in the AD. It's pretty much a "Where's Waldo?" vibe. Schulz should be grabbing the bull by the horns and leading the entire thing with his current team.

Based on turning down Shaw, it’s apparent WSU isn’t interested in a 60 year old white male with credibility at the school.

Look for the cheapest hire for both bball and AD (if they even hire a permanent AD). Wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest if they took the interim title off and begin the downsizing of the department.

 

[chugspig]

Based on turning down Shaw, it’s apparent WSU isn’t interested in a 60 year old white male with credibility at the school.

Look for the cheapest hire for both bball and AD (if they even hire a permanent AD). Wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest if they took the interim title off and begin the downsizing of the department.

More like not interested in a 60 year old who has noted health issues, who will take on the most challenging and stressful job of his life. Recruiting outside and inside guys every year, roster turnover, NIL. He can be the greatest assistant on earth, it’s still not the responsibility of running a program headed into serious challenges.

 

[Glad Cougar]

Based on turning down Shaw, it’s apparent WSU isn’t interested in a 60 year old white male with credibility at the school.

Look for the cheapest hire for both bball and AD (if they even hire a permanent AD). Wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest if they took the interim title off and begin the downsizing of the department.

I don't know if wanting to go cheap had a lot to do with the Shaw decision. I doubt he would command a high salary. The other thing that always hung around in the back of my head was the fear that he would be another Bill Doba or Jimmy Anderson of OSU– great, longtime assistants who ultimately had limited success as a head coach. I'll concede that Shaw was a highly successful D-2 coach, but it still was a concern of mine. Finally, nine years as a Husky assistant gives me the Ken Bone vibe, and if there ever was a time in which I don't want a connection with UW (thanks to Chun), right now is it.

I reserve the opportunity to be more disappointed in not hiring Shaw based on who they ultimately hire. Hopefully, it's someone younger, dynamic, and successful as a D-1 head coach. Henderson seems to fit that description.

Glad Cougar

 

[moxeecoug]

I would have been good with Shaw being picked for the job but it’s like what others said, it would have been the safe pick. I really like the thought of going after a young coach like Henderson who has had success and can grow with the program. Besides Henderson the Cougs are looking at three other coaches who meet that category and I would be fine with any of them.

 

[Coug90]

Based on turning down Shaw, it’s apparent WSU isn’t interested in a 60 year old white male with credibility at the school.

Look for the cheapest hire for both bball and AD (if they even hire a permanent AD). Wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest if they took the interim title off and begin the downsizing of the department.

Have you taken a look at college basketball benches? They are damn near all 60 year old white males…which I’ve always found kinda funny considering it’s a sport dominated by young black men.

 

[UberCougars]

What is the average salary of the other WCC coaches?

Anyone know?